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  1. #1
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    Tubeless sealant drying out in Arizona - proposed solution.

    I just got my tubeless Stan conversion in a LBS and I love every minute of it. However I was told and from what I read here, the sealant dries out and needs to be replaced every 1-2 months in the summer. (I store my bike in the garage and it's a sauna) Moreover the coagulated latex needs to be removed or at least I would want to remove the junk from my wheel.... This created a huge inconvenience and got me thinking...

    What is in the Stan's sealant anyway?
    Propylene glycol - type of alcohol, solvent, antifreeze, humectant
    Latex - rubber
    Water -H20 - 30-40% of the solution ???

    The the boiling temp for propylene glycol is 370 F so major component most susceptible to evaporation must be the water. Thus if you replace the water component periodically you should be able to prolong the time before the sealant dries out and needs to be replaced.

    I don't what the evaporation rate would be, but my garage gets up to 120 degrees. My LBS recommended monthly replacements. I believe that the volume of the sealant replaced is about 2 to 3 oz. So assuming that water is about third of that, then 1 oz of water is lost every month.

    What I am thinking about doing, is adding 1/2 ounce of water every 2 weeks to my tire. The easiest way would be partially deflate the tire. Squirt the water in to my compressor tubing and re-inflate the tire. I know I would eventually would need to add Stan's sealant, but I would like to prolong that period to more like 3 months in the summer and 6 in the winter.

    Am I missing something here? I would love to hear some comments. I am not a chemist, I had basic chemistry and biochem in college but I am far from being Walter White.

  2. #2
    Black and Sticky
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    I have always presumed that Stans is a natural rubber latex emulsion although I suppose it's possible it's synthetic. Either way I'm guessing about 60-65% solids by weight. Do a google search on Firestone Hartex, for example. I don't think you can just add water after the rubber has coagulated in the tire. At that point, it won't re-emulsify without mechanical grinding and addition of some type of emulsifying agent. I think there is a small residue of ammonia left in the latex from when it's processed at the source. I have been told the ammonia is in there as a stabilizer, but others have told me it's a biocide since the latex is an organic material and would otherwise attract critters. No Walter White here either. But I buy about half a million pounds of latex every year in my job. (No not a condom maker.) FWIW, it's not that much trouble to just add Stans by using one of their syringes and removable valve cores. I'm now running tubeless using Stans on three mtb's and I just converted my road bike to tubeless. I clean out my tires about once a year and really, most people don't even do that because they wear out tires before it's necessary.

    Bob
    "Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission." - Neil Kendall

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by metalaficionado View Post
    I just got my tubeless Stan conversion in a LBS and I love every minute of it. However I was told and from what I read here, the sealant dries out and needs to be replaced every 1-2 months in the summer. (I store my bike in the garage and it's a sauna) Moreover the coagulated latex needs to be removed or at least I would want to remove the junk from my wheel.... This created a huge inconvenience and got me thinking...

    What is in the Stan's sealant anyway?
    Propylene glycol - type of alcohol, solvent, antifreeze, humectant
    Latex - rubber
    Water -H20 - 30-40% of the solution ???

    The the boiling temp for propylene glycol is 370 F so major component most susceptible to evaporation must be the water. Thus if you replace the water component periodically you should be able to prolong the time before the sealant dries out and needs to be replaced.

    I don't what the evaporation rate would be, but my garage gets up to 120 degrees. My LBS recommended monthly replacements. I believe that the volume of the sealant replaced is about 2 to 3 oz. So assuming that water is about third of that, then 1 oz of water is lost every month.

    What I am thinking about doing, is adding 1/2 ounce of water every 2 weeks to my tire. The easiest way would be partially deflate the tire. Squirt the water in to my compressor tubing and re-inflate the tire. I know I would eventually would need to add Stan's sealant, but I would like to prolong that period to more like 3 months in the summer and 6 in the winter.

    Am I missing something here? I would love to hear some comments. I am not a chemist, I had basic chemistry and biochem in college but I am far from being Walter White.
    You are definitely missing something. I think the weight is 80% liquid. Once the sealant turns to a solid you can't convert it to a liquid without using a solvent like Goof-Off. Buy some 100% latex caulk in a tube and dilute it with water to the same consistency of the original Stan's, put 2.8 oz. in your dried out tire and ride on.

    Wait until the tire starts to loose air before adding additional fluid.

  4. #4
    SamuraiBunnyGuy
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    actually the whole concept behind a sauna is to maintain an enclosed area near 100% humidity..

    bring the bike inside to the laundry room or something,, it's not like it's all covered in mud. and it's an added level of assurance for you that it will still be there in the morning.

  5. #5
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    Why don't you just add more stans? It seems to me that the huge inconvenience is coming up with a complex solution when the easiest is to just add more stans....it's really not hard.

    When my tire goes dry...it goes real dry. The residue in the tire just coats the inside...but after adding stans 2-3 times...I'm ready for a new tire anyways.

    K.I.S.S.

  6. #6
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    OP- I think you're over thinking things. Just keep adding Stans via your valve. If you're concerned about the cost of replacement, switch to a homebrew sealant. I think it cost me $20 to make 3/4 gallon.
    I think I'm not as good as I thought.

  7. #7
    Meatbomb
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    I don't have the removable cores so i just pop the bead and pour some in ... I'll install new cores when I change tires next time.

  8. #8
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    I'm not sure the removable cores are all that much of an advantage. I just added some stans fluid to my tires through the valve stem as a precaution. On the front it went well, but on the rear when I let the air out the bead on the tire popped loose -- almost like negative pressure sucked the tire off the bead. It all went back together fine, but I didn't expect that to happen.

    ben

  9. #9
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    The point is to add the water periodically BEFORE the sealant dries out.

    I did some research and found that propylene glycol is cheaply available in a cattle feed stores (don't ask).

    I could mix both 50-50 and squirt via my compressor every 1-2 weeks and always have fresh sealant inside.

    I know I would still have to add Stan's at some point. The cost is not an issue.

    And Yes I am way overthinking this

  10. #10
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    Oh, and here is the MSDS on Stan's sealant.

    notubes.com/literature/NoTubes_msds_9_17_2010

    sorry not allowed to post links yet

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by metalaficionado View Post
    The point is to add the water periodically BEFORE the sealant dries out.

    I did some research and found that propylene glycol is cheaply available in a cattle feed stores (don't ask).

    I could mix both 50-50 and squirt via my compressor every 1-2 weeks and always have fresh sealant inside.

    I know I would still have to add Stan's at some point. The cost is not an issue.

    And Yes I am way overthinking this
    Met:

    I could be wrong again, but I think propylene glycol is food grade anti freeze.

  12. #12
    No Clue Crew
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maadjurguer View Post
    Why don't you just add more stans? It seems to me that the huge inconvenience is coming up with a complex solution when we've already been working on one for months or years
    The whole thread starts here.

    It really starts to get juicy here when an actual chemist chimes in here.

    Quote Originally Posted by metalaficionado View Post
    I did some research and found that propylene glycol is cheaply available in a cattle feed stores (don't ask).
    Fog Juice is what we are using.

  13. #13
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    I am currently using Stans out of a conveinence issue, but when I made my homebrew, that stuff never dried out-ever. I hang my bikes in the garage too so I know what you mean by drying out. I have just been adding Stans until the bottle is empty and I make more homebrew.

  14. #14
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    I thought the only reason why anyone would use antifreeze in their home brew was because they rode their bike in cold temps. Does it get cold in Phoenix this time of year? If antifreeze acts as a solvent to keep the brew in a viscous state how do the holes get plugged?

  15. #15
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    50/50 Slime/Stan's

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Call_me_Tom View Post
    50/50 Slime/Stan's
    Sounds expensive, does it work? What is Slime made out of that putting it in Stan's makes it work better than Stan's? Have you told Slime that Slime Pro and Slime works better than Slime Pro?

    TD

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    Sounds expensive, does it work? What is Slime made out of that putting it in Stan's makes it work better than Stan's? Have you told Slime that Slime Pro and Slime works better than Slime Pro?

    TD
    It works, the Slime helps from keeping the Stan's from drying out. Google it & you'll find plenty of info in regards to this mix. Oh, just buy the automotive Slime from any Walmart or automotive store, it's cheaper then the LBS Slime & does the same thing.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Call_me_Tom View Post
    It works, the Slime helps from keeping the Stan's from drying out. Google it & you'll find plenty of info in regards to this mix. Oh, just buy the automotive Slime from any Walmart or automotive store, it's cheaper then the LBS Slime & does the same thing.
    Do you have any idea why the Walmart slime does the same thing as the LBS slime? Did you do some kind of test? I want to get this right since I only use water currently.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    Do you have any idea why the Walmart slime does the same thing as the LBS slime? Did you do some kind of test? I want to get this right since I only use water currently.
    I just did online research on MTBR & other sites. From what I've read the automotive Slime is the same as the LBS Slime but cheaper; marketing I believe. The only tests I've done is use the mix, I ride in some pretty thorny areas, Palm Springs, Phoenix & El Paso & it hasn't let me down. I'm also not having to refill my tires every few weeks, the Slime is good for 2 years, mixed with Stan's it should be good for your area for 8-12 months.

  20. #20
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    Actually, let me back peddle a little bit, I haven't ridden the Phoenix are since June & I know it gets hotter there around this time so for the sake of being safe I'll say that mix should be good in your area for at least 4 months. Come the cooler months you'll be able to go longer.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    Do you have any idea why the Walmart slime does the same thing as the LBS slime? Did you do some kind of test? I want to get this right since I only use water currently.
    Slime is Slime. The bike & automotive Slime are very similar if not identical. Your local Autozone or Checker/Schucks/Kragen/O'Reilly, which is where I got mine since you would have to pay me to go into a Walmart, will also carry an ATV Slime which supposedly has larger chunks of rubber in it. I've not compared the two recipes but I used the ATV Slime when I used it. Anywhere is likely gonna be cheaper than your LBS but if I bought it I'd certainly be throwing a little bone my LBS's way for it. Or REI since I'll get a little back from my dividends

  22. #22
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    I see that most of Slime is propylene glycol, anyone know what else is in it?

    It's true though, I don't recall the slime ever drying out - I can see it's usefullness in keeping Stan sealant wet.

    I am not sure if would help or impede the hole plugging ability.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by big0mike View Post
    The whole thread starts here.

    It really starts to get juicy here when an actual chemist chimes in here.


    Fog Juice is what we are using.
    Read this thread on DIY tubeless. I'm in GA with similar heat and have been tubeless for 6-8 months on the same batch of sealant. Every month I'll pull the wheels and shake the tire around to make sure that there's still liquid and it's been good every time.

  24. #24
    SamuraiBunnyGuy
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    lol@ similar heat in GA...

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by longhairmike View Post
    lol@ similar heat in GA...
    I guess maybe I should have said heat index. You guys have the dry heat, we have a few degrees cooler but with all the humidity you'll ever need to get swampass standing still on a street corner.

    FWIW I was pegging 115F air temps over pavement riding home, generally Atlanta heat was averaging over 100 for most of July.

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