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  1. #1
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    Tour of the White Mountains

    I have a couple of questions:

    First is, is anyone interested in this ride? If so, it appears as though the organizers are behind on activating registration for it.

    Second, has anyone done this ride? What was their experience? Is it well organized? I checked out results from last year and it appears very well attended. Thanks

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by On the Rocks View Post
    I have a couple of questions:

    First is, is anyone interested in this ride? If so, it appears as though the organizers are behind on activating registration for it.

    Second, has anyone done this ride? What was their experience? Is it well organized? I checked out results from last year and it appears very well attended. Thanks
    It's an Epic Rides event...same organizer as the just-completed Whiskey Off-Road 25/50 in Prescott. Great event, and great course...better than the Whiskey course, IMO.

    My wife and I have done it multiple times, and I highly recommend it. Do the 35, for your first one.
    Ride more; post less...

  3. #3
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    I think they're going to get Grand Junction squared away before they start dialing in TOWM.

  4. #4
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    I think I am going to give this one good look. I loved my Whiskey Experience. Probably do the 35 if I sign up.
    Joe
    '12 Santa Cruz Highball 29", '13 Santa Cruz Solo 27.5",Vassago Verhauen SS 29" XC, AM, blah blah blah.. I just ride.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoePAz View Post
    I think I am going to give this one good look. I loved my Whiskey Experience. Probably do the 35 if I sign up.
    Not nearly as much killer climbing as the Whiskey, but a demanding course. Get used to molar-rattling embedded rocks...
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  6. #6
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    I did the 35 miler last year. Very well organized, although the atmosphere is not as conducive to socializing as Prescott is. First of all the set up is in the middle of field as opposed the town square in Prescott. The 35 mile course was probably easier than Prescott 25.

  7. #7
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    Whatever you do.....NEVER talk about the weather.
    b

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by metalaficionado View Post
    I did the 35 miler last year. Very well organized, although the atmosphere is not as conducive to socializing as Prescott is. First of all the set up is in the middle of field as opposed the town square in Prescott. The 35 mile course was probably easier than Prescott 25.
    Yeah,
    I probably won't bring the family to that one. Longer driver and less to do when we get there. My wife and daughter were really busy during the Whiskey race with a lot to do. Not so if they are stuck in open field.
    Joe
    '12 Santa Cruz Highball 29", '13 Santa Cruz Solo 27.5",Vassago Verhauen SS 29" XC, AM, blah blah blah.. I just ride.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by brianc View Post
    Whatever you do.....NEVER talk about the weather.
    Damn straight!!!!!!!

    I'll likely do it again this year, but it's night and day from the Whiskey. I like the WoR course 1000% more. Sure, less climbing. But some of those trails are brutal with the embedded rocks. I've never camped, but I hear the camping can be kind of brutal as well since there are very few, flat spots to camp. Pinetop/Show Low is no Prescott.

    But all and all, it's a fun race.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  10. #10
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    Ok, I won't ask about the weather. But I have to ask here, why is it an issue? I was going to check average temps, but can expect them to be truly Fall-like, but it is a time of year I avoid because work generally takes that time up. Yes, I am very familiar with the area--the family has a cabin in Greer. And if you ride throughout the Phoenix area embedded rocks are the norm.

    As for what to do with your family, there might not be camping near the start line, but there is plenty around Pine Top-Lakeside and out at Greer, which is about a 30-40 minute car trip away. BUT, then, that means you need to bring two cars so that they can come out and meet you after the race. Ah, ok. So there are logistical matters. Sounds like I need to do the Whiskey next year.

    How's the party after the Tour of the White Mountains? Hosted by Fat Tire? Where's it held? I like their beer. I mean, I like beer.

  11. #11
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    Weather is an issue because there are afternoon thunderstorms that crop up that time of year in the White Mountains. The soil there turns to peanut butter when wet = your bike becomes a 50 lb. mess with tires that wont roll. Also, you have NO warning that it will start raining soon...the clouds move in quickly.

    All in all, it's a good incentive to pedal faster.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhiskersOfDeath View Post
    Weather is an issue because there are afternoon thunderstorms that crop up that time of year in the White Mountains. The soil there turns to peanut butter when wet = your bike becomes a 50 lb. mess with tires that wont roll. Also, you have NO warning that it will start raining soon...the clouds move in quickly.

    All in all, it's a good incentive to pedal faster.
    bunny hop when thunder strikes, avoid the ground current

  13. #13
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    I've done the 35 mile course three times and it's a lot of fun! The course is great and if you've never ridden up there, it's a great trail system. As others have said, the social aspect is a little muted because it's in the middle of a field and the road in is usually a damn nightmare. I REALLY REALLY REALLY HOPE they get a grader in there this year and fix that damn entrance road. I'm doing the 35 miler this year again and I can't wait. Some of the downhill segments (Ice Caves is one) have some chunkiness but they've cleaned it up and re-routed it quite a bit over the years so it's not as bad. The ONLY part of the course I absolutely hate with a passion is the Blue Ridge segment. As Walt said above, it's just big, chunky embedded volcanic rocks that just demoralize you during the Blue Ridge climb. I shudder just to think about that sufferfest (for me anyway). My favorite part is just watching people hit these rocks and curse up a storm when they get stuck (I'm looking at you CoyoteKis! ).

    Go for it man! It always has a really good turnout!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by ECEGatorTuro View Post
    The ONLY part of the course I absolutely hate with a passion is the Blue Ridge segment. As Walt said above, it's just big, chunky embedded volcanic rocks that just demoralize you during the Blue Ridge climb. I shudder just to think about that sufferfest (for me anyway).
    I Dislocated my finger on that trail 3 years ago by going over the bars....then broke my chain 1/2 mile later. Yeah...putting a quick link on was fun at that point. I hate Blue Ridge.

  15. #15
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    Oh The Rocks- I think to make this race epic, you should open up your cabin in Greer to us pre and post race. We can all carpool to the event, then beer and BBQ at your place- or we could all get a block of rooms at the nearest hotel....
    Vassago Cycles, Shadetree Bikes, Flat Tire Bikes, Galfer Brakes USA

  16. #16
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    10x more fun than the Whiskey. I turn in a faster time on the TOWM as well with the lack of brutal climbing. I'll never ride this course on a hard-tail. You want FS for sure with the amount of rocks.

  17. #17
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    Tour of the White Mountains

    Quote Originally Posted by ECEGatorTuro View Post
    I've done the 35 mile course three times and it's a lot of fun! The course is great and if you've never ridden up there, it's a great trail system. As others have said, the social aspect is a little muted because it's in the middle of a field and the road in is usually a damn nightmare. I REALLY REALLY REALLY HOPE they get a grader in there this year and fix that damn entrance road. I'm doing the 35 miler this year again and I can't wait. Some of the downhill segments (Ice Caves is one) have some chunkiness but they've cleaned it up and re-routed it quite a bit over the years so it's not as bad. The ONLY part of the course I absolutely hate with a passion is the Blue Ridge segment. As Walt said above, it's just big, chunky embedded volcanic rocks that just demoralize you during the Blue Ridge climb. I shudder just to think about that sufferfest (for me anyway). My favorite part is just watching people hit these rocks and curse up a storm when they get stuck (I'm looking at you CoyoteKis! ).

    Go for it man! It always has a really good turnout!
    Lol!! Dang!! Put me on blast why don't you!! I'm a mountain biker- I can cuss and spit while riding- it's allowed ;-) ;-)
    "People do not lack strength; they lack will" (Victor Hugo)

  18. #18
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    I plan on doing this after skipping this race since 2008! Where does the time go! It is more mellow than the weekend I just had in Prescott, but still fun to camp and relax after the race.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoyoteKis View Post
    Lol!! Dang!! Put me on blast why don't you!! I'm a mountain biker- I can cuss and spit while riding- it's allowed ;-) ;-)
    me thinks... altitude and attitude go hand in hand here

  20. #20
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    Tour of the White Mountains

    Less about hand in hand, more about crotch and top tube, when stopped dead by a huge rock.

    That and being raised by 4 older brothers. :-)
    "People do not lack strength; they lack will" (Victor Hugo)

  21. #21
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    So, this event is on the horizon. Who is in?

  22. #22
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    It's a different course and starting point this year. Go to the Epic Rides website and read the updates. The whole course and starting point has changed along with trails and distances.

  23. #23
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    I am out this year. Maybe next year.
    Joe
    '12 Santa Cruz Highball 29", '13 Santa Cruz Solo 27.5",Vassago Verhauen SS 29" XC, AM, blah blah blah.. I just ride.

  24. #24
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    All the talk about he WOR vs TOWM, but has any body noticed the TOWM has changed the course to a different location this year, and shortened it? Anybody familiar with this years course, and can you tell how it compares with last years course?

  25. #25
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    In. Doing the 30 this year. Course looks easier then previous years. They moved the start from that crappy old lot which in turn changed the course. Epic races are always a blast!

  26. #26
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    Tour of the White Mountains

    In for 50. SS category. Easier is better.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  27. #27
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    Casual Observer

    In for 50. SS category. Easier is better.

    What kind of gearing (SS) would run up there for the TOWM?

  28. #28
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    Nice!! I am thinking of the 50 as well, and need to make the call here in the next few days.

  29. #29
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    Tour of the White Mountains

    Quote Originally Posted by dfp23 View Post
    What kind of gearing (SS) would run up there for the TOWM?
    Likely 32x20. I know the course changed, and previous course was not a lot of climbing. But I'm likely not getting many rides in between now and then. I'd venture to say if you're in shape, 32x18 would be ok.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  30. #30
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    Cool- thx for the suggestion..I'll give it a try(32/18).

  31. #31
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    I'm in for the 30. My first MTB race in 20+ years. I assume the trails are a lot like Flagstaff.

  32. #32
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    My friend and I are doing this. As it's our first event we're going to be doing the 30 mile fun ride. As much as we both love single track we were a little worried about staying with the pack for 30 miles. Will be interesting to see how we do at high elevation on the fun ride.
    Looking forward to it and meeting some arizona mtbrs.
    never know what youre going to find on an exploration what the sky is like what the trail is like thats why were exploring

  33. #33
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    I have no intention of staying with any pack, but want to ride single track.

    Posts earlier in this thread refer to this as a race, but Epic's website doesn't use the word race. ???

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkP View Post
    I have no intention of staying with any pack, but want to ride single track.

    Posts earlier in this thread refer to this as a race, but Epic's website doesn't use the word race. ???
    It most certaintly is a race, with prizes and all.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  35. #35
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    Perfect, I'll take 50+ beginner for a hundred!

  36. #36
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    Upon further review.......I am out.

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    I'll miss Panorama, Blue Ridge, and Sawmill from last year but not the Maverick or the long FS road grind. Land of the Pioneers, more of Four Springs, and Los Burros will be welcome additions this year. It seems to me that the 30/50 courses are substantially more single-track this year than last at the expense of riding Chipmunk both ways.

  38. #38
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    I noticed the 30 mile single track map said the route was 35 miles. I sent Epic an email and they confirmed that the route changed to avoid conflicts with the fast 50 riders and now the 30 is closer to 35.

  39. #39
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    Buddy and I pre-rode the new course fifty. It's not very exciting.
    40 miles in to it there is climb from hell, it makes the climb out skull valley in the Whiskey race seem easy. Guaranteed Conga Line HAB.
    After Epic Ride's poorly planned Grand Junction event, I think I am gonna pass on this one.

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    I understand their intent to prevent racers from riding against the flow of other racers - but come on, 1 weeks out and they add 5 miles and 1000' of climbing.
    My training rides were 25 miles of singletrack with 3000' of climbing which should have be well prepared for the 30 miles and 1800' the race started out as. I've got 1 week to up my training.

  41. #41
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    EXACTLY in your shoes - heading out the door for an extra ride!

    Quote Originally Posted by jjkuhn818 View Post
    I understand their intent to prevent racers from riding against the flow of other racers - but come on, 1 weeks out and they add 5 miles and 1000' of climbing.
    My training rides were 25 miles of singletrack with 3000' of climbing which should have be well prepared for the 30 miles and 1800' the race started out as. I've got 1 week to up my training.

  42. #42
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    This one of the risks of a first year event. Or event first year on a new course. Bugs to be worked out. It is one reason I opted out. I figure let the event run for a year and then maybe next year depending on feedback.
    Joe
    '12 Santa Cruz Highball 29", '13 Santa Cruz Solo 27.5",Vassago Verhauen SS 29" XC, AM, blah blah blah.. I just ride.

  43. #43
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    Everybody is opting out! C'mon Bart. You can do this with your eyes closed!

    I am confused... Did they again change the course beyond this:

    Mountain Bike Ride Profile | Tour Of The White Mountains near Navajo, AZ, USA | Times and Records | Strava
    -boom

  44. #44
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    I opted out not because of the terrain nor that its a new course....I opted out because of the the ridiculous fees and mandatory "donation". I would like to think that money derived from donations are probably going to good things to help out mountain biking in general. Its still a "choice" to donate. E.R. is executing a business model to maximize their profits by getting as many racers on the course as possible (WOR).

    I have nothing against E.P. They are first and foremost a business trying to make money and I understand that. They put on a well organized and traditionally fun event. Perhaps they could run more races per year with lower fees and more sensible race caps. Wishful thinking I know....just my 2 cents

  45. #45
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    the MBAA fills that gap pretty well

  46. #46
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    Dude I am excited they added the extra 5 miles on. Jokes on them. I only paid for 30 miles and now I am getting an extra 5 miles.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by boomvader View Post
    Everybody is opting out! C'mon Bart. You can do this with your eyes closed!

    I am confused... Did they again change the course beyond this:

    Mountain Bike Ride Profile | Tour Of The White Mountains near Navajo, AZ, USA | Times and Records | Strava
    I would go if I had at least one person to share the gas and hotel money. This race only makes sense for me with minimal time and cost. I work until 530 on Friday - so I couldn't get to Show Low until 10 or 11pm, race the 50 miles in morning (4-5 hours) and split right after to be back by 6pm in Phoenix. If anyone is down for that let it be known. I would even drive, I have 4 cab Nissan Frontier.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by metalaficionado View Post
    I would go if I had at least one person to share the gas and hotel money. This race only makes sense for me with minimal time and cost. I work until 530 on Friday - so I couldn't get to Show Low until 10 or 11pm, race the 50 miles in morning (4-5 hours) and split right after to be back by 6pm in Phoenix. If anyone is down for that let it be known. I would even drive, I have 4 cab Nissan Frontier.
    Wow, sounds fun.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Observer View Post
    Wow, sounds fun.
    working man fun

  50. #50
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    The link below is for the 50, the change I posted about is for the 30 going to 35.

    Quote Originally Posted by boomvader View Post
    Everybody is opting out! C'mon Bart. You can do this with your eyes closed!

    I am confused... Did they again change the course beyond this:

    Mountain Bike Ride Profile | Tour Of The White Mountains near Navajo, AZ, USA | Times and Records | Strava

  51. #51
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    Just got the pre ride email from Epic.

    Signed up for a 30 mile single track with 1,800' of elevation gain and a 2 hour cut off to 10 miles. Now it is 35 miles with 2,800' of elevation gain with a 4 hour cut of to 23 miles and all of the climbing BEFORE the 23 mile mark!

    Can anyone tell me how smooth or chunky these trails are?
    Last edited by MarkP; 10-05-2013 at 07:01 PM.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkP View Post
    Just got the pre ride email from Epic, kind of pissed.

    Signed up for a 30 mile single track with 1,800' of elevation gain and a 2 hour cut off to 10 miles. Now it is 35 miles with 2,800' of elevation gain with a 4 hour cut of to 23 miles and all of the climbing BEFORE the 23 mile mark!

    Can anyone tell me how smooth or chunky these trails are?
    4 hours to do 23 miles ??!! You can walk a bike at that pace.
    You will be fine, easy and wide trails for most part. The climbs are gradual, nothing super steep, nothing technical. This is just a little ride thru the forest, you can take the fam and find a place to picnic.

  53. #53
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    Thanks. Yesterday I did the 23 mile Cave Creek race loop in 3:20. It is very rocky and slow in sections with a long climb.

    Keep in mind, I could bring my grand kids on the picnic and this is my first race in over 20 years!

    Quote Originally Posted by metalaficionado View Post
    4 hours to do 23 miles ??!! You can walk a bike at that pace.
    You will be fine, easy and wide trails for most part. The climbs are gradual, nothing super steep, nothing technical. This is just a little ride thru to the forest, you can take the fam and find a place to picnic.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkP View Post
    Thanks. Yesterday I did the 23 mile Cave Creek race loop in 3:20. It is very rocky and slow in sections with a long climb.

    Keep in mind, I could bring my grand kids on the picnic and this is my first race in over 20 years!
    Cave creek is a much tougher terrain and has steeper climbs.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by metalaficionado View Post
    Cave creek is a much tougher terrain and has steeper climbs.
    Seriously, Bart? I have heard ToWM is much rockier than CCBF. However, I know you have recently ridden both CCBF and the new ToWM 50 course. I am inclined to take your word on this! :-)

    Richie
    -boom

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by boomvader View Post
    Seriously, Bart? I have heard ToWM is much rockier than CCBF. However, I know you have recently ridden both CCBF and the new ToWM 50 course. I am inclined to take your word on this! :-)

    Richie
    I haven't ridden the new course, but while rocky, the old course was nothing compared to the stuff we encounter here in Phoenix.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Observer View Post
    I haven't ridden the new course, but while rocky, the old course was nothing compared to the stuff we encounter here in Phoenix.
    Thanks, Jeff!
    -boom

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by boomvader View Post
    Thanks, Jeff!
    It will be a good time. See you up there.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by metalaficionado View Post
    Cave creek is a much tougher terrain and has steeper climbs.
    Los Burros has its challenges, and remember it's at 7000-8000 feet, so plan on some huffing and puffing...

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by boomvader View Post
    Seriously, Bart? I have heard ToWM is much rockier than CCBF. However, I know you have recently ridden both CCBF and the new ToWM 50 course. I am inclined to take your word on this! :-)

    Richie
    Yes there are rocky sections but nothing like riding through a riverbed :O

  61. #61
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    In for 30-ish miler.

    So if I listen to Walt, then full-sus might be more fun on this course for a recreational racer than hard tail?

    I'm driving up Friday morning and tent-camping at the race site. We have room for one more, so any AZ locals with reasonable rep are welcome to ride up.

  62. #62
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    I'm curious about the 35 mi route. From the start, are we turning right at the Country Mud Trail and continuing on Los Burros, then on the way back stay to the right and loop around to the finish?

    Rookie question, I know, but I'm still curious.

    Thanks

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by On the Rocks View Post
    I'm curious about the 35 mi route. From the start, are we turning right at the Country Mud Trail and continuing on Los Burros, then on the way back stay to the right and loop around to the finish?

    Rookie question, I know, but I'm still curious.

    Thanks
    Unfortunately, I think we're all rookies this year, as it's a brand new course.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  64. #64
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    I mean, I don't race much. I'm curious if the course means to loop around the hill first, or on the way back, or heck, maybe both ways (though I wouldn't think the latter). Also, I wonder how they will make sure each rider loops the hill, or just blows it off each way.

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by On the Rocks View Post
    I mean, I don't race much. I'm curious if the course means to loop around the hill first, or on the way back, or heck, maybe both ways (though I wouldn't think the latter). Also, I wonder how they will make sure each rider loops the hill, or just blows it off each way.
    I haven't look at the course map, but 1) the course is usually pretty well marked with folks point you in the right direction at troubled areas, and 2) they will have spotters at checkpoints writing down rider numbers.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  66. #66
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    You are right....you hang a right on the chipmunk connector....then, on the way back, you will complete the rest of country club and loop back around to come in to the finish. The bulk of the country club trail is at the end.

  67. #67
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    Show Low temp overnight Friday forecast 31F, and high reaching 60F (sunny and dry) ... hmmmm this will take a little thinking.

  68. #68
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    According to NOAA the Pine Top forecast lows are now 29 on Friday and 33 Saturday! Brrrrrrrrrr

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott In MD View Post
    Show Low temp overnight Friday forecast 31F, and high reaching 60F (sunny and dry) ... hmmmm this will take a little thinking.

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkP View Post
    According to NOAA the Pine Top forecast lows are now 29 on Friday and 33 Saturday! Brrrrrrrrrr
    But with the Govt Shutdown, how accurate is that?

    (Please stop talking about the weather. )
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  70. #70
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    Tour of the White Mountains

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott In MD View Post

    I'm driving up Friday morning and tent-camping at the race site. We have room for one more, so any AZ locals with reasonable rep are welcome to ride up.
    See you out there....
    Last edited by Scott In MD; 10-04-2013 at 12:05 PM.

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Observer View Post
    It will be a good time. See you up there.
    Fun time up in Pinetop yesterday! Cold as hell at the start, but legs eventually warmed up to the task! How about that climb about 36 miles in? Damn! Where did that come from?? :-)
    -boom

  72. #72
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    It was fun event with nice trails and friendly riders.

    The 30, or 35 was actually 36.8 miles. For those of us around a 4 hour pace, everyone walked the climb at 12 miles and then again at mile 31 on Country Club.

    It was good to be back in a race after a 20 year break. Lots to work on for next year!

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    Hats off to ride volunteers and organization. Dog-tilt of the head to my awesome LBS for the last two pieces of advice I left with Thursday before the ride: your rear tire is good and your bike is fine. These last two comments come after wondering about knobs missing from my rear tire and a tiny crack in my frame. Kudos to them. I made it to mile 33 of the 35 mi course. Rear tire blew and crack went from "is that really a crack" to half-moon evil smile in my top tube. Best damn bike ride I've ever been on. And I got the most out my bike.

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by On the Rocks View Post
    Hats off to ride volunteers and organization. Dog-tilt of the head to my awesome LBS for the last two pieces of advice I left with Thursday before the ride: your rear tire is good and your bike is fine. These last two comments come after wondering about knobs missing from my rear tire and a tiny crack in my frame. Kudos to them. I made it to mile 33 of the 35 mi course. Rear tire blew and crack went from "is that really a crack" to half-moon evil smile in my top tube. Best damn bike ride I've ever been on. And I got the most out my bike.
    Funny to have it let go on Iron Horse after making it through Chipmunk.

  75. #75
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    The venue is SO much better now.

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhiskersOfDeath View Post
    The venue is SO much better now.
    Agreed! I hadn't done it since '08 and this venue was great. Family friendly, too!
    Cheers,
    M

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    I don't know when the crack made its full reveal. I DO know when the blow out occurred. I anticipate the crack became glorious during one of the last two significant descents of the 35 mi course. A couple of pucker moments. Very fun. I'd never ridden any of this course before.

  78. #78
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    Event photos have been posted here: https://www.zazoosh.com/events/839

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