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  1. #76
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    Rode up Rocky Ridge a few days ago and noticed the recent work...I don't think it changed the nature of the trail...more like buffing out some rough edges and filling in ruts...definitely made for a more flowy ride.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    It would be interesting to do a study to see how many people like the NEWLY improved Rocky Ridge trail. If the majority said they like it then we would all get a better idea if the recent changes made are appreciated by the masses. Obviously the 5%'ers are never going to be happy.
    I never a saw a problem with the old one. Last time I rode Rocky Ridge was in July. I probably won't be ridding it until May or June next year and I sure hope it was not too easy now. BTW.. Moving few rocks in 2-3 spots is not a concern for me. I will never even notice them, but changing the character from a rocky trail you have constant work the bike through for every foot you ride is the way the trail is. No easy pedaling on rocky ridge.

    And is from a guy on a 26" hardtail...
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  3. #78
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    Making an easy trail easier, just makes it faster. This stuff was always easy, now it's just faster, which will probably piss off a lot more hikers and spodes.
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  4. #79
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    I like that connector to wasabi..I believe it's called Upper Oldham..oh no there it goes!
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  5. #80
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    I didn't mind some of the work down towards the west end of RR, basic erosion repair without neutering anything. Some of the wash crossings towards the east end however, I feel were a bit too sanitized.

    Yes it makes for a more flowy experience, but a few of those sections were very real challenges for me that I enjoyed.

    I understand a need for connectors and the need to make connectors more or less ride able....I just don't want RR to become homogenized, and another extension of schultz. I like its character and its challenges.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuctionGoat View Post
    I didn't mind some of the work down towards the west end of RR, basic erosion repair without neutering anything. Some of the wash crossings towards the east end however, I feel were a bit too sanitized.

    Yes it makes for a more flowy experience, but a few of those sections were very real challenges for me that I enjoyed.

    I understand a need for connectors and the need to make connectors more or less ride able....I just don't want RR to become homogenized, and another extension of schultz. I like its character and its challenges.
    well, it's now part of passage33 of the AZ trail. The Arizona Trail - Passage #33

    This is 2nd hand info but I believe the FS management plan for RR is to do a complete makeover so it's on par with the other segments (ie., grade, width, sustainability, etc.). I presume that's a class type 3 trail but the rugged nature of the west end of RR is going to change. For those who want the character to remain unchanged should start writing some letters or circulating petitions.

  7. #82
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    I got bored of that trail after I cleaned it over and over again in 2002 on my giant rincon se. Word on the street is that the night ranger and his new buddy with the glasses have been photographed doing un-authorized "trail improvements" on Schultz a few weeks ago. Anyone notice the changes?

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by m77ranger View Post
    I got bored of that trail after I cleaned it over and over again in 2002 on my giant rincon se. Word on the street is that the night ranger and his new buddy with the glasses have been photographed doing un-authorized "trail improvements" on Schultz a few weeks ago. Anyone notice the changes?
    Yes, there has been quite a bit of grooming on Schultz but I wasn't sure if it was the ACE crew that did the reroute.

  9. #84
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    Great Rocky Ridge was one of my highlights on Elden. I had never cleared it,but it was always worth attempt. That first mile or so on west end was the best as it hit you really hard with climb and nasty rocks. Always took alot of work man handle the bike over and round the rocks/steps. Made you work for each one. Easily rideable on hardtail or rigid if the rider were skilled, but all HAB if you had no skills. This is unlike some of other trails that are so steep that they force you in more DH riding style.

    If I compare it ti lower brookbank... that is a trail they need to change. Steep and rocky and would be rideable it were just one of the two. And there is no alternate to top of Dry lake on that side of the Mtn. Weenie's should be directed to the road there and not make rocky ridge easier. Look I would love to be able ride up upper oldham to the top, but I am not looking to change that. I can't ride that trail, but I have the road so I don't want to change upper oldham. I am sure some really love the challenge in both directions. Also I think the hobbit forest has deteriorate from hardtail rideable to DH only, but I don't suggest changing it. I would rather see more HT guys ride it to re-establish a slower line. There used to be one there, but last time I rode there it seemed gone.

    Anyway rocky ridge was always a "must ride" for me due to is rocky character and IMHO one of the most fun parts of elden. I will be sad to see it smoothed out.
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  10. #85
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    It was the ACE crew that did the reroute on shultz as far as I know, with the intent of getting the trail out of the drainage. The new section IS rather smooth, but I think it will burn in and evolve into a more fun section. The location and lay out of the trail is great, I just wish there were a few more anchored rocks or features on it.

    I did see what appeared to be "random dude" cleaning up existing sections of Schultz by himself about a month ago. He did not have the PPE or look of a professional trail guy at all, and seemed nervous. After looking at this guys work, and what I see ACE crews doing.... there is a noticeable difference in approach and quality with the ACE stuff.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrwhlr View Post
    Making an easy trail easier, just makes it faster. This stuff was always easy, now it's just faster, which will probably piss off a lot more hikers and spodes.
    Oh awesome, we made it more dangerous for hikers. That's going to go over well in the long run...
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  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoePAz View Post

    If I compare it ti lower brookbank... that is a trail they need to change. Steep and rocky and would be rideable it were just one of the two. And there is no alternate to top of Dry lake on that side of the Mtn. Weenie's should be directed to the road there and not make rocky ridge easier. Look I would love to be able ride up upper oldham to the top, but I am not looking to change that. I can't ride that trail, but I have the road so I don't want to change upper oldham. I am sure some really love the challenge in both directions. Also I think the hobbit forest has deteriorate from hardtail rideable to DH only, but I don't suggest changing it. I would rather see more HT guys ride it to re-establish a slower line. There used to be one there, but last time I rode there it seemed gone.

    Anyway rocky ridge was always a "must ride" for me due to is rocky character and IMHO one of the most fun parts of elden. I will be sad to see it smoothed out.
    Again, great points. Upper Brookbank and Oldham are in dire need of work, rerouting and maintenance. It's always sad when the trail crews won't even touch the biggest known issues and the focus efforts in other areas. It's frustrating if you are a trail user.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Again, great points. Upper Brookbank and Oldham are in dire need of work, rerouting and maintenance. It's always sad when the trail crews won't even touch the biggest known issues and the focus efforts in other areas. It's frustrating if you are a trail user.
    FYI, and maybe those who are doing the heavy lifting will chime in but the plan is put U. Oldham and L. Brookbank out to pasture. Retired for good and the plan is for complete reroutes.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    FYI, and maybe those who are doing the heavy lifting will chime in but the plan is put U. Oldham and L. Brookbank out to pasture. Retired for good and the plan is for complete reroutes.
    And that's been planned for what, like 10 years? Sorry, but the time has long since come that it should have been done, at the very least if RR and Schultz are getting so much care, not to mention new trails built up near Secret and Lookout...That's the "frustrating" part I was mentioning. It's not that trails don't need maint, but it seems that there are far more pressing projects.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  15. #90
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    Trail and error

    I would hate to see Lower Brook "put out to pasture." If a new, alternate line is created (the typical 101 switchbacks that all look alike), I want to see Lower Brook left as is, NOT closed. I know the trail running community uses that trail a lot, not to mention hikers who find it an efficient way up to Dry Lake Hills as a solid, long power walk with really nice views along the way. Some I talk to in that user group are not happy when I tell them that it may be re-routed. I go up it with a rake a couple times a year to remove the rubble and that is all it really needs. It is one of the last true, steep grunts up the mountain. Some friends and I were just talking about the challenge today, in fact. It is a rare "trail" that demands a lot of focus and attention to make it up without dabbing. I haven't cleared the top section in like 12 years! But I do like the challenge. Going "easy" with a 2x9 is never easy, but many of us do love that heart pounding in the ears 15 min. effort! Lately I have been finding it is in decent shape going downhill too. So, to sum up, leave it there for us crazies who like that sort of thing. Never understood why when something is re-routed, the old line is not left open for the option. Besides, Lower Brook is just the old road bed from years ago, sort of nostalgic. As far as Schultz....man, I cringe every time I ride up it and see some of the old classic embedded rocks being removed, or sections being re-routed, like the portion past what was once the Lincoln logs (geez, whatever happened to those!) that is now a narrow strip that is begging for some head on collisions with no line of sight. The features often times slow people down enough to make the trail safer for all user groups. The Rocky Ridge issue bums many people out as well. I hoped that the Fort Valley style of trail stayed W. of Schultz Pass Road. You can have your AZT numbness. I have only been riding these trails for 15 years, and I know some have had way more years than I. When I first started riding here, I never thought I could possibly clean the Hobbit Forest or Wild and Wooly. Still recall the day I pieced them together! Seems that the trails change slightly year to year due to erosion, etc, but it seemed no biggie, the line moved a foot or two for a couple of years, then moved somewhere else, all confined in a reasonable "singletrack." Riding these trails on rigid 26ers was, and still is totally doable. Just ask the Mutants. With so many dual suspension bikes, 26 and 29, 4 inch up to 6+, the trails have only become "easier." Don't get me started on whoever cut the roots on the "drop in" to Sunset trail coming from the top of Schultz! WTF?! I am sure the tree appreciated that, and so what if you couldn't clean it from time to time? If you want smooth, more "sustainable" trail, go ride the FUTS or the road! By the way I do both, and it IS all good. I hate to see so much division here in Flag. We all ride for mostly the same reasons, in our own styles. We have world class trails right outside our door. So many people who have moved away (CO, CA, MT, ID) totally miss the DIVERSITY of trails here. Lots of our trails actually have rocks/log rides and keep you on point! So many awesome trails for so many different skill sets. Sorry, this is long, and just ranting at this point. So, in conclusion, keep Lower Brookbank open. Thanks for your time.

  16. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    And that's been planned for what, like 10 years? Sorry, but the time has long since come that it should have been done, at the very least if RR and Schultz are getting so much care, not to mention new trails built up near Secret and Lookout...That's the "frustrating" part I was mentioning. It's not that trails don't need maint, but it seems that there are far more pressing projects.
    Jayem:

    I think RR is being maintained by the Night Ranger, wher it seems Shultz is being maintained by the landmanager or contract crew, if that makes any difference in your post. I don't think the Flagstaff area has an Adopt-a-Trail Program yet to help with those maintenance issues. I think the Night Ranger is all for an Adopt-a-Trail program, but until it is put in place he just trying to keep his skill set in shape.

  17. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoePAz View Post
    Great Rocky Ridge was one of my highlights on Elden. I had never cleared it,but it was always worth attempt. That first mile or so on west end was the best as it hit you really hard with climb and nasty rocks. Always took alot of work man handle the bike over and round the rocks/steps. Made you work for each one. Easily rideable on hardtail or rigid if the rider were skilled, but all HAB if you had no skills. This is unlike some of other trails that are so steep that they force you in more DH riding style.

    If I compare it ti lower brookbank... that is a trail they need to change. Steep and rocky and would be rideable it were just one of the two. And there is no alternate to top of Dry lake on that side of the Mtn. Weenie's should be directed to the road there and not make rocky ridge easier. Look I would love to be able ride up upper oldham to the top, but I am not looking to change that. I can't ride that trail, but I have the road so I don't want to change upper oldham. I am sure some really love the challenge in both directions. Also I think the hobbit forest has deteriorate from hardtail rideable to DH only, but I don't suggest changing it. I would rather see more HT guys ride it to re-establish a slower line. There used to be one there, but last time I rode there it seemed gone.

    Anyway rocky ridge was always a "must ride" for me due to is rocky character and IMHO one of the most fun parts of elden. I will be sad to see it smoothed out.

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  18. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by jps View Post
    Don't get me started on whoever cut the roots on the "drop in" to Sunset trail coming from the top of Schultz! WTF?! I am sure the tree appreciated that, and so what if you couldn't clean it from time to time?
    This sounds horrible.....and I did not see it happen.....but I was riding by when the FS had a crew out there.....and it looked like they were about to cut at this spot.......I never said anything because I thought...."surely......they would not do that....."

    LMAO.......thanks for helping fill in a piece of the puzzle.

  19. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by jps View Post
    I would hate to see Lower Brook "put out to pasture." If a new, alternate line is created (the typical 101 switchbacks that all look alike), I want to see Lower Brook left as is, NOT closed. I know the trail running community uses that trail a lot, not to mention hikers who find it an efficient way up to Dry Lake Hills as a solid, long power walk with really nice views along the way. Some I talk to in that user group are not happy when I tell them that it may be re-routed. I go up it with a rake a couple times a year to remove the rubble and that is all it really needs. It is one of the last true, steep grunts up the mountain. Some friends and I were just talking about the challenge today, in fact. It is a rare "trail" that demands a lot of focus and attention to make it up without dabbing. I haven't cleared the top section in like 12 years! But I do like the challenge. Going "easy" with a 2x9 is never easy, but many of us do love that heart pounding in the ears 15 min. effort! Lately I have been finding it is in decent shape going downhill too. So, to sum up, leave it there for us crazies who like that sort of thing. Never understood why when something is re-routed, the old line is not left open for the option. Besides, Lower Brook is just the old road bed from years ago, sort of nostalgic. As far as Schultz....man, I cringe every time I ride up it and see some of the old classic embedded rocks being removed, or sections being re-routed, like the portion past what was once the Lincoln logs (geez, whatever happened to those!) that is now a narrow strip that is begging for some head on collisions with no line of sight. The features often times slow people down enough to make the trail safer for all user groups. The Rocky Ridge issue bums many people out as well. I hoped that the Fort Valley style of trail stayed W. of Schultz Pass Road. You can have your AZT numbness. I have only been riding these trails for 15 years, and I know some have had way more years than I. When I first started riding here, I never thought I could possibly clean the Hobbit Forest or Wild and Wooly. Still recall the day I pieced them together! Seems that the trails change slightly year to year due to erosion, etc, but it seemed no biggie, the line moved a foot or two for a couple of years, then moved somewhere else, all confined in a reasonable "singletrack." Riding these trails on rigid 26ers was, and still is totally doable. Just ask the Mutants. With so many dual suspension bikes, 26 and 29, 4 inch up to 6+, the trails have only become "easier." Don't get me started on whoever cut the roots on the "drop in" to Sunset trail coming from the top of Schultz! WTF?! I am sure the tree appreciated that, and so what if you couldn't clean it from time to time? If you want smooth, more "sustainable" trail, go ride the FUTS or the road! By the way I do both, and it IS all good. I hate to see so much division here in Flag. We all ride for mostly the same reasons, in our own styles. We have world class trails right outside our door. So many people who have moved away (CO, CA, MT, ID) totally miss the DIVERSITY of trails here. Lots of our trails actually have rocks/log rides and keep you on point! So many awesome trails for so many different skill sets. Sorry, this is long, and just ranting at this point. So, in conclusion, keep Lower Brookbank open. Thanks for your time.
    Paragraphs are nice and I could only read the first and last sentence, but apart from that, are you serious? Not sure...Lower Brookbank so bad...Technical and some tough steep/technical climbs like Upper Brookbank good. Piles of rubble are not an excuse for a trail though, especially when they are 8 foot wide piles of rubble. Not a trail. Just a pile of rocks where the trees do not happen to be growing.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Who dumbed down easy/lower oldham and rocky ridge?-picture-069u.jpg  

    Last edited by Jayem; 11-20-2012 at 06:35 AM.
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  20. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by jps View Post
    I would hate to see Lower Brook "put out to pasture." If a new, alternate line is created (the typical 101 switchbacks that all look alike), I want to see Lower Brook left as is, NOT closed. I know the trail running community uses that trail a lot, not to mention hikers who find it an efficient way up to Dry Lake Hills as a solid, long power walk with really nice views along the way. Some I talk to in that user group are not happy when I tell them that it may be re-routed. I go up it with a rake a couple times a year to remove the rubble and that is all it really needs. It is one of the last true, steep grunts up the mountain. Some friends and I were just talking about the challenge today, in fact. It is a rare "trail" that demands a lot of focus and attention to make it up without dabbing. I haven't cleared the top section in like 12 years! But I do like the challenge. Going "easy" with a 2x9 is never easy, but many of us do love that heart pounding in the ears 15 min. effort! Lately I have been finding it is in decent shape going downhill too. So, to sum up, leave it there for us crazies who like that sort of thing. Never understood why when something is re-routed, the old line is not left open for the option. Besides, Lower Brook is just the old road bed from years ago, sort of nostalgic. As far as Schultz....man, I cringe every time I ride up it and see some of the old classic embedded rocks being removed, or sections being re-routed, like the portion past what was once the Lincoln logs (geez, whatever happened to those!) that is now a narrow strip that is begging for some head on collisions with no line of sight. The features often times slow people down enough to make the trail safer for all user groups. The Rocky Ridge issue bums many people out as well. I hoped that the Fort Valley style of trail stayed W. of Schultz Pass Road. You can have your AZT numbness. I have only been riding these trails for 15 years, and I know some have had way more years than I. When I first started riding here, I never thought I could possibly clean the Hobbit Forest or Wild and Wooly. Still recall the day I pieced them together! Seems that the trails change slightly year to year due to erosion, etc, but it seemed no biggie, the line moved a foot or two for a couple of years, then moved somewhere else, all confined in a reasonable "singletrack." Riding these trails on rigid 26ers was, and still is totally doable. Just ask the Mutants. With so many dual suspension bikes, 26 and 29, 4 inch up to 6+, the trails have only become "easier." Don't get me started on whoever cut the roots on the "drop in" to Sunset trail coming from the top of Schultz! WTF?! I am sure the tree appreciated that, and so what if you couldn't clean it from time to time? If you want smooth, more "sustainable" trail, go ride the FUTS or the road! By the way I do both, and it IS all good. I hate to see so much division here in Flag. We all ride for mostly the same reasons, in our own styles. We have world class trails right outside our door. So many people who have moved away (CO, CA, MT, ID) totally miss the DIVERSITY of trails here. Lots of our trails actually have rocks/log rides and keep you on point! So many awesome trails for so many different skill sets. Sorry, this is long, and just ranting at this point. So, in conclusion, keep Lower Brookbank open. Thanks for your time.
    Personally, I can do without the diversity L. Brookbank offers but that's just me. Anyhow, you can put in your vote/opinion here: Mount Elden/Dry Lake (MEDL)realignment/maintenance

  21. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Oh awesome, we made it more dangerous for hikers. That's going to go over well in the long run...
    Ah, I see the job's now half done.
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

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    The ideas that have been thrown around so far are to make main system connections more user friendly in either direction and to create new technical options that make more sense and are built with a riders eye and not a jeep or hiker that wants to blaze straight up a hill side. I don't see or understand any conflict with this concept. Some of us just want a well thought out and designed trail system that will make our trail system that much more attractive to all of the trail users out there. Change isn't easy for most but we are at an important crossroad for the DLH and Elden Trail systems, speak up, get your opinion out there and be part of the change. We have an opportunity to make some really cool things happen for Flagstaff recreation right now.

  23. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Just a pile of rocks where the trees do not happen to be growing.
    I looked it up.

    That is the definition of "trail" in FLG.
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  24. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockychrysler View Post
    I looked it up.

    That is the definition of "trail" in FLG.
    Loose rocks vs solid tho
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