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  1. #1
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    While I'll never own a Specialized: Take 2

    Will these guys learn their lesson?

    https://www.facebook.com/epixgear
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  2. #2
    parenting for gnarness
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Observer View Post
    Will these guys learn their lesson?

    https://www.facebook.com/epixgear

    I recently heard that Revelate was forced to change their name due to S's overreaching, and this article backs it up.

    Specialized's disastrous trademark case is unnecessary to defend the brand - VeloNews.com


    I have never had an adult spec bike. A few shoes etc. that are ok, but I almost never buy their gear anymore cause you can do better and cheaper from other brands, since they never discount. I really like their 16inch hotrock. I liked their 20inch when i bought it, but now its becoming nothing but frustration. In S's defense, kids' bikes are not built for real riding and my daughter is riding it hard. But, their BS way of making hard-to-find or semi-unique parts and forcing you to get them through their shops is making me hate them. Parts on their website I can not order, must order via a store and both Landis and DNA marked it up over S's own website -- normally the LBS making some extra vs. the internet is fine, but S's whole thing is all their dealers offer the same price so in this case the website said $13, Landis charged me $20, DNA $25 for a dang deraileur hanger on a $350 bike.

    Anyway, this experience coupled with their being a great big corporate *****BAG and I will do everything I can never to spend a dime with them again.

  3. #3
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    its always going to be about big business trying to squash any and all smaller competition. just take a look at amazon and walmart

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by longhairmike View Post
    its always going to be about big business trying to squash any and all smaller competition. just take a look at amazon and walmart
    Who is John Galt?
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  5. #5
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    Don't we have better things to do? Do we really need another "specialized sucks" thread? If you don't like them, don't buy their stuff and they will go out of business. End of story. Move on, nothing to see here.

  6. #6
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    [QUOTE=chollaball;10871749]I recently heard that Revelate was forced to change their name due to S's overreaching, and this article backs it up.

    Specialized's disastrous trademark case is unnecessary to defend the brand - VeloNews.com


    I have never had an adult spec bike. A few shoes etc. that are ok, but I almost never buy their gear anymore cause you can do better and cheaper from other brands, since they never discount. I really like their 16inch hotrock. I liked their 20inch when i bought it, but now its becoming nothing but frustration. In S's defense, kids' bikes are not built for real riding and my daughter is riding it hard. But, their BS way of making hard-to-find or semi-unique parts and forcing you to get them through their shops is making me hate them. Parts on their website I can not order, must order via a store and both Landis and DNA marked it up over S's own website -- normally the LBS making some extra vs. the internet is fine, but S's whole thing is all their dealers offer the same price so in this case the website said $13, Landis charged me $20, DNA $25 for a dang deraileur hanger on a $350 bike.

    Anyway, this experience coupled with their being a great big corporate *****BAG and I will do everything I can never to spend a dime with them again.[/QU



    I get that you don't like their business practices and bullying, but they make a damn good bike. I have ridden many spec bikes and love them and I am getting kind of tired of hearing people bash their product.

    Your pissed at spec because a bike shop charges more for the product than another bike shop.

    Your opinion of their product, except the lowest end mountain bike they make, doesn't carry much weight. I don't think they will miss your dime.
    I'm sick of all the Irish stereotypes, as soon as I finish this beer I"m punching someone

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by aevanlloyd View Post
    Don't we have better things to do? Do we really need another "specialized sucks" thread? If you don't like them, don't buy their stuff and they will go out of business. End of story. Move on, nothing to see here.
    There is always the option to NOT click on a MTBR topic that you do not care to read about. YOU are in control of what you read and do not read. Just saying.

    Specialized Threatens Another Small Business: Epix Gear | riding against the grain

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by bik_ryder View Post
    There is always the option to NOT click on a MTBR topic that you do not care to read about. YOU are in control of what you read and do not read. Just saying.

    Specialized Threatens Another Small Business: Epix Gear | riding against the grain
    Wow, I wasn't aware of that. I'll be sure to keep that in mind.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by aevanlloyd View Post
    Don't we have better things to do? Do we really need another "specialized sucks" thread? If you don't like them, don't buy their stuff and they will go out of business. End of story. Move on, nothing to see here.
    ^^^^missing the point.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  10. #10
    parenting for gnarness
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    [QUOTE=sfgiantsfan;10872008]
    Quote Originally Posted by chollaball View Post
    I recently heard that Revelate was forced to change their name due to S's overreaching, and this article backs it up.

    Specialized's disastrous trademark case is unnecessary to defend the brand - VeloNews.com


    I have never had an adult spec bike. A few shoes etc. that are ok, but I almost never buy their gear anymore cause you can do better and cheaper from other brands, since they never discount. I really like their 16inch hotrock. I liked their 20inch when i bought it, but now its becoming nothing but frustration. In S's defense, kids' bikes are not built for real riding and my daughter is riding it hard. But, their BS way of making hard-to-find or semi-unique parts and forcing you to get them through their shops is making me hate them. Parts on their website I can not order, must order via a store and both Landis and DNA marked it up over S's own website -- normally the LBS making some extra vs. the internet is fine, but S's whole thing is all their dealers offer the same price so in this case the website said $13, Landis charged me $20, DNA $25 for a dang deraileur hanger on a $350 bike.

    Anyway, this experience coupled with their being a great big corporate *****BAG and I will do everything I can never to spend a dime with them again.[/QU



    I get that you don't like their business practices and bullying, but they make a damn good bike. I have ridden many spec bikes and love them and I am getting kind of tired of hearing people bash their product.

    Your pissed at spec because a bike shop charges more for the product than another bike shop.

    Your opinion of their product, except the lowest end mountain bike they make, doesn't carry much weight. I don't think they will miss your dime.
    Do you think a product can stand alone from the biz practices that go into that product?
    Do you know anything about their policies of price consistency?
    Do you know anything about how they operate their dealer channel?
    Did you read the part where i acknowledged the limitations on kids bikes but said I am pissed at their policies?
    Are you one of those guys who likes marketing materials and big hugs from people paid to like you?

  11. #11
    I am Bob
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    Quote Originally Posted by aevanlloyd View Post
    Wow, I wasn't aware of that. I'll be sure to keep that in mind.
    I'm kinda hoping that you'll keep posting here to reinforce the "move along, nothing to see here" message

    Someone set me straight thought... Here's how I see it...
    A company has success, copyrights some stuff, hires lawyers to protect it (who likely get to bill Spesh. when they find someone who might be infringing on the copyright).

    Spesh. definitely looks overzealous here, and seem to be shooting themselves in the foot, but doesn't the new business owner have some responsibility to take caution of the name they choose? If it's close to a copyright of a big company shouldn't they take care to name it something else, or get permission to use it? Shouldn't be assumed that Spesh lawyers are going to go after anything that's close since they're lawyers?
    I'm glad the guy gets to keep the shop name in the end, and that the big Spesh boss has apologized, but I'm not quite following the outrage. I'm with Cholla, and the main reason I avoid Spesh is the business model of having to buy everything through a Spesh shop and the lack of price flexibility, but people should know by now that lawyers exist and will do what ever they can to generate bills for their clients. Maybe new business adventurers should consult a thesaurus?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by chongoman View Post
    I'm kinda hoping that you'll keep posting here to reinforce the "move along, nothing to see here" message

    Someone set me straight thought... Here's how I see it...
    A company has success, copyrights some stuff, hires lawyers to protect it (who likely get to bill Spesh. when they find someone who might be infringing on the copyright).

    Spesh. definitely looks overzealous here, and seem to be shooting themselves in the foot, but doesn't the new business owner have some responsibility to take caution of the name they choose? If it's close to a copyright of a big company shouldn't they take care to name it something else, or get permission to use it? Shouldn't be assumed that Spesh lawyers are going to go after anything that's close since they're lawyers?
    I'm glad the guy gets to keep the shop name in the end, and that the big Spesh boss has apologized, but I'm not quite following the outrage. I'm with Cholla, and the main reason I avoid Spesh is the business model of having to buy everything through a Spesh shop and the lack of price flexibility, but people should know by now that lawyers exist and will do what ever they can to generate bills for their clients. Maybe new business adventurers should consult a thesaurus?
    From: Specialized, Day Three. | riding against the grain

    Part of the problem, which they perhaps could not have anticipated, is that ASI stepped in and made Specialized look childish and unprofessional. This is more or less how the situation has played out:

    1992:

    ASI / Fuji starts producing a bike called the Roubaix. They pursue legal trademark protection.

    2003:

    Specialized wants to produce a bike called the Roubaix, and does a licensing agreement with ASI.

    After 2003:

    Specialized registers Roubaix in Canada. According to ASI, this violates the licensure agreement.

    2013:

    Cafe Roubaix: ”I’ve always wanted to run a bike shop.”

    Specialized: ”That’s my ball.”

    Cafe Roubaix: ”Uhh, can we play together?”

    Specialized: ”No. Give me my ball. I’m going home.”

    Cafe Roubaix: ”Are you sure we can’t play together?”

    Specialized: ”Give me the ball or I’ll beat you up.”

    Cafe Roubaix: (Shouts to all of its friends on the playground): “Hey, Specialized is being a bully.

    100,000 Internet People: ”Hey, Specialized, go pick on someone your own size.”

    ASI: ”Actually, that’s my ball. Specialized, if you’re not careful, we’ll take it away from you. Cafe Roubaix, you can play with the ball.”

    Specialized: ”Yeah, uhh…Cafe Roubaix, you can play with the ball.”

    Maybe Specialized was going to respond differently sooner–and maybe not. Maybe their hand was forced by the internet or by ASI. But now, their gesture of contacting Cafe Roubaix seems less like an earnest effort to put this behind themselves, and more a grim acknowledgment of the fact that the internets have turned against them. I still give Mike Sinyard credit for making that call–whatever the motivation, it’s an important gesture.

    But this is why it is so critical that Specialized not drop the ball now. They have to strike while the iron’s hot and make some significant changes to their policies, in a public way, to show that they have learned their lesson, and will play nice on the playground. So go back to the Open Letter, read it again, and realize that you’re just at Step 1, Specialized.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by chongoman View Post
    I'm kinda hoping that you'll keep posting here to reinforce the "move along, nothing to see here" message

    Someone set me straight thought... Here's how I see it...
    A company has success, copyrights some stuff, hires lawyers to protect it (who likely get to bill Spesh. when they find someone who might be infringing on the copyright).

    Spesh. definitely looks overzealous here, and seem to be shooting themselves in the foot, but doesn't the new business owner have some responsibility to take caution of the name they choose? If it's close to a copyright of a big company shouldn't they take care to name it something else, or get permission to use it? Shouldn't be assumed that Spesh lawyers are going to go after anything that's close since they're lawyers?
    I'm glad the guy gets to keep the shop name in the end, and that the big Spesh boss has apologized, but I'm not quite following the outrage. I'm with Cholla, and the main reason I avoid Spesh is the business model of having to buy everything through a Spesh shop and the lack of price flexibility, but people should know by now that lawyers exist and will do what ever they can to generate bills for their clients. Maybe new business adventurers should consult a thesaurus?
    I'm just digging how these Epix guys are jumping on the "whoa, it's me. Looks what Spec is doing to us now, after they tried to close down that small shop in Canada."

    Yea, I agree companies should do their due diligence. But damn, talk about a stretch, at least in the LBSes case.

    I'm just crossing my fingers that they don't go after Epic Rides. And speaking of Epics, anybody remember when 24 Hrs of Adrenalin sued the folks who put on the 24 Hrs of Moab, claiming their race format was patented/trademarked/whatever?
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Observer View Post
    I'm just digging how these Epix guys are jumping on the "whoa, it's me. Looks what Spec is doing to us now, after they tried to close down that small shop in Canada."

    Yea, I agree companies should do their due diligence. But damn, talk about a stretch, at least in the LBSes case.

    I'm just crossing my fingers that they don't go after Epic Rides. And speaking of Epics, anybody remember when 24 Hrs of Adrenalin sued the folks who put on the 24 Hrs of Moab, claiming their race format was patented/trademarked/whatever?
    I kinda hope they go after Epic Rides. Can you imagine the support the cycling community would show the Epic Rides crew if Special-Ed tried to sue them?

    It would be EPIC and might be the ultimate demise of Special-Ed!

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by bik_ryder View Post
    I kinda hope they go after Epic Rides. Can you imagine the support the cycling community would show the Epic Rides crew if Special-Ed tried to sue them?

    It would be EPIC and might be the ultimate demise of Special-Ed!
    "Alllez, Allez!!!!!!!!!!! That would make me so happy, I might hop a rock.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Observer View Post
    whoa, it's me
    ?????
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails While I'll never own a Specialized: Take 2-words1.jpg  


  17. #17
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    Specialized certainly seems to be stepping in it lately. Likely time for a corporate rethink of strategy.

    I don't currently own a Specialized bike. However, I've owned a bunch and every one has been rad. Don't agree with all their business practices, love their bikes.

  18. #18
    parenting for gnarness
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Observer View Post
    "Alllez, Allez!!!!!!!!!!!
    you cant say that, I trademarked it

  19. #19
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    While I'll never own a Specialized: Take 2


  20. #20
    Elitest thrill junkie
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    Like this?

    While I'll never own a Specialized: Take 2-gedc0155s.jpg
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  21. #21
    Got a suspension fork
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    They made a classy apology.

    Mike Sinyard?s Open Letter to the Industry
    ONE SHOX, ONE GEAR, LOTS of FUN! www.TrailFu.com My Rides

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by randyharris View Post
    They made a classy apology.

    Mike Sinyard?s Open Letter to the Industry
    This IS a good apology, a real apology. I've been quiet through this because, while I proudly own two excellent Specialized bikes, babies are starving and women are battered around the world. I just can't see how this is important.

    But mountain bikers are a socially and politically aware community, so this debate needs to happen. A professional and personal response to the issue, with a reasonable explanation of events, ends it for me.

    There will be another story like this in a few months. I hope I am on the trail at the time.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by papatini View Post
    This IS a good apology, a real apology. I've been quiet through this because, while I proudly own two excellent Specialized bikes, babies are starving and women are battered around the world. I just can't see how this is important.

    But mountain bikers are a socially and politically aware community, so this debate needs to happen. A professional and personal response to the issue, with a reasonable explanation of events, ends it for me.

    There will be another story like this in a few months. I hope I am on the trail at the time.
    You make perfect sense, and I agree with your assessment.

    Further, I too own Specialized and Specialized only. I think they offer and continue to offer bikes right on the cutting edge of what's possible in bikes. For example my new S-Works Epic just replaced the Camelbak.

    I really believe what the underlying issue of people not liking Specialized is, humans predisposition to root for the underdog. The big kid on the block always has and always will have its detractors. Jeff Gordon, The Lakers, The Yankee's and Kobe Bryant all have their haters.

    Do we as a community honesty think that our favorite bike manufacturer wouldn't do a porportianally similar thing to protect their trademark(s).

    Do they ask for a premium for their bikes? Yes. Are their concept stores more expensive than they should be? Perhaps. When I personally weight all these things out, I vote yes with a big red "S".

    Steve
    Drinkin the S-Works Kool-aid

  24. #24
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    This IS a good apology, a real apology.
    Two questions should arise with regard to his "good and real apology."

    Did he offer it solely because of the bad publicity, or did he really consider what he did, regret it, and apologize? In other words...is this apology simply more marketing?

    The other question is, will his behavior (with regard to the way he aggressively pursues real and perceived copyright infringements) change?

    If he just gave this one guy a pass because of the publicity, and continues to go after everyone else and nothing changes, what good is it?

    Talk is cheap. Lets see how he and his company act this out.

    ...babies are starving and women are battered around the world. I just can't see how this is important.
    Amen to that.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by chipolopolo View Post
    For example my new S-Works Epic just replaced the Camelbak.
    You wear an Epic on your back? How big is the hydration bladder?

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