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  1. #26
    bland
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    Still to long for me to read but it looks like a guy that can't work with the fs is trying to have a say in matters that he's not educated enough to understand. Am I wrong?

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by m77ranger View Post
    Still to long for me to read but it looks like a guy that can't work with the fs is trying to have a say in matters that he's not educated enough to understand. Am I wrong?
    Yeah, you're wrong. It reads like a guy whose wife is getting it somewhere else.
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by m77ranger View Post
    Still to long for me to read but it looks like a guy that can't work with the fs is trying to have a say in matters that he's not educated enough to understand. Am I wrong?
    77Ranger:

    Does the fact that I am not educated like you mean, that I am not entitled to get more educated about the subject matter being presented at the meeting about Sightings. You are a teacher, so explain how Sightings relate to a Trails Planning process?

  4. #29
    bland
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    If you want me to post about genetics I can do that all day because I know about that stuff. If you want me to post about the relationship between the FS, local tribes, and user groups I already gave my opinion. Right now I feel like I need training to deal with the mentally ill to post anything of use.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by m77ranger View Post
    If you want me to post about genetics I can do that all day because I know about that stuff. If you want me to post about the relationship between the FS, local tribes, and user groups I already gave my opinion. Right now I feel like I need training to deal with the mentally ill to post anything of use.
    77:

    We are just trying to find out what Sightings have to do with the archeological part of the Trails Planning process? Travis put the item in his presentation and I don't get why it was in there. The local Sedona mountain bike community that I have hung out with the last 13 years who have dealt with the FS for those 13 years and more have had similar questions, but never got clear answers either.

    Like this question. Dear Mr. or Mrs. Forest Service person you say you have a special designation for the Casner Canyon Area, something about studying AZ Cypress Trees. It seems this study area has been kept secret to you and us until the recent adoption of Hangover. Why have you not been doing the very important study on the AZ Cypress trees in that area and since you learned you have this study area are you now going to do this important study?

    What has happened here is that some renegade trail builders (Persons X,X & X) who knew nothing about such study area went out and built the most unbelievable trail right through the middle of the AZ Cypress forest in that area and then guys like you and ra went out and got your panties wet riding it.

    The hypocrisy about building trails then the yahoos who get to ride them is off the charts. This is all about the history of Sedona mountain biking and how it came about.

    So get this some riders are CONCERNED about how this unbelievable trail is going to hold up, so they go out and put in water diverters and other trail features to make the trail more sustainable. What is that about? Don't they know they are in a STUDY AREA?

    Everytime I ride the trail with my buddies I see some new sustainability feature being added to help the trail hold up to the masses of crazies riding that trail and you are one of those crazies who is clueless about all the work someone is doing to keep that trail in good shape. Those guys or gals should be given credit, but I don't think they want it, right?

    They know they are doing God's work, but they certainly don't want Ranger O'Neill or Jen (as you say) knowing about it. This is all about the process that everyone goes though to try and get to a stable period. You and I have come a long way, but we still have a little further to go.

    Now call up Travis and find out what his concerns are about the Sightings, and when you call in ask Jen when they are going to start this very important AZ Cypress study that they forgot about around 1997 or so.

    As a member of the local mountain bike community we feel the the Casner Study area was the Forest Services way of getting a Wilderness type area that they could restrict access or development. I am sure they never could believe mountain bikers were going to want to ride their bikes out there, God forbid that could ever happen.

    That place has so many Sighting opportunities, what would Travis and the tribal leaders think, would their concern level go off the Richter scale? Can you imagine Travis and the tribal representative hiking up that crazy trail and all of a sudden you and ra are flying down the steep ass slickrock waterfall. You have just barely squeezed by the difficult sketchy waterfall section yelling YAHOO. I would love a picture of that, and the concern on their faces?

    Come on man up as Paul B would say and find out the answers. Did you watch that NOVA program on the Neanderthal mixing with the human race, that was pretty amazing do you understand that whole thing? I felt pretty educated after that program.
    Last edited by traildoc; 01-21-2013 at 11:05 AM.

  6. #31
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    I can sense momma's hairy bacon getting cold!
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

  7. #32
    bland
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    Maybe when I retire I can spend as much time as you typing about things I don't understand but my time is limited so ill go ride.

  8. #33
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    Hey TD, hows your brother in laws progress coming on that cure for your mental illness you mentioned while on your banned tour?

    It's obviously needed.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillbo View Post
    Hey TD, hows your brother in laws progress coming on that cure for your mental illness you mentioned while on your banned tour?

    It's obviously needed.
    Phillbo, you already have your answer!


  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by m77ranger View Post
    Maybe when I retire I can spend as much time as you typing about things I don't understand but my time is limited so ill go ride.
    OK, I got that.

    As you have heard by now the FS is proposing the the closure of a number of really fun mountain bike trails that you and I have enjoyed over the last years. One of those trails has a bunch of cool sightings and travels through a heavy inhospital vegetative area that I certainly wouldn't want to live in.

    The FS says it has sustainability issues much less than other recently adopted user-built trails or other system trails, but it does have issues so any issue is a deal breaker unless it is one of Person X's trails, right?

    So the other issue is the Sightings and artifact issue. In our last meeting Travis had a chart of areas surrounding Sedona that he and the tribal leaders are concerned about having artifacts in them that they haven't searched for yet. These are called areas of CONCERN.

    It just happens this fun trail is routed though an area of concern as shown on the attached picture. These areas have not been investigated by the FS for artifacts but since Travis has said artifacts are everywhere in Sedona they must be in this same area and under 99.9% of the houses and roads in Sedona.

    Anyway the other day we went on a ride on this great trail before it is officially closed for all of the above perceived issues. While on the ride I noticed an extraordinary amount of recent hiker tracks. When we exited the trial onto a beautiful saddle with great Sightings, we met up with the owners of those hiking tracks: Lon, Lee and Howard. Howard is 86, Lee is 80 and Lon is 65. I doubt I will make it to 86, but if I do I want to hike that great trail when I am that age.

    OK we stop and chat and I always ask are you locals or from somewhere else? They said they were Flagstaff. I then asked how did you find out about this hike? They said Richard Mangum's hike book called Sedona Hikes.

    Wow you are kidding this hike is in that book?Well not really but the trail we are standing on in the picture certainly is. Now, I am flabbergasted this area of interest is in the Sedona Hike book. How can it be, that the author thought this was such a cool area that he put it in his book. And since it is such an area of FS CONCERN why hasn't Travis and Justin gone out on their precious weekend's and searched it for archeological stuff?

    Well I thought I would give the Honorable Richad Mangum a call and ask him about this great hike he put in his book. He said that yes the trail up to the site of the picture is actually a road. That road must be over 50 years old and yes he thinks the people who drove up their parked their vehicles and hiked up to the ruin on top of the Pyramid formation.

    He said the walls of the ruin are somewhat intact,but that the surrounding area was dug up and that any artifact of any significance is probably long gone. Who knows certainly 77Ranger and Travis might be able to figure that one out, but I would think their is a good chance nothing of any significance is going to be discovered there to help 77 find out anything more about his 45 generations of family members.

    Another thing the author said was that he did not think the ruin on top of the formation was a continual living residence, he thought there was a good chance the location was for security purposes. Since the creek was so close the tribe that lived in that area probably lived close to the creek where their crops were located, but that they had enemy's that might attack them so they put in a location near to them that they could run to in time of potential threat.

    OK what is this crazy rant about? I am concerned that there really aren't any artifacts around this site that would not allow a well thought trail system to exist. I also believe the sustainability of the trails surrounding that spot are more sustainable than Person X's trails and they should be added to the list of trails considered to be adoptable by the FS based on the trails they have recently adopted in the last three years.

    Without MTBR's help in allowing me to write about this the FS might just ignore the valid questions I have stated and just go out and close the trail like they did with Slim Shady and Made In the Shade over four years ago. Now those two trails are considered two of the best trails to be recently adopted. The FS has spent tens of thousands of dollars and hundreds of volunteer hours working on those trails why couldn't a lot less money and volunteer hours be spent on getting that trail adopted? Or better yet just leave it alone and forget it ever exists like Boogelicious?

    TD
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    Last edited by traildoc; 01-21-2013 at 02:26 PM.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    OK, I got that.


    The FS says it has sustainability issues much less than other recently adopted user-built trails or other system trails, but it does have issues so any issue is a deal breaker unless it is one of Person X's trails, right?

    So the other issue is the Sightings and artifact issue. In our last meeting Travis had a chart of areas surrounding Sedona that he and the tribal leaders are concerned about having artifacts in them that they haven't searched for yet. These are called areas of CONCERN.

    It just happens this fun trail is routed though an area of concern as shown on the attached picture. These areas have not been investigated by the FS for artifacts but since Travis has said artifacts are everywhere in Sedona they must be in this same area and under 99.9% of the houses and roads in Sedona.

    Anyway the other day we went on a ride on this great trail before it is officially closed for all of the above perceived issues. While on the ride I noticed an extraordinary amount of recent hiker tracks. When we exited the trial onto a beautiful saddle with great Sightings, we met up with the owners of those hiking tracks: Lon, Lee and Howard. Howard is 86, Lee is 80 and Lon is 65. I doubt I will make it to 86, but if I do I want to hike that great trail when I am that age.

    OK we stop and chat and I always ask are you locals or from somewhere else? They said they were Flagstaff. I then asked how did you find out about this hike? They said Richard Mangum's hike book called Sedona Hikes.

    Wow you are kidding this hike is in that book?Well not really but the trail we are standing on in the picture certainly is. Now, I am flabbergasted this area of interest is in the Sedona Hike book. How can it be, that the author thought this was such a cool area that he put it in his book. And since it is such an area of FS CONCERN why hasn't Travis and Justin gone out on their precious weekend's and searched it for archeological stuff?

    Well I thought I would give the Honorable Richad Mangum a call and ask him about this great hike he put in his book. He said that yes the trail up to the site of the picture is actually a road. That road must be over 50 years old and yes he thinks the people who drove up their parked their vehicles and hiked up to the ruin on top of the Pyramid formation.

    He said the walls of the ruin are somewhat intact,but that the surrounding area was dug up and that any artifact of any significance is probably long gone. Who knows certainly 77Ranger and Travis might be able to figure that one out, but I would think their is a good chance nothing of any significance is going to be discovered there to help 77 find out anything more about his 45 generations of family members.

    Another thing the author said was that he did not think the ruin on top of the formation was a continual living residence, he thought there was a good chance the location was for security purposes. Since the creek was so close the tribe that lived in that area probably lived close to the creek where their crops were located, but that they had enemy's that might attack them so they put in a location near to them that they could run to in time of potential threat.



    TD
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  12. #37
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    John, I'm still not reading your overly long posts and neither is anyone else. I think its funny that you spent all that time and energy into something nobody cares about while I was shredding BA, Sickboy, Whiteline, Flying Cherokee, Llama, High Line, and pig tail.

    Go get em tiger!

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by m77ranger View Post
    John, I'm still not reading your overly long posts and neither is anyone else. I think its funny that you spent all that time and energy into something nobody cares about while I was shredding BA, Sickboy, Whiteline, Flying Cherokee, Llama, High Line, and pig tail.

    Go get em tiger!
    Ryan, I am a simple person on a simple mission which to see that you enjoy your riding in Sedona. Obviously the riding is better here than it is in Flagstaff. I hope I live long enough to ride that new DH trail you are going to build this spring.

    Isn't it amazing that your friend Jen still lets you ride those first three user built trails you just listed. I have to give you a hand for going out there riding those really cool 3%'er trails.

    When we get to the trail part of the RTCA Trail Planning Process a couple months from now, I will certainly bring up those three trails to see what Jen's position is on those fun trails. Are there any others you want me to bring up.

    If we ever get to the point of no more cross country travel in Sedona we are all going to be depressed. For now it's game on so have fun

  14. #39
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    I guess I've always missed this point...if there is cool old stuff to look at or know about I want to know about it instead of have it hidden...BTW the only Indians that I have ridden with are the Yazzis and NOD and it seems that these younger generations would rather play in the woods then preserve old stuff that everyone is afraid to uncover and look at and educate us about...It could be me...but isn't the FS supposed to utilize the land for the many...not the few or the dead??? And to make it seem that we US Gov't cares after we have stolen all the land and then tried to mine the land we gave the Indians and then we fight in court for years to ruin the sli resort with pipes and pupu water is simply insanity...

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by SedonaGnarlyCrew View Post
    I guess I've always missed this point...if there is cool old stuff to look at or know about I want to know about it instead of have it hidden...BTW the only Indians that I have ridden with are the Yazzis and NOD and it seems that these younger generations would rather play in the woods then preserve old stuff that everyone is afraid to uncover and look at and educate us about...It could be me...but isn't the FS supposed to utilize the land for the many...not the few or the dead??? And to make it seem that we US Gov't cares after we have stolen all the land and then tried to mine the land we gave the Indians and then we fight in court for years to ruin the sli resort with pipes and pupu water is simply insanity...

    SGC:

    Indians what are Indians there are native Americans and there is 77Ranger he is the super duper native American that is a very skilled mountain biker? Thank God we have Ranger to get us all those answers the FS doesn't want to respond to. At least you get something back from him, it's not like asking Justin a question. Where it goes into a black hole and stays there forever. We all love you Justin you just need to be a little bit more forthcoming with my mentally challenged questions.

    TD

  16. #41
    bland
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    Ryan, I am a simple person on a simple mission which to see that you enjoy your riding in Sedona. Obviously the riding is better here than it is in Flagstaff. I hope I live long enough to ride that new DH trail you are going to build this spring.

    Isn't it amazing that your friend Jen still lets you ride those first three user built trails you just listed. I have to give you a hand for going out there riding those really cool 3%'er trails.

    When we get to the trail part of the RTCA Trail Planning Process a couple months from now, I will certainly bring up those three trails to see what Jen's position is on those fun trails. Are there any others you want me to bring up.

    If we ever get to the point of no more cross country travel in Sedona we are all going to be depressed. For now it's game on so have fun
    You made a post short enough to read! You are making progress John! The next step is making rational posts. I believe in you John. You can overcome!

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    SGC:

    Indians what are Indians there are native Americans and there is 77Ranger he is the super duper native American that is a very skilled mountain biker? Thank God we have Ranger to get us all those answers the FS doesn't want to respond to. At least you get something back from him, it not like asking Justin a question. Where it goes into a black hole and stays there forever. We all love you Justin you just need to be a little bit more forthcoming with my mentally challenged questions.

    TD
    Your still talking?!?! Dang your skull is thick.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by m77ranger View Post
    You made a post short enough to read! You are making progress John! The next step is making rational posts. I believe in you John. You can overcome!
    Ranger you are a great teacher with your guidance I think I can get a C in the class. That would be the best grade I ever got. I may never graduate, but with your guidance I think I can do anything I set my mind to.

    I have decided to expand my horizons and make the best Arizona map product ever produced. My dream is to have as many popular AZ riding areas as I can GPS before I am to old to ride.

    What I am having an issue with is the retail cost of the product. There will be thousands of hours invested in product development, so it won't be free like my original maps. The other part is whether to stay with GPS or try the Smart Phone thing. I can't really rely on the Smart Phone to be that accurate at this point in time, so I will probably stick with the GPS for now. The GPS battery life is longer and the tracks seem to be way more accurate for now.

    TD

  19. #44
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    Your geriatrician can prescribe hormone replacement therapy and your washing machine will last a lot longer.
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

  20. #45
    bland
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    Ranger you are a great teacher with your guidance I think I can get a C in the class. That would be the best grade I ever got. I may never graduate, but with your guidance I think I can do anything I set my mind to.

    I have decided to expand my horizons and make the best Arizona map product ever produced. My dream is to have as many popular AZ riding areas as I can GPS before I am to old to ride.

    What I am having an issue with is the retail cost of the product. There will be thousands of hours invested in product development, so it won't be free like my original maps. The other part is whether to stay with GPS or try the Smart Phone thing. I can't really rely on the Smart Phone to be that accurate at this point in time, so I will probably stick with the GPS for now. The GPS battery life is longer and the tracks seem to be way more accurate for now.

    TD
    D. You can do better.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    As you have heard by now the FS is proposing the the closure of a number of really fun mountain bike trails that you and I have enjoyed over the last years.
    If your words are any indication of how you are in person ... I'd close the entire State down, if I had to deal with you ALL THE TIME.

    Go ride your bike, and leave your self-appointed position under a rock.

  22. #47
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    Ranger, can you please explain how putting the pipes and pupu snow on the sacred mtn is Ok and fighting over and over in court to do this and somehow putting a trail near some artifact that no one but some archeologist knows about is not....This is simply beyond my comprehension...also in Sedona if the FS wants to put a parking lot in at lets say chimney rock...they hide the fact that it is full of shards and artifacts, but when a trail goes through a lesser type of artifact area that it is the end of the world and cause to close all user built trails...btw everyone...pardon my fopa...Native Americans...not Indians...Indians are in Cleveland and play baseball or in Washington DC and play football
    Last edited by HowdyDoody; 01-22-2013 at 04:59 AM. Reason: spelling

  23. #48
    bland
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    Quote Originally Posted by SedonaGnarlyCrew View Post
    Ranger, can you please explain how putting the pipes and pupu snow on the sacred mtn is Ok and fighting over and over in court to do this and somehow putting a trail near some artifact that no one but some archeologist knows about is not....This is simply beyond my comprehension...also in Sedona if the FS wants to put a parking lot in at lets say chimney rock...they hide the fact that it is full of shards and artifacts, but when a trail goes through a lesser type of artifact area that it is the end of the world and cause to close all user built trails...btw everyone...pardon my fopa...Native Americans...not Indians...Indians are in Cleveland and play baseball or in Washington DC and play football
    What?

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by SedonaGnarlyCrew View Post
    Ranger, can you please explain how putting the pipes and pupu snow on the sacred mtn is Ok and fighting over and over in court to do this and somehow putting a trail near some artifact that no one but some archeologist knows about is not....This is simply beyond my comprehension...also in Sedona if the FS wants to put a parking lot in at lets say chimney rock...they hide the fact that it is full of shards and artifacts, but when a trail goes through a lesser type of artifact area that it is the end of the world and cause to close all user built trails...btw everyone...pardon my fopa...Native Americans...not Indians...Indians are in Cleveland and play baseball or in Washington DC and play football
    Reason: spelling? Bwwwaaaahahahahahaaaaaaaa, more like reason:incomprehensible!
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrwhlr View Post
    Reason: spelling? Bwwwaaaahahahahahaaaaaaaa, more like reason:incomprehensible!
    Quite a few spelling errrors in his new book as well. A good read from a safety break POV but the present trail situation in Sedona is only an afterthought in the last chapter.

    And religious issues aside, how is it any different sprayng reclaimed water on ski slopes different than golf courses and school lawns?

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