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  1. #1
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    What Happens When They REMOVE Your Trail Markers??

    I recently got word the Sedona volunteer workers were going to try out a new system of marking sections of slickrock trails. In Moab we have all heard of the Slickrock trail which is painted with a durable white paint that seems to be applied with some kind of a paint brush or small roller.

    Strangely today I heard that the new system of trail marking was tried on one of our slickrock trails called Hangover and low and behold the new markers were gone within one day and apparently removed by the other respected trail maintenance crew.

    It will be interesting once all the volunteers get the word how long it will take for the next round of markers to get removed? That trail will be a great place to test out a new kind of marker. In Sedona the old tried and true method they use in Moab seems to be too ugly for our beautiful slickrock.

    If anyone can get a picture of the new markers let us see what they look like.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    I recently got word the Sedona volunteer workers were going to try out a new system of marking sections of slickrock trails. In Moab we have all heard of the Slickrock trail which is painted with a durable white paint that seems to be applied with some kind of a paint brush or small roller.

    Strangely today I heard that the new system of trail marking was tried on one of our slickrock trails called Hangover and low and behold the new markers were gone within one day and apparently removed by the other respected trail maintenance crew.

    It will be interesting once all the volunteers get the word how long it will take for the next round of markers to get removed? That trail will be a great place to test out a new kind of marker. In Sedona the old tried and true method they use in Moab seems to be too ugly for our beautiful slickrock.

    If anyone can get a picture of the new markers let us see what they look like.
    Here ya go. Straight from the FS:

    SLICKROCK TEST MARKING:

    Forest Service and several volunteers have been testing paint and “highway” tape to mark where Forest trails cross large areas of slickrock and where people tend to get lost. The markings are white, picture attached. If you see them, please do not remove them. If you have comments about the markings, pro or con, please contact Adrian with your comment at fcadrian@fs.fed.us Thanks for your help! We have had no less then 5 rescues at the Hiline saddle alone in the past year…so there is a need for some kind of marking. Ideas are welcome.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails What Happens When They REMOVE Your Trail Markers??-marker.jpg  


  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    Here ya go. Straight from the FS:

    SLICKROCK TEST MARKING:

    Forest Service and several volunteers have been testing paint and “highway” tape to mark where Forest trails cross large areas of slickrock and where people tend to get lost. The markings are white, picture attached. If you see them, please do not remove them. If you have comments about the markings, pro or con, please contact Adrian with your comment at fcadrian@fs.fed.us Thanks for your help! We have had no less then 5 rescues at the Hiline saddle alone in the past year…so there is a need for some kind of marking. Ideas are welcome.
    They look nice, so are they paint or stickers? I heard the FOF may have removed the first set.

    I wonder who got lost on the saddle? Were they blind or just low IQ. I think they may eventually need the type of marks they use in Moab.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails What Happens When They REMOVE Your Trail Markers??-signage.jpg  


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    It looks like paint,don't know how anyone would remove it without a chisel. I wonder if there are glass beads in it for reflective properties (night riding). Not sure the FS condones night riding, but it was a thought.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coondog#77 View Post
    It looks like paint,don't know how anyone would remove it without a chisel. I wonder if there are glass beads in it for reflective properties (night riding). Not sure the FS condones night riding, but it was a thought.
    You are probably right the FOF is pretty industrious. Previously the Westerners went up with battery powered wire brushes.

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    Why would FOF remove the spots unless they were told to do so? It's mostly hikers that are getting lost. If you were on HO yesterday towards the end of the day you would know they are still there. From the title of your thread it appears you are trying to start a fight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    I wonder who got lost on the saddle? Were they blind or just low IQ. I think they may eventually need the type of marks they use in Moab.
    Here ya go Doc. I took 20 people 5 hours yesterday to rescue this stranded couple:
    Stranded hikers rescued near Sedona

    I think maybe you should join Search and Rescue as a volunteer

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    Why would FOF remove the spots unless they were told to do so? It's mostly hikers that are getting lost. If you were on HO yesterday towards the end of the day you would know they are still there. From the title of your thread it appears you are trying to start a fight.
    I am certainly not trying to start a fight. As you know I am a HUGE proponent of painting slickrock. A reliable source told me that the FOF went out and removed the markers on Hangover then they were reinstalled.

    If this is correct then I think you owe me an apology. If it is incorrect then I think I owe the FOF an apology.

    I have been telling the FS the only way to mark a route on slickrock is by using paint. If they think tape is going to work I believe the reality will end up being paint.

    If in fact some of the markers were removed shortly after they were installed there will need to be someone who is dedicated to continually monitor the markings and he or she will need to constantly replace those marks that have been removed.

    This may be a learning process that people who hate paint have to go through, but I am convinced that by being diligent about replacing removed markers the haters will give up.

    If there are areas that paint continues to be removed I would suggest the FS set up game cameras to catch the people that don't care about hikers and mountain bikers getting lost.

    TD

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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    I am certainly not trying to start a fight. As you know I am a HUGE proponent of painting slickrock. A reliable source told me that the FOF went out and removed the markers on Hangover then they were reinstalled.

    If this is correct then I think you owe me an apology. If it is incorrect then I think I owe the FOF an apology.

    I have been telling the FS the only way to mark a route on slickrock is by using paint. If they think tape is going to work I believe the reality will end up being paint.

    If in fact some of the markers were removed shortly after they were installed there will need to be someone who is dedicated to continually monitor the markings and he or she will need to constantly replace those marks that have been removed.

    This may be a learning process that people who hate paint have to go through, but I am convinced that by being diligent about replacing removed markers the haters will give up.

    If there are areas that paint continues to be removed I would suggest the FS set up game cameras to catch the people that don't care about hikers and mountain bikers getting lost.

    TD
    Well maybe your reliable source isn't as reliable as you think. That, or FOF or whomever, are doing their nefarious handiwork at night. While being closely tailed and watched by said reliable source to quickly get that intel for you to post here on mtbr. If you really have valid info on folks tearing down signs or trail markers report it to Adrian. Or, your local Sedona mtn bike chapter.

    Here are pics from yesterday of HO stolen from Zul's thread in Passion. By the light and shadowing I would say the pics were take aproximately between 4 and 4:30 pm. Yesterday. Looks like the new markings are still there. Who is this "other" respected trail maintenance crew that you mention and are accusing of removing the dots?

    edit to add: apologies to Zul for misappropriating his pics to squash more Sedrama
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails What Happens When They REMOVE Your Trail Markers??-ho1.jpg  

    What Happens When They REMOVE Your Trail Markers??-ho2.jpg  


  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    Here ya go Doc. I took 20 people 5 hours yesterday to rescue this stranded couple:
    Stranded hikers rescued near Sedona

    I think maybe you should join Search and Rescue as a volunteer
    Rockman that is funny. I wonder where this couple got the idea (STERLING PASS TRAIL TO VULTEE ARCH | The Hike House) to do this 3 hour hike. There is no way anyone would consider putting paint on the route that is so highly published to keep them from getting lost, RIGHT. Instead the landmanager assumes it is not necessary to give navigationally compromised citizens the signage they need to keep from getting lost.

    In Moab they have decided they are going to do everything they can to keep this scenario from happening to people who want to recreate.

    Now if this young couple really weren't lost and possibly may have been out to have sex in a very remote place and got cliff-ed out then that is a different matter. I think there is possibly more to the story and I really believe that is the real story .

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    Well maybe your reliable source isn't as reliable as you think. That, or FOF or whomever, are doing their nefarious handiwork at night. While being closely tailed and watched by said reliable source to quickly get that intel for you to post here on mtbr. If you really have valid info on folks tearing down signs or trail markers report it to Adrian. Or, your local Sedona mtn bike chapter.

    Here are pics from yesterday of HO stolen from Zul's thread in Passion. By the light and shadowing I would say the pics were take aproximately between 4 and 4:30 pm. Yesterday. Looks like the new markings are still there. Who is this "other" respected trail maintenance crew that you mention and are accusing of removing the dots?

    edit to add: apologies to Zul for misappropriating his pics to squash more Sedrama
    I am riding with my source today and I will nail down the Intel. You are ready to apologize if my Intel has validity about someone removing the dots then Lars having to call the FS and say what the F is going on? It is pretty cool that you finally maybe catching me in some possibly tainted intel. Maybe freak'a'zoid could chime in.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    I am riding with my source today and I will nail down the Intel. You are ready to apologize if my Intel has validity about someone removing the dots then Lars having to call the FS and say what the F is going on? It is pretty cool that you finally maybe catching me in some possibly tainted intel. Maybe freak'a'zoid could chime in.
    If you can prove that Friends of the Forest removed the white dots on Hangover after 5pm yesterday I am in error and will humbly retract my statement. Otherwise, time to move on to the next Sedona topic. What's it going to be? Your audience awaits.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    If you can prove that Friends of the Forest removed the white dots on Hangover after 5pm yesterday I am in error and will humbly retract my statement. Otherwise, time to move on to the next Sedona topic. What's it going to be? Your audience awaits.
    I vote for "Should Tourons Be Allowed To Have Sex Off Trail?"
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  14. #14
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    Only if they face north .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillbo View Post
    Only if they face north .
    I award you one internets.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    If you can prove that Friends of the Forest removed the white dots on Hangover after 5pm yesterday I am in error and will humbly retract my statement. Otherwise, time to move on to the next Sedona topic. What's it going to be? Your audience awaits.
    OK Rock I went on the BIG downhill ride with my source. We did Airport Viewpoint to Airport Loop to Table Top to Windsurfer to Bogus to Sketch to Upper Ramshead to Ramshead to Secret Slick Rock to Ridge to Red Rock Crossing to Baldwin to Templeton to Easy Breezy to Eazy Sleezy to Coconino connector to Coconino to Slim Shady to Highline to Baldwin to Red Rock Crossing to the Pub.

    What the heck is going on with the Templeton climb. It looks like someone with no clue is working on that section of trail. If anyone who rides that trails thinks whoever has worked on that knows what they are doing I will be amazed?

    Ok back on subject. A bunch of riders from a famous bike magazine went out on a ride on Tomahawk two days ago. As usual everyone had a blast and no one got killed. When they got back up to Hangover freak'a'zoid was up there walking around with tears in his eyes. Apparently someone had removed all of his reflective tape markers he had previously put down.

    Apparently he was on the Red Phone to the FS asking them if they knew what was going on. Apparently some entity who the FS has control over had taken the tape off. So the FS told that entity to back off and freak went in and re-installed the markings with I believe new tape.

    So if that is close to actually what happened do you owe me an apology or do I have to apologize to you because freak hasn't verified who pulled off this dastardly deed.

    I am cool with the fact that as long as freak is out there with a roll of stickers and can replace with as soon as some d!ckhead mountain bike hater comes out and removes them that will be cool, or if they stash the roll of stickers out there or there is some other person who has signed up under freak that we can call when the stickers disappear again.

    It will be interesting how long the new stickers last?

    TD

  17. #17
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    TD, since you posed it as a question I'm going to say no one has to apologize. Sounds like upset mtn bikers? Or, maybe you should to Friends of the Forest at the next meeting. Besides, the dots are white paint no? At least they are on Slim Shady. Maybe the FS decided they wanted some say in the placement on HO and had someone remove what Freak installed? Either way, they were there yesterday afternoon, slighly more than 24 hours ago. I'm not convinced anyone removed anything. Where's the beef? Let Freak fend for himself. He doesn't seem to come around anymore. I wonder why?

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