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  1. #1
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    Western Gateway Project

    Today I received a flyer from the Western Gateway Project program asking for donations for the approval and construction process which is estimated to be $600,000. The total mileage for this project is estimated to be 27 miles of which 7 miles is already completed.

    I have personally noted several miles of blue taped alignment on some major connector and re-routes to the user created Western Civilization trail. There is also going to be a major reroute of the Girdner trail to eliminate the numerous crossings of Dry Creek. Also proposed are trails for lesser skilled riders which is badly needed in the Sedona area.

    Please donate to this worthwhile project or volunteer for the numerous volunteer days that will be happening to make the project a reality.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Western Gateway Project Donation-western-gateway-project-donation.jpg  

    Last edited by Switchblade2; 12-25-2017 at 09:58 PM.

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    I already donated to the RRTF this year. How about you Switch?

    I'll miss the backcountry feel to the trails in that area. With that proposal comes a paved trailhead with pit toilets. And hikers. But, the trail plan was pretty cool. I hope everything that is getting routed is what was in the plan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    I already donated to the RRTF this year. How about you Switch?

    I'll miss the backcountry feel to the trails in that area. With that proposal comes a paved trailhead with pit toilets. And hikers. But, the trail plan was pretty cool. I hope everything that is getting routed is what was in the plan.
    Rock as you know I donít donate to the RRTF. I believe donating is for people who donít contribute as volunteer trail builders on the new project. I am assuming that the total cost on this project would be around $700,000 and the USFS is expecting to get around $100,000 in volunteer help.

    I would be more than willing to build one mile of trail similar to the Aerire trail that was 2.7 miles long. That would be a $21,120 contribution at $4 a foot. I would challenge other users who donít have jobs to offer the same.

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    Switch you have a funny way of convincing folks to donate money but here's the map with proposed trails and realignments.

    Western Gateway Project Donation-2016_rr_trail_scoping_map_page_1.jpg

    More info here: https://www.vvcc.us/news/4758612
    Map: https://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE...eprd489165.pdf

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    rock they have a better map on the VVCC wepsite see if you can post that. I am hoping the first trail could be the Girdner Reroute then Timís Connector.

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    And dumb it down for the geriatric biddy crew.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Switchblade2 View Post
    rock they have a better map on the VVCC wepsite see if you can post that. I am hoping the first trail could be the Girdner Reroute then Timís Connector.
    There's a bunch of maps in the VVCC link posted above. For anyone interested that is and willing to click the mouse once or twice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    There's a bunch of maps in the VVCC link posted above. For anyone interested that is and willing to click the mouse once or twice.
    OK this is the map on the VVCC website that gives the approximate location of the new proposed system trails. There aren't any names given to the new proposed and existing trails on the Western Gateway Project Map. The existing trails like Girdner aren't included so it is difficult to know precisely where the new trails and existing triails are located. The dark brown line is the new Girdner reroute out of the Dry Creek area. This will certainly will improve the user experience for mountain bikers and hikers during heavy rainy periods like we had last year. Crossing Dry Creek wash about eight times was a little challenging.

    There also seems to be some kind of new or re-route trail in turquoise blue near the Girdner climb heading southwest out of the Girdner Wash. that should offer a more enjoyable climb out of the Dry Creek Wash area,
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Western Gateway Project Donation-western-gateway-map.jpg  


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    For those riders who are familiar with the Western Gateway area there will be a re-route of the northern portion of the Western Civilization trail starting off Cockscomb near the south end of the Aerie Development. Unfortunately the north end of West Civ is routed through the top of a private property section near the Old Homestead.

    If you are familiar with that area many historic horse trails emanated from the homestead out to various portions in that area due to the grazing of cattle. Now the FS is going to re-route the West Civ trail (purple) on the west side of Cockscomb to avoid the private property. It's a shame that the trail will no longer be near the homestead where we have taken many breaks on our riding adventures in that area.

    It also looks like Plumber Phil and the FS has developed a parallel green trail next to the re-routed West Civ trail. I assume that is some kind of hikers trail to take them to the Cockscomb formation. Currently there are all kinds of hiking trails getting the the Cockscomb formation.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Western Gateway Project Donation-western-gate.jpg  

    Western Gateway Project Donation-western-gateway-map-1.jpg  


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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillbo View Post
    And dumb it down for the geriatric biddy crew.
    I wouldn't call a reroute on Girdner dumbing it down at all, it just sucks but each his own I guess.

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    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona View Post
    I wouldn't call a reroute on Girdner dumbing it down at all, it just sucks but each his own I guess.
    ra certainly a reroute of Girdner is going to be a good thing especially during wet winters. It seems like a pretty significant build in the steep rocky sections. I am looking forward to seeing how those difficult sections are built. It will be interesting what they do with the existing trail.

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    Today we went out on our typical Sunday local's group ride. We actually had a quest on this ride he was from Alberta and has decided to spend four months in Sedona to enjoy the warm weather and great trail conditions. On the ride today we headed out to the Western Gateway are to hunt down Plumber Phil's blue tape markings which indicate where the new trail will be route in 2018.

    Attached is a map of the historic equestrian trail (green line) and a picture of the blue flag marking where the new system trail may be located. The flag is located on the historic equestrian trail that basically runs from the Color Cove residential area to the Historic Homestead. That current route is somewhat eroded due to years and years of fast moving water on a slightly downhill incline and the pounding from horses hooves over the last 60 years.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Western Gateway Project Donation-horse-trail.jpg  

    Western Gateway Project Donation-horse-2.jpg  


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    Quote Originally Posted by Switchblade2 View Post
    Today I received a flyer from the Western Gateway Project program asking for donations for the approval and construction process which is estimated to be $600,000. The total mileage for this project is estimated to be 27 miles of which 7 miles is already completed.
    I remember putting together a quote for expenses to build the 5 mile Soldiers Trail at Fort Tuthill. After considering the hours of work on the ground to find the park boundaries and to seek out the best features to route the trail through, and the time to draw up a design, and to purchase needed tools specific for the project, and the cost of the ten person trail crew working ten hours a day for five or more weeks, with additional cost for a supervisor (me), I walked into office of the county parks supervisor and asked him if he would write a check for $300 to cover the cost of a pole saw and several corona loppers. Once he agreed, I told him I was ready to begin work the following day.

    Did I underbid the work or has there been some serious inflation over the past 18 years?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boris Badenov View Post
    I remember putting together a quote for expenses to build the 5 mile Soldiers Trail at Fort Tuthill. After considering the hours of work on the ground to find the park boundaries and to seek out the best features to route the trail through, and the time to draw up a design, and to purchase needed tools specific for the project, and the cost of the ten person trail crew working ten hours a day for five or more weeks, with additional cost for a supervisor (me), I walked into office of the county parks supervisor and asked him if he would write a check for $300 to cover the cost of a pole saw and several corona loppers. Once he agreed, I told him I was ready to begin work the following day.

    Did I underbid the work or has there been some serious inflation over the past 18 years?
    Did you also bid and build a paved trailhead with pit toilets? I think that's in the plan for the Girdner trailhead at the old Cultural Center. Just guess but I suspect they are going to hire ACE to build the trails. The FS trail crew has their hands full with basic maintenance on the existing sytsem trails. I don't know that for sure but can ask.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    Did you also bid and build a paved trailhead with pit toilets? I think that's in the plan for the Girdner trailhead at the old Cultural Center. Just guess but I suspect they are going to hire ACE to build the trails. The FS trail crew has their hands full with basic maintenance on the existing sytsem trails. I don't know that for sure but can ask.
    rock do you know where the paved area and pit toilets are going to be located? The Dry Creek Vista parking lot came from a grant. I will always remember the look Jennifer and Heather had when I asked them if that parking area was successful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Switchblade2 View Post
    rock do you know where the paved area and pit toilets are going to be located? The Dry Creek Vista parking lot came from a grant. I will always remember the look Jennifer and Heather had when I asked them if that parking area was successful.
    At the Girdner trailhead at the old Cultural Center? That was the plan anyway. Not sure what your point is with Dry Creek Vista. Seems pretty successful as far as trailheads go. That place is always packed. Maybe you judge success and how the USFS is meeting the needs of the hordes flocking to Sedona differently?

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    rock I knew it was very successful because it was in the middle of a bunch of popular trails and access to Devils Bridge, but a highly successful trailhead means a lot more work for the FS. Signage, lost hikers, braided social trails leading to and from the parking area, worn trails, illegal tours, litter, etc. I still donít think they charge a parking fee there. Seems like a big revenue potential from visitors.

    It will be interesting how many users will be hikers compared to bikers. How many lesser skilled ridŤrs will use the easy trail system?

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    So I am kind of curious about this part of the Western G.ateway Project. There sure seems like a lot of trails with parallel trails next to them. The red trail must be some kind of beginner/intermediate trail. I think the turquoise and purple trails are part of Ledge'n'Airy. The light brown trail seems to be Last Frontier, Draino, Ledge'n'Airy and a reroute of the current exit through the Cultural Center.

    The terrain on the west side of the Cultural Center has a lot of up and down sections. It should be interesting how all the spaghetti in the bottom right hand corner fits together. It looks like the main exit of five trails will be at the current gate blocking the entrance of the gravel pit.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Western Gateway Project Donation-western-gate-cc.jpg  


  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Switchblade2 View Post
    rock I knew it was very successful because it was in the middle of a bunch of popular trails and access to Devils Bridge, but a highly successful trailhead means a lot more work for the FS. Signage, lost hikers, braided social trails leading to and from the parking area, worn trails, illegal tours, litter, etc. I still donít think they charge a parking fee there. Seems like a big revenue potential from visitors.
    Red Rock Pass Bro. You probably don't have one since you ride from your house. Unless the TH is being run by a concessionaire they don't charge parking fees. But you knew that already.

    Quote Originally Posted by Switchblade2 View Post
    It looks like the main exit of five trails will be at the current gate blocking the entrance of the gravel pit.
    Duh, you don't suppose they would put a trailhead there with parking and pit toilets? Don't worry it won't contribute to the national debt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    Red Rock Pass Bro. You probably don't have one since you ride from your house. Unless the TH is being run by a concessionaire they don't charge parking fees. But you knew that already.



    Duh, you don't suppose they would put a trailhead there with parking and pit toilets? Don't worry it won't contribute to the national debt.
    rock I am surprised you wouldn't think I was supportive of the Red Rock Parking Pass. Due to my free shuttle and tour business I use the pass to park at parking lots like Cresent Moon Ranch, Grasshopper and West Fork which need the combo $40 Green Pass. The pass also allows parking at all the Red Rock trailheads that have restrooms. Whenever I park at the Cultural Center my group, if needed, uses the four Cultural Center restrooms.

    I am curious how popular the new parking and restroom area will be? I wonder what they will call it? Maybe Plumbers Parking since he did all the trail routing and it looks like they are making Plumbers Crack (rose colored) into a system trail? Too bad the whole Cultural Center land ownership is so screwed up. It sure would make for a great boon dock camping area for a bunch of dirt bag mountain bikers now that there is going to be a pit toilet there. It is amazing how the PROCESS is progressing.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Western Gateway Project Donation-pass.jpg  

    Western Gateway Project Donation-plumbers-crack.jpg  


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    How about Western Gateway TH for a name? Nice of you to consider naming it after your good friend Phil. Hey, did you get some proper seating in the back of your tour van or are you still using lawn chairs?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    Did you also bid and build a paved trailhead with pit toilets? I think that's in the plan for the Girdner trailhead at the old Cultural Center. Just guess but I suspect they are going to hire ACE to build the trails. The FS trail crew has their hands full with basic maintenance on the existing sytsem trails. I don't know that for sure but can ask.
    Oddly, we got a prison crew to come out to Tuthill and help tear down the campground showers and toilets, with no plan to construct new ones. They also helped do thinning. I recall one of them taking down a huge ponderosa, maybe 120 feet tall. I mentioned it looked like it would fall into a second tree and possible knock the top 30 feet off of it, creating a dangerous situation. I strongly suggested finding something to hide behind. Sure enough, the big tree hit the smaller tree and a 300 pound section went straight toward all of us. We dove behind a split bottom tree and the broken section went right through the gap and missed killing the Sawyer by inches. They thought it was all fun and games.

    Then we routed the trail we were building exactly where I had place the flagging, only it turned out I never looked at property lines out there. I assumed the parks land ended where there was an old collapsed fence. I was wrong and we not only built the trail onto private property, we also thinned a lot of trees from that guys land. He wasn't happy, but we probably saved him from having to hire a thinning crew. The Soldiers Trail is not much of a trail, but it was always one of the first to dry after snows melted, and was a gateway to Rogers Lake, which I understand now has single track trails near it.

    I should have started something called a low budget trail crew, for cheap land managers. Use my fully funded Americorps Crews to undercut other trail builders. Not sure if that would have been legal. Not that being legal was ever much of a concern back then.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Switchblade2 View Post
    So I am kind of curious about this part of the Western G.ateway Project. There sure seems like a lot of trails with parallel trails next to them. The red trail must be some kind of beginner/intermediate trail. I think the turquoise and purple trails are part of Ledge'n'Airy. The light brown trail seems to be Last Frontier, Draino, Ledge'n'Airy and a reroute of the current exit through the Cultural Center.

    The terrain on the west side of the Cultural Center has a lot of up and down sections. It should be interesting how all the spaghetti in the bottom right hand corner fits together. It looks like the main exit of five trails will be at the current gate blocking the entrance of the gravel pit.
    I like to start my ride on Plumbers Crack and then work my way over to Lizardhead, but that has always required a couple miles going through what is the name? Something cove, and then out the busy road to get onto Lizardhead to continue the long loop around and back to the cultural center.

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    According to the USFS Recreation Program Manager the $600k includes $350k for the trail system and $250k for initial trailhead expansion/development. I'm not sure if that actually means paved parking with restrooms or whether Switchblade can still illegally dirt bag camp within city limits.

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    The numbers can be staggering. I spoke to someone about the Phoenix Sonoran Preserve, regarding future expansion. They told me they spent $165 million dollars on the 7 mile long parkway that splits the preserve and leases to the Apache Wash Trailhead. After that, I'm guessing they had just a few hundred thousand left over to build the current trails system.

    A neighbor took me out on a trail that starts in a neighborhood next to the preserve, and runs around a mountain and then climbs up it past several switchbacks, maybe 1.25 miles, and then dead-ends. He said it has been like that for many years. The city just never connected all the feeder trails and has lost interest, or decided it's time to spend money on other preserves like South Mountain. It's amazing to look at the cost of a road and a parking lot and restrooms, compared to the cost of building trails. I might have to hold a bake sale to pay for more trails.

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    rock what I am curious about are all the ology reports and the CE or NEPA? Do you have any intel on whatís going on there? When I did the FOIA on the previous comment period, I think they got 14 total comments. Since they are collecting money has all the paperwork been satisfied?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Switchblade2 View Post
    rock what I am curious about are all the ology reports and the CE or NEPA? Do you have any intel on whatís going on there? When I did the FOIA on the previous comment period, I think they got 14 total comments. Since they are collecting money has all the paperwork been satisfied?
    I'm not sure but they're hoping to break ground Sept 2018 so I would imagine the NEPA studies are still on-going. But if they're fund-raising it sounds like a green light to me. As for the Cultural Center the reply I got is that they havenít done design work on the trailhead improvements yet and they were going to start building the trail system first. Eventually, the TH will include paving of some sort, vault toilet, kiosk, etc. but since current parking isn't an issue it's lower priority.

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    I out today doing some adventure riding trying to ascertain where Plumber Phil is routing the proposed Girdner realignment project. I figured he had to cross a significant wash at some point rode so I down a wash that leads out of the Foothills North gated residential area.

    That wash receives a large amount of runoff from the streets, driveways and roofs in the Foothill project. There is so much additional runoff from the residential area during heavy rain periods that it has created drainages ten feet deep or more in the sensitive soils area NW of the houses.

    During heavy rain periods this crossing could be interesting. I look forward to following the flagging in the next couple months. This new re-route is going to have many challenging build sections. Since it is close to the Color Cove residential area that caters to equestrians, there could be lots of horses on the re-route.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Western Gateway Project Donation-its-1.jpg  

    Western Gateway Project Donation-its-2.jpg  

    Western Gateway Project Donation-its-3.jpg  


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    To celebrate Christmas my friends and I did a ride out in the Western Gateway Project area today. About halfway through the ride we spotted some Plumber Phil blue trail marking flags heading south. Rather than continuing the Christmas ride with my friends I decided to follow the blue flags.

    As I followed the flags I thought it would be pretty easy building the initial section of trail I was riding on. It seemed like with a little brushing and some raking with a Mcleod you could easily have a new trail. After riding for about a 1/3 of a mile the trail turned to the right and headed somewhat downhill. After about a 1/4 mile the blue flags turned left and headed down a narrow wash. The wash will be tricky to build a trail but with lots of money it is doable. After about 200 yards the narrow wash interested a big wash.

    The blue flags headed upstream and down stream so I tossed a coin and headed up stream to a dead end. So I turned around and headed down stream in the actual wash. It was pretty wide and easy to ride in. Once I reached the narrow wash I had come down earlier, I picked up the blue flags again and continued downstream through a pretty tough build section. At one point the trail dropped off a big boulder into the wash then cut right and bordered the right side of the wash until it intersected with a much bigger wash that we have ridden on several adventure rides.

    The blue flags continued upstream on the right side for about 1/3 mile before cutting left across the wash to the other side. From that point the trail headed uphill at a somewhat gradual grade until it intersected a popular user created trail.

    From the pictures I posted can anyone figure what newly proposed trail I was following? Three of the pictures indicate three different land marks that can help in determining which new trail this is going to be. After riding and walking the new alignment I would call the trail AMAZING.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Western Gateway Project Donation-n10.jpg  

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    Western Gateway Project Donation-n1.jpg  


  30. #30
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    West Dry Creek trail? Kind of along a similar alignment of Outer and Inner Necessity or whatever the old homesteader called his equestrian trail.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    West Dry Creek trail? Kind of along a similar alignment of Outer and Inner Necessity or whatever the old homesteader called his equestrian trail.
    rock I was going to disqualify you because you are way too knowledgeable about the Sedona landmarks and geology but you are correct. It seems like Phil is using parts of the historic fence line trail (Green line to blueish line intersecting West Civ) off of Rupp to get to where my pictures start.

    It should be a pretty easy build except for the three different wash areas that have significant rock work and benching. The area is somewhat remote, so an ACE crew that could camp out for about a week should get the job done.

    I would be happy to volunteer on the easy part. I could probably construct about 1/2 mile myself. At $3 a foot that would be a $7,920 donation. What a Country!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Western Gateway Project Donation-western-gateway-map-1.jpg  


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    I really think three big winners because of the new twenty seven miles of Western Gateway system trails will be Trail Sports, Over the Edge and Fat Tire bikes. All three of those shops do bike rentals. Trail Sports is the closest at about 1/2 mile to the new trailhead and Over the Edge is about 1 mile. Both those locations are close enough to pedal to the the new trailhead at the Cultural Center.

    Fat Tire Bike is about three miles from the new trailhead, so I doubt hourly renters will rent from them. Fat Tire only does rentals by reservation where Trail Sports and Over the Edge do walk in rentals. Fat Tire only does high end Ibis rentals where Trail Sports and Over the Edge have high end and entry level bikes for rent.

  33. #33
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    Fund raising to date.

    Goal: $75,000.00

    Collected: $13,426.08

    More info here: https://www.vvcc.us/page-18157

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    rockman I am curious about VVCC's comment in their donation request where they say "Spring/Summer 2018-complete planning" then "Fall/Winter 2018-begin construction". Does that mean all the trails shown on the map will be flagged by the USFS and Plumber Phil so that in the Fall/Winter of 2018 the trail construction will definitely begin?

    Is there anything that could stop the beginning of construction on September 22, 2018? For example is there going to be a NEPA or is Categorical Exclusion (CE) going to be used to allow the construction of the trails?

    If I was the person in charge of the project the first trail I would build would be the Red Trail starting at the gravel pit road gate. This trail could easily be accessed by local volunteers and USFS personnel. Due to the flat terrain in that area I assume the trail is going to be a beginner trail. Most people know Sedona lacks beginner trails and that trail would be a good first start. Actually due to the flat terrain I doubt there is going to be very little bench cut to make the trail tread.

    I also doubt their would be much tree cutting to construct the trail. All brush cutting could easily be accomplished with loppers of hand saws. I would imagine a group of ten volunteers could construct the majority of that trail in three eight hour days of work. If it was only volunteers who were doing the work with one USFS supervisor you could complete the construction of that trail for under $2,000.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Western Gateway Project Donation-western-gateway-planning.jpg  

    Western Gateway Project Donation-western-gateway-easy.jpg  


  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Switchblade2 View Post
    rockman I am curious about VVCC's comment in their donation request where they say "Spring/Summer 2018-complete planning" then "Fall/Winter 2018-begin construction". Does that mean all the trails shown on the map will be flagged by the USFS and Plumber Phil so that in the Fall/Winter of 2018 the trail construction will definitely begin?

    Is there anything that could stop the beginning of construction on September 22, 2018? For example is there going to be a NEPA or is Categorical Exclusion (CE) going to be used to allow the construction of the trails?

    If I was the person in charge of the project the first trail I would build would be the Red Trail starting at the gravel pit road gate. This trail could easily be accessed by local volunteers and USFS personnel. Due to the flat terrain in that area I assume the trail is going to be a beginner trail. Most people know Sedona lacks beginner trails and that trail would be a good first start. Actually due to the flat terrain I doubt there is going to be very little bench cut to make the trail tread.

    I also doubt their would be much tree cutting to construct the trail. All brush cutting could easily be accomplished with loppers of hand saws. I would imagine a group of ten volunteers could construct the majority of that trail in three eight hour days of work. If it was only volunteers who were doing the work with one USFS supervisor you could complete the construction of that trail for under $2,000.
    Switch, I believe they are doing an EA and not a CE. Why don't you direct your questions to Dan B. He is the VVCC go-to on the project and is taking the lead along with Kevin A. to raise funds for construction, once NEPA is done. You and your wife ride with him, no?

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    Switch, I believe they are doing an EA and not a CE. Why don't you direct your questions to Dan B. He is the VVCC go-to on the project and is taking the lead along with Kevin A. to raise funds for construction, once NEPA is done. You and your wife ride with him, no?
    rock I have asked Dan questions in the past and to be honest with you he wasnít forthcoming with any useful information. Neither he or the V.P. have better information than you do. If the VVCC had their act together they would have a FAQ for the Western Gateway Project.

    I would much rather go to you for the more informative questions.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Switchblade2 View Post
    rock I have asked Dan questions in the past and to be honest with you he wasnít forthcoming with any useful information. Neither he or the V.P. have better information than you do. If the VVCC had their act together they would have a FAQ for the Western Gateway Project.

    I would much rather go to you for the more informative questions.
    Well that's very flattering but I don't know anything either. I suppose folks had their chance to ask questions during the public comment period. Or, maybe VVCC would more forthcoming with information if you donated to the project or perhaps even considered becoming a member?

    On a side note I did find it interesting that they canceled their IMBA chapter status. Do you know why?

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    rock for me personally joining the VVCC would be a waste of time. After I die you will find out why.

    I believe all our Sedona trails should be constructed by the people who use them.
    Last edited by Switchblade2; 01-01-2018 at 10:16 PM.

  39. #39
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    SB2; you should be in Washington DC; yer wasting yer few yrs left in Sedona!
    Cheers.
    TS

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Transition Senior View Post
    SB2; you should be in Washington DC; yer wasting yer few yrs left in Sedona!
    Cheers.
    TS
    Thanks for the good advice TS. I am trying to follow your lead in the advocating of well thought out trail concepts like you have been doing in Gold Canyon for quite sometime now. What you and several others have created is truly amazing. You have done it all with volunteer help. There has never been one cent of government help in creating new trails, maintaining existing trails and rerouting of poorly routed trails. You have been one of the biggest catalysts for the positive changes that have taken place at GC. There are also others like K who goes out on his own and creates masterpieces. The two of you should be honored for all your hard work and kissing SALTS butt.

  41. #41
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    The blue tape picture marks the southwest reroute (brown line) right at the existing Girdner trail just before the rough rocky descent to the Dry Creek Wash Area. After following the blue tape markings to the significant wash that comes from the Northwoods residential area the reroute petered out. It would seem like the reroute should head over the saddle below the northwest end of the Color Cove complex, but no matter how much I tried I couldn't locate the blue tape markings. It will be interesting to see where the Plumber's actual route is located.
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    Today after the Sedona Sunday Johnny's Garage ride, my wife and I stopped at the Once Cultural Center to check out the Plumber Phil Easy ride (red line). We started hiking on the south side of the Interpretive Trail. After about two minutes we located the fist blue flag in the middle of a huge bush.

    We walked around the bush and started following the new line (orange). After walking for a minute or so I soon realized we were heading south and downhill. This had to be the new main connector over to the current Ledge 'n' Airy trail. Since I wasn't interested in seeing the Ledge 'n' Airy connector we turned back and headed uphill to the Easy trail (red).

    I looked all over for the blue flags marking the clockwise direction for Easy trail and didn't find anything. Instead of giving up my wife and I continued hiking what should have been the proposed Easy trail. I soon realized the terrain for the proposed trail was pretty mellow and would be easy to construct a trail on. While walking what could be the proposed alignment we found numerous user created trails that I had never ridden previously, Some had bike tracks and hiker prints others looked to be constructed by hikers only. I was amazed how many of those user created trails were out on the proposed Easy trail alignment.

    When we got near the Gravel Pit I cut north and tried to pick up some blue flags. We crossed over the gravel pit road and tried to pick up some blue flagging to show where the proposed Easy trail would be routed. All of a sudden we came across a purple colored tape that looked weathered and was possibly blue previously. The landscape looked perfect to construct a lessor skilled trail so we continued in a easterly direction parallel to the existing Girdner (brown) trail.

    While continuing walking back towards our starting point I noticed several other older looking purple flags. The last one ended up being close to the existing Girdner trail which leads back to the Once Cultural Center dirt parking lot.

    I could only think this was one of Plumber Phil's masterpieces that he has dreamed about for years. Now due to the Western Gateway Project his Easy trail dream was possible going to be constructed in the Fall of 2018.

    Previously I estimated that the trail construction would take a ten person volunteer crew three eight hour days to construct the trail. I would think it wouldn't take more than two eight hour days for the ten person volunteer crew.
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    Today the Jonny's Garage Sunday ride decided to try and find the Plumber Phil entrance to the Sh!thole Reroute trail (light blue) which replaces the current Sh!thole southern entrance to Last Frontier which is slated for adoption in 2018. The new Sh!thole route starts close to where Tim's Wash intersects Dry Creek Wash and the proposed Girdner Reroute trial.

    It was a little difficult to find the proposed trail since the topo map of the proposed new trails doesn't show existing trails, but we were all up for the challenge and after about 20 minutes we located the first blue flag on the northwest side of Dry Creek. It is actually a pretty cool spot to exit Dry Creek because it passes a huge piece of very smooth sand stone rock that can be used as a break spot. From there the proposed trail winds uphill towards the Power Line easement.

    At one point the proposed Sh!thole trail crosses a significant wash that we have been riding for years. it is pretty amazing that Plumber Phil would pick this spot to route his masterpiece. One thing we like about this spot is that it's like being out in the Wilderness with no hikers wandering around. It's very quiet and there and there is lots of wildlife to watch transit the area. As we have learned wildlife does not fear mountain bikers like they do hikers.

    This is going to be a difficult build area, so the USFS needs lots of donations to construct the trail right next to this huge wash. We all love riding washes so rather then folowing the blue flags next to the wash we just rode up the wash until we got to the spot the flags cross the wash and heads to Western Civilization.The proposed trail exits onto Western Civilization about 100 north of the Gas Line easement,
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  44. #44
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    OK I went out around noon today to find the Plumber Phil blue tape marking off of the Cockscomb trail near the paved road leading out of the south end of the Aerie Development project to the 72 acre $12,000,000 parcel. As you can see on the map there is a green takeoff point next to the old jeep road which is now a paved road.

    The takeoff point was pretty easy to find since I had run into Phil, Forest and Kyle there a month or so ago with kind of weird looks on their faces. Phil has a beard now, but he had his dogs with him so I figured out who it was. His dogs were off leash. so technically Forest and Kyle who are USFS rangers could have him cited by the USFS Law Enforcement, but since he was Jennifer's boyfriend back in the early days of user created trails he is Teflon coated.

    The pictures show how the new proposed Green trail heads down to the Historic Equestrian trail where it T's with another Historic Green trail. The terrain looks like it would be an easy build and I would think a five man volunteer crew could build the upper section in two days or less. I think the section that goes out to Rupp would also be a pretty easy build.

    I should have checked out the two proposed routes on the northwest side of Cockscomb, but it started snowing so I headed home.
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  45. #45

  46. #46
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    Good article, too bad the USFS moves so slow on these kinds of projects. The trail building conditions have been excellent this winter. Volunteers have been working every week at the Sedona Bike Skills Park (https://www.facebook.com/FriendsOfSedonaBikeSkillsPark/ ) without supervision from the land manager.

    There is obviously plenty of talented trail builders in Sedona that could get the Western Gateway Project rolling sooner than later with some significant cost savings.

    That beginner trail near the Cultural Center could be built this coming weekend instead of next year sometime.

  47. #47
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    Duplicate post

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Switchblade2 View Post
    Good article, too bad the USFS moves so slow on these kinds of projects. The trail building conditions have been excellent this winter. Volunteers have been working every week at the Sedona Bike Skills Park (https://www.facebook.com/FriendsOfSedonaBikeSkillsPark/ ) without supervision from the land manager.

    There is obviously plenty of talented trail builders in Sedona that could get the Western Gateway Project rolling sooner than later with some significant cost savings.

    That beginner trail near the Cultural Center could be built this coming weekend instead of next year sometime.
    It takes time for NEPA. The city doesn't have to comply with federal regulations. That's just how it is. And really trail building conditions were not ideal since until recently it hadn't rained in 6 months. You already know that but nice of you to want to save the FS some money. In fact, you probably already have.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Switchblade2 View Post
    Duplicate post
    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    It takes time for NEPA. The city doesn't have to comply with federal regulations. That's just how it is. And really trail building conditions were not ideal since until recently it hadn't rained in 6 months. You already know that but nice of you to want to save the FS some money. In fact, you probably already have.
    Rock explain the NEPA part to us. A map of all the trails has been created. Plumber Phil has gone out and flagged all the trails and in the about post they are asking for $350,000 to make the project happen.

    What is left to do? Can you explain the PROCESS from this point forward. Seems like itís a done deal. Is painfully waiting part of the process or is there some kind of work going on?

    We both know that in Sedona trails can be built all year long. The Thunder Mt., Crusty and Tea Cup reroutes were built without any rain? Also if there is a huge rainy period a trail like Oak was built and is holding up very nicely. I know Flagstaff is a whole different bowel of spaghetti, but this is Sedona.

    And yes I think given the opportunity, I and the Sedona Bike Park volunteers could save tons of money. Hopefully someday some Administration will get rid of the Antiquities Act. It has outlived its original intent. What a Country!

  50. #50
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    For those of you who attended the Sedona Mountain Bike Festival this last weekend you may of visited the USFS booth attended by Forest and Kyle. At the Festival besides giving recommendations on which trails to ride and doing a USFS specific guided ride they were showcasing the new proposed Western Gateway Project Scoping Map.

    The map provided a snapshot of all the proposed trails to be constructed over the next two years if the $600,000 of funding is obtained. When I asked Kyle which new trail he thought might be constructed first he gave me his best idea. Then when I asked Forest he wasn't sure which trail they would start with.

    Hopefully with monies received from the successful Festival and a successful Scoping process the construction can be started this Spring.
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  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bandy Mclovin View Post
    I see firefighters raising money with their boots on the street corners all the time. I wonder if FS could take a similar approach with their donations? In our city, they are really cracking down on panhandling, which ironically I saw the very first beggar that I've ever seen in Sedona, on this very trip. Perhaps he would do well with a firefighter's boot?...for some reason that's not really the same, I guess. The cops don't really bother them. Maybe there is something in it for both the FS and the bums in your area, Switchy?
    It's not that hard and no volunteers are required to spend their precious time holding a boot. 2 clicks of the mouse and your done.
    Sedona Red Rock Trail Fund | Preserve the Red Rock Trails

    Or, if you want to make sure your donation goes specifically to the Western Gateway Project. https://www.vvcc.us/page-18157

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    Or, if you want to make sure your donation goes specifically to the Western Gateway Project. https://www.vvcc.us/page-18157
    Thanks for the reminder!

    -db-

  53. #53
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    Maybe it's just me but making fun of the homeless is pathetic. Especially from folks attending a festival and riding around on $8000 carbon bikes.

  54. #54
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    You and John will get along just fine.... Once you clear his obstruction.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bandy Mclovin View Post
    I suspect there is some reason for concern if your bowels are being obstructed by spaghetti. Perhaps, since it is Sedona, someone can perform a crystal healing to help remove it? If not, I bet one of those fancy spas can give you an enema, for a small charge of course. If it were me, I'd just eat a bunch of prunes.
    MTB_123? Long time no hear Bryan. Still riding a Turner?

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