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  1. #1
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    Whiskey Off Road 2018 course changes.

    It appears Epic rides and the area land managers made some significant changes to the Whiskey Off Road course for 2018. At first glance the most obvious changes are the elimination of trail 48, cramp hill (323), and the creek crossing at Thumb Butte. Itís hard to imagine not doing the whiskey without grinding up trail 48 or suffering through that half mile of hell up cramp hill. Also, not crossing that creek with dozens of spectators encouraging you on while you try to not eat sh!t with tired legs and wet tires will be missed. But after that subsided I got encouraged by some of the new trails. Hereís my initial observations:

    Although grinding up copper basin PAST Aspen creek (393) doesnít sound all that appealing it does have its advantages. For one, we now get to ride past one of the most beautiful areas of Aspen trees in the Prescott area that I know of. This is towards the top of copper basin prior to the new forest road 9402D turnoff. The new connector that spits you out at the end of old whiskey 48 and the start of 260 is a fun little trail that most will enjoy. I donít think it even has a name or number yet (correct me if Iím wrong as I havenít been on it since last fall). And it should be noted that the nasty, ball bearing, twisty, loose steep section of 260 is still in place. The grind up to the lookout is still there as well as the rocky downhill of 366/9401J after the lookout. New trail 322 is a slightly elevated wooded trail. No cramp hill, but still decent. Trail 324 if a fast drop the hammer slight incline that should be a challenge at that point in the course. We then cross the paved thumb butte road to white rock trail (318). Now, 318 is fast flowing fun trail that will surely be welcome that close to the end of the race. It also has a slight technical downhill that may be a good replacement location for spectators who miss screaming at the creek crossing. Overall, I think it should be a fun race.
    Hereís the link to Epic Ridesí course info: 2018 course info

  2. #2
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    I've always thought that the WoR was a great party, and pretty fun ride on non-race weekend. Jamming 1000 riders on that course was a $hitshow unless you were very fast and got out front.
    I actually enjoyed the challenge of 'cramp hill' despite having only cleaned it two times in my whole life.

    All my bitching aside- the course modifications sound pretty sweet. White Rock holds fond memories of riding it as a teen in the early 90's.

    I might be convinced to give the SS 30-proof another go.
    Donít modify the trail to match your skills, modify your skills to match the trails.

  3. #3
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    I missed the race the last few time when it went up Wolverton. While I personally love climbing Wolverton I am not sure I would ever want to climb it during the Whiskey. Seemed too narrow to pass properly, but I never raced it. What I do miss however is the climbing single track after the bottleneck. To me that always broke up the climb from the road which I really despised, but accepted for 2 reasons. 1) need to get out of town, 2) need start to spread the field. Still I always felt the race "started" after the bottleneck anyway and everything before was prelude. The climb up 48 was a bear with the water bars, but the race was never supposed to be easy right? I kind of feel we are getting screwed on the climb as it will be more boring road climbing rather than "fun" single track climbing.

    As for the creek crossing late in race... Yeah it was ok, but never that great. I could deal without that. As for Cramp hill. I hated that climb and my first year cramp hill got me bad. Still it was really a fixture. The new trail is "better", but have we lost character?

    The 318 descent is good and I have ridden up that a few times. Should prove fun.
    Joe
    '18 Specialized Epic 29", Vassago Verhauen SS 29", '13 Santa Cruz Solo 27.5", XC, AM, blah blah blah.. I just ride.

  4. #4
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    The thing is, a couple years ago when they made the change from going west at the start up Copper Basin to going east from the start up Senator I felt the same way at that time. A bit disappointed at first with going up Senator and old Senator. But then I learned to enjoy the changes. The nice view(s) on old Senator, going down 330 and through White Spar at the beginning. And, I love the climb up Wolverton, especially where it gets tight up to the gate where everybodyís motivating each other to keep cranking. After some time, the changes werenít changes they just Became the Whiskey. So, Iím sure these changes will be the same situation. But for now, I will seriously miss going up 48 because for me that was a defining character of the Whiskey. But Iíll get over it.

  5. #5
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    Finding new unmarked Whiskey connector to 260

    Hereís a photo of each turn off and what to look for to get to the new trail that leads to 260. It (new connector to 260) is still unmarked as of 2-7-18.

    Photo 1. Turn left off of Copper Basin dirt road: 9402D. Once you start seeing white Aspen trees, this sign will be on your left. Follow it until you see a gate. Look for brown ďTrailĒ marker.

    Photo 2. Merge right to go around gate and continue up on 9402D

    Photo 3. When you get around the gate, merge right again to continue up on 9402D. Look for yellow ribbon tied to tree. Follow this up until it ends.

    Photo 4. Look for Utility equipment straight ahead. At this intersection turn right.

    Photo 5. Look for beat up Tr. 260 brown sign here. Turn left onto short connector. This will spit you out onto trail 260. Turn left once there. Follow this for approx. 1/4 mi.

    Photo 6. Keep your eyes open for this left turn off. Again, itís NOT marked and easy to miss. This is the new connector. Once youíre on this stay on it (keep right) and it will spit you out at the intersection of old Whiskey 48 and the start of 260. Good luck.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Whiskey Off Road 2018 course changes.-img_33461.jpg  

    Whiskey Off Road 2018 course changes.-9402d.jpg  

    Whiskey Off Road 2018 course changes.-img_33441.jpg  

    Whiskey Off Road 2018 course changes.-img_33511.jpg  

    Whiskey Off Road 2018 course changes.-img_33421.jpg  

    Whiskey Off Road 2018 course changes.-img_33411.jpg  


  6. #6
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    RE: Whiskey trail 318 caution

    Whiskey trail 318 from 332 down to 317 could be an accident waiting to happen. Itís a fairly fast downhill trending swooping straight with LOTS of fast, blind corners. It will entice Whiskey pre-riders to Strava king their riding here. Problem: lots of hikers and equestrians coming up from the opposite direction. This is within the very popular Thumb Butte rec area and parking lot. Again with multiple blind spots. There are tiny signs out there now informing the public about the Whiskey. Problem: they are very small and at ground level. The sign at 318/332 is likely to get missed or ignored by riders trying to make time IMO.

    My suggestion is to put two giant ďbillboardsĒ out there informing about whiskey pre-riders. At the very least raise up the existing signs. But a better idea is to temporarily put up two large obvious signs. Put one at 318/332 for riders going north and put one large sign at 318/317/316 for hikers to beware going south. And maybe another large one at the start of 318 at the White rock parking lot. My .02.

    Have fun.

  7. #7
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    Is there any way to take out singletrack that might be dangerous and add more dirt roads?

  8. #8
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    Whatever. When some rider from out of town strava kings into some hiker or horse will you still be this snarky?

    My apologies for trying to be pro-active and to potentially avoid mountain bikers getting vilified.

    Carry on. IDGAS.

  9. #9
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    Bob,
    If you are pre-riding you are not racing and care must be taken like all riding. Just a mater of fact and not something that needs signs in my opinion. Of course anyone can be stupid. I have run in to plenty of hikers going down 326 as well. That is just normal riding.
    Joe
    '18 Specialized Epic 29", Vassago Verhauen SS 29", '13 Santa Cruz Solo 27.5", XC, AM, blah blah blah.. I just ride.

  10. #10
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    Joe,
    A couple points. I live here and can tell you the section of 318 that Iím referring to and 326 and old whiskey 367 for that matter are different. Both of these are approximately a half mile while 318 is a full mile and a half. Additionally, both those trails have a lot more visibility, have sections that slow you down, and do not have the fast totally blind corners like 318 does. Trust me on this there are parts of 318 that if a rider is not checking his or her speed and a hiker or horse is right there itíll be ugly.

    Iím not worried about local Preskitt riders. Iím more concerned that an out of town rider riding it for the first time will be enticed by the natural flow of that trail and not realize how close the parking lot is and how many hikers use it opposite of the whiskey direction. It is typical for hikers to go south on 318 from the parking lot. I deliberately steer clear of that trail to avoid collisions because of the more than typical fast-blind spots mixed with hikers. I understand this is the case for this trail and every trail every day. But this is the first time multiple riders will be on it for multiple pre-rides from all over.

    Yes, it absolutely needs signs. It needs large signs with big words like WARNING and CAUTION. Especially on the north end (of 318) for hikers thinking about going south on 318. Maybe it will alert them enough to take another trail that day. And a large sign on the south end (332/318) cautioning riders to watch their speed ahead. The existing signs are too small.

    I hope Iím wrong and being overly cautious. But what harm could it do, at least for this first year of the new whiskey route to warn hikers and for bikers to check their speed here (318).

  11. #11
    I am Walt
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    So what exactly is this recently announced "optional" stuff? Sounds like they're giving participants the option to self-select into a "fun ride" sort of category, in order to hit some trails that were removed?


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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by waltaz View Post
    So what exactly is this recently announced "optional" stuff? Sounds like they're giving participants the option to self-select into a "fun ride" sort of category, in order to hit some trails that were removed?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I don't get it at all. I can self-select into a fun ride any day I want. I can do to the old course today if I want. By old I mean the 2014 course, 2016 course or an older course.

    If you are doing a "race" then that involves people doing the same course. If you are paying money what are you paying for? If the idea is just to ride around Prescott why pay Epic ride for that? I have paid Epic rides to race. I may not win, ok I know won't win, but I am competing and that is why I am parting my money. In fact this year I am going to Prescott and the Whiskey, but I will be just riding around with my girlfriend and not racing. Plan do some last years course from Whiskey Row and do a modified loop back into town. Casual pace and be able to see some of racers and spectate at cross over points. Then enjoy the party afterwards.
    Joe
    '18 Specialized Epic 29", Vassago Verhauen SS 29", '13 Santa Cruz Solo 27.5", XC, AM, blah blah blah.. I just ride.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoePAz View Post
    I don't get it at all. I can self-select into a fun ride any day I want. I can do to the old course today if I want. By old I mean the 2014 course, 2016 course or an older course.

    If you are doing a "race" then that involves people doing the same course. If you are paying money what are you paying for? If the idea is just to ride around Prescott why pay Epic ride for that? I have paid Epic rides to race. I may not win, ok I know won't win, but I am competing and that is why I am parting my money. In fact this year I am going to Prescott and the Whiskey, but I will be just riding around with my girlfriend and not racing. Plan do some last years course from Whiskey Row and do a modified loop back into town. Casual pace and be able to see some of racers and spectate at cross over points. Then enjoy the party afterwards.
    Agree on all points. I don't get it.


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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoePAz View Post
    I don't get it at all. I can self-select into a fun ride any day I want. I can do to the old course today if I want. By old I mean the 2014 course, 2016 course or an older course.

    If you are doing a "race" then that involves people doing the same course. If you are paying money what are you paying for? If the idea is just to ride around Prescott why pay Epic ride for that? I have paid Epic rides to race. I may not win, ok I know won't win, but I am competing and that is why I am parting my money. In fact this year I am going to Prescott and the Whiskey, but I will be just riding around with my girlfriend and not racing. Plan do some last years course from Whiskey Row and do a modified loop back into town. Casual pace and be able to see some of racers and spectate at cross over points. Then enjoy the party afterwards.
    "Race" is a word that has been tossed around for years. Look at AES or bikepacking races. How many are there to actually turn themselves inside out and race head-to-head?

    Epic Rides has built a customer base around the same idea, just aimed at wealthy mountain bikers that want an "experience". So the lawyers and the dentists pick out an event full of amenities and fanfare and a "backcountry" ride full of aid stations that do all but cup the balls. Some are showing up with goals in mind or to duke it out for a podium spot. A whole lot more are there to fart around and win at participant.

    Ultimately, that's at the heart of some of the changes. People complained that something was too hard, or the short route was too long, or they had to wait for riders ahead to clear a trail feature. Epic listened and adjusted the product.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevland View Post
    "Race" is a word that has been tossed around for years. Look at AES or bikepacking races. How many are there to actually turn themselves inside out and race head-to-head?
    AES are race/ride etc. Sure there are some that go all out at the front. I can't win, but I do ride these different from group rides. I ride as fast as I can for the distance. Minimal stops. I rarely go "head to head", but I do care where I place. I will be upset if some guy short cuts the course because he found something more fun. Even in AES which is casual you don't have people making up the course as they go. The idea is to follow the course even if it is not marked. Yeah if you are not feeling it and cut it short fine. That is a DNF. It happens.


    As for Epic and the Whiskey.... I can vote with my money and not race if I don't get the value from it.
    Joe
    '18 Specialized Epic 29", Vassago Verhauen SS 29", '13 Santa Cruz Solo 27.5", XC, AM, blah blah blah.. I just ride.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoePAz View Post
    As for Epic and the Whiskey.... I can vote with my money and not race if I don't get the value from it.
    FYI,
    AES offers full refunds if you are unhappy with the course. Just contact Raybum with any complaints and heíll take care of you.

    Also, check out the new course for PMC. It puts the monster in monstercross.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by dtownmtb View Post
    FYI,
    AES offers full refunds if you are unhappy with the course. Just contact Raybum with any complaints and heíll take care of you.

    Also, check out the new course for PMC. It puts the monster in monstercross.
    I can't make it that weekend so I will have to ITT it. Looks fun in a brutal sort of way. Just right for AES! I do have AES Flagstaff in my plans.
    Joe
    '18 Specialized Epic 29", Vassago Verhauen SS 29", '13 Santa Cruz Solo 27.5", XC, AM, blah blah blah.. I just ride.

  18. #18
    LDC is ded,deth by trollz
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob_Preskit View Post
    Whiskey trail 318 from 332 down to 317 could be an accident waiting to happen. Itís a fairly fast downhill trending swooping straight with LOTS of fast, blind corners. It will entice Whiskey pre-riders to Strava king their riding here. Problem: lots of hikers and equestrians coming up from the opposite direction. This is within the very popular Thumb Butte rec area and parking lot. Again with multiple blind spots. There are tiny signs out there now informing the public about the Whiskey. Problem: they are very small and at ground level. The sign at 318/332 is likely to get missed or ignored by riders trying to make time IMO.

    My suggestion is to put two giant ďbillboardsĒ out there informing about whiskey pre-riders. At the very least raise up the existing signs. But a better idea is to temporarily put up two large obvious signs. Put one at 318/332 for riders going north and put one large sign at 318/317/316 for hikers to beware going south. And maybe another large one at the start of 318 at the White rock parking lot. My .02.

    Have fun.
    There are signs everywhere on 318 and in that area now. I have a picture if them not sure how to post it.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoePAz View Post
    I missed the race the last few time when it went up Wolverton. While I personally love climbing Wolverton I am not sure I would ever want to climb it during the Whiskey.
    It didn't really climb up woverton singletrack, it climbed the very first portion of singletrack and then it turned up the double-track road to Quartz Mountain, which gave a lot of space to get spread out IMO. It was exactly what you want to see, a big wide climb where people could get spaced out and pass. Then it turned back to singletrack, but then it goes back to doubletrack for a while before 48.

    I'm really going to miss 48, I thought the technical challenge of that was perfect for the character of the race. To be able to clean all of 48 is an achievement, but totally possible. The Whiskey isn't supposed to be about easy or groomed IMO.

    Oh well, I can still hope that it will be cold, for some advantage! The colder the better.
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  20. #20
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    OK, quick question on the options.

    Trail 48 is an option and I'm assuming it is slower than just racing the route, correct?

    Cramp Hill Bypass: I'm confused on this one. Is the course using Cramp Hill? And the Bypass is the option? Meaning if you're truly racing the course you are riding Cramp Hill, correct? Which is the faster route?

    Thanks for the help.
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  21. #21
    I am Walt
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeguy0 View Post
    OK, quick question on the options.

    Trail 48 is an option and I'm assuming it is slower than just racing the route, correct?

    Cramp Hill Bypass: I'm confused on this one. Is the course using Cramp Hill? And the Bypass is the option? Meaning if you're truly racing the course you are riding Cramp Hill, correct? Which is the faster route?

    Thanks for the help.
    I can't speak to 48, but I believe it's slower.

    Regarding Cramp Hill, it is NOT on the official course, and it takes longer, time-wise, than the race course. This has been tested and validated by some strong riders. So if you're "racing", don't do Cramp Hill.
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  22. #22
    LDC is ded,deth by trollz
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    Its 7 minutes faster if you avoid cramp hill. Which you are allowed to do and still win the race, trail 48 is also slower, not sure minutes wise but you may be able to go uo that faster since everyone will obviously avoid that and you could beat a traffic jam. I really can not comprehend how a race that costs over a hundred dollars and only has 10 miles of trail would then allow bypasses to go around some sections. I have no idea how it sells out.

  23. #23
    LDC is ded,deth by trollz
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    It didn't really climb up woverton singletrack, it climbed the very first portion of singletrack and then it turned up the double-track road to Quartz Mountain, which gave a lot of space to get spread out IMO. It was exactly what you want to see, a big wide climb where people could get spaced out and pass. Then it turned back to singletrack, but then it goes back to doubletrack for a while before 48.

    I'm really going to miss 48, I thought the technical challenge of that was perfect for the character of the race. To be able to clean all of 48 is an achievement, but totally possible. The Whiskey isn't supposed to be about easy or groomed IMO.

    Oh well, I can still hope that it will be cold, for some advantage! The colder the better.
    Didnt you read Todds article about lowering the bar? He wants the course to be so easy you dont have to have any skill or fitness to finish it. He actually put this in print in a published article titled "Lowering the bar".
    Here is the article. I sent him a scathing email after reading this. To elevate the sport, lower the price, increase the difficulty and force people to oush their limits farther than they imagined. His response was one of the funniest tvings iv ever read......

    https://peopleforbikes.org/blog/elev...ort-lower-bar/

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaneDetroitCity View Post
    Didnt you read Todds article about lowering the bar? He wants the course to be so easy you dont have to have any skill or fitness to finish it. He actually put this in print in a published article titled "Lowering the bar".
    Here is the article. I sent him a scathing email after reading this. To elevate the sport, lower the price, increase the difficulty and force people to oush their limits farther than they imagined. His response was one of the funniest tvings iv ever read......

    https://peopleforbikes.org/blog/elev...ort-lower-bar/
    Next year they'll be letting e-bikes into the main event

  25. #25
    LDC is ded,deth by trollz
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsrt taco View Post
    Next year they'll be letting e-bikes into the main event
    Im one million percent willing to bet that there will at least be a category for them. It seems like thats new push from bike shops. Combined with "lowering the bar" and thats for sure where his mind is at. That has him licking his lips with glee. He can attract even more non racers to the Whiskey gran fondo. I asked him straight up is it a race or a fondo and he said its both.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaneDetroitCity View Post
    Im one million percent willing to bet that there will at least be a category for them. It seems like thats new push from bike shops. Combined with "lowering the bar" and thats for sure where his mind is at. That has him licking his lips with glee. He can attract even more non racers to the Whiskey gran fondo. I asked him straight up is it a race or a fondo and he said its both.
    So you will be racing? In a fondo? That's almost as bad as racing against a girl. I hope the killas back in Motown don't hear about this. .

    Seriously, what's wrong with adding levels to an event to increase participation and grow the sport? The title of that article is jacked. It's not about lowering the bar, it's about setting different bars for different riders to create an event and attract more people.
    Veni vidi velo!

  27. #27
    LDC is ded,deth by trollz
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    Quote Originally Posted by veloborealis View Post
    So you will be racing? In a fondo? That's almost as bad as racing against a girl. I hope the killas back in Motown don't hear about this. .

    Seriously, what's wrong with adding levels to an event to increase participation and grow the sport? The title of that article is jacked. It's not about lowering the bar, it's about setting different bars for different riders to create an event and attract more people.
    I suggest you find someone else to troll.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaneDetroitCity View Post
    I suggest you find someone else to troll.
    Yeah, you're probably right. You make it far too easy. And to show you how hurt I am at your neg rep, I gave you a green chiclet in return.

    In addition to poking a bit of fun at you, I asked a serious question which you chose to ignore. What's wrong with adding events for average riders to a racing venue?
    Veni vidi velo!

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeguy0 View Post
    OK, quick question on the options.

    Trail 48 is an option and I'm assuming it is slower than just racing the route, correct?

    Cramp Hill Bypass: I'm confused on this one. Is the course using Cramp Hill? And the Bypass is the option? Meaning if you're truly racing the course you are riding Cramp Hill, correct? Which is the faster route?

    Thanks for the help.
    The "bypass" is left up 322 if I'm reading the course map correctly and is more of a straight-shot to the top of 392, it's not very steep.

    This also means they cut out Garden Grove, which was a cool little technical section before cramp hill. The challenge was to clean Garden Grove, which required some muscle and power, and then not cramp on cramp hill. All those kinds of things were totally within the character of the race and IMO, it's losing that character with these changes.
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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaneDetroitCity View Post
    Didnt you read Todds article about lowering the bar? He wants the course to be so easy you dont have to have any skill or fitness to finish it. He actually put this in print in a published article titled "Lowering the bar".
    Here is the article. I sent him a scathing email after reading this. To elevate the sport, lower the price, increase the difficulty and force people to oush their limits farther than they imagined. His response was one of the funniest tvings iv ever read......

    https://peopleforbikes.org/blog/elev...ort-lower-bar/
    I can't believe I'm coming out of retirement to respond to thls. I think you're reading way too much into this article, and I think the headline is way misleading. I'm going to wait to pass judgment specifically on this year's WoR. (And full disclosure, I actually tried to get a refund after I heard about the changes, and told called me up personally to encourage me to do the race, and if I did not enjoy it, he'd comp me an entry into the Tour of the White Mountains.) But to suggest that Todd is kowtow to the masses by making the course easier I think is off base. In general, with the exception of the 24 Hrs in OP, Epic Rides have been challenging, both in terms of length as well as technically. Specifically, I'd say the WoR is not a beginner's level trail. I have not read all the comments, and I've only heard this in passing, but my understanding is that the changes this year were out of his hands. And if I'm not mistaken, the race has sold out in year's past, so selling more entries--i.e., building a following by catering to beginners--was not an issue. And Todd has always been a voice for making cycling a sport for all. But to suggest he made the course easier to attract beginners is false.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

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    Guess it all depends on who you speak with, CO. The story I got was the medium distance was too long. Lots of complaining about bottlenecking led to "creating a funnel effect" from pavement, to dirt road, to double track, to singletrack. The creek crossing was something the FS wouldn't allow and Epic was forced to accept that change and adjust.

    Have fun

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Observer View Post
    I can't believe I'm coming out of retirement to respond to thls. I think you're reading way too much into this article, and I think the headline is way misleading. I'm going to wait to pass judgment specifically on this year's WoR. (And full disclosure, I actually tried to get a refund after I heard about the changes, and told called me up personally to encourage me to do the race, and if I did not enjoy it, he'd comp me an entry into the Tour of the White Mountains.) But to suggest that Todd is kowtow to the masses by making the course easier I think is off base. In general, with the exception of the 24 Hrs in OP, Epic Rides have been challenging, both in terms of length as well as technically. Specifically, I'd say the WoR is not a beginner's level trail. I have not read all the comments, and I've only heard this in passing, but my understanding is that the changes this year were out of his hands. And if I'm not mistaken, the race has sold out in year's past, so selling more entries--i.e., building a following by catering to beginners--was not an issue. And Todd has always been a voice for making cycling a sport for all. But to suggest he made the course easier to attract beginners is false.
    He says it in his own words!!!!!! He wanted to attract beginners into the race in order to make a profit. Directly quoting Todd Sadow in the article. Having ridden the course several times in past two weeks. Its beginner level. Nothing difficult about riding on pavement, 9420d, yes 260 is sketchy, then climb on a gravel road, climb on more gravel road, then descend on beginner trails with about 12 seconds of rocks, then more beginner trail till the finish. Zero degree of difficulty just like he planned it.

    It would be easy to solve this

    Make a 50 race and tour, and 30 race and tour. The race course eliminates the bypasses, they go off first. The tour uses the bypasses they go off second. Same aid stations for both, lets the racers race and the grand fondo riders grand fondo.

    How you can read that article and see anything other than LOWERING THE BAR so everyone can feel like they did something is beyond me. He literally said mtn biking is riding some dirt path. NO ITS NOT. Mtn biking is a challenge. Make better riders not easier trails and courses. Im told the whiskey started out as a hard ass race and each year it gets easier and easier. Now there is about 10 miles of trail in a 50 mile race. All but 2 miles of that trail is exactly that, dirt paths. The real racers stopped entering so he had to fill that void with sad saps who think they are doing something hard. He should have lowered the price and kept it hard and it would still sell out.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaneDetroitCity View Post
    He says it in his own words!!!!!! He wanted to attract beginners into the race in order to make a profit. Directly quoting Todd Sadow in the article. Having ridden the course several times in past two weeks. Its beginner level. Nothing difficult about riding on pavement, 9420d, yes 260 is sketchy, then climb on a gravel road, climb on more gravel road, then descend on beginner trails with about 12 seconds of rocks, then more beginner trail till the finish. Zero degree of difficulty just like he planned it.

    It would be easy to solve this

    Make a 50 race and tour, and 30 race and tour. The race course eliminates the bypasses, they go off first. The tour uses the bypasses they go off second. Same aid stations for both, lets the racers race and the grand fondo riders grand fondo.

    How you can read that article and see anything other than LOWERING THE BAR so everyone can feel like they did something is beyond me. He literally said mtn biking is riding some dirt path. NO ITS NOT. Mtn biking is a challenge. Make better riders not easier trails and courses. Im told the whiskey started out as a hard ass race and each year it gets easier and easier. Now there is about 10 miles of trail in a 50 mile race. All but 2 miles of that trail is exactly that, dirt paths. The real racers stopped entering so he had to fill that void with sad saps who think they are doing something hard. He should have lowered the price and kept it hard and it would still sell out.
    I hear Epic Rides is hiring for a route planning and public relations position, but I'm sure that they already have your resume..

  34. #34
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    Welcome to AZ. Lane, now please go home.
    Quote Originally Posted by me;
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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaneDetroitCity View Post
    ...{lots of stuff}...

    Why are you so emotionally invested in this? You're shouting at clouds.

    So far all I've seen you do is bitch, moan, and rag on the plethora of stuff "you don't like", be it AES, WoR, Tucson trails, Prescott trails, Sedona trails, and its traffic....

    No one is forcing you do any of this, and you don't get to decide what mountain biking is, and isn't.

    I personally don't disagree with your dissatisfaction of WoR- Todd isn't offering a product I have an interest in; I actually raced the 1st, 3rd, 4th and 7th(?)or maybe 8th(?) years. I entered again a few years ago (the year of the god-awful snow) but bailed because I got sick.
    My current opinion is that the old course was better, I don't dig crowds, and I can hang at the expo for free. The entry fees for virtually all bike races are (IMO) out of control. I don't vent, I vote....with my wallet.
    Todd doesn't need your entry fee. There's a metric $hit-ton of folks that really dig the whole thing and will happily pony up for the experience.

    Rather than get my panties in a twist over it, I just....don't.
    Donít modify the trail to match your skills, modify your skills to match the trails.

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    No, the WoR course was more or less has been the same from year 1, and actually become more difficult three years ago, when the went up Senator Highway. This is the first year they they apparently made significant changes (and according to most, have made it an easier course).

    Again, I'll wait to pass judgement until I actually ride the course. But "lowering the bar" does not mean the same thing as "making mt biking more inclusive."

    And for the record, I actually would prefer mt biking was exclusive. The trails are crowded enough.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  37. #37
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    Anybody who complained about the new course (the one up Senator Highway) is delusional.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  38. #38
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    I did the whiskey 3 years in a row. last year of the "25", Then the 50 in the rain and snow and then the 50 the year later. Not easy by any means. I did not like the change this year bypassing good single track in favor of the road climb. I felt there were better ways to deal with the bottleneck. I made my voice known by works and by not entering this year.

    That said I like Todd has created and event with different distances and effort levels. I know I would never had even considered doing the 50 if I had not already tried the 25 the year before. At that time the 25 kicked my butt hard. A year later the 50 was my first "big long" ride and I survived. So it was a good step forward. Look Lane I have met you in person so I know some of this just how you come off on the 'net, but really I have tired of your complaining. It just complaining and not being helpful. Just complain complain complain. You are solid rider, but still have alot to learn about riding and racing out here. It is easy to throw stones, but you have no context or depth to your comments about riding here.
    Joe
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  39. #39
    LDC is ded,deth by trollz
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    Quote Originally Posted by ARandomBiker View Post
    Why are you so emotionally invested in this? You're shouting at clouds.

    So far all I've seen you do is bitch, moan, and rag on the plethora of stuff "you don't like", be it AES, WoR, Tucson trails, Prescott trails, Sedona trails, and its traffic....

    No one is forcing you do any of this, and you don't get to decide what mountain biking is, and isn't.

    I personally don't disagree with your dissatisfaction of WoR- Todd isn't offering a product I have an interest in; I actually raced the 1st, 3rd, 4th and 7th(?)or maybe 8th(?) years. I entered again a few years ago (the year of the god-awful snow) but bailed because I got sick.
    My current opinion is that the old course was better, I don't dig crowds, and I can hang at the expo for free. The entry fees for virtually all bike races are (IMO) out of control. I don't vent, I vote....with my wallet.
    Todd doesn't need your entry fee. There's a metric $hit-ton of folks that really dig the whole thing and will happily pony up for the experience.

    Rather than get my panties in a twist over it, I just....don't.
    Stop making stuff up to fit your narrative. Ive only "complained" about one 2 mile section of one aes event. Literally. Ive never even been to Sedona or used the word sedona in a post EVER. Now how about you stick to the facts. You are making shit up plain and simple.

  40. #40
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    Thats funny everyone on the site is sick of your pissing and moaning but you never complain?

  41. #41
    LDC is ded,deth by trollz
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    Im probably the only or one of the only people who have ridden this years complete course on this thread. God forbid i have an opinion about it. All i heard was how this race is some billy bad ass race course. Its not. Get over it.

    Ill leave you guys to backslap each other and act like some ancient roman warriors who crossed the red sea to ride your bikes in Arizona. Its just bike riding, stop taking yourselves so serious, there are much bigger things in life. You guys act like giving my opinion is some class one felony and i stole your virginity.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaneDetroitCity View Post
    Its just bike riding, stop taking yourselves so serious, .





    Might want to take that advice.
    Quote Originally Posted by me;
    Of all the paths you take in life, make sure that most of them are dirt.

  43. #43
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    It seems everyone of these threads with that man arguing against and then eventually arguing against what he was arguing about becomes a train wreck.

  44. #44
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    This is a forum about bikes! how dare you bring locomotives into this!

  45. #45
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    Lower the bar.....

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaneDetroitCity View Post
    Stop making stuff up to fit your narrative. Ive only "complained" about one 2 mile section of one aes event. Literally. Ive never even been to Sedona or used the word sedona in a post EVER. Now how about you stick to the facts. You are making shit up plain and simple.
    Quote Originally Posted by LaneDetroitCity View Post
    Its Prescott, there is no gnar. The Prescott gnar is a running joke around here. Its called Sedona.
    Hmmm... I wonder what else you've been wrong about? Or are you just making stuff up to fit your narrative?

    Lane, tweaking you is easierthan a Prescott trail ride. HTFU and ride, man. I hear you're fast.. Dissing the events you're riding in doesn't make you faster. It just makes you sound like a whiner.
    Veni vidi velo!

  47. #47
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    To quote a recent music review, "smug, unexplored sense of intellectual superiority is pretty much all he has to offer"




  48. #48
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    or, a legend in his own mind ...... but he never complains.

  49. #49
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    As of post #41 in this thread (see tagline):

    "LDC is ded, deth by trollz"

    I, for one, would like to say a few correctly spelled words about Lane, may he rest in peace. Dude was fast. He never complained. He wasn't with us very long, and never met many of us, but he still managed to piss most of us off. Takes a special man to do that. You were that man, Lane. I know you're up in heaven looking down on all of us, getting ready to piss on all our heads and tell us it's raining, because that's the kind of guy you are, er... were. In you, Lane, Motown sent us its best, not counting Michael Jackson, and we weren't good enough to receive you and appreciate your awesomeness. I'm certain that as you approach the Great Singletrack in the Sky, you'll be yelling, "STRAVA!" St. Peter will step aside, swing wide those gates, and welcome home God's own KOM.

    One last thing, compadre: Can I have your van, dude?
    Veni vidi velo!

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaneDetroitCity View Post
    Stop making stuff up to fit your narrative.
    I don't have a narrative. I don't race, I'm not fast or particularly hard- I ride SS, but on a weak-ass spinny ratio so I don't have to walk very much. I got nothing to prove.

    What I do notice, is a sudden, sharp uptick in the drama and teenage-like angst in an otherwise previously very friendly and pretty chill subforum. It seems like every one of your posts is pretty much you bitching about something that existed long before you rolled in, and decided you needed to comment on it.
    Like youre the best thing to happen to Arizona mountain biking and you need to educate us poor scrubs.

    Who has the narrative , again?


    I've ridden with a few guys that have ridden with you and say you're not a bad guy in person, but man you sound like a d!ckhead on the internet. I suppose we all spout off from time to time with an unpopular opinion, but maybe balance it out with something that isn't "I'm awesome and you guys are all B-team"
    Donít modify the trail to match your skills, modify your skills to match the trails.

  51. #51
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    to anyone who claims the 50 isnt difficult... ride it faster. fifty miles on an mtb is not easy and if it is you just need push harder.

    i rode the course and it seemed a good route to me. the old route was more techy i have been told which would be fine. but all and all i am looking forward to saturday and maybe even more so sunday due to Kate Courtney being in the women's pro event. proper fast that gal is !

    enjoy the ride to everyone who is riding.

  52. #52
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    Whiskey Off Road 2018 course changes.

    So howíd it go?

    My wife and I had a great time. No backing up after the start climb but that didnít bother me last year anyway. Good times and great weather


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  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeguy0 View Post
    So howíd it go?

    My wife and I had a great time. No backing up after the start climb but that didnít bother me last year anyway. Good times and great weather


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    The final descent was pretty good, missed the challenge of 48 like I thought, but the additional trail to 318 was pretty good, as well as White Rock. Itís never ďeasyĒ. Overall about 25 min faster for me from last year in a bit worse shape. Donít think anyone is complaining though, I think the descent maintained the character. Crazy hot for those of us from cooler climates, but I think salt was the key.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  54. #54
    I am Walt
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    More race/ride reports? I missed it due to helping my daughter move in SoCal, but not sure what I missed due to the conflicting reports on the new course.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Ride more; post less...

  55. #55
    Ahhh the pain....
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    How'd the race go for you yesterday Lane?

  56. #56
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    I think one reason it works is the new 324 with 318 section flows pretty well with some opportunities to air it out a bit and pop off stuff. You can ride it all very fast. The rest of the decent like the initial off the overlook is still nasty as ever. So the descent ends up pretty balanced.

    Iíll take back some of what Iíve said about the technical on Prescott trails, sure, has a long way to go, but riding 333 today I saw how itís been expanded and now the trail intenionally routes over and through rock sections with some easier b-lines. A few too many grade reversals for me, but definitely showing some promise and miles ahead of what we were able to get approved 10 years ago. Ive heard good things about recent stuff in Emmanuel Pines too.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raybum View Post
    How'd the race go for you yesterday Lane?
    Looks like he was well ahead of the pack in this photo-
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  58. #58
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    I'm sure he dropped the girls on the first climb.

  59. #59
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    Any pics of Lane on the podium?
    Quote Originally Posted by me;
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  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    I think one reason it works is the new 324 with 318 section flows pretty well with some opportunities to air it out a bit and pop off stuff. You can ride it all very fast. The rest of the decent like the initial off the overlook is still nasty as ever. So the descent ends up pretty balanced.

    Iíll take back some of what Iíve said about the technical on Prescott trails, sure, has a long way to go, but riding 333 today I saw how itís been expanded and now the trail intenionally routes over and through rock sections with some easier b-lines. A few too many grade reversals for me, but definitely showing some promise and miles ahead of what we were able to get approved 10 years ago. Ive heard good things about recent stuff in Emmanuel Pines too.
    You back here again or just come for the 50 mile suffering?

  61. #61
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    Where is LDC?

    ďHe made life takers and heart breakers out of themĒ

    ďAny race I have a ride I'm winning. You can start engraving trophies nowĒ

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by big0mike View Post
    You back here again or just come for the 50 mile suffering?
    50 miles is suffering, some red dirt today, a little more riding tomorrow.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  63. #63
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    In his own words, "LDC is ded. Deth by trollz. "
    Veni vidi velo!

  64. #64
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    Here is the podium for the 50 proof-

    1 593 Brian Gordon 03:16:33 Men's Open 28
    2 580 Adam Wadsworth 03:17:16 Mesa AZ Men's Open 33
    3 520 Jared Becker 03:18:28 Men's Open 31

  65. #65
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    The podium is 5 deep for Whiskey. Still does not change anything.
    Joe
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  66. #66
    Ahhh the pain....
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    Don't get me started about those silly 5 spot podiums...

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raybum View Post
    Don't get me started about those silly 5 spot podiums...
    How could that even possibly be a point of contention?
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  68. #68
    chasing simplicity
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    Curious that Detroit Lane is radio silent on this thread...or maybe not? Certainly stirring it up in other threads, like ďPost your lightweight bike.Ē Wherefore art thou Lane? Podium pics please!
    I know what it's like to be dead. "To Die & Live In LA."

  69. #69
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    Hasn't MTB always had five spot podiums?
    I know at world cups they have always been five spot. We'll all my life anyhow but that isn't that long a while.
    he smelt of triflow, had a nice smile, with kind eyes... so I married him

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattMay View Post
    Curious that Detroit Lane is radio silent on this thread...or maybe not? Certainly stirring it up in other threads, like ďPost your lightweight bike.Ē Wherefore art thou Lane? Podium pics please!

    From a thread in "endurance racing" Forum

    Note... I bolded the text below.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaneDetroitCity View Post
    You kep mentioning 48. 48 was in the race if you would have chosen to ride it! You obviously rode right past it on purpose. 324 is a climb not a dh.



    The peoples times were faster because they obviously avoided 48 and cramp hill. Otherwise the winner of the 50 proof would have been top 15 pro.

    Still dont understand how you can call it a race and have optional choices on the course. After riding the whole pro course 3 times that course provided zero stimulus to me and i didnt enter. Supported 4 pros in the pro races and got 3rd, 14th, 42 in mens and 5th womens. We ate good.

    Congrats to everyone who raced and thanks for helping make it a huge event.
    So I guess it was too easy for him.
    Joe
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  71. #71
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    He said he was going for the win. he settled for the whining.
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  72. #72
    chasing simplicity
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    Selective stimulus syndrome. Maybe it's a thing.
    I know what it's like to be dead. "To Die & Live In LA."

  73. #73
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    I talked with one of you briefly at the front of the 50 start right before we headed off about ďwhere is LDC?Ē. I must say I havenít payed attention to him, but Iíd be interested to know who they really are. Can probably find some common themes between those race numbers possibly and ask around.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  74. #74
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    I think the part you didn't bold is more important to why he chose not to *race* and that is this statement:

    "Still dont understand how you can call it a race and have optional choices on the course."

    I used to race here in SoCal back in the early 90's for the fun/camaraderie of the event but I have to agree with LDC if that's why he chose not to do the Whiskey 50. All that pavement riding on a MTB race sounds pretty silly as well.
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  75. #75
    LDC is ded,deth by trollz
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    I said why i didnt race, the course sucked, the price was ridiculous, the competition took shortcuts, i dont like the promoter, i pre rode the course 3 times and never once felt excited. However thats just me complaining, right? When i said i wanted to race and win the whiskey that was BEFORE they made shortcuts, BEFORE i rode the course, and BEFORE having an email exchange with the promoter that left me saying ill never give that guy a penny of my money. I got more enjoyment helping my friends in the pro race, making new industry connections, and riding with world cup riders before and after the race. FOR FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE. ZERO DOLLARS SPENT. LOTS OF EQUITY GAINED.

    Now carry on trolling me and lets see how many of you i can get banned just by giving me perspective. In case you havent realized your opinion means absolutely nothing to me. All your little stupid comments just further my point that the majority of you are more into making jokes on the forum than riding. Nobody on this thread had an iota of a chance of beating me in the Whiskey anyways, majority of you dont even race, and even larger majority dont even ride. Now carry on trolling me, i just had to give you some fresh bait

    Hey Ray, how was your race?

    Hey Joe, what was your time in the race? Oh wait,you didnt race because you voted with your wallet LOL!! Sounds like the course was too hard and thats just your excuse.
    Ill be out riding, youll still be trolling mtbr. Mtbr, where people who dont ride come to pretend they do.

  76. #76
    LDC is ded,deth by trollz
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    Quote Originally Posted by k2rider1964 View Post
    I think the part you didn't bold is more important to why he chose not to *race* and that is this statement:

    "Still dont understand how you can call it a race and have optional choices on the course."

    I used to race here in SoCal back in the early 90's for the fun/camaraderie of the event but I have to agree with LDC if that's why he chose not to do the Whiskey 50. All that pavement riding on a MTB race sounds pretty silly as well.
    For 150 bucks i can drive to st george, or Durango, eat and camp for a week and ride 200 miles of TRAILS. Why would i do that though when i can pay 150 dollars to race 10 miles of beginner trails and line some promoters pocket.
    Ill be out riding, youll still be trolling mtbr. Mtbr, where people who dont ride come to pretend they do.

  77. #77
    mtbr member
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaneDetroitCity View Post
    For 150 bucks i can drive to st george, or Durango, eat and camp for a week and ride 200 miles of TRAILS. Why would i do that though when i can pay 150 dollars to race 10 miles of beginner trails and line some promoters pocket.
    Sounds to me like you have no idea what it costs to promote and put on a race. Nobody is getting rich off that's for sure.

    The camaraderie part is why I like the enduro format.

  78. #78
    LDC is ded,deth by trollz
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    Sounds to me like you have no idea what it costs to promote and put on a race. Nobody is getting rich off that's for sure.

    The camaraderie part is why I like the enduro format.
    Actually i know exactly what it costs to promote and put on a race. Thats why i dont do it. The cost itself wasnt the issue its what you get for that cost. I will be paying that much to race several times this year, all the races will have between 68 and 92 miles of hard trails, and less than a mile of pavement or gravel road, not 10 miles of beginner trails and 38 of road, with 2 miles of blown out dirt bike trail. The atmosphere at the Whiskey is trash also. Having people handing out alcohol on the course is beyond ridiculous. Thats not racing, thats grand fondoing.
    Ill be out riding, youll still be trolling mtbr. Mtbr, where people who dont ride come to pretend they do.

  79. #79
    LDC is ded,deth by trollz
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    Add this up. This is what i was doing during the race.

    Free suspension rebuild from fox, he added a volume spacer, gave me 3 seal kits and a quart of oil. FREE

    Two Maxxis 29x2.6 forekasters to test and review possibly starting a business relationship. FREE

    4 sets of ESI grips because i met the owner with a sponsored friend. FREE

    A 54 star ratchet and a bottle of star ratchet grease from DT SWISS because i met the rep with my sponsored friend. FREE

    A new pair of gloves and shoes from Pearl Izumi because i exchanged my old ones on "warranty". FREE

    A pair of Assos prototype bibs because hes my friends neighbor in Carlsbad. FREE

    A case of Squirt dry lube because my friend is sponsored by them. FREE

    A bottle of cbd oil. FREE

    6 pairs of prototype world cup racing tires because i helped a wc racer with handups. FREE

    A Poc helmet, gloves, sunglasses because i helped a wc racer with handups. FREE

    A Dakine fanny pack because i helped a wc racer with handups. FREE

    A case of enduro bites energy bars because i helped a wc racee with handups. FREE

    Spoke to the owner of a small bike brand and am getting a demo bike for a week to test and review.FREE

    Got to ride a fezzari signal peak for 1.5 hrs with prototype parts because he was staying at the same house as the wc rider i helped with handups. FREE

    Got to ride a BIXS fs race bike because he is Swiss teamates with the wc rider i helpe with handups. FREE

    Got to spend 7 hrs riding with UCI wc and cape epic podium riders before and after the race. FREE

    Got to spend time talking to the Felt engineer because he was supporting his wife during the pro race. FREE

    Made friends for life with a bunch of people. FREE

    Had lunch and dinner paid for by Dt Swiss twice for helping their wc rider with handups. FREE

    Helped the Stans mechanics get the bikes ready for the races. FREE

    Got to help my two friends from back home with handuos in the pro race and watch them succeed. FREE

    Got to help the guu whos house im renting get ready and setup his bike for the 30. FREE

    My dog got to interact with a bunch of dogs and people instead of sit in the house all day. FREE

    Helped the massage lady carry her table back to her car and get a couple free massages and a riding friend in Prescott. FREE

    Got to see some friends i made in Tucson. FREE

    After you add all that up, let me know if it was worth not paying 150 to race a terrible race course.
    Ill be out riding, youll still be trolling mtbr. Mtbr, where people who dont ride come to pretend they do.

  80. #80
    bikes don't have motors
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaneDetroitCity View Post

    Now carry on trolling me and lets see how many of you i can get banned just by giving me perspective. .




    I'd guess the number to be zero.
    Quote Originally Posted by me;
    Of all the paths you take in life, make sure that most of them are dirt.

  81. #81
    LDC is ded,deth by trollz
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    Quote Originally Posted by life behind bars View Post
    I'd guess the number to be zero.
    Whiskey Off Road 2018 course changes.-screenshot_2018-05-02-15-57-34.png
    1 is greater than zero, and with you that will make 2.
    Ill be out riding, youll still be trolling mtbr. Mtbr, where people who dont ride come to pretend they do.

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaneDetroitCity View Post
    1 is greater than zero, and with you that will make 2.



    Yet here I am, are you really so delicate that you have to cry to the mods about every perceived insult? What a sad little world you must be confined in. And just an fyi, raybum is not banned but I'm sure that everyone is really impressed that you are resorting to fascist tactics to try to silence your critics. Are you leaving AZ. soon?
    Quote Originally Posted by me;
    Of all the paths you take in life, make sure that most of them are dirt.

  83. #83
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    Cute

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaneDetroitCity View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Screenshot_2018-05-02-15-57-34.png 
Views:	40 
Size:	76.9 KB 
ID:	1196211
    1 is greater than zero, and with you that will make 2.
    What are you trying to say here?

  85. #85
    LDC is ded,deth by trollz
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    Quote Originally Posted by life behind bars View Post
    Yet here I am, are you really so delicate that you have to cry to the mods about every perceived insult? What a sad little world you must be confined in. And just an fyi, raybum is not banned but I'm sure that everyone is really impressed that you are resorting to fascist tactics to try to silence your critics. Are you leaving AZ. soon?
    Ray is banned for starting parody accounts. I get threatened to be banned multiple times for people complaining about my posts all the time. People give me a bunch of negative reps every day, people report my posts everyday. Dont break the rules and you have nothing to worry about. 9 reported posts in 3 days im sure you are getting close. Notice a bunch of your posts got deleted? Keep on trolling me and making personal attacks and youll suffer the consequences. Its the same rules for everyone.
    Ill be out riding, youll still be trolling mtbr. Mtbr, where people who dont ride come to pretend they do.

  86. #86
    bikes don't have motors
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaneDetroitCity View Post
    Ray is banned for starting parody accounts. I get threatened to be banned multiple times for people complaining about my posts all the time. People give me a bunch of negative reps every day, people report my posts everyday. Dont break the rules and you have nothing to worry about. 9 reported posts in 3 days im sure you are getting close. Notice a bunch of your posts got deleted? Keep on trolling me and making personal attacks and youll suffer the consequences. Its the same rules for everyone.


    Only 9?
    Quote Originally Posted by me;
    Of all the paths you take in life, make sure that most of them are dirt.

  87. #87
    bikes don't have motors
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaneDetroitCity View Post
    Ray is banned for starting parody accounts. I get threatened to be banned multiple times for people complaining about my posts all the time. People give me a bunch of negative reps every day, people report my posts everyday. Dont break the rules and you have nothing to worry about. 9 reported posts in 3 days im sure you are getting close. Notice a bunch of your posts got deleted? Keep on trolling me and making personal attacks and youll suffer the consequences. Its the same rules for everyone.





    Attention K-Mart shoppers!!!! Raybum is not banned!!! He is not away at banned camp!!! He was given a posting vacation!!! Apparently whatever he did was not henous enough a crime to warrant the death sentence. Praise Ollie!
    Quote Originally Posted by me;
    Of all the paths you take in life, make sure that most of them are dirt.

  88. #88
    Meatbomb
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    What are 'handups'?

  89. #89
    IPA tester
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    For those who don't have GPS in their van and feel home sick:

    From Prescott, Arizona

    Get on I-17 N from AZ-69 S and AZ-169 N
    42 min (31.8 mi)
    Continue on I-17 N. Take I-40 E, I-44 E, I-70 E, I-69 N, ... and I-75 N to W Larned St in Detroit. Take exit 1B from M-10 S/John C Lodge Fwy
    28 h (1,951 mi)
    Follow W Larned St and Woodward Ave to Cadillac Square
    4 min (0.4 mi)
    Detroit
    "We'll ride it until they pave it."

    -Urban Yeti
    Dirttreaders.com

  90. #90
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    Ldc is a pathological liar...Iím sure Detroit doesnít want him back.

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillbo View Post
    What are 'handups'?
    Cycling Skills: The Feed Zone - Tips for Hand Ups
    2018 Intense Tracer
    2017 Intense Primer
    2016 Santa Cruz 5010

  92. #92
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    Just when somebody back East was going, "Now why don't he write?" Here he is back from the "ded", better than ever.

    The Resurrection has been awesome, LDC. Can't wait forthe Ascension!
    Veni vidi velo!

  93. #93
    LDC is ded,deth by trollz
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    Come on guys i know you can do better than this!! Wheres the personal attacks, the insults, the harassment, the parody accounts. I just fed you guys a huge piece of fresh albacore tuna. I know you guys can come up with better stuff than this. Im kinda disappointed this is all you guys can come up with. Im hungry, I need to eat some big fish. Should i put more flavor? Or are you too busy actually riding your bikes and will come with something better soon.

    How did the race go for all of you? Any pictures from the race? What was your finishing times? I bet they werent faster than mine
    Ill be out riding, youll still be trolling mtbr. Mtbr, where people who dont ride come to pretend they do.

  94. #94
    LDC is ded,deth by trollz
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillbo View Post
    What are 'handups'?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10pmPiK8pi8
    Ill be out riding, youll still be trolling mtbr. Mtbr, where people who dont ride come to pretend they do.

  95. #95
    bikes don't have motors
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillbo View Post
    What are 'handups'?



    It's kind of like a domestique's or a maid's duty.
    Quote Originally Posted by me;
    Of all the paths you take in life, make sure that most of them are dirt.

  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaneDetroitCity View Post
    Come on guys i know you can do better than this!! Wheres the personal attacks, the insults, the harassment, the parody accounts. I just fed you guys a huge piece of fresh albacore tuna. I know you guys can come up with better stuff than this. Im kinda disappointed this is all you guys can come up with. Im hungry, I need to eat some big fish. Should i put more flavor? Or are you too busy actually riding your bikes and will come with something better soon.

    How did the race go for all of you? Any pictures from the race? What was your finishing times? I bet they werent faster than mine
    I feel sorry for your dog, to have to the shoulder the burden of being the only life form on Earth that is forced to tolerate whatever it is your persona devolved from but you are a classic example of clinical psychosis.

  97. #97
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    But I hear he's a really nice guy in person....

  98. #98
    Meatbomb
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    Persona wise.... He's a Douche. Face to Face.....probably still a douche. Unknown because no one knows ..... other than TrailDoc.

  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhxChem View Post
    But I hear he's a really nice guy in person....

    Which one?
    Quote Originally Posted by me;
    Of all the paths you take in life, make sure that most of them are dirt.

  100. #100
    Elitest thrill junkie
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaneDetroitCity View Post
    Actually i know exactly what it costs to promote and put on a race. Thats why i dont do it. The cost itself wasnt the issue its what you get for that cost. I will be paying that much to race several times this year, all the races will have between 68 and 92 miles of hard trails, and less than a mile of pavement or gravel road, not 10 miles of beginner trails and 38 of road, with 2 miles of blown out dirt bike trail. The atmosphere at the Whiskey is trash also. Having people handing out alcohol on the course is beyond ridiculous. Thats not racing, thats grand fondoing.
    You don't really know what "beginner trails" are.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

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