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Thread: 2013 Spitfire

  1. #1801
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    I scored a sweet deal on a Mattoc Expert, so mine should be here in just about a week and a half or so. I swapped my CCDB Air CS for an Avalanche tuned Fox CTD, so I was looking for a more tunable fork than my XFusion Sweep. Funny, the XFusion Slant on my hardtail has been awesome, but my Sweep was much harsher, and a full rebuild still didn't have it running the way I want to. All of the published reviews on the Mattoc seemed really positive, but I'm curious how people have found the actual performance. I'm also thinking about dropping it to 150mm, so I'm looking for opinions on fork length too.
    2014 Banshee Spitfire 650b
    2011-ish Chromag Samurai

  2. #1802
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    Anyone fitted new monarch plus RC3 debonair on spitfire? Which tune would go with spitfire, mid?

  3. #1803
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    Spitfire 2014 build

    2013 Spitfire-thimg8621.jpg
    Me: 6' 1.5"

    Frame: Spitfire 2014 L w/ CDDB Air CS
    Fork: Fox Float 27,5 160mm (555mm A-C)
    Wheels: Crossmax SX 2012, 26"
    Bars: Easton Havoc Carbon 750 mm
    Stem: Truvativ T20 60mm

    Drivetrain:
    Blackspire Mono Veloce WP 30t
    XT RD modified w/ OneUp RAD Cage
    XT cassette w/ OneUp 40t and 16t cogs

    So far perfect.

  4. #1804
    sui
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    " width="549">

    My go

    Me 6' nothing

    Large Spitty
    Pike RTC3 27.5 150mm
    CC DBAir CS (EV)
    Saint Stoppers
    SLX cranks
    MPR Chain guide
    Middleburn N/W hardcoate 34T Ring
    1 x 10 with 42T OneUp
    Saint Shifter
    XT shadow clutch mech
    Mavic 719's on Hope PRO II's
    Reverb Stealth
    Renthal Fatbar Lite, on Renthal Duo Stem

    Tis sweet. Picture was taken a few hours before hitting POrts Du Soliel area for a long weekend!

  5. #1805
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    nice builds. Id also be interested to see how the Mattoc compares to the Pike in its 27.5 guise; its had really good reviews. And also how it mates up with CC DBair. If its a negligible performance difference then what about service intervals etc? I spose the likes of TF tuned and Jtech are comfortable with the mattock?

  6. #1806
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    Most of the reviews that I have come across say that the Mattoc chassis may not be quite as stiff as the Pike (there is some debate there), but that the damping is superior. Manitou used essentially the same damping technology and air spring that they developed for the Dorado, and the Dorado has received incredible reviews. But again, I am reserving full judgement until I receive the fork and actually get to take it for a spin.

    I abandoned my CCDB Air, but the added tunability of the Mattoc should make it reasonably easy to match up to any given shock.
    2014 Banshee Spitfire 650b
    2011-ish Chromag Samurai

  7. #1807
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    Just got word that my Inline shipped out today. Will be able to get a ride on the bike Monday

  8. #1808
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    I just built up my Spitfire and will be taking it out tomorrow on its first real ride, pretty excited to see how she does. I will be in the market for a new fork , right now I am using my carbon lefty from my last bike but I don't think it is going to be a good match for the Spitfire due to travel and A2C but we will see . So two questions if people are still watching this thread, fork choices and for those running the CCDB CS. I am looking into a RS Pike but the cost is pretty steep then there is the X Fusion Vengeance and Marzocchi 350 RC. I have always had good luck with marzocchi and not so good luck with rock shox, how ever , the reviews from riders on the Pike all seem to love them. I have never ridden the X fusion products.....Any thoughts on these three forks from people who have owned them?
    Second , people running the CCDB, just out of curiosity what are your adjustments for your shock? Rider weight, air pressure , how many clicks and turns are you running? I am always interested in how people set their suspension up for their riding styles .

  9. #1809
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    Rockshox quality control can be hit or miss, as has been the case for some with the Pike, but if it were not for the high price I likely would have given the Pike a go instead of this Mattoc that I have on order. The XFusion Vengeance is supposed to be good, but rumor has it that it will be dropped from the XFusion lineup due to the presence of the newer Metric and Sweep. The Marzocchi was intriguing and the price was right, but there have not really been any legitimate ride reports yet.

    As for the CCDB, I ran 1.25 clicks of HSC, 2 HSR, 11 clicks LSC, 14 clicks LSR. I still was getting some spiking out of the rear shock over square edged hits, so if I were you I would drop HSC even more and add a volume spacer.
    2014 Banshee Spitfire 650b
    2011-ish Chromag Samurai

  10. #1810
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    Quote Originally Posted by sui View Post
    Large Spitty
    Pike RTC3 27.5 150mm
    CC DBAir CS (EV)
    Saint Stoppers
    SLX cranks
    MPR Chain guide
    Middleburn N/W hardcoate 34T Ring
    1 x 10 with 42T OneUp
    Saint Shifter
    XT shadow clutch mech
    Mavic 719's on Hope PRO II's
    Reverb Stealth
    Renthal Fatbar Lite, on Renthal Duo Stem
    Did you have any issue with the set-up with the 42T OneUp ring? I tried to get mine to work the other day on my Banshee Spitfire, but when I was trying to tune the derailleur I had issues with the derailleur arm clipping the 42T ring when I was upshifting? I wasn't sure if this was a set-up error on my part, or there was an issue with the derailleur hanger on the frame? I had to go back to 11-36T for the time being...

  11. #1811
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    Quote Originally Posted by babyz View Post
    Rockshox quality control can be hit or miss, as has been the case for some with the Pike, but if it were not for the high price I likely would have given the Pike a go instead of this Mattoc that I have on order. The XFusion Vengeance is supposed to be good, but rumor has it that it will be dropped from the XFusion lineup due to the presence of the newer Metric and Sweep. The Marzocchi was intriguing and the price was right, but there have not really been any legitimate ride reports yet.

    As for the CCDB, I ran 1.25 clicks of HSC, 2 HSR, 11 clicks LSC, 14 clicks LSR. I still was getting some spiking out of the rear shock over square edged hits, so if I were you I would drop HSC even more and add a volume spacer.
    When do you do expect your Mattoc in? I also looked at that as an option, I will be interested in a report of what you think on the fork. Our settings for the CCDB are pretty close, I am running 135psi with 1 1/2 HSC, 1 1/2 HSR, 9 clicks LSC and 14 LSR. Did you drop a volume spacer in yours? If so, What did you notice with your air pressure did it remain the same?

  12. #1812
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    Quote Originally Posted by radnark View Post
    Did you have any issue with the set-up with the 42T OneUp ring? I tried to get mine to work the other day on my Banshee Spitfire, but when I was trying to tune the derailleur I had issues with the derailleur arm clipping the 42T ring when I was upshifting? I wasn't sure if this was a set-up error on my part, or there was an issue with the derailleur hanger on the frame? I had to go back to 11-36T for the time being...
    shimano derailler? if so read this

    Shimano rear derailleurs We have found that Shimano typically uses a shorter B screw then SRAM. With some setups it may be necessary to gain extra length to get the system shifting smoothly. If you find the B screw is not long enough, try removing the B-screw, removing the plastic washer that remains attached to the screw and reinstalling the screw without this washer. If you are still having trouble, remove the B screw and thread it into the derailleur from the opposite side.

    from this

    OneUp Components Canada - Instructions

    i just used a longer screw instead of flipping it around.

  13. #1813
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    Quote Originally Posted by qbert2000 View Post
    shimano derailler? if so read this

    Shimano rear derailleurs We have found that Shimano typically uses a shorter B screw then SRAM. With some setups it may be necessary to gain extra length to get the system shifting smoothly. If you find the B screw is not long enough, try removing the B-screw, removing the plastic washer that remains attached to the screw and reinstalling the screw without this washer. If you are still having trouble, remove the B screw and thread it into the derailleur from the opposite side.

    from this

    OneUp Components Canada - Instructions

    i just used a longer screw instead of flipping it around.
    Thanks for the response, I had assumed since I installed the rad cage as well that I wouldn't run into this issue, looks like I'll need to use a longer screw. Did you just find a longer screw from the hardware store? Do you know the screw size?

  14. #1814
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    Quote Originally Posted by radnark View Post
    Did you have any issue with the set-up with the 42T OneUp ring? I tried to get mine to work the other day on my Banshee Spitfire, but when I was trying to tune the derailleur I had issues with the derailleur arm clipping the 42T ring when I was upshifting? I wasn't sure if this was a set-up error on my part, or there was an issue with the derailleur hanger on the frame? I had to go back to 11-36T for the time being...
    I actually ran into this same issue, and I have the OneUp Rad Cage now installed. It doesn't seem to be an issue while on the bike, but in the stand it is a bit disconcerting...
    2014 Banshee Spitfire 650b
    2011-ish Chromag Samurai

  15. #1815
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    Quote Originally Posted by kimbo123 View Post
    When do you do expect your Mattoc in? I also looked at that as an option, I will be interested in a report of what you think on the fork. Our settings for the CCDB are pretty close, I am running 135psi with 1 1/2 HSC, 1 1/2 HSR, 9 clicks LSC and 14 LSR. Did you drop a volume spacer in yours? If so, What did you notice with your air pressure did it remain the same?
    Sadly, the awesome price I got on the Mattoc means I won't be receiving it for a couple of weeks...I will be posting a review when I have a chance to get a few rides in. From my perspective, being able to get a Mattoc Expert for $600 was much more appealing than a used Pike for $700. The only difference between the Expert and the Pro is the added weight from the extra oil needed for the non-cartridge rebound damper in the Expert.

    As for the CCDB, I did not drop a volume spacer in as I was already having issues with getting the shock to use all of its travel, but I didn't want to drop air pressure any more as I was already sitting at recommended sag. Dropping any more HSC wasn't really an option for me either as the bike didn't keep composure quite as well in the rough.
    2014 Banshee Spitfire 650b
    2011-ish Chromag Samurai

  16. #1816
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    I had plenty of threads on the B-screw left with the Rad cage installed. My rear cog is just 40t though, but there should be just a minor difference between the 42t and 40t. The Rad cage (and upper jockey) distance varies with tension of the cage. Wouldn't a bit shorter chain help (it would bring the upper jockey further from the 42t cog).

  17. #1817
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonik666 View Post
    I had plenty of threads on the B-screw left with the Rad cage installed. My rear cog is just 40t though, but there should be just a minor difference between the 42t and 40t. The Rad cage (and upper jockey) distance varies with tension of the cage. Wouldn't a bit shorter chain help (it would bring the upper jockey further from the 42t cog).
    good call - I looked into this last night, and that seems to be the reason that the bike has issues in the stand but not on the trail. As the bike sags while riding, the increased taughtness of the chain resolves the issue. I'm going to double check chain length tonight.
    2014 Banshee Spitfire 650b
    2011-ish Chromag Samurai

  18. #1818
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    I believe I'm around 27

  19. #1819
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    Some good looking builds here, how much are they weighing in at??

  20. #1820
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    Quote Originally Posted by babyz View Post
    Sadly, the awesome price I got on the Mattoc means I won't be receiving it for a couple of weeks...I will be posting a review when I have a chance to get a few rides in. From my perspective, being able to get a Mattoc Expert for $600 was much more appealing than a used Pike for $700. The only difference between the Expert and the Pro is the added weight from the extra oil needed for the non-cartridge rebound damper in the Expert.

    As for the CCDB, I did not drop avolume spacer in as I was already having issues with getting the shock to use all of its travel, but I didn't want to drop air pressure any more as I was already sitting at recommended sag. Dropping any more HSC wasn't really an option for me either as the bike didn't keep composure quite as well in the rough.
    That's a killer deal!! Yeah, I would wait also for that kind of price . Where did you get it if you don't mind me asking? I am looking into it now that you mentioned it, see how manitou used the same type of damping system as the dorado. Also I am talking to DVO about their Diamond, the might be a little too pricey for me.
    So on your set up, I to am having a little bit of the same issue of not Using all of the travel. How much do you weigh and what air pressure are you running?
    I'll see if I am computer liderate enough to post a picture of it.

  21. #1821
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    Quote Originally Posted by kimbo123 View Post
    That's a killer deal!! Yeah, I would wait also for that kind of price . Where did you get it if you don't mind me asking? I am looking into it now that you mentioned it, see how manitou used the same type of damping system as the dorado. Also I am talking to DVO about their Diamond, the might be a little too pricey for me.
    So on your set up, I to am having a little bit of the same issue of not Using all of the travel. How much do you weigh and what air pressure are you running?
    I'll see if I am computer liderate enough to post a picture of it.
    Slight change of plans...I was going to get the Manitou from a guy on PinkBike, but turns out there was an issue with his source and the fork was backordered until the end of August. Given that I'm heading to Whistler soon, I can't wait that long. That said, it is available from ChainReaction for $650.

    The DVO stuff is all insanely expensive - the Diamond is going to be in BOS Deville territory. Not sure why, but JensonUSA is selling the new Marzocchi 350 CR for $599...it was more expensive last week, but the moment I saw that price I jumped on it. The Marzocchi stuff over the last couple years has been getting exceptional reviews, and the fact that they're finally producing a 4.xx pound 650b fork had me immediately intrigued. I'm going to give it a go.
    2014 Banshee Spitfire 650b
    2011-ish Chromag Samurai

  22. #1822
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    Quote Originally Posted by kimbo123 View Post
    So on your set up, I to am having a little bit of the same issue of not Using all of the travel. How much do you weigh and what air pressure are you running?
    i weigh a bit over 175lbs kitted up and from memory i was running 155-ish PSI. desired sag is 15mm according to the setup guide, but i was running a little more to try and use the full travel.
    2014 Banshee Spitfire 650b
    2011-ish Chromag Samurai

  23. #1823
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    Quote Originally Posted by babyz View Post
    i weigh a bit over 175lbs kitted up and from memory i was running 155-ish PSI. desired sag is 15mm according to the setup guide, but i was running a little more to try and use the full travel.
    Yes, I am a big Marzocchi fan, if I don't find something by September/October the 350 NCR Ti should be out, and I will wait for that. Definitely let me know how you like the 350 and how it does at Whistler!
    We are about the same weight so it makes it easy to see why we have the same issue on full travel .

  24. #1824
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    My build

    2013 Spitfire-image.jpg2013 Spitfire-image.jpg2013 Spitfire-image.jpg

    My Spitfire, just got it built up a few days ago. Probably not the best fork for this frame, but it's all I got at the moment, working on trying to get a new fork.

  25. #1825
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    Quote Originally Posted by kimbo123 View Post
    Yes, I am a big Marzocchi fan, if I don't find something by September/October the 350 NCR Ti should be out, and I will wait for that. Definitely let me know how you like the 350 and how it does at Whistler!
    We are about the same weight so it makes it easy to see why we have the same issue on full travel .
    what is the supposed difference between the NCR Ti and CR? From what I can tell the NCR just gets the nickel stanchions and a lockout switch
    2014 Banshee Spitfire 650b
    2011-ish Chromag Samurai

  26. #1826
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    Quote Originally Posted by babyz View Post
    what is the supposed difference between the NCR Ti and CR? From what I can tell the NCR just gets the nickel stanchions and a lockout switch
    There will be two versions the 350 NCR (Air sprung) and 350 NCR Ti (Ti coil). Each of these will use a lock out as well as the NCR cartridge (which is the same system as in the 380 C2R2 DH fork, a fully adjustable shimmed compression and rebound set up.

  27. #1827
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    From what I understand from my conversation with Marzocchi, all I lose by going with the CR is the lockout function and option for a Ti coil. The CR damper is still supposedly fully shimmed (at least the compression circuits).
    2014 Banshee Spitfire 650b
    2011-ish Chromag Samurai

  28. #1828
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    Quote Originally Posted by babyz View Post
    From what I understand from my conversation with Marzocchi, all I lose by going with the CR is the lockout function and option for a Ti coil. The CR damper is still supposedly fully shimmed (at least the compression circuits).
    I am under the impression the NCR is its own cartridge, but I could have totally misunderstood what they explained to me about the three versions.

  29. #1829
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    Finally got my first ride in. Need to make a few adjustments but overall it went very well.

    -Large 2014 frame 650b dropouts
    -SRAM XX1 32T w/ Gripshift
    -Race Face Evolve 740mm 20mm rise
    -30mm Spank stem
    -Manitou Mattoc Expert 150mm
    -Cane Creek Inline
    -Shimano Zee brakes 180/160
    -Easton carbon seatpost w/ Sette seat
    -ZTR Crest rims, Hope Pro2 Evo hubs, Sapim spokes
    -Specialized 2.3 Butcher Control F, Purgatory Grid R

    2013 Spitfire-p5pb11258665.jpg
    2013 Spitfire-p5pb11258666.jpg

  30. #1830
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    Quote Originally Posted by Autocratic View Post
    Finally got my first ride in. Need to make a few adjustments but overall it went very well.

    -Large 2014 frame 650b dropouts
    -SRAM XX1 32T w/ Gripshift
    -Race Face Evolve 740mm 20mm rise
    -30mm Spank stem
    -Manitou Mattoc Expert 150mm
    -Cane Creek Inline
    -Shimano Zee brakes 180/160
    -Easton carbon seatpost w/ Sette seat
    -ZTR Crest rims, Hope Pro2 Evo hubs, Sapim spokes
    -Specialized 2.3 Butcher Control F, Purgatory Grid R

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Very nice! What's your thoughts on the Mattoc fork and how did it ride? With a 30mm stem, how tall are you ?

  31. #1831
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    Quote Originally Posted by kimbo123 View Post
    Very nice! What's your thoughts on the Mattoc fork and how did it ride? With a 30mm stem, how tall are you ?
    So far I like the fork. It's very plush and the adjustments make noticeable changes. I'm 5'10", however I wanted the short stem so I would sit further back in the cockpit without stretching my arms.

  32. #1832
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    Nice build, though odd choice going for Zee brakes on a build that seems to be quite lightweight focussed?

  33. #1833
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    Quote Originally Posted by supercow View Post
    Nice build, though odd choice going for Zee brakes on a build that seems to be quite lightweight focussed?
    I didn't want to worry about not ever having enough brake. Also, the Zee's really aren't much heavier than XTRs, and I found them cheaper than XTRs, with adapters.

  34. #1834
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    2013 Spitfire

    Planning to change for 650b wheels. What about 650b rear wheel in 26'' dropouts ? I have read somewhere that it should be possible. I will try to understand what would be the consequences, but maybe has somebody already done the job?

  35. #1835
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    I run Rock Razor 27.5" in my 26" drops. Tight fit, so some taping should be done...

  36. #1836
    sui
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    Quote Originally Posted by radnark View Post
    Did you have any issue with the set-up with the 42T OneUp ring? I tried to get mine to work the other day on my Banshee Spitfire, but when I was trying to tune the derailleur I had issues with the derailleur arm clipping the 42T ring when I was upshifting? I wasn't sure if this was a set-up error on my part, or there was an issue with the derailleur hanger on the frame? I had to go back to 11-36T for the time being...
    I've had no issue at all with mine, though an admission of guilt that I asked the LBS to build it up, so they could've changed the screw??? The shifting runs smoother than any other setup I've had on other bikes, I couldn't say why mine works and others seem not to.

  37. #1837
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    Well, the Marzocchi 350 CR showed up yesterday...no pictures yet, but this thing is the real deal. Seems well built and the chassis is an absolute tank for only weighing a shade over 4 lbs...with the 35mm stanchions and massive arch, I have no doubts that it will be stiffer than the XFusion Sweep it replaced. No real trail time, but a few quick laps near my house showed that the fork is very smooth through its stroke even without being broken in, and it certainly doesn't have the notchy feel that my XFusion had. Tons of range on the rebound adjustment, though the LSC adjuster only has something like 6 clicks so we'll see how big of a difference each one makes. I'm excited to put it through its paces later this week, but overall, initial quality impressions are very high.
    2014 Banshee Spitfire 650b
    2011-ish Chromag Samurai

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    My 350CR doesn't just yet touch on the Devilles performance, but I suspect that it will with some loving and bedding in.

    The quality of the finish is quite a bit cheaper, but it is a lovely looking fork nonetheless.

    I have a tremendous amount of stiction in the very first bit of the travel and suspect the seals are bone dry.

    I want to add a bit more oil too as I feel the forks should be a tab bit more progressive

  39. #1839
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    Quote Originally Posted by supercow View Post
    My 350CR doesn't just yet touch on the Devilles performance, but I suspect that it will with some loving and bedding in.

    The quality of the finish is quite a bit cheaper, but it is a lovely looking fork nonetheless.

    I have a tremendous amount of stiction in the very first bit of the travel and suspect the seals are bone dry.

    I want to add a bit more oil too as I feel the forks should be a tab bit more progressive
    I haven't ridden the Deville, but given the $400+ price difference between the two forks, I didn't quite expect the same in terms of quality - the deville has a full CNC machined steerer and crown after all.

    Mine has virtually no stiction in the first bit of travel right without any real ride time, but we'll see how it holds up. I agree that it doesn't feel too progressive at the moment, so a dab of oil in the air chamber may not be a bad call.

    The one thing I'm not stoked on is the lack of information available from Marzocchi - nobody seems to have info on oil volumes, rebuild procedures, etc.
    2014 Banshee Spitfire 650b
    2011-ish Chromag Samurai

  40. #1840
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    Quote Originally Posted by Autocratic View Post
    So far I like the fork. It's very plush and the adjustments make noticeable changes. I'm 5'10", however I wanted the short stem so I would sit further back in the cockpit without stretching my arms.
    I debated over a large or medium , and doing the same thing you did if I had gone with the large by running a very short stem. But I didn't have the availability in my area to test a large so I didn't take the chance on the seat tube length and so I opted for the M. I am considering the Mattoc or the 350 marzocchi but irritated that they are not offering a 20mm thru axel, so I might look at a Fox since they are offering both 15mm or 20mm thru axels.

  41. #1841
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    The one thing I'm not stoked on is the lack of information available from Marzocchi - nobody seems to have info on oil volumes, rebuild procedures, etc.[/QUOTE]

    I am willing to bet that chassis of the 350 is the same as the 55 Rc3, if not very close to it. The should pull apart the same and use the same oil levels. Marzocchi customer service has always been very nice and helpful to me. I bet if you call them they will tell you over the phone how many CC's of oil is needed.

  42. #1842
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    I had this back from Marzocchi directly:

    Quote Originally Posted by Marzocchi

    Oil is Torko 7.5 Wt and aprox 24CC in each leg. for air pressure try running it closer to 70 PSI and running the compression adjuster 4 turns in.
    . I have had a handfull of the very first 350 CR forks feel a little sticky at the mid-upper end of the stroke and need extra lubrication at the seals. This is something that should be done at an authorized service center. It isn't difficult but that is what I am told. I do run a tad more oil than stock myself. Stock is only 20cc I run about 25-28 in the air and about 30 in the compression leg
    So now all I have to figure out, is how to open that badboy up

  43. #1843
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    Quote Originally Posted by sui View Post
    I've had no issue at all with mine, though an admission of guilt that I asked the LBS to build it up, so they could've changed the screw??? The shifting runs smoother than any other setup I've had on other bikes, I couldn't say why mine works and others seem not to.
    Oneupcomponents cage now fits Zee and does away with b screw adjustment.....

  44. #1844
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    Re: 2013 Spitfire

    Quote Originally Posted by kimbo123 View Post
    I debated over a large or medium , and doing the same thing you did if I had gone with the large by running a very short stem. But I didn't have the availability in my area to test a large so I didn't take the chance on the seat tube length and so I opted for the M. I am considering the Mattoc or the 350 marzocchi but irritated that they are not offering a 20mm thru axel, so I might look at a Fox since they are offering both 15mm or 20mm thru axels.
    Do you really need the 20 mm axle? The Mattoc 15mm QR is pretty stiff and super easy to remove and install.

  45. #1845
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    Perhaps it's an existing wheelset/hub issue.

  46. #1846
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    Most modern hubs can convert. I can't imagine that many (read: if anyone) can actually feel the stiffness difference between 15 and 20mm axles, all other things being equal in a blind test.

    I suspect negative feelings towards 15mm axles stem from riding flexy forks, with 15mm axles.

  47. #1847
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    Sv: 2013 Spitfire

    Quote Originally Posted by supercow View Post
    I suspect negative feelings towards 15mm axles stem from riding flexy forks, with 15mm axles.
    15mm Fox 32 is a noodle.
    15mm Pike and I cannot tell the difference from my previous Lyrik on the same config otherwise.,.

  48. #1848
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    Quote Originally Posted by supercow View Post
    So now all I have to figure out, is how to open that badboy up
    please do share if you take a stab at it - inaugural ride and I was pretty amazed at the performance of the fork, but after a few cycles it did feel a bit sticky in the initial 1/3 of the stroke. the fork is very sensitive to air pressure - i'm going to drop a few PSI but will then likely want to run a bit more oil in at least the air spring.
    2014 Banshee Spitfire 650b
    2011-ish Chromag Samurai

  49. #1849
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    2013 Spitfire

    I need you're help. I was planing to change fork and wheels in the next months, until I remarked yesterday that my complete drivetrain will soon fall apart. Totally crappy, plays in the rear der and cassette + chain + rings at the end of life...

    So I will certainly change for 1x10 with OneUp extension or to 1x11.

    But because I took the bike completely apart, I'm now asking you, should I put back the RS Sektor with special tune that I have or give a try to an old Fox 36 Float R ?



    What do you think ?

  50. #1850
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    Float!

  51. #1851
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    FLoat

  52. #1852
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    2013 Spitfire

    I'd like to, especially if there is a method to improve the compression damping (so that it'll not dive on steep terrain while braking) without sacrificing small bump compliance... Do you have any advice?

  53. #1853
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    2013 Spitfire

    Then I prefer to buy a new fork. Mine is old and the avalanche cartridge is a bit expensive. A little less than 500$ ?

  54. #1854
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    Change the suspension internals to Avalanche cartridge

  55. #1855
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    I have a Pushed 2010 float36 rc2, I can't justify a new fork when this works so good.
    I like to fart when I'm in front of you on a climb

  56. #1856
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    Hey guys, short question: 160mm Pike on the Spitfire with 650B: Yay or Nay?
    Anyone of you would say a 150mm fork would suit the Spitty better?
    Also: Coming from a Rune V2 in M (I'm 177, also riding a Legend in M) I'm looking into a Spitfire in L. However, I think the overall character as a trailbike says "M". Suggestions? On a sidenote, I'd plan to do some Enduro Races with the Spitty.

  57. #1857
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    The Spitfire is spec'ed at 150mm but Banshee says you can run 160mm max.

  58. #1858
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    I personally like the feel of the 160mm fork - I think Keith from Banshee runs his personal bike with a 160mm Pike.
    2014 Banshee Spitfire 650b
    2011-ish Chromag Samurai

  59. #1859
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    At 177 and you ride a M Legend?
    Do you like your bikes small, because the Spitfire M is far bigger fit than the Legend.


    I'm exactly 177 myself, and ride a M Spitty, but felt that even the large Legend is not really spacious.

    Anyway - deffo recommend a 160mm fork.

  60. #1860
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    My Mattoc is at 150mm currently but if I wanted to go back to 160mm what else would be recommended to change on the bike? How will the extra travel change the geometry?

  61. #1861
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    The A2C difference between 150 or 160 forks (in general) are negligible, sometimes being the same. It won;t affect the geometry in any significant way.
    Nothing else to change, why would you?

  62. #1862
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    Go for the 160mm Pike. It works very well.

  63. #1863
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindPatterns View Post
    Hey guys, short question: 160mm Pike on the Spitfire with 650B: Yay or Nay?
    Anyone of you would say a 150mm fork would suit the Spitty better?
    Also: Coming from a Rune V2 in M (I'm 177, also riding a Legend in M) I'm looking into a Spitfire in L. However, I think the overall character as a trailbike says "M". Suggestions? On a sidenote, I'd plan to do some Enduro Races with the Spitty.
    I'm 178cm and the large Spitfire I demoed felt pretty big! Also tried a medium Rune, which felt great, so have gone with the medium Spitfire.

    As for the fork, I've gone with a 150mm 650b Pike, because from what I remember the A2C is the same as what the geometry's based on, and I thought it'd be a bit more balanced with the 140mm rear. Like supercow says though, it's not really gonna make much of a difference either way.

  64. #1864
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    Well, going through the thread I've read that Keith recommends a 150mm fork when using 650B wheels, so that's something that keeps me thinking. Really don't want to mess up the geometry.

    @supercow I'm not living in an area where a long bike would pay out (more technical than fast tracks) but I'm willing to try something new, so I was wondering if the Spitfire would be the right choice to go with L and a 35mm stem.

    EDIT:
    And then I just found this: 2013 Spitfire - Page 72

  65. #1865
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    upload images

    It won't be long now! Yeah!

    Two questions.

    Is Chris King worth the price against Hope pro evo2?
    Comparing the hope to my mavic st, i think it is good except for the loud noise.
    Compared to an I9, which i had half a year of riding, the hope is a little lacking in the ingagement department.

    Question number two.
    For those running CC DB AIR XV and RS PIKE.
    What base tune for the RS PIKE would you recommend that will match well with the db air base tune.
    I understand that i will have to tinker with it for my riding preference. But i'm hoping for a good starting point.

    Thnxz.

  66. #1866
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    Quote Originally Posted by zuman View Post

    upload images

    It won't be long now! Yeah! B

    Two questions.

    Is Chris King worth the price against Hope pro evo2?
    Comparing the hope to my mavic st, i think it is good except for the loud noise.
    Compared to an I9, which i had half a year of riding, the hope is a little lacking in the ingagement department.

    Question number two.
    For those running CC DB AIR XV and RS PIKE.
    What base tune for the RS PIKE would you recommend that will match well with the db air base tune.
    I understand that i will have to tinker with it for my riding preference. But i'm hoping for a good starting point.

    Thnxz.
    I have king rear hope front on three of my bikes plus a few older hope rears the 24 Poe version. The newer 40poe from hope are great value for money and I love how easy and cheap it is to convert their front hubs. But kings ring drive is the best IMHO. 72 Poe and all engaged under power. Way stronger than any pawl setup. Easy to service and bulletproof.

    I think the king rear is worth the extra money.

  67. #1867
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    2013 Spitfire

    36 Float ready for try. I'm just waiting for new 10sp rear der, trigger cassette and chain. I took all XT except the chain (Sram with power lock), Slx wasn't available in medium cage.
    I decided to give a try at the 36 because of th a2c height. In comparison with the RS Sektor, this is 545 vs 528. I think this is why I experienced so much pedal strokes. If the test is positive, I surely buy a Manitou Mattoc.

  68. #1868
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    2013 Spitfire

    Looks gnarly....


  69. #1869
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    2013 Spitfire

    Ready to build. From SRAM x7-9-0 (2x9 from 2008) to 2x10 and maybe soon 1x10.


  70. #1870
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    Quote Originally Posted by zuman View Post

    Question number two.
    For those running CC DB AIR XV and RS PIKE.
    What base tune for the RS PIKE would you recommend that will match well with the db air base tune.
    I understand that i will have to tinker with it for my riding preference. But i'm hoping for a good starting point.

    Thnxz.
    I weigh about 195 and set up my pike with 2 bottomless tokens, 2-3 clicks of LSC in open position. I generally run about 20% sag. Rebound tends to depend on how much air pressure you're running, so set that to your taste. I really like how with the tokens I can run minimal LSC so the fork is plush off the top, but stays up in its travel REALLY well. I don't bottom unless I do something real dumb. Good luck!

  71. #1871
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    Thnxz NCBigHit,
    I'm 170 lbs geared. with your set up would you say that it is playful and easy to jump, or plush and "controlled"/stable on the down.
    my last bike was a Pivot 5.7 which was set up quite playful which i like for the local trails but it tends to be very unstable on steep and fast hits on several enduro races on none local trails.
    I'm hoping for a happy middle, with the Goldilocks tyres I'm wishing for a Goldilocks ride, hehehe

  72. #1872
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    I'd say I tend to run things a on the "controlled" side but not so far that it's dead. I do a bunch of jumping and berm smashing on the bike and it does great. I can still pick the bike up and over things in the trail. That said, 2 riding buddies that hop around a lot and boost every possible little natural booter run faster rebound than I do.

    For comparison, my CCDBa settings are 15mm sag, 2.5 HSC, 10 LSC, 2.5 HSR, 16 LSR. XV air can and no spacers. It is definitely a little more damped than the recommended base tune (15/2.0/10/2.0/14). I feel like I can push against the suspension more in corners and on jumps without using a bunch of travel. It also handles high speed chop really well.

    I think at least as far as your fork goes I think one can set it up so that it stays high in the travel and modulate "playfulness" mostly with the rebound. You might experiment with just one token since you're a bit lighter than me and it seems like heavier people like more tokens all other things being equal. The rear end pop is easiest to change around using HSR although there are a bunch of ways to accomplish your goals with a CCDB (take your time and be methodical).

    Hope this is helpful!

  73. #1873
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    hi, here's a pic at an enduro race in UK recently. It was me that held me back not the Spitty.

    I feel im struggling to get low enough in the attack position and im wandering if I should be lowering the front end a bit more. as you can see I run a stack of spacers under the stem (XL frame) due to the short headtube and to give a more comfortable pedalling position.

    im thinking I should lower the front end to improve the attack position what are other spitty owners experiences with their cockpit setup? Does a lower front end improve your attack position and do you get used to the body position it puts you in for climbing? PS don't 26 wheels look teeny nowadays?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 2013 Spitfire-img_38247641072885.jpeg  

    2013 Spitfire-img_20140621_205731.jpg  


  74. #1874
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    Spacers look fine to me. That said, I'm running a 10mm rise bar (Easton Havoc 35). Maybe get a bar with less rise? Also, the stem looks really long to me...

  75. #1875
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    Your front end doesn't strike me as particularly high at all. How tall are you out of interest?

    What do you mean by you're not getting low enough - looking at the pic you can bend down an awful lot more if you wanted to?

    Perhaps the front end is not high enough?

  76. #1876
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    yeah it might be just me - usually is. its a 50mm stem but must look long in that photo. Its a nukeproof warhead bar so its 20mm rise. Im 6 ft 2 1/2.

    I know I can get lower its just I feel that set up gives me that natural riding position and you're right - higher front end would probably have the desired effect. in that photo, its not steep but im well into my fork travel so I might have too much weight on the front which would mean more spacers or perhaps a higher rise bar. I run a stiff fork believe it or not.

    still can't believe how small 26 inch wheels look now

  77. #1877
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    Quote Originally Posted by fingerbanger View Post
    yeah it might be just me - usually is. its a 50mm stem but must look long in that photo. Its a nukeproof warhead bar so its 20mm rise. Im 6 ft 2 1/2.

    I know I can get lower its just I feel that set up gives me that natural riding position and you're right - higher front end would probably have the desired effect. in that photo, its not steep but im well into my fork travel so I might have too much weight on the front which would mean more spacers or perhaps a higher rise bar. I run a stiff fork believe it or not.

    still can't believe how small 26 inch wheels look now
    I run a similar setup to you - 20mm rise bar, 50mm stem - and I am roughly 6'1. I I had some setup issues with the bike initially as far as positioning when climbing, and after some slight saddle repositioning and a slightly higher stack of spacers (looks maybe a smidge lower than yours), the bike is perfect. I would say you try a higher rise bar, maybe 30-40mm rise, and go from there. It will sit you upright a bit more, which may make the front wander a bit while climbing, but looks like it will be a tad more comfortable for you while descending.
    2014 Banshee Spitfire 650b
    2011-ish Chromag Samurai

  78. #1878
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    Read: Ideal time to splash out on some Renthal Carbon 30mm fatbars

  79. #1879
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    I have the Renthal carbon 40mm rise bar on the way. Having a bad issue with my hands hurting. But fit guy says the riser should get be back and more upright and possibly a setback seatpost as well.

  80. #1880
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    Quote Originally Posted by supercow View Post
    Read: Ideal time to splash out on some Renthal Carbon 30mm fatbars

    ive just bought these bars! The only way I could justify buying renthal carbons is by kidding myself that im not spending 100 but actually reinvesting in British industry

    aside from that I'd have to have them delivered to work and then fit them when my girlfriend's not in the house so she doesn't suspect anything. Perhaps rough them up a bit so they look less new

    I think I can fit on one more 5mm spacer so I'll give that a try

  81. #1881
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    Does anyone know the actual top tube length on a Large spitfire? I know the banshee geo chart has the tt length at 24.2, but they also have the medium at 23.2 and it measures
    22 3/8" .

  82. #1882
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    Still love this bike, despite all teh standard carbon bling here in Colorado I look at my raw aluminum bike and it always makes me smile. I think I've only seen one other Banshee here in the last couple of years. Hopefully by next season I can upgrade the rear shock (Float CTD) and maybe go the Avalache route and get rid of a sticky boost valve, or Cane Creek, or Fox float x. Other than that this bike just rocks.

    2013 Spitfire-14903490945_b966c456e7_b.jpg

  83. #1883
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    Sv: 2013 Spitfire

    Quote Originally Posted by kimbo123 View Post
    Does anyone know the actual top tube length on a Large spitfire? I know the banshee geo chart has the tt length at 24.2, but they also have the medium at 23.2 and it measures
    22 3/8" .
    Who cares about top tube length. Stack/reach is your friend and a more accurate comparison

  84. #1884
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    Crank and fork questions

    For those of you running spittys with 650B wheels:

    Have you tried running 150mm travel up front versus 160mm - what difference did it make in handling, and which did you find to work better?

    Due to the low BB height, do 175mm cranks have pedal strike issues? Have you gone to 170mm? I usually run 175mm cranks, but I'm contemplating a 650B build (in size L) and wonder if I should go 170 or 175.

  85. #1885
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    Quote Originally Posted by zuuds View Post
    For those of you running spittys with 650B wheels:

    Have you tried running 150mm travel up front versus 160mm - what difference did it make in handling, and which did you find to work better?

    Due to the low BB height, do 175mm cranks have pedal strike issues? Have you gone to 170mm? I usually run 175mm cranks, but I'm contemplating a 650B build (in size L) and wonder if I should go 170 or 175.
    I can answer both of those questions. I'm running a 160mm Marzocchi 350 CR now and was previously running a 160mm XFusion Sweep. I personally like the feel of the 160mm quite a bit, especially given the low BB that you were referencing.

    As for cranks, I run 175mm as I have longer legs, and while I do hit the pedals every now and then (more than my old Nomad Carbon), it isn't any sort of a problem.
    2014 Banshee Spitfire 650b
    2011-ish Chromag Samurai

  86. #1886
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    The BB height doesn't change much from the slack to middle position, but would it be enough change that climbing over rocks would lessen the pedal strikes? I have carbon crank arms and I've already hit a few things. Nothing major but would like to make sure I don't blow out the insert in the arm.

  87. #1887
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    Quote Originally Posted by kimbo123 View Post
    Does anyone know the actual top tube length on a Large spitfire? I know the banshee geo chart has the tt length at 24.2, but they also have the medium at 23.2 and it measures
    22 3/8" .
    I just measured mine, and from center of head tube to center of seat tube, following the top tube, and it came out right at 23 3/8".
    14 Banshee Spitfire 27.5

    15 Transition TA29

  88. #1888
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    Quote Originally Posted by Autocratic View Post
    The BB height doesn't change much from the slack to middle position, but would it be enough change that climbing over rocks would lessen the pedal strikes? I have carbon crank arms and I've already hit a few things. Nothing major but would like to make sure I don't blow out the insert in the arm.
    Perhaps you should just get an SLX crank so that you actually dare to use your bike?

  89. #1889
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    I am on XX1 cranks, and they are protected with Race Face crank boots. They are very well despite pedal strikes on every ride. I went from 26" to 27.5" on 26" drops, and the added Bb height was welcome with fewer strikes. My speed was defininely higher, as well as feeling of in control. I am on a 160mm Pike..

  90. #1890
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    Re: 2013 Spitfire

    Quote Originally Posted by Dystopism View Post
    Perhaps you should just get an SLX crank so that you actually dare to use your bike?
    Troll elsewhere.

  91. #1891
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    Re: 2013 Spitfire

    Quote Originally Posted by hssp View Post
    I am on XX1 cranks, and they are protected with Race Face crank boots. They are very well despite pedal strikes on every ride. I went from 26" to 27.5" on 26" drops, and the added Bb height was welcome with fewer strikes. My speed was defininely higher, as well as feeling of in control. I am on a 160mm Pike..
    Where do you have the chips at?

  92. #1892
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    Sv: 2013 Spitfire

    Quote Originally Posted by Autocratic View Post
    Where do you have the chips at?
    Highest/steepest position. Although I have a -1 angleset..

  93. #1893
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    Re: 2013 Spitfire

    Quote Originally Posted by hssp View Post
    Highest/steepest position. Although I have a -1 angleset..
    So your dropout bolts are at the top of the chainstay?

  94. #1894
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    No, the dropouts bolts are at the bottom, making the BB higher

  95. #1895
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    Re: 2013 Spitfire

    Quote Originally Posted by hssp View Post
    No, the dropouts bolts are at the bottom, making the BB higher
    Got it. I'm thinking of moving the dropout to the middle position for a little more BB clearance , but I like the aggressive cockpit the slackest setting gives.

  96. #1896
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    Quote Originally Posted by Autocratic View Post
    Got it. I'm thinking of moving the dropout to the middle position for a little more BB clearance , but I like the aggressive cockpit the slackest setting gives.
    personally I like the handling of the bike best in the middle setting - if you ride anywhere with chunky climbs, my experience has been that the lowest setting drops the BB just a smidge too far, resulting in some solid pedal strikes. my experience is with the 650b setup.
    2014 Banshee Spitfire 650b
    2011-ish Chromag Samurai

  97. #1897
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    I've knocked my feet out of the pedals on a few things climbing but that's honestly been one short section of one of the trails I ride regularly.

  98. #1898
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    I have my Spitfire set up with 650b wheels, 650b dropouts in the middle position, a 150mm RS Revelation fork, and 175 mm SLX cranks. I am happy with the geometry for all around trail riding; I'm in PA so that means short and sometimes steep ups and downs, sometimes rocky, sometimes flowy. I don't think I have had any pedal strikes with the 650b wheels, but maybe had a few with 26" wheels. I actually haven't tried the steep or slack setting yet as I haven't felt the need.

  99. #1899
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    188
    I run my Spitfire permanently in slack, and have 165mm cranks.

  100. #1900
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    44
    How tall are you though?