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  1. #1
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    Survey on the viability of lift accessed mountain biking on Mt. Lemmon.

    Hey everyone,

    We'd like to know your thoughts on the idea of lift accessed mountain biking on Mt. Lemmon. Please take a minute to share your thoughts in this survey. It's 10 questions and takes less than 5 minutes to take. The payoff could be that one day your wish becomes a reality! Please feel free to share also on Facebook. We want to know if this is really what people want and we'd especially like to know whether our buddies North of us would come visit if we did have lift accessed mt. biking on Mt. Lemmon.

    Cheers!

    https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/H6PVBYW
    facebook.com/TucsonTORCA

  2. #2
    Rhino
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    Fix question #4. It requires an answer, so it needs a "none" option.

  3. #3
    No Clue Crew
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    Done. Fix question #4. Otherwise, hope you get it rolling. I'd certainly come down more often for lift access on Lemmon.

  4. #4
    Shore slayer
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    1M people in Tucson-Nogales area.
    4+M people in Phoenix metro.

    British Columbia mountain bike parks do very well with a fraction of those numbers. Biking is big in Arizona and only growing.

    You need a survey?

  5. #5
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    Blatant, thanks for the feedback. It is fixed with a "none" option. Chunkey Monkey, one word. Sunrise... 4 million people and that place is lucky to have 25 riders on any given weekend day. I get your point, but we only have a million people here and we want to know if some of your 4million or 25 people depending on how you look at it will make the trip down to Tucson. We hope you will. Cheers!
    facebook.com/TucsonTORCA

  6. #6
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    done

  7. #7
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    Survey on the viability of lift accessed mountain biking on Mt. Lemmon.

    Quote Originally Posted by TORCA View Post
    Blatant, thanks for the feedback. It is fixed with a "none" option. Chunkey Monkey, one word. Sunrise... 4 million people and that place is lucky to have 25 riders on any given weekend day. I get your point, but we only have a million people here and we want to know if some of your 4million or 25 people depending on how you look at it will make the trip down to Tucson. We hope you will. Cheers!
    With all due respect, Subrise's numbers are low because:
    1. Sunrise's staff as low customer skills
    2. Sunrise doesn't seem to care about maintaining their trails
    3. No there has been no advancement in new trail development. In fact when the trails get deadfall, erosion, etc. Sunrise would rather close the trail than take the time to clear it.
    4. Sunrise would rather have "scenic riders" on their lift all day long then have to touch one bike.


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  8. #8
    Shore slayer
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    ^ Bingo. It's all about value for your money. You won't make anything with a **** product.

    Whistler and Silverstar are very successful - they maintain existing trails, build new ones, and foster progression. Sun Peaks is just doing OK because they don't do the above nearly as well. Go visit a successful bike park. Ride the trails. Talk to the riders. Talk to the builders. Talk to the owners. Talk to the staff. You'll discover why people continue to go there year after year.

    Build it (right), and they will come. Enhance & maintain it, and they will come back.

  9. #9
    Huffy Rider
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    I stopped going to Sunrise because they treat bikers like we are an extreme nuisance.....and because they would rather close trails then fix them, or let US fix them. I started going to PJ and AF, yes it is further, but they treated me like a queen! They were very excited to see us, happy to load/unload, bikes, extremely excited to build and maintain their trails, and their customer service was that of a 5 star restaurant. At least that is how I was treated. I will be giving my vacation $$ to New Mexico unless Lemmon, Sunrise and/or Snowbowl can match or top that!

    Brenda

  10. #10
    Thread Killer
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    Sunrise could use some competition. It wouldn't take much to trip over the bar set by them for lift assist riding.
    Cholla cactus=nature's guard rail.

  11. #11
    No Clue Crew
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jibro View Post
    With all due respect, Subrise's numbers are low because: It's run by the Indians.. They don't give a sh|t about anything.
    FYP.

    Number four isn't fixed. Still required an answer.

  12. #12
    Elitest thrill junkie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jibro View Post
    With all due respect, Subrise's numbers are low because:
    1. Sunrise's staff as low customer skills
    2. Sunrise doesn't seem to care about maintaining their trails
    3. No there has been no advancement in new trail development. In fact when the trails get deadfall, erosion, etc. Sunrise would rather close the trail than take the time to clear it.
    4. Sunrise would rather have "scenic riders" on their lift all day long then have to touch one bike.


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    Yeah, sunrise is crappy AND it's like 4hrs from Phoenix. It's where bike parks were back in like 1998 (Northstar, Squaw, etc). Make a real, not half-a$$ed bike park that is as close as Tucson and you'd have people going there in droves. But remember, it has to be sick, lots of trails, lots of development, etc.

    Doesn't need like a mountain village with a day spa and high end restaurants obviously, but it needs to have great trails, maintenance and upkeep, lift speed while important is not as important as ease of loading and unloading and other factors can negate a longer lift ride, need to have some events, even if they are just "grass roots" type series for the local guys, needs a decent rental fleet to get people interested and hooked, and so on.
    Last edited by Jayem; 12-21-2013 at 11:57 PM.
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  13. #13
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    Survey on the viability of lift accessed mountain biking on Mt. Lemmon.

    Quote Originally Posted by big0mike View Post
    FYP.

    Number four isn't fixed. Still required an answer.
    You can type **** if you want to say ****, it's ok, MTBR wears big boy pants now

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  14. #14
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    #1 (no answer that fits) I have an AM bike with more than 6".

    #2 (no answer that fits) Yes, I've visited, and ridden those trails, but no, I didn't pay for the lift

    #4 (no answer that's complete) Is Colorado really "west coast"? OK, I visit a LOT of places with lift access, but I prefer to climb the climb myself, not park my ass on a lift.

    #6 (no answer that fits) I wouldn't pay for a lift ticket, but I'd climb Ski Run Rd and ride the trails.

    #8 (no answer that fits) I wouldn't buy a season pass

    #9 (no answer that fits) I would take advantage of the trails probably 3 times a month, but not pay for the lift.

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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Patrick View Post
    #1 (no answer that fits) I have an AM bike with more than 6".

    #2 (no answer that fits) Yes, I've visited, and ridden those trails, but no, I didn't pay for the lift

    #4 (no answer that's complete) Is Colorado really "west coast"? OK, I visit a LOT of places with lift access, but I prefer to climb the climb myself, not park my ass on a lift.

    #6 (no answer that fits) I wouldn't pay for a lift ticket, but I'd climb Ski Run Rd and ride the trails.

    #8 (no answer that fits) I wouldn't buy a season pass

    #9 (no answer that fits) I would take advantage of the trails probably 3 times a month, but not pay for the lift.

    (Did I just get kicked out of TORCA?)
    First, you are not a member of TORCA so it would be difficult to kick you out. If you would like to become a member though so you are eligible to be kicked out in the future go to our website torca.org and signup. Second we don't kick people out of TORCA for having a difference of views or riding style anyway. I'm about as XC as they get so if we were gonna start kicking people out I would have to be the first to go. Thank you for your honest opinions though.

  16. #16
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    I clicked I'd pay $10-20 and no more than $150 for a season pass. With only 4 trails, that's kind of what it sounds like it's worth. Now if there was a ton of development and trails, then maybe more. For example, we pay $25 at Alyeska and there's a tram, two high speed lifts and one slow quad, 2000+ vertical, fun jump/flow area, tight chute trails on the mid mountain, and a mix on the upper mountain. This too has a ways to go, but the owner is absolutely passionate about riding and getting people there, they hold multiple races and your lift-ticket covers the entry fee, and so on. Even though there could be more development, maintenance, etc, you get the feeling they want you there and there is enough to justify the cost. Again, Mt Lemon doesn't a tram and two high speed lifts, but only 4 trails would have to be 4 of the most mindblowing trails ever designed to qualify more than just a couple bucks, and even then they'd probably get beaten to hell fast because everyone is funneling down only 4 trails.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  17. #17
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    This would be awesome, People would go, I would go, I would pay and so would many others. As stated above have a good product and provide even decent service and people will pay. DO IT!!

  18. #18
    sandbagger
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    Sunrise is a horrible comparison, Im all for going to tucson as long as its not even in the same league as Sunrise. Sunrise only has one thing going for it....a lift

    Put a lift on south mountain while you are at it
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  19. #19
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    This would be great if it happened, but I'm not sure they would get enough participation to really have the resources to upkeep the trails. I was at the Canyons mid-week this year and the bike park was empty . . . at a mtb destination . . . next to SLC.

  20. #20
    Sun Devils
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    " you'd have people going there in droves." "But remember, it has to be sick, lots of trails, lots of development, etc.

    I don't want to burst any bubbles here, but were talking about 950' of vert and 200 acres of land. There's not going to be TONS of anything, but it doesn't mean it can't be quality. I just keep hearing lots of comparisons to 8,000+ acre Whistler with a MILE of vert! It's not going to be ANYTHING like Whistler, that's a totally unrealistic expectation.

  21. #21
    Sun Devils
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    And the Canyons has high speed lifts, 4000 acres of land, and 2600' vert.

  22. #22
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    950 vert and 200 acres is plenty if it's well planned and developed.

    Comparing Sunrise to an actual bike park is ridiculous.

    Sunrise is as janky as it gets.

    A way to attract new riders and larger numbers? Beginner trails, stuff for the never ever's and family's but also expert level stuff. If you want to grow you better start with introducing new people to the sport.

    Another thought is that you may want to compliment the bike stuff with some other activities. Make it a place where the whole family can go have fun even if some of the party don't want to ride bikes. Climbing wall, zip lines, ropes course are a few that come to mind. Make it an awesome recreational destination, not just a bike park.

    It seems like a no brainer to me. Build it and build it well and they will come.

  23. #23
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    Herbert "HI" Mcdonough(Raisingarizona reference),

    All of what you said here is noted and agreed. The owner said that they would like to put in zip lines as well.

    Gnar602, thanks for making an important point. It will never be Whistler up there. They don't have the land or the vert. But it could be a really cool place for Tucson's(Az's) dhers, noobies, and never evers to get stoked on riding. It is my hope that people understand this, as we'd hate to invest all of that work, only to dissappoint people. It will however, be the only lift accessed mtbing in such a close proxiity to, well, anywhere in Az. Thanks for all the comments and stoke everyone!
    facebook.com/TucsonTORCA

  24. #24
    Elitest thrill junkie
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    I agree that 950' can work well. 500' can be pretty marginal, but 950 can work if planned well, with the right grade it can be fun and take a while. Chutes are fun too, but you can't just put in 2 2-minute chutes and call it good, variety and the development will make it or break it, not 950'.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  25. #25
    Sun Devils
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    I totally agree, I didn't mean for that to come off negative in any way, I live in the East at the moment and I go to Highland Mountain Bike park all the time, it's about 90 mins from Boston, they only have about 600' and they do a helluva job with it, but there's always people trying to compare it to Whistler which is just insane to me.

    But Highland would be a good model for what I think Tucson could be, New England has a population density that can't be matched there but Arizona has more riders per capita, maybe it's a wash?

    Just some food for thought...

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