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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by chollaball View Post
    great pic! ive never done any of the DH stuff but Wasabi...someday!
    Last week RA and I shuttled to the top of AZT on showbowel road and took it to Schultz tank went up little gnarly and down ginger. We skipped rocky ridge and took the road back to the car. Its a good route for flabby dh folks to get in some quality descents and still pedal for a while. Ginger is a bit tricky on a trail bike though, doing that roller on my small bike made me nervous. Get up here soon before the monsoons go away and the moon dust returns.

  2. #52
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    It appears the drama has moved north .

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Section 25 View Post

    Oh, to Ranger77, I never tried the Greek restaurant. I figure it's nothing more than an unscale Arby's, and I like my roast beef with Arby's sauce.
    The "European hostess" cant lure you in?

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by m77ranger View Post
    Last week RA and I shuttled to the top of AZT on showbowel road and took it to Schultz tank went up little gnarly and down ginger.
    So I'm looking at Dale's Maps and I see most of your route. I see AZT, Schultz Tank trail isn't marked but it can only one of two trails. I see Little Gnarly (up is north to south?) but I don't see Ginger labeled. Is it even on his map or is it one of the unnamed trails around the south end of Little Gnarly?

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillbo View Post
    It appears the drama has moved north .
    Nope, it's only on mtbr

  6. #56
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    Its funny, I didn't realize there was this much strife concerning trails until I starting reading posts in this forum...

    Technical or not, I just love to ride trails... If its too difficult, I will simply just not ride the trail. If there aren't too many hard sections, I have two feet, I can walk...

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by big0mike View Post
    So I'm looking at Dale's Maps and I see most of your route. I see AZT, Schultz Tank trail isn't marked but it can only one of two trails. I see Little Gnarly (up is north to south?) but I don't see Ginger labeled. Is it even on his map or is it one of the unnamed trails around the south end of Little Gnarly?
    bOm:

    I had the same ? for rockman , and he said Ginger isn't listed. I am sure Dale would love to list Ginger if he got permission from the FGR to do so. Why they don't give him permission can only be speculated, but based on history I would say they don't want you and the rest of the downhill masses riding that trail.

    It's part of the Elite mentality that has gone on for years. The FGR believes that if they give out all the secret trails the FS is going to find out about them and they are going to get shutdown. So for guys like you are going to have to just look at pictures and hope someday ra and 77Ranger will share the trail BETA with you.

    The problem with that is you probably will share it with your buddies and they will share it with their buddies because the trail is so cool. Anyway you get the picture, if they don't tell you where it is at, you are just going to have to ride Rocky Ridge and be happy about it.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    bOm:

    I had the same ? for rockman , and he said Ginger isn't listed. I am sure Dale would love to list Ginger if he got permission from the FGR to do so. Why they don't give him permission can only be speculated, but based on history I would say they don't want you and the rest of the downhill masses riding that trail.

    It's part of the Elite mentality that has gone on for years. The FGR believes that if they give out all the secret trails the FS is going to find out about them and they are going to get shutdown. So for guys like you are going to have to just look at pictures and hope someday ra and 77Ranger will share the trail BETA with you.

    The problem with that is you probably will share it with your buddies and they will share it with their buddies because the trail is so cool. Anyway you get the picture, if they don't tell you where it is at, you are just going to have to ride Rocky Ridge and be happy about it.
    Oh TD would you knock it off with this crap. Nobody is hiding Ginger and Epicrider would be the first to tell you that. He doesn't need permission or the secret handshake. He just hasn't ridden it so he doesn't have a gps track to update his map.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Section 25 View Post
    It's scary they allow you to teach young children. Hey kids, today I want to teach you that you are allowed to lie about others, slander them at will, and never be held accountable. Seriously kids, you can do it and get away with it. Just claim you know others intentions and ignore the truth. Nobody these days cares much about truth and facts. To destroy those you disagree with, you really have to learn to lie about them. Got it, kids?

    You and I are not friends, never were. We are aqauintances, at best. I don't like you and I never did. You do nothing to improve riding for people in this town. From the day I arrived here you have slandered trail builders and the good people at the Forest Service. Often by writing articles in Flagstaff Live, where you could say anything you liked and not be held to any standard of truth. It was sleezy then and it is just as sleezy now.

    I am thankful for people like Raising Arizona who are looking for and finding solutions. And not just that, they are doing the hard work on the ground, and willing to use a lot of their valuable time to see projects through. You better believe they will also be out there swinging tools when the time comes. They are the future. You are the past. An angry malcontenet who is no longer listened to by anyone. Think about it for a moment. Nothing you have ever said or done has accomplished anything. Go ask Poturalski or Murphy or Baxter what they think of you. They would politely say you were a joke and they ignored every complaint you ever made. Some legacy.
    Section 25:

    I just figured out who you are: Charles Krauthammer. His last analysis was less flattering than yours.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    No wrong again. The erosion of trails like RR and Ginger is still a big deal. My point (taken from another thread) was strictly wrt to Schultz Creek. Maybe the sedimentaton affects Bebb's Willow habitat. I don't know. The presence of eroding trails in the SF Peaks is a far different deal than the urban and residential impacts from Sedona on Oak Creek and water quality. Different watersheds. That doesn't mean trail erosion isn't important. What is your point?
    rockman:

    My hope was that in the Mt. Elden area silt and sedimentation from building and riding a new trail would be a none issue. This might reduce the amount of maintenance that might be required by the FS on the new maintainable not sustainable downhill trail ra is proposing to the FS.

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    rockman:

    My hope was that in the Mt. Elden area silt and sedimentation from building and riding a new trail would be a none issue. This might reduce the amount of maintenance that might be required by the FS on the new maintainable not sustainable downhill trail ra is proposing to the FS.
    You're reading too much into the sedimentation issue. As you know, all trails require maintenace whether or not they are sustainably built. My guess is the trail RA has laid out is intended to be a sustainable trail that will require periodic maintenance.

    How's the riding in Laramie?

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    Oh TD would you knock it off with this crap. Nobody is hiding Ginger and Epicrider would be the first to tell you that. He doesn't need permission or the secret handshake. He just hasn't ridden it so he doesn't have a gps track to update his map.
    rockman:

    I apologize for my misguided analysis. I tried to Google Ginger GPS track and was unable to find anything, that I could use to help bOm. If someone would give me the track I would be happy to post a map of the trail.

    If Dale wanted to give me all the GPS tracks for that area and you got me the tracks for the other trails not on his map I could do a more comprehensive map to help riders like Mike find some of those other great trails that have been discussed on MTBR.

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    You're reading too much into the sedimentation issue. As you know, all trails require maintenace whether or not they are sustainably built. My guess is the trail RA has laid out is intended to be a sustainable trail that will require periodic maintenance.

    How's the riding in Laramie?
    We did a ride in the Happy Jack area yesterday. Lots of buffed singletrack on old logging roads. We are going to check out Curt Dowdy next before heading to Nerderland, CO where we are going to hook-up with the Happy Trails guys.

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by big0mike View Post
    So I'm looking at Dale's Maps and I see most of your route. I see AZT, Schultz Tank trail isn't marked but it can only one of two trails. I see Little Gnarly (up is north to south?) but I don't see Ginger labeled. Is it even on his map or is it one of the unnamed trails around the south end of Little Gnarly?
    Just got back from an AZT ride with the lady, BROWN POW! Schultz tank is a cattle tank and not a trail. From the tank you take an old double track that connects with gnarly. once you are at the top of dry lake hills go south on single track for about 1/4 of a mile. You will come to an intersection where double track splits off to the south. Follow that up to a outlook/vortex where you can see flagstaff. From there the trail splits off left with some HAB and then goes into some sketchy steeps AKA ginger.

    Send a PM the next time you are up here and if you know the secret handshake I'll give you the real beta.

    *(its a high five don't tell anyone)

    Actually if anyone wants to ride that today I'm going to do this route or something similar this afternoon after lab meeting around 3:30. Send a PM.

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    and hope someday ra and 77Ranger will share the trail BETA with you.

    or i could just not be a ***** online, send them an email and ask nicely...

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by chollaball View Post
    or i could just not be a ***** online, send them an email and ask nicely...

    Don't be so hard on yourself..... you just play a **** on the internet

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Section 25 View Post
    You and I are not friends, never were. We are aqauintances, at best. I don't like you and I never did. You do nothing to improve riding for people in this town. From the day I arrived here you have slandered trail builders and the good people at the Forest Service. Often by writing articles in Flagstaff Live, where you could say anything you liked and not be held to any standard of truth. It was sleezy then and it is just as sleezy now.
    you know in your heart this isn't true (except for the part about my lame articles in Flag Live, which might be).

    and i forgive you for saying it. friend. [hug]
    "May your trails be winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view." - Ed Abbey
    http://rockychrysler.com/

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by m77ranger View Post
    Just got back from an AZT ride with the lady, BROWN POW! Schultz tank is a cattle tank and not a trail. From the tank you take an old double track that connects with gnarly. once you are at the top of dry lake hills go south on single track for about 1/4 of a mile. You will come to an intersection where double track splits off to the south. Follow that up to a outlook/vortex where you can see flagstaff. From there the trail splits off left with some HAB and then goes into some sketchy steeps AKA ginger.

    Send a PM the next time you are up here and if you know the secret handshake I'll give you the real beta.

    *(its a high five don't tell anyone)

    Actually if anyone wants to ride that today I'm going to do this route or something similar this afternoon after lab meeting around 3:30. Send a PM.
    77:

    Thanks for sharing the trail Beta with bOm, if you get a chance GPS the route and send me the GPX file. I also went to the lab today that is working on the cure for my mental illness. Professor Levy met with me and we went to the lab to review the status the progress of the new drug. He assured me progress is moving forward nicely and hopefully he will have a cure for me by Dec. 5.

    We arrived in Steamboat about an hour ago and hopefully will be using the Tram to access some of the trails in that area.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Who dumbed down easy/lower oldham and rocky ridge?-2012-09-07_13-21-10_207%5B2%5D.jpg  

    Who dumbed down easy/lower oldham and rocky ridge?-2012-09-07_13-21-56_109%5B1%5Dc.jpg  

    Who dumbed down easy/lower oldham and rocky ridge?-2012-09-07_13-11-32_902%5B1%5Db.jpg  

    Who dumbed down easy/lower oldham and rocky ridge?-2012-09-07_13-23-57_340%5B1%5Dd.jpg  

    Who dumbed down easy/lower oldham and rocky ridge?-001.jpg  


  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maadjurguer View Post
    I like Rocky Ridge. Ride your bike where you dab....dabbing makes you want to be better....wanting to be better keeps you coming back....coming back makes you ride more....riding more makes you better.....getting better makes you smile more....when you smile more you gripe less....griping less is good.
    nicely said.

  20. #70
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    Rocky ridge trail Improvements!!

    Rocky Ridge trails is sweet with the new trail work. Whoever put in all this work, you are awesome. I am sure there will be the nay sayers. If this trail is too "easy" now, go find other rocky trails to ride and bust your ass on. Rocky ridge is a connector trail at the lower end of the trail system. It should be ridable by most people, not a select few. The monsoon tore up this trail this summer, it needed help. Thanks again to whomever put in the man power.

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thickness View Post
    Rocky Ridge trails is sweet with the new trail work. Whoever put in all this work, you are awesome. I am sure there will be the nay sayers. If this trail is too "easy" now, go find other rocky trails to ride and bust your ass on. Rocky ridge is a connector trail at the lower end of the trail system. It should be ridable by most people, not a select few. The monsoon tore up this trail this summer, it needed help. Thanks again to whomever put in the man power.
    Ha, can't say I'm not sure it's you but the guy that has been grooming it has been banned from mtbr. You may spot him occassionaly out doing the greater good, perhaps with tools in hand on RR, Night Ranger, or L. Bear.

    Either way, naysayers will have no say as RR is not only a vital connector but is part of the AZ trail. It will, by definition, become a new trail. Perhaps class 4 or something much more friendly. And probably with the aid of mechanized equipment.

    Nice first post Thickness or is it section24?

  22. #72
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    "...the guy that has been grooming it has been banned from mtbr...'

    Yep, that's the one .

    As Rockman said, RR will become a connector -- and there are some interesting proposals on how that will be achieved.

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thickness View Post
    Rocky Ridge trails is sweet with the new trail work. Whoever put in all this work, you are awesome. I am sure there will be the nay sayers. If this trail is too "easy" now, go find other rocky trails to ride and bust your ass on. Rocky ridge is a connector trail at the lower end of the trail system. It should be ridable by most people, not a select few. The monsoon tore up this trail this summer, it needed help. Thanks again to whomever put in the man power.
    What? Rocky Ridge is not a connector trail. You can always ride the road of it is too hard. Rocky Ridge is supposed to be a nasty slog over rocks that you have to fight your way though. Hence the name. "Rocky Ridge". It is not called "smooth connector ridge".
    Joe
    '12 Santa Cruz Highball 29", '13 Santa Cruz Solo 27.5", '06 Rocky Mtn Switch 26" XC, AM, blah blah blah.. I just ride.

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoePAz View Post
    What? Rocky Ridge is not a connector trail. You can always ride the road of it is too hard. Rocky Ridge is supposed to be a nasty slog over rocks that you have to fight your way though. Hence the name. "Rocky Ridge". It is not called "smooth connector ridge".
    This guy has a point.

    Plus, after riding down Prom Night and Private Reserve and before the latest round of sanitation, it WAS a "smooth" connector trail back to the parking area. Rocky, but generally mild elevation gains and losses which keep you from getting crazy tired...perfect!
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    This guy has a point.

    Plus, after riding down Prom Night and Private Reserve and before the latest round of sanitation, it WAS a "smooth" connector trail back to the parking area. Rocky, but generally mild elevation gains and losses which keep you from getting crazy tired...perfect!
    It would be interesting to do a study to see how many people like the NEWLY improved Rocky Ridge trail. If the majority said they like it then we would all get a better idea if the recent changes made are appreciated by the masses. Obviously the 5%'ers are never going to be happy.

  26. #76
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    Rode up Rocky Ridge a few days ago and noticed the recent work...I don't think it changed the nature of the trail...more like buffing out some rough edges and filling in ruts...definitely made for a more flowy ride.

  27. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    It would be interesting to do a study to see how many people like the NEWLY improved Rocky Ridge trail. If the majority said they like it then we would all get a better idea if the recent changes made are appreciated by the masses. Obviously the 5%'ers are never going to be happy.
    I never a saw a problem with the old one. Last time I rode Rocky Ridge was in July. I probably won't be ridding it until May or June next year and I sure hope it was not too easy now. BTW.. Moving few rocks in 2-3 spots is not a concern for me. I will never even notice them, but changing the character from a rocky trail you have constant work the bike through for every foot you ride is the way the trail is. No easy pedaling on rocky ridge.

    And is from a guy on a 26" hardtail...
    Joe
    '12 Santa Cruz Highball 29", '13 Santa Cruz Solo 27.5", '06 Rocky Mtn Switch 26" XC, AM, blah blah blah.. I just ride.

  28. #78
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    Making an easy trail easier, just makes it faster. This stuff was always easy, now it's just faster, which will probably piss off a lot more hikers and spodes.
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

  29. #79
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    I like that connector to wasabi..I believe it's called Upper Oldham..oh no there it goes!
    Bender to AZDog: I'm not the best person to give advice on not riding!

  30. #80
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    I didn't mind some of the work down towards the west end of RR, basic erosion repair without neutering anything. Some of the wash crossings towards the east end however, I feel were a bit too sanitized.

    Yes it makes for a more flowy experience, but a few of those sections were very real challenges for me that I enjoyed.

    I understand a need for connectors and the need to make connectors more or less ride able....I just don't want RR to become homogenized, and another extension of schultz. I like its character and its challenges.

  31. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuctionGoat View Post
    I didn't mind some of the work down towards the west end of RR, basic erosion repair without neutering anything. Some of the wash crossings towards the east end however, I feel were a bit too sanitized.

    Yes it makes for a more flowy experience, but a few of those sections were very real challenges for me that I enjoyed.

    I understand a need for connectors and the need to make connectors more or less ride able....I just don't want RR to become homogenized, and another extension of schultz. I like its character and its challenges.
    well, it's now part of passage33 of the AZ trail. The Arizona Trail - Passage #33

    This is 2nd hand info but I believe the FS management plan for RR is to do a complete makeover so it's on par with the other segments (ie., grade, width, sustainability, etc.). I presume that's a class type 3 trail but the rugged nature of the west end of RR is going to change. For those who want the character to remain unchanged should start writing some letters or circulating petitions.

  32. #82
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    I got bored of that trail after I cleaned it over and over again in 2002 on my giant rincon se. Word on the street is that the night ranger and his new buddy with the glasses have been photographed doing un-authorized "trail improvements" on Schultz a few weeks ago. Anyone notice the changes?

  33. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by m77ranger View Post
    I got bored of that trail after I cleaned it over and over again in 2002 on my giant rincon se. Word on the street is that the night ranger and his new buddy with the glasses have been photographed doing un-authorized "trail improvements" on Schultz a few weeks ago. Anyone notice the changes?
    Yes, there has been quite a bit of grooming on Schultz but I wasn't sure if it was the ACE crew that did the reroute.

  34. #84
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    Great Rocky Ridge was one of my highlights on Elden. I had never cleared it,but it was always worth attempt. That first mile or so on west end was the best as it hit you really hard with climb and nasty rocks. Always took alot of work man handle the bike over and round the rocks/steps. Made you work for each one. Easily rideable on hardtail or rigid if the rider were skilled, but all HAB if you had no skills. This is unlike some of other trails that are so steep that they force you in more DH riding style.

    If I compare it ti lower brookbank... that is a trail they need to change. Steep and rocky and would be rideable it were just one of the two. And there is no alternate to top of Dry lake on that side of the Mtn. Weenie's should be directed to the road there and not make rocky ridge easier. Look I would love to be able ride up upper oldham to the top, but I am not looking to change that. I can't ride that trail, but I have the road so I don't want to change upper oldham. I am sure some really love the challenge in both directions. Also I think the hobbit forest has deteriorate from hardtail rideable to DH only, but I don't suggest changing it. I would rather see more HT guys ride it to re-establish a slower line. There used to be one there, but last time I rode there it seemed gone.

    Anyway rocky ridge was always a "must ride" for me due to is rocky character and IMHO one of the most fun parts of elden. I will be sad to see it smoothed out.
    Joe
    '12 Santa Cruz Highball 29", '13 Santa Cruz Solo 27.5", '06 Rocky Mtn Switch 26" XC, AM, blah blah blah.. I just ride.

  35. #85
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    It was the ACE crew that did the reroute on shultz as far as I know, with the intent of getting the trail out of the drainage. The new section IS rather smooth, but I think it will burn in and evolve into a more fun section. The location and lay out of the trail is great, I just wish there were a few more anchored rocks or features on it.

    I did see what appeared to be "random dude" cleaning up existing sections of Schultz by himself about a month ago. He did not have the PPE or look of a professional trail guy at all, and seemed nervous. After looking at this guys work, and what I see ACE crews doing.... there is a noticeable difference in approach and quality with the ACE stuff.

  36. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrwhlr View Post
    Making an easy trail easier, just makes it faster. This stuff was always easy, now it's just faster, which will probably piss off a lot more hikers and spodes.
    Oh awesome, we made it more dangerous for hikers. That's going to go over well in the long run...
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  37. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoePAz View Post

    If I compare it ti lower brookbank... that is a trail they need to change. Steep and rocky and would be rideable it were just one of the two. And there is no alternate to top of Dry lake on that side of the Mtn. Weenie's should be directed to the road there and not make rocky ridge easier. Look I would love to be able ride up upper oldham to the top, but I am not looking to change that. I can't ride that trail, but I have the road so I don't want to change upper oldham. I am sure some really love the challenge in both directions. Also I think the hobbit forest has deteriorate from hardtail rideable to DH only, but I don't suggest changing it. I would rather see more HT guys ride it to re-establish a slower line. There used to be one there, but last time I rode there it seemed gone.

    Anyway rocky ridge was always a "must ride" for me due to is rocky character and IMHO one of the most fun parts of elden. I will be sad to see it smoothed out.
    Again, great points. Upper Brookbank and Oldham are in dire need of work, rerouting and maintenance. It's always sad when the trail crews won't even touch the biggest known issues and the focus efforts in other areas. It's frustrating if you are a trail user.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  38. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Again, great points. Upper Brookbank and Oldham are in dire need of work, rerouting and maintenance. It's always sad when the trail crews won't even touch the biggest known issues and the focus efforts in other areas. It's frustrating if you are a trail user.
    FYI, and maybe those who are doing the heavy lifting will chime in but the plan is put U. Oldham and L. Brookbank out to pasture. Retired for good and the plan is for complete reroutes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    FYI, and maybe those who are doing the heavy lifting will chime in but the plan is put U. Oldham and L. Brookbank out to pasture. Retired for good and the plan is for complete reroutes.
    And that's been planned for what, like 10 years? Sorry, but the time has long since come that it should have been done, at the very least if RR and Schultz are getting so much care, not to mention new trails built up near Secret and Lookout...That's the "frustrating" part I was mentioning. It's not that trails don't need maint, but it seems that there are far more pressing projects.
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  40. #90
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    Trail and error

    I would hate to see Lower Brook "put out to pasture." If a new, alternate line is created (the typical 101 switchbacks that all look alike), I want to see Lower Brook left as is, NOT closed. I know the trail running community uses that trail a lot, not to mention hikers who find it an efficient way up to Dry Lake Hills as a solid, long power walk with really nice views along the way. Some I talk to in that user group are not happy when I tell them that it may be re-routed. I go up it with a rake a couple times a year to remove the rubble and that is all it really needs. It is one of the last true, steep grunts up the mountain. Some friends and I were just talking about the challenge today, in fact. It is a rare "trail" that demands a lot of focus and attention to make it up without dabbing. I haven't cleared the top section in like 12 years! But I do like the challenge. Going "easy" with a 2x9 is never easy, but many of us do love that heart pounding in the ears 15 min. effort! Lately I have been finding it is in decent shape going downhill too. So, to sum up, leave it there for us crazies who like that sort of thing. Never understood why when something is re-routed, the old line is not left open for the option. Besides, Lower Brook is just the old road bed from years ago, sort of nostalgic. As far as Schultz....man, I cringe every time I ride up it and see some of the old classic embedded rocks being removed, or sections being re-routed, like the portion past what was once the Lincoln logs (geez, whatever happened to those!) that is now a narrow strip that is begging for some head on collisions with no line of sight. The features often times slow people down enough to make the trail safer for all user groups. The Rocky Ridge issue bums many people out as well. I hoped that the Fort Valley style of trail stayed W. of Schultz Pass Road. You can have your AZT numbness. I have only been riding these trails for 15 years, and I know some have had way more years than I. When I first started riding here, I never thought I could possibly clean the Hobbit Forest or Wild and Wooly. Still recall the day I pieced them together! Seems that the trails change slightly year to year due to erosion, etc, but it seemed no biggie, the line moved a foot or two for a couple of years, then moved somewhere else, all confined in a reasonable "singletrack." Riding these trails on rigid 26ers was, and still is totally doable. Just ask the Mutants. With so many dual suspension bikes, 26 and 29, 4 inch up to 6+, the trails have only become "easier." Don't get me started on whoever cut the roots on the "drop in" to Sunset trail coming from the top of Schultz! WTF?! I am sure the tree appreciated that, and so what if you couldn't clean it from time to time? If you want smooth, more "sustainable" trail, go ride the FUTS or the road! By the way I do both, and it IS all good. I hate to see so much division here in Flag. We all ride for mostly the same reasons, in our own styles. We have world class trails right outside our door. So many people who have moved away (CO, CA, MT, ID) totally miss the DIVERSITY of trails here. Lots of our trails actually have rocks/log rides and keep you on point! So many awesome trails for so many different skill sets. Sorry, this is long, and just ranting at this point. So, in conclusion, keep Lower Brookbank open. Thanks for your time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    And that's been planned for what, like 10 years? Sorry, but the time has long since come that it should have been done, at the very least if RR and Schultz are getting so much care, not to mention new trails built up near Secret and Lookout...That's the "frustrating" part I was mentioning. It's not that trails don't need maint, but it seems that there are far more pressing projects.
    Jayem:

    I think RR is being maintained by the Night Ranger, wher it seems Shultz is being maintained by the landmanager or contract crew, if that makes any difference in your post. I don't think the Flagstaff area has an Adopt-a-Trail Program yet to help with those maintenance issues. I think the Night Ranger is all for an Adopt-a-Trail program, but until it is put in place he just trying to keep his skill set in shape.

  42. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoePAz View Post
    Great Rocky Ridge was one of my highlights on Elden. I had never cleared it,but it was always worth attempt. That first mile or so on west end was the best as it hit you really hard with climb and nasty rocks. Always took alot of work man handle the bike over and round the rocks/steps. Made you work for each one. Easily rideable on hardtail or rigid if the rider were skilled, but all HAB if you had no skills. This is unlike some of other trails that are so steep that they force you in more DH riding style.

    If I compare it ti lower brookbank... that is a trail they need to change. Steep and rocky and would be rideable it were just one of the two. And there is no alternate to top of Dry lake on that side of the Mtn. Weenie's should be directed to the road there and not make rocky ridge easier. Look I would love to be able ride up upper oldham to the top, but I am not looking to change that. I can't ride that trail, but I have the road so I don't want to change upper oldham. I am sure some really love the challenge in both directions. Also I think the hobbit forest has deteriorate from hardtail rideable to DH only, but I don't suggest changing it. I would rather see more HT guys ride it to re-establish a slower line. There used to be one there, but last time I rode there it seemed gone.

    Anyway rocky ridge was always a "must ride" for me due to is rocky character and IMHO one of the most fun parts of elden. I will be sad to see it smoothed out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jps View Post
    Don't get me started on whoever cut the roots on the "drop in" to Sunset trail coming from the top of Schultz! WTF?! I am sure the tree appreciated that, and so what if you couldn't clean it from time to time?
    This sounds horrible.....and I did not see it happen.....but I was riding by when the FS had a crew out there.....and it looked like they were about to cut at this spot.......I never said anything because I thought...."surely......they would not do that....."

    LMAO.......thanks for helping fill in a piece of the puzzle.

  44. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by jps View Post
    I would hate to see Lower Brook "put out to pasture." If a new, alternate line is created (the typical 101 switchbacks that all look alike), I want to see Lower Brook left as is, NOT closed. I know the trail running community uses that trail a lot, not to mention hikers who find it an efficient way up to Dry Lake Hills as a solid, long power walk with really nice views along the way. Some I talk to in that user group are not happy when I tell them that it may be re-routed. I go up it with a rake a couple times a year to remove the rubble and that is all it really needs. It is one of the last true, steep grunts up the mountain. Some friends and I were just talking about the challenge today, in fact. It is a rare "trail" that demands a lot of focus and attention to make it up without dabbing. I haven't cleared the top section in like 12 years! But I do like the challenge. Going "easy" with a 2x9 is never easy, but many of us do love that heart pounding in the ears 15 min. effort! Lately I have been finding it is in decent shape going downhill too. So, to sum up, leave it there for us crazies who like that sort of thing. Never understood why when something is re-routed, the old line is not left open for the option. Besides, Lower Brook is just the old road bed from years ago, sort of nostalgic. As far as Schultz....man, I cringe every time I ride up it and see some of the old classic embedded rocks being removed, or sections being re-routed, like the portion past what was once the Lincoln logs (geez, whatever happened to those!) that is now a narrow strip that is begging for some head on collisions with no line of sight. The features often times slow people down enough to make the trail safer for all user groups. The Rocky Ridge issue bums many people out as well. I hoped that the Fort Valley style of trail stayed W. of Schultz Pass Road. You can have your AZT numbness. I have only been riding these trails for 15 years, and I know some have had way more years than I. When I first started riding here, I never thought I could possibly clean the Hobbit Forest or Wild and Wooly. Still recall the day I pieced them together! Seems that the trails change slightly year to year due to erosion, etc, but it seemed no biggie, the line moved a foot or two for a couple of years, then moved somewhere else, all confined in a reasonable "singletrack." Riding these trails on rigid 26ers was, and still is totally doable. Just ask the Mutants. With so many dual suspension bikes, 26 and 29, 4 inch up to 6+, the trails have only become "easier." Don't get me started on whoever cut the roots on the "drop in" to Sunset trail coming from the top of Schultz! WTF?! I am sure the tree appreciated that, and so what if you couldn't clean it from time to time? If you want smooth, more "sustainable" trail, go ride the FUTS or the road! By the way I do both, and it IS all good. I hate to see so much division here in Flag. We all ride for mostly the same reasons, in our own styles. We have world class trails right outside our door. So many people who have moved away (CO, CA, MT, ID) totally miss the DIVERSITY of trails here. Lots of our trails actually have rocks/log rides and keep you on point! So many awesome trails for so many different skill sets. Sorry, this is long, and just ranting at this point. So, in conclusion, keep Lower Brookbank open. Thanks for your time.
    Paragraphs are nice and I could only read the first and last sentence, but apart from that, are you serious? Not sure...Lower Brookbank so bad...Technical and some tough steep/technical climbs like Upper Brookbank good. Piles of rubble are not an excuse for a trail though, especially when they are 8 foot wide piles of rubble. Not a trail. Just a pile of rocks where the trees do not happen to be growing.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Who dumbed down easy/lower oldham and rocky ridge?-picture-069u.jpg  

    Last edited by Jayem; 11-20-2012 at 06:35 AM.
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  45. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by jps View Post
    I would hate to see Lower Brook "put out to pasture." If a new, alternate line is created (the typical 101 switchbacks that all look alike), I want to see Lower Brook left as is, NOT closed. I know the trail running community uses that trail a lot, not to mention hikers who find it an efficient way up to Dry Lake Hills as a solid, long power walk with really nice views along the way. Some I talk to in that user group are not happy when I tell them that it may be re-routed. I go up it with a rake a couple times a year to remove the rubble and that is all it really needs. It is one of the last true, steep grunts up the mountain. Some friends and I were just talking about the challenge today, in fact. It is a rare "trail" that demands a lot of focus and attention to make it up without dabbing. I haven't cleared the top section in like 12 years! But I do like the challenge. Going "easy" with a 2x9 is never easy, but many of us do love that heart pounding in the ears 15 min. effort! Lately I have been finding it is in decent shape going downhill too. So, to sum up, leave it there for us crazies who like that sort of thing. Never understood why when something is re-routed, the old line is not left open for the option. Besides, Lower Brook is just the old road bed from years ago, sort of nostalgic. As far as Schultz....man, I cringe every time I ride up it and see some of the old classic embedded rocks being removed, or sections being re-routed, like the portion past what was once the Lincoln logs (geez, whatever happened to those!) that is now a narrow strip that is begging for some head on collisions with no line of sight. The features often times slow people down enough to make the trail safer for all user groups. The Rocky Ridge issue bums many people out as well. I hoped that the Fort Valley style of trail stayed W. of Schultz Pass Road. You can have your AZT numbness. I have only been riding these trails for 15 years, and I know some have had way more years than I. When I first started riding here, I never thought I could possibly clean the Hobbit Forest or Wild and Wooly. Still recall the day I pieced them together! Seems that the trails change slightly year to year due to erosion, etc, but it seemed no biggie, the line moved a foot or two for a couple of years, then moved somewhere else, all confined in a reasonable "singletrack." Riding these trails on rigid 26ers was, and still is totally doable. Just ask the Mutants. With so many dual suspension bikes, 26 and 29, 4 inch up to 6+, the trails have only become "easier." Don't get me started on whoever cut the roots on the "drop in" to Sunset trail coming from the top of Schultz! WTF?! I am sure the tree appreciated that, and so what if you couldn't clean it from time to time? If you want smooth, more "sustainable" trail, go ride the FUTS or the road! By the way I do both, and it IS all good. I hate to see so much division here in Flag. We all ride for mostly the same reasons, in our own styles. We have world class trails right outside our door. So many people who have moved away (CO, CA, MT, ID) totally miss the DIVERSITY of trails here. Lots of our trails actually have rocks/log rides and keep you on point! So many awesome trails for so many different skill sets. Sorry, this is long, and just ranting at this point. So, in conclusion, keep Lower Brookbank open. Thanks for your time.
    Personally, I can do without the diversity L. Brookbank offers but that's just me. Anyhow, you can put in your vote/opinion here: Mount Elden/Dry Lake (MEDL)realignment/maintenance

  46. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Oh awesome, we made it more dangerous for hikers. That's going to go over well in the long run...
    Ah, I see the job's now half done.
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

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    The ideas that have been thrown around so far are to make main system connections more user friendly in either direction and to create new technical options that make more sense and are built with a riders eye and not a jeep or hiker that wants to blaze straight up a hill side. I don't see or understand any conflict with this concept. Some of us just want a well thought out and designed trail system that will make our trail system that much more attractive to all of the trail users out there. Change isn't easy for most but we are at an important crossroad for the DLH and Elden Trail systems, speak up, get your opinion out there and be part of the change. We have an opportunity to make some really cool things happen for Flagstaff recreation right now.

  48. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Just a pile of rocks where the trees do not happen to be growing.
    I looked it up.

    That is the definition of "trail" in FLG.
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  49. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockychrysler View Post
    I looked it up.

    That is the definition of "trail" in FLG.
    Loose rocks vs solid tho
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