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  1. #1
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    Who dumbed down easy/lower oldham and rocky ridge?

    This area is practically in my back yard so I ride it a lot. Tonight I noticed lots of little changes, especially on rocky ridge from the lookout road trailhead down to at least the first lookout road exit. On one part of easy, a squeeze between two small boulders they put sticks over the it and cut a trail right next to it! Wtf? I like that little squeeze. One of the little drops at top of rocky flattened.... A nasty bolder on a hard left on rocky removed and smoothed...

    Why was this necessary? Nothing there was overly difficult or really dangerous or annoying. I noticed some marker tape on the rocky ridge sign but checked the FBO site, it wasn't a trail day area recently.

  2. #2
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    C Rec I bet. It was to get water off of the trail tread. Honestly not a big deal. Keep riding your bike and carry on, I swear we have been through this before. The drop? Water falls off of it and rolls creating a hole, riders climbing up the trail start to divert around said hole and now difficult lift creating a much wider trail, eventually someone comes in to fix the problem. I also don't always agree with there line choices but they are just trying to bring back the single track, don't worry tho, if they closed a more popular line and one that is so with expert riders I bet it will come back.

  3. #3
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    Thanks ra, I guess I become used to all the little nuances on trails and then take it personal when it changes. U can bet that I will carry on. I am thankfull for all that crec and ace do out there.

  4. #4
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    I remember being really upset about the early 2000's dumb down of rocky ridge. I would be all for it now. I must be getting slower.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by slat3dx View Post
    This area is practically in my back yard so I ride it a lot. Tonight I noticed lots of little changes, especially on rocky ridge from the lookout road trailhead down to at least the first lookout road exit. On one part of easy, a squeeze between two small boulders they put sticks over the it and cut a trail right next to it! Wtf? I like that little squeeze. One of the little drops at top of rocky flattened.... A nasty bolder on a hard left on rocky removed and smoothed...

    Why was this necessary? Nothing there was overly difficult or really dangerous or annoying. I noticed some marker tape on the rocky ridge sign but checked the FBO site, it wasn't a trail day area recently.
    not CREC. not ACE. not FBO.

    this sort of work can only be the work of The Nightranger.

    no question about it. all the tell tale signs: the divots, the reroutes, the blocked more-challenging braides...

    plus, i believe he loves to work under the full moon. prolly looks like daylight in his night vision goggles.
    "Let our people travel light and free on their bicycles." Ed Abbey
    http://www.rockychrysler.com/

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockychrysler View Post
    not CREC. not ACE. not FBO.

    this sort of work can only be the work of The Nightranger.

    no question about it. all the tell tale signs: the divots, the reroutes, the blocked more-challenging braides...

    plus, i believe he loves to work under the full moon. prolly looks like daylight in his night vision goggles.
    Tell us more about this Nightranger rc. Is this for real? I did notice a new line on RR that I really liked.

  7. #7
    slower than you
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    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona View Post
    Tell us more about this Nightranger rc. Is this for real? I did notice a new line on RR that I really liked.
    The Nightranger is real.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    "Let our people travel light and free on their bicycles." Ed Abbey
    http://www.rockychrysler.com/

  8. #8
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    Do You Like the New Trail Improvement on the Rocky Ridge Trail????

    There has been some discussion of the new trail improvements on the Racky Ridge trail. It seems like some of it is positive and some negative. For those who get a chance to ride the trail please give your impression as to whether it is a better user experience or it is worse.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    There has been some discussion of the new trail improvements on the Racky Ridge trail. It seems like some of it is positive and some negative. For those who get a chance to ride the trail please give your impression as to whether it is a better user experience or it is worse.
    it's worse.

    because none of it was done to remove debris from drains, or to provide for better water management in any other way.

    it was all done to make the trail simpler to ride. period.

    you see, this is what The Nightranger (and those like him) does. he sets the bar for all trails based on his (in)ability and then engineers them to suit his desires.

    fortunately, Rocky Ridge (and trails like it) is solid rock for probably at least 5000', maybe a million feet, down. so whatever The Nightranger thinks he's doing, it is a truly sisyphean task. the rocks will always return. therefore the rocks will always win. yay rocks!

    meantime, The Nightranger will surely persist. because he can.
    "Let our people travel light and free on their bicycles." Ed Abbey
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockychrysler View Post
    it's worse.

    because none of it was done to remove debris from drains, or to provide for better water management in any other way.

    it was all done to make the trail simpler to ride. period.

    you see, this is what The Nightranger (and those like him) does. he sets the bar for all trails based on his (in)ability and then engineers them to suit his desires.

    fortunately, Rocky Ridge (and trails like it) is solid rock for probably at least 5000', maybe a million feet, down. so whatever The Nightranger thinks he's doing, it is a truly sisyphean task. the rocks will always return. therefore the rocks will always win. yay rocks!

    meantime, The Nightranger will surely persist. because he can.
    rc:

    If only some of that energy could be harnessed to help with ra's project.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockychrysler View Post
    it's worse.

    because none of it was done to remove debris from drains, or to provide for better water management in any other way.

    it was all done to make the trail simpler to ride. period.

    you see, this is what The Nightranger (and those like him) does. he sets the bar for all trails based on his (in)ability and then engineers them to suit his desires.

    fortunately, Rocky Ridge (and trails like it) is solid rock for probably at least 5000', maybe a million feet, down. so whatever The Nightranger thinks he's doing, it is a truly sisyphean task. the rocks will always return. therefore the rocks will always win. yay rocks!

    meantime, The Nightranger will surely persist. because he can.
    The Nightranger does not post his work on the internet so he will not get the FS ban. Well, except that one time he rode in the closed forest during the Schultz burn and posted pics. I think he learned his lesson.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by m77ranger View Post
    The Nightranger does not post his work on the internet so he will not get the FS ban. Well, except that one time he rode in the closed forest during the Schultz burn and posted pics. I think he learned his lesson.
    like.
    "Let our people travel light and free on their bicycles." Ed Abbey
    http://www.rockychrysler.com/

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by m77ranger View Post
    The Nightranger does not post his work on the internet so he will not get the FS ban. Well, except that one time he rode in the closed forest during the Schultz burn and posted pics. I think he learned his lesson.
    Ranger:

    Again you are right about someone posting their non-sanctioned trail work on MTBR is not a good long term policy. It is best to keep it all secret and let your buddies ride it.

    Personally I believe in transparency, but I think that decision is up to the person doing the work.

    In the old days before MTBR and the in,ternet news about a really cool new trails and sh!tty trail improvements traveled slowly, now the word gets out a lot faster as we all know.

    As far as I can tell getting the word out faster allows more riders the opportunity to enjoy Something Different. I wonder if God will judge the trail builder who kept his work a secret any different than the builder who shared it with the world? What do you think?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    Ranger:

    Again you are right about someone posting their non-sanctioned trail work on MTBR is not a good long term policy. It is best to keep it all secret and let your buddies ride it.

    Personally I believe in transparency, but I think that decision is up to the person doing the work.

    In the old days before MTBR and the in,ternet news about a really cool new trails and sh!tty trail improvements traveled slowly, now the word gets out a lot faster as we all know.

    As far as I can tell getting the word out faster allows more riders the opportunity to enjoy Something Different. I wonder if God will judge the trail builder who kept his work a secret any different than the builder who shared it with the world? What do you think?
    Apples and oranges doc. Why go down this road? There's been no mention in this thread of building trails and keeping them secret for your bros, or conversely advertising them on the internet so visitor's don't have to do any homework. Give it a rest.

  15. #15
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    The Nightranger has many names (or avatars, as the case may be)...

    Quote Originally Posted by Section 25 View Post
    I've been doing a lot of riding in Flagstaff. Seen a lot of good trails and some trails getting beat up by ma nature, motorcycles, and mister ed. Ran into people making improvements on system trails; Secret, Schultz, Little Elden, Rocky Ridge, Elden Lookout, Sandy Seep, Little Bear. A.C.E. crews were doing serious trail improvements on a couple trails. My good friends Quinimine, Wayfaring Stranger, Burning Bush, and The Prodigal Son were making much needed repairs to sections of other trails, including new improvements to failing drains on upper Rocky Ridge. Yesterday, there were additional drains cleaned out on Elden Lookout and Pipeline Trail (aka Thirsty Dog Trail). It would seem that repairing failing drains is the primary objective on most of the trail improvements. Perhaps you need to pay closer attention so you can confirm this. Also, I've seen these guys ride and they are not without skills. I even discussed with them the notion they were just making the trail simpler. They made the observation that trails that flow are often mistaken as simple trails. Trails with a non-HAB option next to a difficult step or drop are often viewed as dumbed down because most riders choose the easier option, despite the difficult option that remains available. How is the bar set? Intelligently, sensibly, sustainably. Flow is king. It makes perfect sense. I learned a lot from these intrepid trail builders. You could too, if you wanted. They may save you the trouble. They are sitting down with the local newspaper, making plans to have a writer embedded within their ranks, learning the specifics of why the work is done, who benefits, what sort of blow back can occur, and the positions of FBO and land managers. Perhaps you can share your thoughts with the writer.

    Section 25 says hello to all and thanks to all the trail builders in AZ.
    "Let our people travel light and free on their bicycles." Ed Abbey
    http://www.rockychrysler.com/

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Section 25 View Post
    I've been doing a lot of riding in Flagstaff. Seen a lot of good trails and some trails getting beat up by ma nature, motorcycles, and mister ed. Ran into people making improvements on system trails; Secret, Schultz, Little Elden, Rocky Ridge, Elden Lookout, Sandy Seep, Little Bear. A.C.E. crews were doing serious trail improvements on a couple trails. My good friends Quinimine, Wayfaring Stranger, Burning Bush, and The Prodigal Son were making much needed repairs to sections of other trails, including new improvements to failing drains on upper Rocky Ridge. Yesterday, there were additional drains cleaned out on Elden Lookout and Pipeline Trail (aka Thirsty Dog Trail). It would seem that repairing failing drains is the primary objective on most of the trail improvements. Perhaps you need to pay closer attention so you can confirm this. Also, I've seen these guys ride and they are not without skills. I even discussed with them the notion they were just making the trail simpler. They made the observation that trails that flow are often mistaken as simple trails. Trails with a non-HAB option next to a difficult step or drop are often viewed as dumbed down because most riders choose the easier option, despite the difficult option that remains available. How is the bar set? Intelligently, sensibly, sustainably. Flow is king. It makes perfect sense. I learned a lot from these intrepid trail builders. You could too, if you wanted. They may save you the trouble. They are sitting down with the local newspaper, making plans to have a writer embedded within their ranks, learning the specifics of why the work is done, who benefits, what sort of blow back can occur, and the positions of FBO and land managers. Perhaps you can share your thoughts with the writer.

    Section 25 says hello to all and thanks to all the trail builders in AZ.
    "embedded writers within their ranks", are they building trails in Iraq? Just wondering.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Section 25 View Post
    He tasks you. He tasks you and you shall have him! You'll chase him 'round the moons of Nibia and 'round the Antares Maelstrom and 'round Perdition's flames before you give him up!



    Who'd of thought that 77Ranger and Raising Arizona would be the diplomats in this thread and you would be the crybaby. Vexed yet again by Nightranger. You couldn't stop him with your typewriter while writing for Flag Live, You couldn't stop him by whining to the Forest Service, You can't make a case against him on MTBR. What's left for you? What's left of your dignity? Perhaps it's time for you to move on. This may be you big chance to get away from it all.
    I heart you Dan! Hows the niner treating you? What new restaurant in F-town should I be dining at (as long as its not in sunnycide)? Benson says hi.

  18. #18
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    Aye, what says you to make Rocky Ridge a "good trail"? It lies so close to the hub of most bike rides (the car park) and riders are immediately faced with a slap on the face (or bum) with its rocky nature. From a trail designers point, a major arterial trail like Rocky Ridge should be wide and flat, perhaps boring, allowing riders to socialize, get settled into their steeds, or make this an honest effort of "mountain biking". The technical trails should lie above. But we have what we have right? A blown out, fall line, waterbar, baby head garden, suckfest. Sack up or head back may be a better line for this trail. Why put up with it when we as builders could do so much better? Well, history and character should be preserved at all costs right?...
    The lesson here from a trail builders point of view is that the classic mistake of removing rock, trying to create some flow and an easy line resulted in a backfire of grand proportions. Soft dirt was quickly washed away, creating a trench, exposing more boulders, which we now dodge happily or not. Now with its soiled history mentioned above, no real effort will bring it back to anyone's liking. It is a community sore spot. The first two (and most important) rules of trail building were not followed. Name these two rules and I will gladly leave a beer behind a rock at the topmost section of this trail.
    There is a big difference between ripping and skidding.

  19. #19
    bland
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    Quote Originally Posted by Section 25 View Post
    The Niner has made me a better rider than I ever was before. Sometimes I purposely pick a band line though large rocks to see if it will save my butt. So far, so good. It wasn't meant to have an old triple ring crankset, so I was forced to have custom rings cut by a guy in Austin. 30 and 40 tooth middle and large rings. The Reba RLT ti is set up at 130mm. Seems just right. I have it way under-presured, at 75psi. Like butter. But the rig is a boat anchor, over 31 pounds. But since I couldn't shed any weight off of it, I decided to trim 12 pounds off of me.

    OK, here's the biggest culinary news of the year. I was driving on Steve's Blvd, just north of 89, and I glanced over to the strip mall shops, and saw a bright colored sign that immediately caught my eye because of the word "Pho" on it. I drove over and parked, so I could get me some Bun Thit Nugyen to go. They are not opened yet. But soon they will be. I always thought this town would be perfect if it only had a good Vietnamese restaurant like the many I have found in Phoenix. This could be it. Other than that, I can only report they finally opened the new restaurant on Fort Valley. It's a seafood and porkchop restaurant, I think. Still haven't tried the custard at Freddies steakburger, but we did try the burgers at Five Guys. No big deal. My favorite treat of the last two weeks is the $1.50 chocolate milk shake at Sam's Club. They quit using the old method of adding syrup to ice cream and mixing it. They got a machine that just oozes out chocolate ice milk shakes. I prefer them to the creamy shakes.

    The misses ran into Buckwyld on last Saturdays ride in Fort Valley. His wedding anniversary was last week. Too bad he's stuck homesteading in our house in Phoenix. He's missing out on a great season of riding up here. The trails are so nice, nightranger may just sit back and watch football games during his down time.
    Is the greek joint that took over the last pho depot any good? Its a shame Flag lost J n' Z to the south.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chalkpaw View Post
    Aye, what says you to make Rocky Ridge a "good trail"? It lies so close to the hub of most bike rides (the car park) and riders are immediately faced with a slap on the face (or bum) with its rocky nature. From a trail designers point, a major arterial trail like Rocky Ridge should be wide and flat, perhaps boring, allowing riders to socialize, get settled into their steeds, or make this an honest effort of "mountain biking". The technical trails should lie above. But we have what we have right? A blown out, fall line, waterbar, baby head garden, suckfest. Sack up or head back may be a better line for this trail. Why put up with it when we as builders could do so much better? Well, history and character should be preserved at all costs right?...
    The lesson here from a trail builders point of view is that the classic mistake of removing rock, trying to create some flow and an easy line resulted in a backfire of grand proportions. Soft dirt was quickly washed away, creating a trench, exposing more boulders, which we now dodge happily or not. Now with its soiled history mentioned above, no real effort will bring it back to anyone's liking. It is a community sore spot. The first two (and most important) rules of trail building were not followed. Name these two rules and I will gladly leave a beer behind a rock at the topmost section of this trail.
    The big one for me and I think most is....get the water off the trail.

  21. #21
    slower than you
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    In an effort to curb further infringement or circumvention of banning on this site via false-re-avataring as well as pseudo-self-new-naming, I have pre-reserved the following post-punk band names, biblical character references, and obscure anime monikers for myself. They will henceforth be unavailable to third parties or will, as necessary, be used as another login-name by me in order to avoid awkward self identification:

    Timbuk the 3rd
    10000th Maniac
    Violent Femme
    Skinny Puppy
    The Pretender
    The Good Samaritan
    The Suffering Servant
    Yahweh
    St Paul's Cathedral
    New Orders
    God's Gift
    Flesh for LuLu
    Shinji Ikari
    The B-52
    Totoro
    Moses
    Flock of Seagulls
    Light (and Heavy) Yagami
    "Let our people travel light and free on their bicycles." Ed Abbey
    http://www.rockychrysler.com/

  22. #22
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    Hi everyone, I'm new to this forum. I rode Rocky Ridge for the first time this week. I'd just like to say I think Rocky RIdge is a great trail!

  23. #23
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    Congratulations are in order Chalkpaw! You've made the 250 word club

  24. #24
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    So we have a new traildoc in the flag area effing things up .... great.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillbo View Post
    So we have a new traildoc in the flag area effing things up .... great.
    P:

    Your consistency is at least consistent. Section 25 made a pretty good case from my POV about the Rocky Ridge Trail. It sounds like Rocky Ridge is similar to the Tea Cup and Jordan trail in Sedona. They both serve as a major connector between two different areas and are used by a highly skilled and lesser skilled group of riders.

    Chalkpaw has helped me make Tea Cup a more rideable trail for those lesser skilled riders and guys like now banned Gemooker who came up with the same stupid comment like you have about the trail improvements we did on the trail.

    Jennifer Burns and Plumber Phil came in and did a major re-route below Roller Coaster Proper and Jennifer totally decommissioned the steep eroding technical climbing section to eliminate a section that was eroding faster than the rest of the trail.

    I also did additional trail work on Tea Cup that the FS cited me for and I got additional flack from doing the work, but I don't see anyone tearing the work out and making the trail harder to ride.

    The trail has become more user friendly for the masses and that should be a good thing in my play book. There are still challenging spots that the higher skilled rider can test their skills on, so in my opinion the trail has improved dramatically since Chalkpaw, Jennifer, Phil and I have worked on it.

    I assume they would defend the work they did on the trail as a good thing, as I have, while critics like you think the work we did effed up the trail. I say you don't know what you are talking about, and you would have a difficult time proving me wrong.

    TD

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