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  1. #1
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    What Will the Future Be for the Sedona Mountain Bike Trail System?????????????

    A call for community collaboration on future trails

    Sedona, AZ – The Red Rock Ranger District, in partnership with the City of Sedona and the Big Park Council, are seeking to create a non-motorized trail plan that reflects local values and recreation needs and promotes tourism for regional economic benefit while protecting the resources that draw people to this special area. Your help is needed!

    Local citizens are encouraged to join this collaborative effort by attending a kick-off meeting October 25, from 6 to 8 p.m. This event will be held at the Synagogue of the Jewish Community of Sedona, located on Meadowlark Drive and State Route 179.

    This is the first in a series of monthly meetings to update the local trail plan for our forest lands near Sedona and Big Park. All members of the public are welcome. Your ideas are vital for this community planning effort.

    Agenda items for the October 25 meeting will include: an overview of the process, discussion of desired outcomes, sharing of ideas/values and trail interests, brainstorm of concerns, monthly schedule, and developing a core working group.

    Annually, over 600,000 trail users enjoy National Forest trails in the Red Rock area. Popularity and use continues to increase, particularly for hiking and mountain biking.

    What will the future of Sedona mountain bike trails be and what new trail opportunities are appropriate?

    How can trails better connect with the community?


    These are some of the challenges that will be addressed.

  2. #2
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    Ill put up some flyers in all the quad stores in my area. This diverse group has a lot to offer sedona an its trails.

  3. #3
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    I won't be in town to attend the meeting, but if I were I would be for: the continued adoption of the current user built trails, the better signage of all system trails using a trail signage system similar to the new system in Moab, and lastly, I would be for the formation of a volunteer trail maintenance group that could do necessary maintenance on the adopted user built trails.

    I personally would be interested in knowing what the presidents of the SMBC and VVCC are for and what they will communicate at the 10/25 meeting.

  4. #4
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    We just want to leave our mark on the trails for those who come after us.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSdirt29 View Post
    We just want to leave our mark on the trails for those who come after us.
    SS:

    Play along with me and pretend you are a pesky fly and I just nailed you with my trusty fly swatter.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    SS:

    Play along with me and pretend you are a pesky fly and I just nailed you with my trusty fly swatter.
    Cool! And you can be a fish I just reeled in with my hook and bait.

  7. #7
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    You're still here?

  8. #8
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    More question marks, please???????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????


    Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Patrick View Post
    More question marks, please???????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????


    Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    EP:

    Very creative post, thanks for posting it. Now do you or any other viewers have any experience with meetings like this and how you go about getting a good outcome for the mountain bike community?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    EP:

    Very creative post, thanks for posting it. Now do you or any other viewers have any experience with meetings like this and how you go about getting a good outcome for the mountain bike community?
    yes, a little.
    1. have a plan pre-discussed amongst the mtb stakeholders, so you appear with 1 voice to the powers-that-be.
    2. Plan should be realistic, have priorities and clear stages that can be discretely managed. 1 big plan will fail.
    3. If you cant get consensus amongst the mtbs, you are screwed and it will be a lot of yammering.

    Hopefully your call-out to the clubs will work, since Managers and Rangers etc. are drawn to the clubs for input - they think if you are not affiliated with a group, you cant count for much. Unfortunately that sounds like it will work against you and some of your friends, TD.

  11. #11
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    As a strategy guy....I would also add to Cholla's list that a 4th item should be inserted: Measurable outcome. You've got to ensure that whatever is proposed is measurable so that the powers that be have a clear method of establishing progress to whatever goal/task is taken on and is easily communicated back to the enabling functions (where the money comes from).

  12. #12
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    I really wish this wasn't on a weeknight...I'd be there for every meeting, but it's a drive from Mesa and I don't get off that early.

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    What is going on with the forum borders. I can't read this! =(

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maadjurguer View Post
    As a strategy guy....I would also add to Cholla's list that a 4th item should be inserted: Measurable outcome. You've got to ensure that whatever is proposed is measurable so that the powers that be have a clear method of establishing progress to whatever goal/task is taken on and is easily communicated back to the enabling functions (where the money comes from).
    Sure doesn't sound like government work.
    "Nobody ever told me not to try" - Curious George Soundtrack by Jack Johnson

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    I think IMBA is going to be a key entity in trying to support mountain biking interests. As the self-appointed ambassador to Sedona mountain biking I have always tried to promote Sedona as a great mountain biking destination due to the diverse trail system.

    Unlike areas like Bend and Moab, there isn't a lot of community support for mountain biking as a recognized revenue generator, so most of the recognition comes from bike magazine articles, word of mouth and postings on MTBR.

    Whether the future meetings will amount to much support for additional mountain biking opportunities will be an interesting process to follow.

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    Achieve desired outcome?

    Bribery, you ignoramus!
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrwhlr View Post
    Bribery, you ignoramus!
    You have to wonder with these processes if there will really be transparency and that the outcome hasn't already been decided. Is there some way to evaluate the process to check if bias is a factor?

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    I think IMBA is going to be a key entity in trying to support mountain biking interests. As the self-appointed ambassador to Sedona mountain biking I have always tried to promote Sedona as a great mountain biking destination due to the diverse trail system.

    Unlike areas like Bend and Moab, there isn't a lot of community support for mountain biking as a recognized revenue generator, so most of the recognition comes from bike magazine articles, word of mouth and postings on MTBR.

    Whether the future meetings will amount to much support for additional mountain biking opportunities will be an interesting process to follow.
    If you want to "promote" Sedona get a puppet account that has a down to earth personality and comes across less like a used car salesman. You've done more harm than good in the area of promotion. The mere sight of your username evokes disdain and dread.

    Your ideal puppet would simply talk about Sedona and organize rides and not simply spambot and sell Sedona. If "Traildoc" gets bored and needs a release maybe get a SHAMWOW distributorship which would more suit his talents.

    Love,
    Dirt

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSdirt29 View Post
    If you want to "promote" Sedona get a puppet account that has a down to earth personality and comes across less like a used car salesman. You've done more harm than good in the area of promotion. The mere sight of your username evokes disdain and dread.

    Your ideal puppet would simply talk about Sedona and organize rides and not simply spambot and sell Sedona. If "Traildoc" gets bored and needs a release maybe get a SHAMWOW distributorship which would more suit his talents.

    Love,
    Dirt
    SS:

    Disdain and dread are you sure about that? I would think it would be passionate and initiative. I was into Amway for a while so you might have a point. Thanks for helping to keep this thread active. I think we are going to learn a lot from this thread.

  20. #20
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    Interesting...

    I'm generalizing here but, Sedona is a town of roughly 10k afluent retired people, median age 56.1. The local population certainly isn't the reason that there are four bike shops and a budding mountain bike destination?

    Seems like a lot of folks not from Sedona have helped put and keep Sedona mountain biking on the map. Considering this fact how will this local planning process reflect and respect the will of mountain bikers who do not reside in Sedona? Last I checked public lands were owned by 300 000 000+ Americans.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    SS:

    I would think it would be passionate and initiative.
    That would be applicable if this were about you. I take it this is more than a narcissistic quest. Do you want what is best for Sedona or what is best for Traildoc? Or possibly option 3, What is best for Sedona provided you get your recognition, credit and adoration.

    The current state of affairs has you doing more harm than good.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSdirt29 View Post
    That would be applicable if this were about you. I take it this is more than a narcissistic quest. Do you want what is best for Sedona or what is best for Traildoc? Or possibly option 3, What is best for Sedona provided you get your recognition, credit and adoration.

    The current state of affairs has you doing more harm than good.
    SS:

    Today I spoke with two of the different bike shop owners in Sedona. They both said business is good. How does that translate to more harm than good? Can you be specific or are you just a TD hater so you are not ever going to vote for me?

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    SS:

    Today I spoke with two of the different bike shop owners in Sedona. They both said business is good. How does that translate to more harm than good? Can you be specific or are you just a TD hater so you are not ever going to vote for me?
    If business is good why the meeting? Why do you assume business is good because of you ? Would it be better if you vanished?

    Sorry not a hater. I have learned that when you post something it's generally self serving rubbish so I more than likely just ignore it and move on. I made an exception this time because every now and then I get bored enough to watch an infomercial. From what I've seen, my opinion of "Traildoc is more rule, less exception.

  24. #24
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    what if they came out with a 29er hoveround?

  25. #25
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    I, for one, kiss the ring of Traildoc. I worship at the altar of Traildoc. I bow down at the mention of Traildoc's name, then I faint. If I was on a romantic stroll with Traildoc and there was a puddle, I'd lay in it so Traildoc didn't get wet. I would gladly throw rose pedals on the ground so Traildoc doesn't touch the same ground the rest of us do. If I was a slave, I'd want to be the one that fanned Traildoc all day.

    All hail Traildoc. Glory be onto Traildoc.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSdirt29 View Post
    If business is good why the meeting? Why do you assume business is good because of you ? Would it be better if you vanished?

    Sorry not a hater. I have learned that when you post something it's generally self serving rubbish so I more than likely just ignore it and move on. I made an exception this time because every now and then I get bored enough to watch an infomercial. From what I've seen, my opinion of "Traildoc is more rule, less exception.
    SS:

    I assume business is good because of my efforts to promote Sedona mountain biking and the feedback I get from the shop owners. Business can always be better if the landmanager adopts more trails and does better signage to keep people from getting lost. They do it in Bend and they do it in Moab. It seems like a pretty simple concept when you think about it.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by longhairmike View Post
    what if they came out with a 29er hoveround?
    Didn't they have those in one of the Star Wars movies ? I never saw Star Wars but saw them in a preview.

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    I love unicorns

  29. #29
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    If Sedona was in North Korea, I'd call Traildoc "Glorious Leader." One day, (maybe after about Mid-December) Glorious Leader would grace me with his presence? I'd be all like:


  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy_E View Post
    I, for one, kiss the ring of Traildoc. I worship at the altar of Traildoc. I bow down at the mention of Traildoc's name, then I faint. If I was on a romantic stroll with Traildoc and there was a puddle, I'd lay in it so Traildoc didn't get wet. I would gladly throw rose pedals on the ground so Traildoc doesn't touch the same ground the rest of us do. If I was a slave, I'd want to be the one that fanned Traildoc all day.

    All hail Traildoc. Glory be onto Traildoc.
    Easy:

    I sure do enjoy your posts. You have really come around to get the big picture. Now if we could just get you out to build a new trail for the masses to enjoy that would be progress.

    Maybe one of these days I will take the time to write the "Idiots Guide to Trail Building" If only we could get some government employees to write the "Idiots Guide to NEPA Studies" and the "Idiots Guide to Archeological Studies" we might get the ball rolling forward a little faster.

    I understand there is a private citizen (ex Marine) in Lake Tahoe that got so frustrated with the time it took to get NEPA studies done he told the landmanager he would do the study himself to get his trail project approved. He succeeded in doing the study and the trail was approved and built. That guy definitely knows the definition of initiative.

  31. #31
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    What Will the Future Be for the Sedona Mountain Bike Trail System?????????????-td.png
    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy_E View Post
    If Sedona was in North Korea, I'd call Traildoc "Glorious Leader." One day, (maybe after about Mid-December) Glorious Leader would grace me with his presence? I'd be all like:

    He is the one.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSdirt29 View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	td.png 
Views:	728 
Size:	107.8 KB 
ID:	731243

    He is the one.
    Dirt:

    Thanks for the post. You definitely have shown you have creative computer skills that could possibly be helpful in developing some great intersection maps for the mountain biking masses trying to navigate the comprehensive Sedona trail system.

    In Moab they have devised a state of the art signing system that helps riders orientate themselves so they can have a great riding experience w/o the frustration of getting lost. I am attaching the current map at the EKG and Baby Steps-N intersection which is located in the Klondike riding area. In Moab they use colors to help navigate trails. On the map the EKG trail is orange and the Baby Steps-N trail is baby blue. Carsonites are also used to orientate riders and hikers and they will have trail names and colors on them to denote what trail you are on.

    One of the confusing intersections in Sedona is the Ant Hill and Jordan intersection. Both of those trails are in the Secret trails location. The 1.8 mile Jordan trail is mostly intermediate, but has some advanced sections that a intermediate rider will need to walk. The .6 mile Ant Hill loop trail is mostly intermediate and connects to several other trails along the loop.

    I am attaching a map of the Secret trails area along with the profiles for both of those trails. I am hoping with your exceptional computer skills you might be able to put together a nice intersection sign of the Jordan/Ant Hill intersection do you think you could do that?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails What Will the Future Be for the Sedona Mountain Bike Trail System?????????????-signage.jpg  

    What Will the Future Be for the Sedona Mountain Bike Trail System?????????????-anthill-profile.jpg  

    What Will the Future Be for the Sedona Mountain Bike Trail System?????????????-jordan-profile.jpg  

    What Will the Future Be for the Sedona Mountain Bike Trail System?????????????-sec.jpg  


  33. #33
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    If Sedona was Iran, Traildoc would be the Ayatollah.

    If Sedona was Saudi Arabia, Traildoc would be the Imam.

    If Sedona was in old Latin times, Traildoc would be the Potentate.

    Glory be the words he speaks.

  34. #34
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    Just returned from 5 days in Sedona w/ 12 guys who all flew in from out of town. Another great trip riding your local trails.
    However it was very discouraging to hear that a few of the trails we really love and look forward to riding are slated to be closed next year. Especially when competing mt. biking destination towns are adding trails. It seems funny that you have so many tacky tourist shops and hundreds of pink jeeps riding around the NF and the thing you are shutting down are mt. bike trails that most people don't know about, couldn't find, and couldn't ride if they did. Why ruin it for the visitor that can and does?
    Hope you all can come together and figure it out. We'll be watching from the East.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChetWilcox View Post
    Just returned from 5 days in Sedona w/ 12 guys who all flew in from out of town. Another great trip riding your local trails.
    However it was very discouraging to hear that a few of the trails we really love and look forward to riding are slated to be closed next year. Especially when competing mt. biking destination towns are adding trails. It seems funny that you have so many tacky tourist shops and hundreds of pink jeeps riding around the NF and the thing you are shutting down are mt. bike trails that most people don't know about, couldn't find, and couldn't ride if they did. Why ruin it for the visitor that can and does?
    Hope you all can come together and figure it out. We'll be watching from the East.
    Chet:

    Thanks for you post. As a visitor that probably helped support our local economy do you have any idea how much money the twelve of you spent in Sedona proper during your 5 day visit? It might help the business community to understand the potential economic value for keeping and improving our comprehensive trail system.

    TD

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    We paid for lodging, dinner at Elote and others, lunch everyday at either Wildflower or the sandwich shop next to Fat Tire, 9 rental bikes for 5 days, and many beers and margaritas. We did not take any yoga classes, pink jeep tours (although we did seem them near Broken Arrow while in the Hog area) or purchase any "authentic" western wear or crystals. Some of us did experience a vortex though while descending HL (or was that vertigo...? I get them confused).

  37. #37
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    Doing More For Less

    SSDirt:

    Here is another picture of a sign on the new Magnificent 7 trail system. This sign is at the Arth's trail intersection. 80% of the whole Magnificent 7 trail system was user built and now with the help of Sandy and Jeff that system of trails has been adopted to a system trail status.

    If you look at the sign closely you see the staples over a plastic sheet that protects the map from the elements. The reason why Trail Mix uses plastic covered paper maps is that the Moab trail system is changing so rapidly that the most economical why to provide great maps is to do them in paper then easily change them when a new trail is added without a huge expense that the Trail Mix budget can't afford.

    The only suggestion I would have for Trail Mix is the actual placement of the maps. On some of the intersections the map is orientated correctly in the east west direction, so some users don't quickly orientate themselves to the intersection.

    As you can see the Klondike trail system has evolved somewhat by listing the names of the intersecting trails with the color of the dots on the trail.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails What Will the Future Be for the Sedona Mountain Bike Trail System?????????????-mag-7.jpg  

    What Will the Future Be for the Sedona Mountain Bike Trail System?????????????-signage.jpg  

    Last edited by traildoc; 10-18-2012 at 02:26 PM.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona View Post
    I love unicorns
    Oh yea my narwhal will eat your unicorn
    Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of
    arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body.

  39. #39
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    I Found this drawing of a Gnar-Whale that a student placed under my office door this morning! I taped it to my door.

    Quote Originally Posted by clockwork View Post
    Oh yea my narwhal will eat your unicorn
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails What Will the Future Be for the Sedona Mountain Bike Trail System?????????????-gnarwhale.jpg  


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    Quote Originally Posted by clockwork View Post
    Oh yea my narwhal will eat your unicorn
    No way! My unicorn will down kegs of leprechaun shine then puke rainbows and sh#t butterflies all over your narwhale!

  41. #41
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    is this thread doomed to easy -e and faildoc playing tummy sticks?

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona View Post
    No way! My unicorn will down kegs of leprechaun shine then puke rainbows and sh#t butterflies all over your narwhale!
    Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of
    arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillbo View Post
    is this thread doomed to easy -e and faildoc playing tummy sticks?
    Hey, I'm just saying that if Sedona was ancient Egypt, Traildoc would be Pharaoh.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChetWilcox View Post
    We paid for lodging, dinner at Elote and others, lunch everyday at either Wildflower or the sandwich shop next to Fat Tire, 9 rental bikes for 5 days, and many beers and margaritas. We did not take any yoga classes, pink jeep tours (although we did seem them near Broken Arrow while in the Hog area) or purchase any "authentic" western wear or crystals. Some of us did experience a vortex though while descending HL (or was that vertigo...? I get them confused).
    CW:

    I did a epic 26 mile Moab ride yesterday that is among the best rides Moab has to offer the advanced freeride group. On the ride was an individual that is involved with the mountain bike community in providing some of the best riding in the whole world.

    During our shuttle ride I asked him if he thought the Mag 7 trail system would ever exist without the pioneering done to create the original trails over seven years ago? In his opinion there would be no such trail network and he concluded that in many areas the initial building of user built trails has ultimately encouraged the landmanagers to help adopt existing trails and work with trailbuilders to build new trails that enhance the once user built trails.

    He also said that in his location for every dollar spent on new trails there has been an economic return of over $8. One could only hope that the FS in Sedona will see the economic value of allowing the adoption process to move forward without a lot of setbacks.

  45. #45
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    I'm just saying the future of MTB in Sedona is just about here!!! The FS should follow the lead of the majority of citizens in Sedona and PROHIBIT any MTB activity on ALL FS land in the Sedona area. Let's just look closely to the demographic in Sedona, less than .5% of the residents in Sedona appreciate MTB in Sedona. More than 70% of the population do not want bikes on the trail. Over 30% are elsewhere for more than half the year and the permanent residents are fighting hard to get bikes banned on the FS lands.

    I think the best thing to do is...ride elsewhere!!!! There is plenty of land that the USFS does not have any control over!

    The FS desperately wants to close the area to MTB, I say we all should do our part to ensure that it is done!!!! Then maybe (after 10 years or so) TD will leave Sedona and the threat against MTB in Sedona will deminish.

    THERE IS NO FUTURE FOR MOUNTAIN BIKING IN SEDONA, THE CITIZENS OF SEDONA DO NOT WANT IT, THE FS DOESN'T WANT IT AND THE LOCAL BUSINESSES DON'T WANT IT!!! Just .5% of the population want to see trails adopted, trails built, and trails maintained!!! MTB seems to be the only user group that is complaining about the lack of and quality of trail in Sedona, the other (more established and popular) user groups complain to the FS about MTB users. Since $ makes this country go round and round and $ is in very short supply I figure the most cost effective solution for the FS is to bann MTB on FS land, that way they can eliminate a problematic user group while satisfying the other user groups which are the majority in Sedona.

    TD, would you support the MTB bann in Sedona? Would you support any trail closures?

    If such a bann were to take place, would you move elsewhere so you can continue to ride in your neighborhood?

    Personaly I look forward to the MTB bann in Sedona, it will give everyone who visits Sedona the chance to sit back and enjoy Sedona by walking around the Uptown stores (looking at EXTREAMLY OVER PRICED ART AND ROCKS).

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    CW: One could only hope that the FS in Sedona will see the economic value of allowing the adoption process to move forward without a lot of setbacks.
    One could only hope your useless pointless rants are getting you nowhere!!

    Sedona does not care one F'n bit about catering to the MTB community or about ANY revenue it may bring, Sedona is for ART, ROCKS, and JEEP TOURS!! There is no need for any other sources of revenue!!!

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChetWilcox View Post
    Another great trip riding your local trails.
    However it was very discouraging to hear that a few of the trails we really love and look forward to riding are slated to be closed next year. Why ruin it for the visitor that can and does? Hope you all can come together and figure it out.
    See, Chet, there was this one guy who really wanted to make sure that everybody could find every trail in town easily. He didn't want visitors like you to have to ask a local to help you find the non-system trails. He wanted to make it so easy he made a free downloadable map of Sedona and even offered guided tours of all the non-system, illegally built trails. Unfortunately in the process of showing everybody the trails, he didn't think what the repercussions of the local land manager knowing exactly where each social trail begins and ends. Now, the bike community gets to work to keep the trails open while he tours the western states and Canada for 6 months. What a country.
    The secret to mountain biking is pretty simple. The slower you go the more likely it is you’ll crash.
    - Julie Furtado

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by RideNShine View Post
    I'm just saying the future of MTB in Sedona is just about here!!! The FS should follow the lead of the majority of citizens in Sedona and PROHIBIT any MTB activity on ALL FS land in the Sedona area. Let's just look closely to the demographic in Sedona, less than .5% of the residents in Sedona appreciate MTB in Sedona. More than 70% of the population do not want bikes on the trail. Over 30% are elsewhere for more than half the year and the permanent residents are fighting hard to get bikes banned on the FS lands.

    I think the best thing to do is...ride elsewhere!!!! There is plenty of land that the USFS does not have any control over!

    The FS desperately wants to close the area to MTB, I say we all should do our part to ensure that it is done!!!! Then maybe (after 10 years or so) TD will leave Sedona and the threat against MTB in Sedona will deminish.

    THERE IS NO FUTURE FOR MOUNTAIN BIKING IN SEDONA, THE CITIZENS OF SEDONA DO NOT WANT IT, THE FS DOESN'T WANT IT AND THE LOCAL BUSINESSES DON'T WANT IT!!! Just .5% of the population want to see trails adopted, trails built, and trails maintained!!! MTB seems to be the only user group that is complaining about the lack of and quality of trail in Sedona, the other (more established and popular) user groups complain to the FS about MTB users. Since $ makes this country go round and round and $ is in very short supply I figure the most cost effective solution for the FS is to bann MTB on FS land, that way they can eliminate a problematic user group while satisfying the other user groups which are the majority in Sedona.

    TD, would you support the MTB bann in Sedona? Would you support any trail closures?

    If such a bann were to take place, would you move elsewhere so you can continue to ride in your neighborhood?

    Personaly I look forward to the MTB bann in Sedona, it will give everyone who visits Sedona the chance to sit back and enjoy Sedona by walking around the Uptown stores (looking at EXTREAMLY OVER PRICED ART AND ROCKS).
    Shine:

    Great post. You make some interesting points, I doubt there is any supporting documentation to any of it. It's kind of like some guy we all know stating it was a terrorist raid from the get go rather than some people getting mad watching a You Tube video.

    90% of the Sedona population that is asked about trails in Sedona like the idea of adopting and properly signing the trails for their use. I have the documentation to prove it, where do you get yours?

    Lastly, when is that super duper mapping program going to be available, so those users can start to enjoy the trail system and contribute some money to help with the building and maintaining of new trails? I understand the technology is amazing and will allow users to have more wonderful experience, that they will be happy to pay for.

    In Moab it's totally different. The mountain bike club would rather have great signage at each intersection so everyone can enjoy the riding or hiking experience. When you go out to the motorcycle areas the signage sucks so the motorcyclists ride off trail and tear the place up, I am sure they are having fun, but they certainly are creating a lot of trail that goes nowhere.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by RideNShine View Post
    I'm just saying the future of MTB in Sedona is just about here!!! The FS should follow the lead of the majority of citizens in Sedona and PROHIBIT any MTB activity on ALL FS land in the Sedona area. Let's just look closely to the demographic in Sedona, less than .5% of the residents in Sedona appreciate MTB in Sedona. More than 70% of the population do not want bikes on the trail. Over 30% are elsewhere for more than half the year and the permanent residents are fighting hard to get bikes banned on the FS lands.

    I think the best thing to do is...ride elsewhere!!!! There is plenty of land that the USFS does not have any control over!

    The FS desperately wants to close the area to MTB, I say we all should do our part to ensure that it is done!!!! Then maybe (after 10 years or so) TD will leave Sedona and the threat against MTB in Sedona will deminish.

    THERE IS NO FUTURE FOR MOUNTAIN BIKING IN SEDONA, THE CITIZENS OF SEDONA DO NOT WANT IT, THE FS DOESN'T WANT IT AND THE LOCAL BUSINESSES DON'T WANT IT!!! Just .5% of the population want to see trails adopted, trails built, and trails maintained!!! MTB seems to be the only user group that is complaining about the lack of and quality of trail in Sedona, the other (more established and popular) user groups complain to the FS about MTB users. Since $ makes this country go round and round and $ is in very short supply I figure the most cost effective solution for the FS is to bann MTB on FS land, that way they can eliminate a problematic user group while satisfying the other user groups which are the majority in Sedona.

    TD, would you support the MTB bann in Sedona? Would you support any trail closures?

    If such a bann were to take place, would you move elsewhere so you can continue to ride in your neighborhood?

    Personaly I look forward to the MTB bann in Sedona, it will give everyone who visits Sedona the chance to sit back and enjoy Sedona by walking around the Uptown stores (looking at EXTREAMLY OVER PRICED ART AND ROCKS).
    I am on board with the ban as long as I can take my unicorn out for trail rides. I am a local as well, I just bought a 5000 square foot house in Sedona that I plan on visiting for four months this year. I really think that bikes are the main cause for global warming and all of the erosion that is destroying the red rocks of Sedona. Ban bikes!

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post

    90% of the Sedona population that is asked about trails in Sedona like the idea of adopting and properly signing the trails for their use. I have the documentation to prove it, where do you get yours?
    I'd like to see that documentation posted. I doubt you could find 90% agreement on any subject in any town. Plus a pure 90% sounds like a made up number.

    Post it.




    87% of all statistics are made up on the spot

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