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  1. #1
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    Caution;  Merge;  Workers Ahead! WTF, STOLEN: Intense Tracer 27.5 Alloy Medium Black, Custom Build

    The thieves are active right now in Ahwatukee, I guess. And no karma points for trying to help my friend recover his two stolen Pivot Mach 4's.

    My Intense Tracer was stolen out of my garage last night (Monday somewhere between 8-10:30 pm). Despite my best efforts to thief proof the garage (no opener in my truck, wire locked the safety release mechanism), the thieves climbed over to the back yard and kicked in an external door leading into the garage. The cops say they may have tailed me home from the trailhead recently. I live in the Ranch Circle neighborhood and rode from the Warpaint entrance yesterday, so keep an eye out if you ride from there. The thief was either alone, or they don't like Trek's because they left my Stache at the edge of the garage.

    At least I gave it a good, long last ride Sunday afternoon. Here it is pictured on it's final trip down National from Buena Vista:
    WTF, STOLEN: Intense Tracer 27.5 Alloy Medium Black, Custom Build-img_20180128_162321.jpg

    Here are the build details and pics. This is a custom build with easy to spot features being Specialized Black and Red Roval Carbon Wheelset and a Rogue Panda Downtube Bag (if they are dumb enough to leave it on there). I'd appreciate any help keeping an eye out for this.

    2015 Intense Tracer Medium Alloy 27.5 (T275A)
    Wheels: Specialized Roval Traverse SL 27.5 Carbon, Black with Red Decals
    Tires: Specialized Butcher F, Ground Control R (I think)
    Fork: Pike, Black and White
    Shock: Cane Creek DB Air IL
    Bars and Stem: Both Race Face Atlas (Distinct Contour Map Pattern)
    Dropper: Specialized Command Dropper
    Brakes: XT
    Crank: SRAM GX with Red Crankboots
    Drivetrain: 1x11 with SRAM GX Rear Der., MRP Chain Guide/Bash Guard
    Other: Black Rogue Panda Downtube Bag, WTB Rocket Race Seat

    WTF, STOLEN: Intense Tracer 27.5 Alloy Medium Black, Custom Build-img_20171121_140148.jpg
    WTF, STOLEN: Intense Tracer 27.5 Alloy Medium Black, Custom Build-img_20160714_204434586.jpg
    WTF, STOLEN: Intense Tracer 27.5 Alloy Medium Black, Custom Build-img_20160714_204520222.jpg
    WTF, STOLEN: Intense Tracer 27.5 Alloy Medium Black, Custom Build-img_20160714_204503275.jpg
    WTF, STOLEN: Intense Tracer 27.5 Alloy Medium Black, Custom Build-img_20160714_204508669.jpg

    RIP Tracer:-(

  2. #2
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    Condolences Man, sorry for the bummer news.

    I hold out hope the turd gets busted or at least the bike recovered. What $ value do you spec it at ? Just curious but it seems like thieves suffer harder consequences based on value of theft.
    Best of luck in recovery chances.

    ~ bach
    In the Middle Ages, the biggest mistake was not putting on your armor because you were 'just going down to the corner.'

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by bachman1961 View Post
    What $ value do you spec it at ?
    Thanks Bach. I put about $6K into it to build it and another couple hundred a few weeks ago to replace the blown-out original cc inline shock (DOH!). Not sure what the value would be considered now.

  4. #4
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    I feel for you man.. had one stolen years ago out of my garage. Now I have a security system but also lock them up to a five gallon bucket full of concrete to slow em down. My bikes are no where near as nice as yours was though... that effen sucks

  5. #5
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    That really really sucks. "Crimes of opportunity" have always been an issue in Ahwatukee. Home owners or renters insurance should cover 100%, even if you have to submit parts for a custom build. Had two stolen from my Tukee garage in 2015 and actually came out ahead since it cost more to rebuild a used custom DJ than I bought it for. Insurance co was totally fine with it, claim paid in 10 days.

  6. #6
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    lock 'em up even if they are inside.

  7. #7
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    They are indeed active in Ahwatukee at present. Seeing posts here, FB, and NextDoor related to recent bicycle theft.

    If you use Strava don't forget to review your privacy settings. Also don't use the brand/model name of your expensive ride. It may be a little paranoid of me but upon returning to my neighborhood from the trails I ride around a 1 1/2mi loop before returning home. If nothing else it's a decent cool down period =)

  8. #8
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    Yah don't start/stop strava till you are at least a block from home. Or just wait till the trailhead.

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    I don't have Strava for what it's worth, but good advice nonetheless.

  10. #10
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    Instagram too, a guy in socal posted a photo of his bikes in his garage and the post showed his location. Someone broke in and took them all.

    Sorry about the loss.

    This one is worth claiming on insurance if you have it. Just be aware if you have one more claim in a 5-year period you'll have trouble finding replacement insurance - if you have 3 claims it is unlikely any company will insure you. State Farm declined to renew my insurance after a second claim. I had asked them and was told claim #2 would not increase my rates. It didn't, but...

  11. #11
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    Here is the bike thief in action:

    WTF, STOLEN: Intense Tracer 27.5 Alloy Medium Black, Custom Build-channel2.2018.01.29.14.18.18.846_18.jpg
    WTF, STOLEN: Intense Tracer 27.5 Alloy Medium Black, Custom Build-channel2.2018.01.29.14.18.20.279_02.jpg

    Video:
    https://youtu.be/3WSoCSD2o6c

    My best attempt at a description. I got the height by measuring the letters on the shipping container.
    Height: ~5'7"
    Ethnicity: Black
    Eyes: Wears Glasses
    Hair: Short, Black
    Facial Hair: Light beard or Cleanshaven
    Clothing: Hooded Sweatshirt or Longsleeve shirt with tall collar, khaki pants, workboots
    Other: Smoker (Newport Cigarette Found at Scene)

  12. #12
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    You would think that with video tech the way it is these days you could get a clear image... Why do you store your bikes in a Mobile Mini?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillbo View Post
    You would think that with video tech the way it is these days you could get a clear image... Why do you store your bikes in a Mobile Mini?
    Would have been safer in the mobile mini:-( This is actually footage from my neighbors house. Looks like he was checking the scene first. Kind of lucky he decided to walk around a bit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BIGHORN LEW View Post
    Yah don't start/stop strava till you are at least a block from home. Or just wait till the trailhead.
    can't you zones or something where you set a radius around areas you don't want recorded or visible?

  15. #15
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    Yeah, they even suggest it automatically after you start a few rides from a house. You can set a "privacy zone" and it will only show the ride up to that point. I'm betting these guys just use the tried and true follow you home thing tho.
    Quote Originally Posted by literally View Post
    can't you zones or something where you set a radius around areas you don't want recorded or visible?
    Desert Sunset Calls/Upward, Pain, Perseverance/Welcome Solitude

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChampionSleeper View Post
    Thanks Bach. I put about $6K into it to build it and another couple hundred a few weeks ago to replace the blown-out original cc inline shock (DOH!). Not sure what the value would be considered now.
    Hopefully you have "full replacement value" homeowners insurance which means you get a new Tracer and not a "market value" payout that's = to a used Tracer.
    2018 Intense Tracer
    2017 Intense Primer
    2016 Santa Cruz 5010

  17. #17
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    5'7" black male with black hair and wearing a hoody.... Can I be the one to be called a racist by stating that is the description of the majority of thefts in the valley ?

  18. #18
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    Sorry for the loss. We should have a sticky for bike security as this happens all too often.

    Regarding garages:

    1) Any regular doors should have no access from the outside, should be made of reinforced steel, and should have no windows that permit access to opening the door. In addition to a deadbolt, mine has cross bars mounted just outside the hinges that have brackets secured with four 3-1/2" lag bolts each.

    2) It's not enough to just screw down windows so they can't be opened, would-be thieves should not be able to bust out panes and shimmy through. I bolted two aluminum u-channels over each pane, and installed two keyed sash locks in each window.

    3) If your garage door opener does not employee rolling codes, dump it, as the number of possible permutations can be transmitted in as little as 9 seconds, using a cheap wireless toy.

    4) The bar between the chain or bar screw shuttle and the door is not strong, and a door can lifted enough to permit sliding underneath it by applying enough force to bend this bar. An aluminum tube of sufficient diameter and thickness will resolve this in all but a brute force attack with jacks. Some mfg's also sell deadbolts that work with the garage door opener to secure the door when it closes.

    4) Install a jackshaft opener, they attach directly to the torsion bar, eliminating the track, chain or bar screw, and the link bar that can be defeated. I installed a Dayton-Walton iDrive that mounts on the torsion bar and has a leg that rotates down to the top of the garage door when after the door stops so the door cannot be forced up. Other brands can mount to excess torsion bar run past the pulley on either side, and incorporate some type of mechanism to lock the torsion bar when closed so the full weight of the door must be lifted to open it. I'd go with add-on deadbolts for that style, but I doubt their are any thieves that are want your bike enough to acquire the tools necessary to lift a 600-800Lb door.

    5) Lock the bike in the garage, even with all of the above. While hardened chains and what not are great, few thieves are going to bring a bolt cutter to steal a bike from a garage. They want to be light in case they have to bolt, and they know almost no one locks up their bikes inside their garage. I use a coated 3/8" cable bolted to a structural 2x4 behind the wall via a locked access panel, with a decent combo lock.
    I will suffer no butt-hurt fools!

  19. #19
    Meatbomb
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    My bike is always locked when in my garage. I have a cable that is lag bolted into the CMU wall and a heavy duty combo lock.

  20. #20
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    Thanks Taco, that's a lot of really useful info. Unfortunately, I'm in a rental house right now so I can't modify too heavily.

    I use a coated 3/8" cable bolted to a structural 2x4 behind the wall via a locked access panel, with a decent combo lock.
    I've have been thinking about lag bolting a cable to the wall. Anyone have pictures? How do you protect the lag bolt so that it can't be easily unscrewed? One bolt or multiple? How does the access panel mount and where did you get it?

  21. #21
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    Wow, crazy. And to think my boys have left my garage door open at least twice in the last year and nothing was stolen.
    Not my car with the keys in it, my motorcycle with key in it and at least 12k in bicycles. Oh, plus all the tools and supplies...

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  22. #22
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    J-Bone - My boy does the same. It's about the possibility of theft for me, although I'm more concerned about someone being on the property while the family is asleep.

    Even though I live in a decent enough neighborhood, there is a church parking lot across the street that gets too much after hours traffic. I get home between 3-5am, and call it in once or twice a week. Every few weeks an arrest is made, typically someone shooting/snorting/smoking. Twice last year they busted dealers.

    This is EVERYWHERE, even if you don't ever see it. With people all around me making bad decisions, I choose to avoid earning any regrets if I can avoid it by taking some meaningful yet simple steps to protect my property from those that believe what is mine should be theirs.

    ChampionSleeper - You can bend the end of the lag bolt over with a hammer, or drill a hole through it and lock it. Few are brazen enough to break out a hacksaw inside your house, but some will bring bolt cutters. It's not a fool-proof solution, but will deter the vast majority of bike thefts, which are crimes of opportunity.

    I made the panel myself when I rebuilt the garage walls.

    Depending upon the design of a home, one can often drill a hole through concrete blocks from the garage into the basement or crawl space. Mine has a crawl space and the access is at the other end of the house, and I didn't feel like crawling so I tied to the structural 2x4's when I refinished the garage.

    One can also round the head of a lag bolt that sets into concrete or has an expanding nut, few are going to spend an hour trying to remove a rounded off bolt. These types want to get out quick, and every noise they hear while on your property increases their anxiety a notch, until they nope out of there.
    I will suffer no butt-hurt fools!

  23. #23
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    Chain all my bikes to a large rack in my garage in case I leave the garage door open by accident.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flamingtaco View Post
    Regarding garages:

    1) Any regular doors should have no access from the outside, should be made of reinforced steel, and should have no windows that permit access to opening the door. In addition to a deadbolt, mine has cross bars mounted just outside the hinges that have brackets secured with four 3-1/2" lag bolts each.

    2) It's not enough to just screw down windows so they can't be opened, would-be thieves should not be able to bust out panes and shimmy through. I bolted two aluminum u-channels over each pane, and installed two keyed sash locks in each window.

    3) If your garage door opener does not employee rolling codes, dump it, as the number of possible permutations can be transmitted in as little as 9 seconds, using a cheap wireless toy.

    4) The bar between the chain or bar screw shuttle and the door is not strong, and a door can lifted enough to permit sliding underneath it by applying enough force to bend this bar. An aluminum tube of sufficient diameter and thickness will resolve this in all but a brute force attack with jacks. Some mfg's also sell deadbolts that work with the garage door opener to secure the door when it closes.

    4) Install a jackshaft opener, they attach directly to the torsion bar, eliminating the track, chain or bar screw, and the link bar that can be defeated. I installed a Dayton-Walton iDrive that mounts on the torsion bar and has a leg that rotates down to the top of the garage door when after the door stops so the door cannot be forced up. Other brands can mount to excess torsion bar run past the pulley on either side, and incorporate some type of mechanism to lock the torsion bar when closed so the full weight of the door must be lifted to open it. I'd go with add-on deadbolts for that style, but I doubt their are any thieves that are want your bike enough to acquire the tools necessary to lift a 600-800Lb door.

    5) Lock the bike in the garage, even with all of the above. While hardened chains and what not are great, few thieves are going to bring a bolt cutter to steal a bike from a garage. They want to be light in case they have to bolt, and they know almost no one locks up their bikes inside their garage. I use a coated 3/8" cable bolted to a structural 2x4 behind the wall via a locked access panel, with a decent combo lock.

    Flamingtaco has provided great information. Half measures will not protect your expensive bikes. I once locked my bike to the steel frame of my pop-up camper near downtown Austin years ago. My buddy had me unlock his bike so he could go out for drinks. He didn't want to wake me, so he locked his bike to mine with a thick cable lock when he got back. Both of our bikes were underneath the slide-out bed he was sleeping on, maybe 16" from where he was sleeping. In the morning, we discover his thick cable lock in several pieces and his Surly fat tire bike gone. My bike was still safe and secure. Don't be cheap about security.

    Mount more cameras around points of entry. Use motion sensing lights that are very bright and that reset quickly so they will go on and off a lot when someone is near them. Put a sign on that side door of your garage that says you are a well-armed marksmen. I've seen such signs.

    Install a security door on your garage side entry door like the ones most of us use on our front entry door

    WTF, STOLEN: Intense Tracer 27.5 Alloy Medium Black, Custom Build-20180210_165757_resized.jpg


    Buy yourself the best available locks and chains. I've had my Quadra-chain and Panzer lock for years. Now I've added larger diameter eight sided chains as well. I drilled a large hole in the concrete filled steel pipe the builders put in front of water heaters in garages. I bought it long enough to add 5 or 6 nylon lock nuts on the threaded end. The eye is large enough for me to fit a large hardened steel chain through it and lock it with my panzer lock. I then run my 18mm thick, 8 foot long OnGuard chain through that loop and through our two Pivots. I also keep a shorter OnGuard chain with a small u-lock in my vehicle for when I need to secure our bikes on the rack for a few minutes to grab a soda after a ride.

    We got max rated after our home in Flagstaff was burglarized a few years ago. You really can't afford to be victimized a second time. Also, contact the police and see if they will run a sting operation. One good bike thief can steal dozens of bikes each year. I had a high-end car stereo stolen the night after I purchased it. The police told me they suspected the shop was selling addresses of high-end stereos to thieves, and were running a sting operation to confirm.

    Here are some shots of our dirty bikes and effective locks.

    WTF, STOLEN: Intense Tracer 27.5 Alloy Medium Black, Custom Build-20180210_100150_resized.jpg

    WTF, STOLEN: Intense Tracer 27.5 Alloy Medium Black, Custom Build-20180210_100136_resized.jpg

    WTF, STOLEN: Intense Tracer 27.5 Alloy Medium Black, Custom Build-20180210_100038_resized.jpg

    WTF, STOLEN: Intense Tracer 27.5 Alloy Medium Black, Custom Build-20180210_100022_resized.jpg

    WTF, STOLEN: Intense Tracer 27.5 Alloy Medium Black, Custom Build-20180210_100001_resized.jpg

    WTF, STOLEN: Intense Tracer 27.5 Alloy Medium Black, Custom Build-20180210_095935_resized.jpg

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChampionSleeper View Post
    Thanks Taco, that's a lot of really useful info. Unfortunately, I'm in a rental house right now so I can't modify too heavily.

    I've have been thinking about lag bolting a cable to the wall. Anyone have pictures? How do you protect the lag bolt so that it can't be easily unscrewed? One bolt or multiple? How does the access panel mount and where did you get it?
    When we were in a rental and couldn't drill holes, I had 2 45 pound weight lifting plates in between my 2 expensive bikes with a square chain running through the center of them. Then another square chain going through both bikes. Prevents snatch and grab, you would have needed 1 theif per bike and someone that could lift 90 awkward pounds of plate. Lots of things can be used if you can't drill an anchor point. A 60 patio umbrella base I had at the time was also considered as my anchor point. You basically want to make them panic it will take too much time and move on.

  26. #26
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    Simply Safe alarm. It's real. It's also very inexpensive comparatively and easy to install. You can sensor every single opening to the house. Glassbreak detectors. Motion detectors. Sticker every window and door as well as a sign out front. That alone eliminates a lot of potentials that won't go through the hassle. $15 or $25 a month for 24/7 monitoring, depending on your choice of interactivity with the system. One of their monitoring call centers is there in AZ. When I do "self-tests" on the system, they respond within about 15-20 seconds of triggering. You can take it with you when you move. It relies on its own cell transmitter so no way to intercept the automatic callout. I did my entire house and went big for just under $500. The modifications for securing doors and windows suggested above still applies. I do have to pay $50 a year to my local PD to register the alarm but they know who I am and that it's legit if the get a call out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oh My Sack! View Post
    Simply Safe alarm. It's real. It's also very inexpensive comparatively and easy to install. You can sensor every single opening to the house. Glassbreak detectors. Motion detectors. Sticker every window and door as well as a sign out front. That alone eliminates a lot of potentials that won't go through the hassle. $15 or $25 a month for 24/7 monitoring, depending on your choice of interactivity with the system. One of their monitoring call centers is there in AZ. When I do "self-tests" on the system, they respond within about 15-20 seconds of triggering. You can take it with you when you move. It relies on its own cell transmitter so no way to intercept the automatic callout. I did my entire house and went big for just under $500. The modifications for securing doors and windows suggested above still applies. I do have to pay $50 a year to my local PD to register the alarm but they know who I am and that it's legit if the get a call out.
    I also have been using Simply Safe for several years. I suggest that people buy additional high decibel alarms and place them inside and out, to alert neighbors. some people I know, also add flashing lights outside to help neighbors locate where the alarm is coming from. All alarm companies want you to pay for monitoring service. They'll tell you the police take them more seriously than if you call in the alarm. That is not true. We set up our Simply Safe account so we can set the alarm from our cell phones. We added high-def cameras we purchased at Sam's Club that we can view from our phones to determine if we have a break-in.

    But the bottom line is, burglars and chiefs know that the Phoenix Police won't arrive for 20 minutes. They can get inside, grab what they want, and be long gone by the time a cruiser pulls up. On a busy Friday or Saturday night, I doubt police would arrive in under an hour. And like I have been told, all the cameras normally do is tell police that a male wearing a hoody just stole your stuff. A big dog with sharp teeth might be a better investment.

    Taco had the best advice. Make that access door to the garage as sturdy as possible. Maybe even eliminate it. Then use industrial strength chains and locks to secure your bikes to something stationary and heavy. But add the alarm system and their signs in your yard, as well as their stickers on your windows. And don't forget cameras, lots of high-def cameras. You might film someone in your riding group stealing your bikes.

  28. #28
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    There are water heaters in garages? Huh.
    I will suffer no butt-hurt fools!

  29. #29
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    My Water Heater is in my garage. Probably saves me money in the summer time since the garage gets so hot.

  30. #30
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    When my heater went out about a year back, I put in a gas fired tankless. I will never own a tank heater again. Hot water does not run out, uses about half the gas, stainless design won't rust/leak, cannot explode, cleared 4sq-ft of floor space in my small laundry room.
    I will suffer no butt-hurt fools!

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    This sketchy ad just popped up on craigslist.

    From ad:
    Intense tracer 275 need gone - $1800 (Awhatukee)
    My girlfriends bike never got into it very good condition.

    https://phoenix.craigslist.org/wvl/b...616998483.html

    EDIT: I'm thinking it might spook the person if a bunch of people email all of the sudden, please hold off for now I guess. I've got a couple inquiries out between myself and a few friends. I'll update later.

    [[Please hold off on this for now: Can anyone help me get a picture to see if this might be the bike? ]]

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChampionSleeper View Post
    This sketchy ad just popped up on craigslist.

    From ad:
    Intense tracer 275 need gone - $1800 (Awhatukee)
    My girlfriends bike never got into it very good condition.

    https://phoenix.craigslist.org/wvl/b...616998483.html

    EDIT: I'm thinking it might spook the person if a bunch of people email all of the sudden, please hold off for now I guess. I've got a couple inquiries out between myself and a few friends. I'll update later.

    [[Please hold off on this for now: Can anyone help me get a picture to see if this might be the bike? ]]
    Pictures are now up on the post.

    WTF, STOLEN: Intense Tracer 27.5 Alloy Medium Black, Custom Build-untitled.jpg

    This is not the bike you are looking for, move along.

  33. #33
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    WTF, STOLEN: Intense Tracer 27.5 Alloy Medium Black, Custom Build

    Quote Originally Posted by Phillbo View Post
    5'7" black male with black hair and wearing a hoody.... Can I be the one to be called a racist by stating that is the description of the majority of thefts in the valley ?
    Most people in jail are Caucasian. And really, whatís the point of your post on this forum? Will it help the OP recover his bike?

    Since we are talking about race and how it applies to this thread.
    1. My family has been in this country for over 200 hundred years.
    2. My family has served, and continues to serve in the armed forces.
    3. My family pays taxes.
    4. My family has served in law enforcement.

    Too bad one canít say the same about our commander in chief.

    BTW, your bike doesnít cost 1/2 as much as my three bikes. Guess that makes me a great thief, eh.



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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrDon View Post

    Too bad one canít say the same about our commander in chief.
    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
    Did you campaign against the last CiC under that same premise or are you just looking for a bullshit reason to being that comment to the table?

    Talk about "dumbasses".

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oh My Sack! View Post
    Did you campaign against the last CiC under that same premise or are you just looking for a bullshit reason to being that comment to the table?

    Talk about "dumbasses".
    The last CiCís family served in the military. BTW, I and my family have voted Republican in the past for true Republicans, not demagogues who want to throw Americans who served and built this country under the bus.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Oh My Sack! View Post
    Did you campaign against the last CiC under that same premise or are you just looking for a bullshit reason to being that comment to the table?

    Talk about "dumbasses".
    How does one exist as a comment? What happens when existence reaches the point of table? Perhaps I'm a dumbass too? I do recognize irony however...

  37. #37
    change is good
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrDon View Post
    The last CiCís family served in the military. BTW, I and my family have voted Republican in the past for true Republicans, not demagogues who want to throw Americans who served and built this country under the bus.

    With the exception of Senator McCain. What a loser. That Muslim gold star familyís son - probably a terrorist. The gays? How dare they try to protect my freedom.

    What really pisses me off is all those pill popping meth heads that steal everything but bikes in rural counties my taxes are paying for. Oops, they are real Americans.

    Such BS. I work in trump country and the vast majority are decent people. But I would not dare attach all of them to Charlottesville.



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  38. #38
    IPA tester
    Reputation: Dirtrider127's Avatar
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    Please leave the political BS for some other website. We just come here for bike drama.
    Thank you
    "We'll ride it until they pave it."

    -Urban Yeti
    Dirttreaders.com

  39. #39
    Elitest thrill junkie
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    So how hot is it?
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirtrider127 View Post
    Please leave the political BS for some other website. We just come here for bike drama.
    Thank you
    Agree. The Mods should of challenged Philboís post. Maybe they werenít aware. If they want to challenge mine so be it. I and others donít come here to have my race, and ultimately my family to get dumped on.


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  41. #41
    Here, diagonally!
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrDon View Post
    Agree. The Mods should of challenged Philboís post. Maybe they werenít aware. If they want to challenge mine so be it. I and others donít come here to have my race, and ultimately my family to get dumped on.
    I think your response was reasonable, considering Philbo's post. Looks like we are all good now.

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