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  1. #1
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    What's the deal with LBS?

    I was thinking of going tubless on my 29er since itís work out great on my 26er. Iíve had no flats in months when before I would flat at least every ride. My chick was at a LBS (not our regular shop) and the Stans 29er conversion was $84.99. Stans has it on their site for $64.99, which Iím assuming, is the true retail. Are some LBS jacking prices up that much over retail or is Stans undercutting/back-dooring the dealer and discounting the product after selling it to the dealers? Either way sucks.

    A similar experience was a another LBS (not our regular shop again, he was out) quoted me $10 more on seals than the company that made the fork seal.

    Whatís the deal?

  2. #2
    Meatpuppet
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    damn shop owners................lol
    My Third Eye Has A Cataract

  3. #3
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    go ghetto, ffro

    Quote Originally Posted by AKA Monkeybutt
    I was thinking of going tubless on my 29er since itís work out great on my 26er. Iíve had no flats in months when before I would flat at least every ride. My chick was at a LBS (not our regular shop) and the Stans 29er conversion was $84.99. Stans has it on their site for $64.99, which Iím assuming, is the true retail. Are some LBS jacking prices up that much over retail or is Stans undercutting/back-dooring the dealer and discounting the product after selling it to the dealers? Either way sucks.

    A similar experience was a another LBS (not our regular shop again, he was out) quoted me $10 more on seals than the company that made the fork seal.

    Whatís the deal?
    Use a 24" tube and flay, use the stans and you're good. Be sure to use the thickest sidewall you can get (tubeless tires are best).

  4. #4
    sprocket
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKA Monkeybutt
    I was thinking of going tubless on my 29er since itís work out great on my 26er. Iíve had no flats in months when before I would flat at least every ride. My chick was at a LBS (not our regular shop) and the Stans 29er conversion was $84.99. Stans has it on their site for $64.99, which Iím assuming, is the true retail. Are some LBS jacking prices up that much over retail or is Stans undercutting/back-dooring the dealer and discounting the product after selling it to the dealers? Either way sucks.

    A similar experience was a another LBS (not our regular shop again, he was out) quoted me $10 more on seals than the company that made the fork seal.

    Whatís the deal?

    umm...go back to your regular shop and keep it to yourself so everybody else gets screwed?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by yetisurly
    umm...go back to your regular shop and keep it to yourself so everybody else gets screwed?

    I wasnít originally going to post the names of the shops since I did not know the true retail of the items and the manufacturers may have been undercutting the retailer to sell direct. I did talk to notubes (the mfg. of Stans) and true retail on the 29er conversion is $64.99 so the bike shop (starts with Swiss and is on Bell rd.) is marking it up an additional $20.

    Iím not posting the name of the other shop since I donít know true retail on the fork seals.

    Iíll be going ghetto tubless on the 29er since the shop I can trust doesnít have the conversion kit in stock. Iíll also be going to get my tires there since I always pay a fair price.

  6. #6
    Meatpuppet
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKA Monkeybutt
    Iíll be going ghetto tubless on the 29er .

    Thats my boy
    My Third Eye Has A Cataract

  7. #7
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    Earning a reasonable profit through ownership of an LBS is very hard to do. There may be a few established shops that make a decent amount of profit, but I suspect most shops are at or near the edge of going under.

    My experience is that most LBS's have "high prices". However, virtually every shop I have ever been too will, without hesitation, agree to a 15%-20% discount simply because I asked. I have no issue with any LBS charging any price they want. They need to do what they need to do to stay in business. Ask for a discount. NO SHOP OR SHOP EMPLOYEE SHOULD EVER GET INSULTED OR UPSET WHEN SOMEONE ASKS FOR A DISCOUNT, AS LONG AS THEY ARE POLITE ABOUT IT. AND, NO CUSTOMER SHOULD EVER GET UPSET IF THEIR REQUEST FOR A DISCOUNT IS POLITELY REFUSED. I simply never understood why so many people seem to get upset.

    I don't know if this will make any difference to any of you, but I strongly suspect that most shop owners are far from getting rich from their bicycle shop business.

    Shop owners, please chime in here.
    I AM JUST A JERK

  8. #8
    sprocket
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirdir
    Earning a reasonable profit through ownership of an LBS is very hard to do. There may be a few established shops that make a decent amount of profit, but I suspect most shops are at or near the edge of going under.

    My experience is that most LBS's have "high prices". However, virtually every shop I have ever been too will, without hesitation, agree to a 15%-20% discount simply because I asked. I have no issue with any LBS charging any price they want. They need to do what they need to do to stay in business. Ask for a discount. NO SHOP OR SHOP EMPLOYEE SHOULD EVER GET INSULTED OR UPSET WHEN SOMEONE ASKS FOR A DISCOUNT, AS LONG AS THEY ARE POLITE ABOUT IT. AND, NO CUSTOMER SHOULD EVER GET UPSET IF THEIR REQUEST FOR A DISCOUNT IS POLITELY REFUSED. I simply never understood why so many people seem to get upset.

    I don't know if this will make any difference to any of you, but I strongly suspect that most shop owners are far from getting rich from their bicycle shop business.

    Shop owners, please chime in here.
    That is probably the most asinine thing you have ever come up with. If a professional shop owner easily gives into a 15-20 percent discount just because he is asked by his 'good customer', he might as well close the door and go home for 4 hours every afternoon as well. If one respects and expects a 'local bike shop' to exist in the future, they would not ask for a discount.

  9. #9
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    Personally, I never ask for a discount. It's hard to make a living out there when competing with the internet, etc..etc...I like supporting my local shops. But I think $64.99 (retail from NoTubes) and bumping to price up over $20 extra is a pretty big percentage for bumping up the price. Nothing like a 30% ish increase...

    The difference they said was that NoTubes probably doesn't sell as many 29er rimstrip kits so the price was higher. Who knows, maybe their distributor charges them more and they don't know the price is the same between the 26ers & 29er kits from the manufacturer.
    ~~~

  10. #10
    Ouch, I am hot!
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    Quote Originally Posted by yetisurly
    That is probably the most asinine thing you have ever come up with. If a professional shop owner easily gives into a 15-20 percent discount just because he is asked by his 'good customer', he might as well close the door and go home for 4 hours every afternoon as well. If one respects and expects a 'local bike shop' to exist in the future, they would not ask for a discount.
    First off, I never said I respect local bike shops. Indeed, I don't respect a single one.
    Second, what is the difference between a "professional shop owner" and a non-professional shop owner?"
    Third, I am not and never shall be a "good customer."
    Finally, this is not the most asinine thing I have ever come up with. Did you read the post wherein I compliment Walt for his passion?
    I AM JUST A JERK

  11. #11
    sprocket
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirdir
    First off, I never said I respect local bike shops. Indeed, I don't respect a single one.
    Second, what is the difference between a "professional shop owner" and a non-professional shop owner?"
    Third, I am not and never shall be a "good customer."
    Finally, this is not the most asinine thing I have ever come up with. Did you read the post wherein I compliment Walt for his passion?

    I don't respect any either.

    Most shops in the valley are what are called "enthusiast" - or people that are in it for the joy of bicycles in general.

    a 'good' Customer is one who brings the enthusiast the 6-pack or hangs out and buys something everytime they come in.

    In general, everything you utter is just asinine, and Walter farts a lot.

  12. #12
    I am Walt
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    Quote Originally Posted by yetisurly
    and Walter farts a lot.
    Yes he does...
    Ride more; post less...

  13. #13
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    I think I heard Walt fart on the quad. bypass.

    I think it's wrong for a place to jack up retail even if they plan on backing down the price by giving a discount.

    I don't like to be cheap or look cheap so I don't ask for discounts. No offense Diddir

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKA Monkeybutt
    I think I heard Walt fart on the quad. bypass.

    I think it's wrong for a place to jack up retail even if they plan on backing down the price by giving a discount.

    I don't like to be cheap or look cheap so I don't ask for discounts. No offense Diddir
    None taken. I don't think the LBS plans to back down on price. I think they hope people just pay, and indeed, I bet most do.

    I understand that people don't like to ask for discounts because they don't want to be, or to look, cheap. However, I think that this whole system needs readjustment. We should all judge less about both those that are "cheap" and about those that criticize the "cheap". Being "cheap" is in reality a good thing. Being "cheap" to an extreme is not. However, it seems that most of the people I know that have a lot of money are cheap. I think there is a correlation between being cheap and being rich.

    Asking for a discount or a better price is not bad so long as both people treat it as a polite business transaction. Unfortunately, in this country, far too people understand this.
    I AM JUST A JERK

  15. #15
    sprocket
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirdir
    None taken. I don't think the LBS plans to back down on price. I think they hope people just pay, and indeed, I bet most do.

    I understand that people don't like to ask for discounts because they don't want to be, or to look, cheap. However, I think that this whole system needs readjustment. We should all judge less about both those that are "cheap" and about those that criticize the "cheap". Being "cheap" is in reality a good thing. Being "cheap" to an extreme is not. However, it seems that most of the people I know that have a lot of money are cheap. I think there is a correlation between being cheap and being rich.

    Asking for a discount or a better price is not bad so long as both people treat it as a polite business transaction. Unfortunately, in this country, far too people understand this.

    That's because, in America, Dirdir, capitalism rules the day. What is unfortunate, however, is the fact that "cheap" people have cheapened the landscape of retail to the point of excess - forcing normally sane people to accept the farce that low price is truly a great thing for everybody. Take some of your rich people you know, for example that may own their own retail business. Would they give a discount to a 'good' customer knowing that it would negatively affect their bottom line? No. Of course not, that is like leaving money on the table for them to lose. No businessman that is looking to make money in the world I live in would be willing to honestly give away 15 or 20 percent of profit just 'cause they like someone.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by yetisurly
    That's because, in America, Dirdir, capitalism rules the day. What is unfortunate, however, is the fact that "cheap" people have cheapened the landscape of retail to the point of excess - forcing normally sane people to accept the farce that low price is truly a great thing for everybody. Take some of your rich people you know, for example that may own their own retail business. Would they give a discount to a 'good' customer knowing that it would negatively affect their bottom line? No. Of course not, that is like leaving money on the table for them to lose. No businessman that is looking to make money in the world I live in would be willing to honestly give away 15 or 20 percent of profit just 'cause they like someone.
    Oh, that totally depends. Why does the shop owner "like" someone?

    Is it because they bring beer to their mechanics and shoot the sh|t while watching Roam on the clock? No, those customers shouldn't get a break (and yet they do, over and over). I agree completely that you'll run yourself out of business doing that.

    Or does the shop owner "like" someone because they are a proven regular spender? I bought three high-end bikes and a decade of supplies from Landis, and the Southern shop gives me a discount on much of what I buy there. They do that so I don't feel the urge to move my business elsewhere. The Pig gave me a small break on miscellaneous bits the day I bought my 29er, but I don't know that they'd even remember me if I went back. It's a very competitive market, particularly with webshops in the mix. In that case, a small discount buys a lot of loyalty, and that's very good for the bottom line.

    Shops don't live and die solely by the bottom line price of every item they sell. In many cases, they have throughput they have to hit to keep a brand in their store. If Bob's Big Bike Shop needs to move 10 Treks out the door every year to keep the Trek dealership, they're going to have a strong motivation to discount stuff -- and they may elect to restrict that discount to the customers they "like."

    And finally, that kid who mooches tools and watches bike porn in your shop all day? He just might be your next regular customer. (Or he might just be a lonely kid who still goes home and orders from Performance, and then mooches tools off you to install his new stuff.)

    p.
    Don't be that guy! Read the forum guidelines.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul B
    Oh, that totally depends. Why does the shop owner "like" someone?

    Is it because they bring beer to their mechanics and shoot the sh|t while watching Roam on the clock? No, those customers shouldn't get a break (and yet they do, over and over). I agree completely that you'll run yourself out of business doing that.

    Or does the shop owner "like" someone because they are a proven regular spender? I bought three high-end bikes and a decade of supplies from Landis, and the Southern shop gives me a discount on much of what I buy there. They do that so I don't feel the urge to move my business elsewhere. The Pig gave me a small break on miscellaneous bits the day I bought my 29er, but I don't know that they'd even remember me if I went back. It's a very competitive market, particularly with webshops in the mix. In that case, a small discount buys a lot of loyalty, and that's very good for the bottom line.

    Shops don't live and die solely by the bottom line price of every item they sell. In many cases, they have throughput they have to hit to keep a brand in their store. If Bob's Big Bike Shop needs to move 10 Treks out the door every year to keep the Trek dealership, they're going to have a strong motivation to discount stuff -- and they may elect to restrict that discount to the customers they "like."

    And finally, that kid who mooches tools and watches bike porn in your shop all day? He just might be your next regular customer. (Or he might just be a lonely kid who still goes home and orders from Performance, and then mooches tools off you to install his new stuff.)

    p.
    sure.

  18. #18
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    Discounts for continued sales what an idea!

    Wholesale accounts: These customers have been with me for years and usually purchase the most product year after year. These customers receive the largest discount and provide the most overall income for the year.

    Dealer Accounts: Still a strong customer but do not purchase enough yearly to support having a wholesale account.

    Walk in customer. Pays current rate on all items and service no discount provided.

    Lastly on-line sales. Our on-line sales customer rates fall between a Dealer account and Walk-in customer.

    Now with our business each account is based on a percentage mark-up. This mark-up is what we would like to see based off of our cost. One thing I would like to see from every LBS I have shopped at is a consistent price per LBS employee. I get a discount at Rage, yet that discount is not the same between sales representatives. So if I buy a bottle of Sportlegs for $ 20.00 one week I prefer not to have to point that out the next time when someone else is wanting to change $ 24.00 a bottle. That is as long as the cost of the item has not gone up.

    In my own opinion I see most LBS with a very poor accounting and inventory control network. I think Landis and some of the bigger chains have a handle on this but not the small shops. I do not have any personal knowledge of the workings of some of these shops. But in most cases you never get a invoice along with your purchase. No invoice means poor tracking of overall sales and inventory control in general.

    Bottom line in my opinion. Nothing wrong with providing a loyal customer a discount if you select to do so.
    Currently at Mayo Clinic being tested for a kidney transplant. Donors welcome.

  19. #19
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    wholesale

    if you are referring to the plastic packed kit with a small bottle of sealant, the tape, and 2 strips, $65 is a pretty good deal from Stan's direct, then pay the shipping..... so you are at $75. $85 to get it now, is not soooo bad. I know what the wholesale price is, and if an LBS charged $65, that is less than 25% margin, most shops like to make 35% or a little more margin on accessories. that is where they make their paychecks. $85 gives about a 40% margin, that is pretty standard markup.

  20. #20
    Ouch, I am hot!
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    Quote Originally Posted by yetisurly
    That's because, in America, Dirdir, capitalism rules the day. What is unfortunate, however, is the fact that "cheap" people have cheapened the landscape of retail to the point of excess - forcing normally sane people to accept the farce that low price is truly a great thing for everybody. Take some of your rich people you know, for example that may own their own retail business. Would they give a discount to a 'good' customer knowing that it would negatively affect their bottom line? No. Of course not, that is like leaving money on the table for them to lose. No businessman that is looking to make money in the world I live in would be willing to honestly give away 15 or 20 percent of profit just 'cause they like someone.
    I am not exactly sure what you are trying to say. My point is simple. The local businesses are responsible for setting their own prices, discounts and sales model. Customers should be able to politely ask for discounts. Store owners have the option of saying yes or no, again, as long as it is polite, without getting mad at the customer and without making judgments. If the answer is no, customers have the option of paying or not, but they should never be mad or impolite about a no. If I ask for a discount and am told no -politely, I understand that for whatever reason I can't get a discount. All smiles on both sides.

    Look, we all understand that bargaining for a car is fine. I don't understand why bargaining for other products is not.

    I don't know why this is such an issue. I "fight" other attorneys all day long in this game of advocacy that I play. I don't take it personally.

    Attorneys are good people. We are not evil.
    I AM JUST A JERK

  21. #21
    sprocket
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirdir
    I am not exactly sure what you are trying to say. My point is simple. The local businesses are responsible for setting their own prices, discounts and sales model. Customers should be able to politely ask for discounts. Store owners have the option of saying yes or no, again, as long as it is polite, without getting mad at the customer and without making judgments. If the answer is no, customers have the option of paying or not, but they should never be mad or impolite about a no. If I ask for a discount and am told no -politely, I understand that for whatever reason I can't get a discount. All smiles on both sides.

    Look, we all understand that bargaining for a car is fine. I don't understand why bargaining for other products is not.

    I don't know why this is such an issue. I "fight" other attorneys all day long in this game of advocacy that I play. I don't take it personally.

    Attorneys are good people. We are not evil.

    apparently, it is all just a game.

  22. #22
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    I think I'll ask the local Safeway for a discount next time I'm in there.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by empty_set
    I think I'll ask the local Safeway for a discount next time I'm in there.
    I think that is a good idea, especially if you are buying a ton of a single item. I know people that do just that.
    I AM JUST A JERK

  24. #24
    just 1 more
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    It's usually not good strategy for any retailer to charge over MSRP, especially with prices so easy to check online. There will be more people read this thread and decide not to go to the LBS mentioned than will decide what the heck I'll gladly pay more. And, the guy who finds out he paid $20 over MSRP will never go back. Today retail is about turns, like it or not.

    interesting discussion BTW
    something's missing..

  25. #25
    Ouch, I am hot!
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    Quote Originally Posted by yetisurly
    apparently, it is all just a game.
    Yes, life is just a game and you my friend lost the instructions.
    I AM JUST A JERK

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