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  1. #1
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    SRAM needs to do their brake testing in Phoenix in the summer

    I gave SRAM guides a chance. Mostly because I'm cheap and didn't want to replace my brand new brakes on my Stumpjumper. They were good brakes. No complaints... Until last Saturday. Yes I still ride when it is really hot. I noticed the rear brake lever was not returning to its normal extented position. I was able to finish the ride and I called the bike shop. I was the 5th caller that day with the same problem. They were out of warranty replacement brakes so I called other shops and got the same story.

    How can SRAM let this problem continue? I thought it was supposed to be fixed in the 2018 brakes. Has anyone have guides that have lasted through a summer?

    I plan on getting them fixed through warranty and then putting them on Stevebay. Back to Shimano for me.

  2. #2
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    I had a friend who had the same thing happen with his guides. This was after warranty replacement. Seems like they can't handle the heat.
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  3. #3
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    Sram should get out of the business of making brakes altogether. This has been an issue for years and they still have not found an effective solution. How many other brake manufacturers have you heard of having this problem?

    I am genuinely surprised that they have not been sued into bankruptcy as a result of a rider being seriously injured due to a stuck front brake..

  4. #4
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    My wife took a spill due to her Sram brakes malfunctioning. They were part of a new build and failed within weeks. This was July/Aug timeframe. Replaced with XTs. Not worth the risk.
    The only trace I leave behind is tire marks.

  5. #5
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    Is Phoenix such a small market that it is not worth the R&D to fix? The risk of lawsuit is definitely there. I imagine there are other places just as hot with mountain bikers.

    I'm just genuinely surprised that this is still an issue after so many years of failures. Makes me wonder what other things they know are problems but not worth fixing.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slyham View Post
    I'm just genuinely surprised that this is still an issue after so many years of failures.
    Sadly, I'm not.

  7. #7
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    Mine too. Heat related sticking, fortunately I was home when they completely locked up. Too bad because they were really nice brakes for two or three rides.

    Shimano, Magura, Hope, TRB, etc. Lots of choices but unfortunately this SRAM garbage keeps getting spec'd on the new bikes.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by DustyChap View Post
    Lots of choices but unfortunately this SRAM garbage keeps getting spec'd on the new bikes.
    My guess is that either manufacturers get them cheap or are forced to take them as part of a SRAM package.

  9. #9
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    Itís my understanding that only a couple markets are affected with Phoenix being the largest. Itís not JUST the heat, but also direct exposure to the powerful sunlight we have.

    You can watch it happen on summer rides with no shade.

    I really like the feel and performance of SRAM brakes personally, but you definitely canít depend on them in the Phoenix area.
    Just like a raindrop, I was born to fall.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mad Reptilian View Post
    My wife took a spill due to her Sram brakes malfunctioning. They were part of a new build and failed within weeks. This was July/Aug timeframe. Replaced with XTs. Not worth the risk.
    The shimano brakes last about 2 years for me before the lever seals go out. No replacement seals are available. That isnít quite as bad if you buy new levers, but still disappointing you canít buy parts.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slyham View Post
    Is Phoenix such a small market that it is not worth the R&D to fix? The risk of lawsuit is definitely there. I imagine there are other places just as hot with mountain bikers.

    I'm just genuinely surprised that this is still an issue after so many years of failures. Makes me wonder what other things they know are problems but not worth fixing.
    It isn't just Phoenix. I went to a demo here in San diego last year in April and found that the brakes on a couple bikes were stuck. Demo guy: "oh yeah, they've been sitting in the sun for a while".

    That was the first I'd heard of such a problem, but not the first issue with SRAM/Avid brakes by any means. I've gone through quite a few models. They work great....until they don't. Random loss of pressure, sticking calipers, noisy rotors, you name it. Every year they claim they've fixed whatever the prior year issue was. The brakes get hyped up, early purchasers love them, then the stories of issues start coming out.

    Thanks, but I'll stick with my shimano brakes that work well enough, seldom have issues, and are dead easy to maintain.

    Global warming might be the death of SRAM brakes....

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by evdog View Post
    Global warming might be the death of SRAM brakes....
    🤣🤣🤣

  13. #13
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    I will gladly take all the Guide Codes off your hands. Send them my way. Seriously. You all are just too gnarly!
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    The shimano brakes last about 2 years for me before the lever seals go out. No replacement seals are available. That isnít quite as bad if you buy new levers, but still disappointing you canít buy parts.
    Just curious - do you still ride Shimano brakes and just replace the levers? Or have you gone another route?


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  15. #15
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    Iím on Cape Cod Massachusetts and it happened to my Guides. Not even that hot here but if you leave your bike in your car or in my shed and sun warms it , they will act up. My bike shop replaced both levers under warranty and so far so good. When in AZ my mtb there has Shimano and never had that problem


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  16. #16
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    I had a friend who put his bike in the heated brick garage at the start of the winter and when he took it out in the spring the back brake was seized. It's not just a heat thing. Maybe right now it's a heat issue but SRAM will fix that and next year they'll find a whole new way to feck your brakes up! Maybe someone at SRAM thinks it's funny.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blatant View Post
    Itís my understanding that only a couple markets are affected with Phoenix being the largest. Itís not JUST the heat, but also direct exposure to the powerful sunlight we have.

    You can watch it happen on summer rides with no shade.

    I really like the feel and performance of SRAM brakes personally, but you definitely canít depend on them in the Phoenix area.
    It gets hot everywhere. Just for less days per year. This SRAM heat mess has been going on for years. Do a search. I've seen it multiple times this month. The bike sits on the car rack in the sun, it sits in a hot parking lot in the sun for a few minutes while the rider gets ready to ride and one or more brakes is stuck on.

    I refused to buy a new bike two weeks ago because it had SRAM brakes. My wife test rode three bikes, all three sat in the sun as we talked. All three had SRAM brakes. One front seized up and had to be carried back in the store. It was the same old song and dance from the LBS, the sales kid said he loved SRAM brakes and had never heard of the problem. When I walked 30 feet to the service area to ask about the installation of Shimano brakes, the service guy said he replaced a brand new SRAM set under warranty an hour ago. People make up their own alternative realities about this stuff.

    It is time for this to end before someone gets hurt badly or killed.

    This one is a recall https://www.cpsc.gov/recalls/2018/sr...bicycle-brakes

    Why not this one?

    Guide RS Levers not Returning: Replaced Under Warranty

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by inonjoey View Post
    Just curious - do you still ride Shimano brakes and just replace the levers? Or have you gone another route?


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    After having xtr and xt fail multiple times and talking to the reps at races, Iím done and wonít be replacing any of my 3 sets with shimano anymore. I had xtr get warrantied, but had to buy xt levers due to this. The whole disposable culture is a big disappointment and you should be able to buy damn seals. The xt gave out on a vacation, so it screwed me over pretty bad. They wonít make or sell caliper seals or lever seals and as decent as the brakes are, the seals do not last forever. The shimano reps words were that ďyou should at least get a few seasons out of themĒ...and then what, Iím supposed to buy new brakes?

    If you switch bikes every year or two, this probably wonít come up, but around that time it seems they start leaking and eventually just give out.
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  19. #19
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    Easy, tiger. I donít need to search, Iíve had 7 or 8 sets of my personal brakes warrantied over the last few years.

    Just passing along info Iíd received from a couple folks I know in the industry.

    Quote Originally Posted by adaycj View Post
    It gets hot everywhere. Just for less days per year. This SRAM heat mess has been going on for years. Do a search. I've seen it multiple times this month. The bike sits on the car rack in the sun, it sits in a hot parking lot in the sun for a few minutes while the rider gets ready to ride and one or more brakes is stuck on.

    I refused to buy a new bike two weeks ago because it had SRAM brakes. My wife test rode three bikes, all three sat in the sun as we talked. All three had SRAM brakes. One front seized up and had to be carried back in the store. It was the same old song and dance from the LBS, the sales kid said he loved SRAM brakes and had never heard of the problem. When I walked 30 feet to the service area to ask about the installation of Shimano brakes, the service guy said he replaced a brand new SRAM set under warranty an hour ago. People make up their own alternative realities about this stuff.

    It is time for this to end before someone gets hurt badly or killed.

    This one is a recall https://www.cpsc.gov/recalls/2018/sr...bicycle-brakes

    Why not this one?

    Guide RS Levers not Returning: Replaced Under Warranty
    Just like a raindrop, I was born to fall.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    After having xtr and xt fail multiple times and talking to the reps at races, Iím done and wonít be replacing any of my 3 sets with shimano anymore. I had xtr get warrantied, but had to buy xt levers due to this. The whole disposable culture is a big disappointment and you should be able to buy damn seals. The xt gave out on a vacation, so it screwed me over pretty bad. They wonít make or sell caliper seals or lever seals and as decent as the brakes are, the seals do not last forever. The shimano reps words were that ďyou should at least get a few seasons out of themĒ...and then what, Iím supposed to buy new brakes?

    If you switch bikes every year or two, this probably wonít come up, but around that time it seems they start leaking and eventually just give out.
    Ugh, thatís disappointing. What are you looking at instead?

    Iím about to pull the trigger on brakes for my next build, but Iím done with SRAM brakes after my latest experience. I can get Shimano brakes at a great price and have liked them in the past, but I agree that not having access to the necessary parts is ridiculous.


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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    The whole disposable culture is a big disappointment and you should be able to buy damn seals.
    It is quite ridiculous that you are expected to bin a product when every single working part of it is perfect, except a tiny bit of rubber. It might be an indication of how cheap they are to manufacture when Shimano don't think it's worth the effort of supplying parts.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by inonjoey View Post
    I can get Shimano brakes at a great price and have liked them in the past, but I agree that not having access to the necessary parts is ridiculous.
    What seems especially mad is that they use mineral oil, so you could pull them apart and service them without having to deal with unhealthy DOT fluid. Yet you can buy parts for most DOT brakes and not nice, safe Shimano ones!

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    What seems especially mad is that they use mineral oil, so you could pull them apart and service them without having to deal with unhealthy DOT fluid. Yet you can buy parts for most DOT brakes and not nice, safe Shimano ones!
    Formula just recently changed to mineral oil, but I may go back to Hope for my next.
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  24. #24
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    And I thought I was the only one having this issue...

  25. #25
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    Is this a specific model of SRAM? My Code R brakes on my Sentinel seem fine. It's early in the heat season, though...

  26. #26
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    Has anyone had luck with the new internal kit for the Guides?

    I have 5 hot rides on my new 17í Yt Jeffsy and have yet to have any issues thus far.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by big0mike View Post
    Is this a specific model of SRAM?
    Seems to be a lottery. Fingers crossed for your next ride eh? ;0)

  28. #28
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    I've been riding the same pair of Maguras since 2015 with zero issues.

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    I too have similar issues with the Level TLM that came on my Primer. I am convinced SRAM can't make a good brake. Except maybe Code. I went with Magura MT7 and what a difference. It's just a bummer that so many companies spec their bikes with SRAM brakes. I end up running Magura on all my bikes due mostly to the modulation and overall feel.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by big0mike View Post
    Is this a specific model of SRAM? My Code R brakes on my Sentinel seem fine. It's early in the heat season, though...
    I had my bike in to the shop early on because the Guide RS brakes needed bleeding shortly after I got it and I couldn't get a decent bleed on the back one myself. They realized I had the older brakes, and got me a pair under the warranty. Since then, no problems at all, riding year 'round. Most recently, yesterday in the 98 degree afternoon heat.

    Having said that, I'd go with Maguras any day of the week. Had them on my previous bike and they were awesome. Just seem to be pricey.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by trmn8er View Post
    I am convinced SRAM can't make a good brake.
    It is weird. You do wonder how this can keep happening. Is it the same poor design team? Do they not invest enough in testing? Very weird.

  32. #32
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    SRAM needs to do their brake testing in Phoenix in the summer

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    My guess is that either manufacturers get them cheap or are forced to take them as part of a SRAM package.
    ^^ This. From what I understand SRAM mandates the package and forces companies to adopt an all inclusive deal. If you want to spec your bike with Eagle, SRAM require bike companies to get the crappy SRAM brakes as part of the deal. It really is unfortunate to see this style of marketing and I for one would like to see bike builds have options. I realize this could be challenging from a logistical standpoint but brakes (like pedals and saddles) are such a personal thing that it should be an option at the point of purchase. For example I just dropped a crap ton of money on a new Intense Primer only to have to swap out the crappy SRAM brakes for Magura. This wastes money I work hard for. When it comes to safety and in light of all the known issues you would think the bike companies would be more flexible too. Lastly why Intense would spec a trail bike with brakes this inadequate from a power standpoint safety aside is baffling.


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    Last edited by trmn8er; 07-12-2018 at 04:35 PM.

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    Or Australia. On my second warranty replacement set so far.

  34. #34
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    As others have said, extremely hot temperatures like we see in Phoenix aren't required to induce failure. I have seen them lock up when outside temps were between 70į and 80į, so this can be a problem literally anywhere during the summer..

    What a joke!

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by trmn8er View Post
    If you want to spec your bike with Eagle, SRAM require bike companies to get the crappy SRAM brakes as part of the deal.
    This sort of bullying is not unusual and it's hard to get around as SRAM will offer prices that make it difficult for the bike manufacturers to build competitive bikes using parts from smaller suppliers. You can beat them though, you just tell them to stick it.

    Big outfits like SRAM like to play tough as they think they have all the good cards but the bottom line is that they need to sell product as much as others need to buy it. If they loose enough sales because people won't take their brakes they'll soon change their tune.

  36. #36
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    Whats causing the issue and why haven't they fixed it?

  37. #37
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    Wait.....what now? People are still using SRAM brakes?
    2018 Intense Tracer
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  38. #38
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    not anymore

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillbo View Post
    Whats causing the issue and why haven't they fixed it?
    It's a seal issue of some sort in the master cylinder in 2015 and into 2016(?) brakes. The lever goes soft or directly to the bar in direct sunlight or when hot. It might feel fine in the garage but put a hair dryer on it and you can mimic the same response. In my case on Guide RSC's it was a simple warranty with SRAM. No issues so far on the replacement levers.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillbo View Post
    Whats causing the issue and why haven't they fixed it?
    People keep buying SRAM brakes and SRAM refuse to stop making them.

  41. #41
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    Transition Patrol specs SRAM Code RSC.
    Any problems with them in the heat?
    Not that we have alot of heat in BC; but winter awaits us in AJ
    Cheers.
    TS

  42. #42
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    You guys have made me paranoid. I took the Guide's off my Yeti and replaced them with Hope's but was planning on reusing the Guide's on my latest build, bought new brake pads and everything.

    Put them on the bike yesterday and they didn't feel right, so pulled them right back off and ordered some XTs.
    Hey guys, lets go play bieks!

  43. #43
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    XT Brakes.....

    SRAM needs to do their brake testing in Phoenix in the summer-ron.jpg




  44. #44
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    New brake Day. What a difference at first impression. Did 21 miles and 2250 feet so it was a decent test. Good riddance to SRAM brakes for me anyway. I've heard some people are quite happy with SRAM brakes. More power to ya! Love Magura feel and these babies are super powerful. Magura are not without their challenges either but I've seen the brand evolve, make changes to improve. For example, the NEXT series are much better than the older MT6 and MT8 I had in the past. I suspect some of the frustration some have with SRAM brakes is the perception of them not showing sustained improvement in some issues. Having to warranty levers (my TLM) brakes is a hassle too and can lead to poor perception even if they are trying to fix the issue.




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    Last edited by trmn8er; 07-15-2018 at 07:55 PM.

  45. #45
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    Not sure if 100% right... but, I'm pretty sure I am one of if not the first person to identify the SRAM Guide issue a few years ago.

    Without a doubt, I think it's fair to communicate your frustration, etc when you do run into a legitimate issue. I also believe that when companies are irresponsible, don't engage, express care/concern, or fail to actively respond to a developing (or known issue) that they deserve whatever criticism comes their way.

    Without a doubt, SRAM took longer than I would have liked to respond to the Guide issue when it was initially identified, but respond they have... and VERY professionally in my experience/opinion. Getting things sorted is as simple as reaching out to a reputable local bike shop... and if you don't have one of those, try reaching out to SRAM directly.

    On the other hand several of the companies/their products touted here as somehow better than SRAM's brakes have had SIGNIFICANT issues over the years too. Yet, anecdotal evidence and my experience more than indicates that those companies have not acknowledged nor responded as professionally as SRAM. YMMV.

    Below are two well documented examples of pro riders who's careers suffered (one more significantly than the other) due to known issues with brakes... from a VERY reputable brand(s) other than Avid/SRAM:

    1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kccKG6uCKw

    2. Start watching from 14:11

    https://dirtmountainbike.com/videos/...s-nearly-died/

    If you truly LOVE mountain biking than why not choose to SUPPORT the companies/people that make the products that let you get your shred on by giving them the benefit of the doubt, and the opportunity to step-up and respond if/when their products fail?...

    Wouldn't you like to be given the opportunity to be able to step-up and do the right thing if your own reputation was on the line?

    Hey, let's be honest here. But lets be fair too!
    CB

  46. #46
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    RE: Aaron Gwin crash and brake fail

    Official word from Shimano was he was running an one-off proto XTR lever for two years, that he insisted on keeping due to its feel and never having a problem with it, despite offers to get him on other brakes, and that prior impacts had bent the lever's piston. I can easily imagine a bike taking a hit to the brake lever over the course of a racing season--heck, one of my brake levers came out wonky when I laid my bike in a pick-up's bed on its side, kind of wedged between other cargo, suspecting that the wheel got turned from the jostling in-transit, and the bike's weight ended up resting on the lever. In other words, the lightweight brake lever failed from physical abuse. Who knows how many times Aaron let his bike fall to the ground or hit some tree up until his '12 World Champ run (last race of the season).

    I had a feeling that this SRAM thread was about their stuck piston that swelled, even in climates cooler than AZ, since reports of it have been coming in for 2+ years (since before summer '16). Direct sunlight warming up the lever seems to be a common cause.

    Shimano's not flawless. They had an issue with wandering bite point, but that was *not* a ride-killing flaw, and it was addressed with a running change in assembly. To explain their "on/off feel", their servo wave (equivalent to SRAM's Swing Link) helps to get the pads contacting sooner with higher leverage early in the stroke, and the leverage drops off to offer modulation later in the lever stroke. Riders running super short throw weren't getting into the modulation part of the stroke, and are probably better off without the linkage (Hayes Dominion seems to serve these types of riders).

    I just think it's low that you're attacking a competing brand based on that case, when the rest of the story implies that Shimano brakes just don't fail in normal circumstances. A pic of Aaron's brake, and why it wasn't producing pressure (from this source):

    SRAM needs to do their brake testing in Phoenix in the summer-aarongwinshimanobrakefail.jpg
    Can see how the lever itself has physical damage on the outside. One bent part (the lever's pivot?) led to the scratching/wear on one side of the part that produces pressure. This is after 2 years of use.

    Surprised and disappointed in SRAM to still be hearing about this problem regarding their brakes. I guess I should expect it, considering their history. I remember their fiasco with their CX brakes failing in the cold, which was bad enough to warrant a safety recall and a public apology from the CEO. Plenty of their products have issues, like their reverb reliability, 11spd drivetrain backpedaling issue, meshing issue with upper RD pulley, RDs loosening up, integrated rollamajig seizing up, etc. Seems like they addressed issues with new redesigned product, rather than fix the old stuff. Guess they can leave it to the aftermarket and mark-up their MSRP so much that they have the revenue to supply warranty replacements.
    Last edited by ninjichor; 07-15-2018 at 07:26 PM. Reason: clarification

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by ninjichor View Post
    RE: Aaron Gwin crash and brake fail

    Official word from Shimano was he was running a proto XTR lever that he insisted on keeping due to its feel, despite offers to get him on other brakes, and that prior impacts had bent the piston.

    I had a feeling that this SRAM thread was about their stuck piston that swelled, even in climates cooler than AZ, since reports of it have been coming in for 2+ years (since before summer '16). Direct sunlight warming up the lever seems to be a common cause.

    Shimano's not flawless. They had an issue with wandering bite point, but that was a crash causing flaw, and it was addressed with a running change in assembly. That and their "servo wave" version is not for people who like super short lever throw, as it'll feel on/off to them. The servo wave (equivalent to SRAM's Swing Link) helps to get the pads contacting sooner with higher leverage early in the stroke; the leverage drops off to offer modulation later in the lever stroke.
    The first SRAM Guide issues presented fairly uniformly. Arizona had some early hot ambient outdoor temperatures that spring. The bikes that presented first were actually stationary, hadn't been ridden for hours, and were not in direct sunlight. Without a doubt the issue probably would have presented sooner with downhill run stopping heated dot fluid. However, all of the lift served bike parks in North America were still under snow at the time.

    Not an engineer... that said, I believe that the presentation of piston drag in the master cylinder bore indicates some sort of physical change to the piston (diameter?) and or seals. Either way the 2nd generation Guide lever assemblies have been bomb proof. Those of you who are worried... don't be. G2's work GREAT!

    For the record, a dragging brake in the desert due to the piston not returning could mean a sweltering walk out... and depending on the time of day and the temperature, that could be dangerous. However, a brake dragging is a far cry from a brake not stopping you. I would rather have no brake issues at all but, if I had to choose between a dragging brake, slow lever return, and not stopping... I know which I would choose. YMMV.

    FWIW, my favorite brakes over the past year have been Code RSC's (with organic pads) and and Shimano Zee's.

    I don't care what anyone says about this brand, that brand, and absolute breaking power!... the on/off light switch lack-of-modulation (no matter what the marketing hype says) of some brakes isn't just a performance inconvenience, it could literally kill you in the desert.

    Regarding the brake issues in the videos I posted: Your comments aren't 100% accurate. Many race teams continue to experiment by mixing one model of PRODUCTION lever with another model of PRODUCTION caliper (think XTR levers with Saint 4 piston calipers). The reasons are many. In the cases I presented the issues that occurred are well known and had NOTHING to do with impacts to pistons or the like.

    By the way, I think it would be cooler to NOT say anything that could be misinterpreted as 'bagging' on ANY brand until that brand demonstrates that they deserve it.

    Good stopping to ya!
    CB

  48. #48
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    Just checked my outgoing emails. Looks like I returned my first set of bad Guides in the fall of 2015. Iíve warrantied a minimum of a half-dozen sets of Guides.

    I like SRAM, particularly drivetrains, and I like the performance of Guide brakes. And to their credit, the response to warranty claims has been excellent for me. But that doesnít take into account an actual, you know, solution to the problem. Itís been three years and their brakes still exhibit the same known problem.

    Responding and solving are two different things. Letís not conflate them.
    Just like a raindrop, I was born to fall.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blatant View Post
    Just checked my outgoing emails. Looks like I returned my first set of bad Guides in the fall of 2015. I've warrantied a minimum of a half-dozen sets of Guides.

    I like SRAM, particularly drivetrains, and I like the performance of Guide brakes. And to their credit, the response to warranty claims has been excellent for me. But that doesn't take into account an actual, you know, solution to the problem. It's been three years and their brakes still exhibit the same known problem.

    Responding and solving are two different things. Let's not conflate them.
    Conflate? Do you mean like Respond + Solve = Resolve?

    Hmmmm.... maybe you can be a little more specific?

    The reason I posted here (maybe I shouldn't have) is that I used to work for a bicycle distribution company. I oversaw many product lines, and worked to support our people who from time to time worked to RESOLVE warranty issues. Therefore I am familiar with how companies have historically responded to MANY different issues over a fair number of years.

    Full disclosure: I don't work for SRAM, and I'm not sponsored by SRAM. More importantly, I think that having more than two companies that make brakes, drive trains, and suspension, is part of the reason bikes keep getting better.

    Your comment "solution" is loaded.

    To some riders a "solution" would mean financial compensation for time lost. For others it would mean a part is installed/replaced, as quickly as possible, at little or no cost to them. A "solution" is specific to the person who is being served, and depends upon their unique experience and expectations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blatant View Post
    It's been three years and their brakes still exhibit the same known problem.
    Your assertion above indicates that you feel as though you are speaking factually on the subject. Based on your assertion and the fact that this thread is being highly viewed, and that some of the people viewing it may use the information here to make decisions in the analog world... It would be responsible of you to share with all of us:

    How and or why you believe/know/think that SRAM's Generation 2 Guide brake levers don't solve the problem that presented with the Generation 1?

    and...

    How can people tell if they have a Generation 1 brake lever mounted on their bikes or a Generation 2 lever?


    Thanks for helping everyone out!
    CB
    Last edited by CANADIANBACON; 07-15-2018 at 08:50 PM.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by ninjichor View Post
    I just think it's low that you're attacking a competing brand based on that case
    I have not attacked, criticized, or brought up a single brand of brakes other than to mention my favorites that are on two of the bikes I currently ride.

    This:

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjichor View Post
    Surprised and disappointed in SRAM to still be hearing about this problem regarding their brakes. I guess I should expect it, considering their history. I remember their fiasco with their CX brakes failing in the cold, which was bad enough to warrant a safety recall and a public apology from the CEO. Plenty of their products have issues, like their reverb reliability, 11spd drivetrain backpedaling issue, meshing issue with upper RD pulley, RDs loosening up, integrated rollamajig seizing up, etc. Seems like they addressed issues with new redesigned product, rather than fix the old stuff. Guess they can leave it to the aftermarket and mark-up their MSRP so much that they have the revenue to supply warranty replacements.
    = "attacking" a brand.

    And it also epitomizes how pathetic this forum can be.

    Instead acknowledging that NO company is perfect, and deciding to help your fellow rider have a great ride no matter what products are bolted to their bikes, some seem to prefer to use it as an emotional dumping ground.

    To those of you who are concerned and looking for help, here's the link so you can reach out to the people who WILL help you.

    https://www.sram.com/contact


    Happy Trails!
    CB

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by CANADIANBACON View Post
    and...

    How can people tell if they have a Generation 1 brake lever mounted on their bikes or a Generation 2 lever?
    [/I]
    So, what's the definitive answer to this question?

    Mark

    Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
    2017 Yeti SB4.5c, stock, except for a Wolf 28T oval chainring

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by CANADIANBACON View Post
    I have not attacked, criticized, or brought up a single brand of brakes other than to mention my favorites that are on two of the bikes I currently ride.

    This:



    = "attacking" a brand.

    And it also epitomizes how pathetic this forum can be.

    Instead acknowledging that NO company is perfect, and deciding to help your fellow rider have a great ride no matter what products are bolted to their bikes, some seem to prefer to use it as an emotional dumping ground.

    To those of you who are concerned and looking for help, here's the link so you can reach out to the people who WILL help you.

    https://www.sram.com/contact


    Happy Trails!
    CB
    I will say this; I have tried to reach SRAM directly on more than one occasion. In my case, they I was told I only could deal with the dealer, not them directly. While I fully understand this business model, what is the point of having numbers to call if it's only for a dealer? Not everyone lives close to their respective dealer. Additionally, people do get frustrated and want the manufacturer to listen to their concerns. In my opinion, SRAM makes this very difficult and tends to "manage by avoidance". I do not hate SRAM. I have had multiple bikes with their drivetrains including two right now. I'm a fan of Eagle. Yes, these forums can be an "emotional dumping ground" because people work hard for their money and expect companies to be responsive, communicative, and most importantly learn from mistakes to build a better product.

    I'm not attacking a brand as you put it, I'm stating that in my case, I have been unhappy with their brake product. And I'm not crazy about how hard it was for me to speak with them directly. When I have a lot of their products which I like, it would be great to see them make sustained improvement in an area that many feel they are coming up short (no pun intended). In this case, brakes. Lastly, I do agree that no company that makes brakes has been without problems that is for sure. Cheers!
    Last edited by trmn8er; 07-15-2018 at 09:35 PM.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by CANADIANBACON View Post
    I have not attacked, criticized, or brought up a single brand of brakes other than to mention my favorites that are on two of the bikes I currently ride.

    This:



    = "attacking" a brand.

    And it also epitomizes how pathetic this forum can be.

    Instead acknowledging that NO company is perfect, and deciding to help your fellow rider have a great ride no matter what products are bolted to their bikes, some seem to prefer to use it as an emotional dumping ground.

    To those of you who are concerned and looking for help, here's the link so you can reach out to the people who WILL help you.

    https://www.sram.com/contact


    Happy Trails!
    CB
    The forum is pathetic because SRAM's rep is being hurt due to cases in which its products legitimately fail with no fault due to the end user? Also because your attempt at hurting other brand's rep was countered? I joined because I wanted to discuss/review products, preferably not leaving out legitimate cases like this. I didn't join to deal with people with fallacious logic, and those who have problems dealing with emotion.

    Compared to a company like SRAM, some companies are relatively close enough for such a description to pass, so I can't agree to acknowledge that no company is perfect. Being frustrated with faulty product is natural. Choosing to ditch a brand due to reputation is natural too, especially when the brand is to blame (as opposed to the user) and when you verify such reputation first hand.

    Contact SRAM to receive a replacement of a product that won't get fixed until the next generation? Repeat until you get upgraded to it? Possibly get told to bring it to a dealer if you are abroad or bought it online?

    FYI, you're the one bringing the trash that makes the forum pathetic. I called out one case of you being low, but I now see how you're continuously judging others poorly.

    P.S. prototype product failing is part of product development. Pros are compensated for product testing, but likely are given a choice. I had Shimano replace a RD under warranty that was my fault (chain too short, didn't account for chain growth from FS)... filled out a form I found online, sent it with the busted RD to the the address on it with copy of receipt, and got back a new RD in under 3 days. Honestly didn't expect that, but the guys I was riding with encouraged me to do so.

  54. #54
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    I like my Magura brakes.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by CANADIANBACON View Post
    Not sure if 100% right... but, I'm pretty sure I am one of if not the first person to identify the SRAM Guide issue a few years ago...
    I'd say that makes you pretty late to the party as a lot of us were dealing with this crap when the brakes said Avid on them. Pretty much everything else you've said is wrong too. SRAM clearly have deeply embedded quality control issues, which I personally think are down to cost-cutting, so no, I won't be supporting their brakes. They've been getting the benefit of doubt for a long time now but time's up.

  56. #56
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    Been running a set of Hayes Stroker ACEs and Stroker Trails now for five years on four different bikes and have had little to no issues with either set. Just rebuilt both of them this year and probably get another five years out of them.

    Their new Dominion A4s look like they are going to be really nice brakes.
    https://www.pinkbike.com/news/review...-a4-brake.html

  57. #57
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    you're implying that Sram does testing on their brakes. I don't have any reason to believe they do. Keep in mind; they've been trying and failing to make a working brake since the early 2000s.

    For what it's worth, sustained braking generates a lot more heat than weather. Guides don't work will in the arctic either.

  58. #58
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    CB: Are you being paid by the word? Being pedantic and talking down to other riders just makes you sound like a d!ck.

    Solution, to me, is pretty simple. Design and produce a braking system that doesnít use plastic ports in the master cylinder that swell in the heat, causing the lever to suck back to the bar and make the bike unrideable.

    Iím not an industry insider, Iím a rider. I donít know specifically how to tell one gen. from another. I do know Iíve had at least three pair of Guides that were supposedly the newest design based on manufacturer production codes. This was in late 2017. All failed the same way (lever sucking back to bar when hot).

    As many have stated, I love SRAM in general. I think their forks are the best in market as well as their drivetrains. But I no longer run their brakes. Period.
    Just like a raindrop, I was born to fall.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joules View Post
    You're implying that Sram does testing on their brakes.
    I suspect it's down to poor control over their manufacturers. Factories in China making parts to the wrong spec, using older parts that don't fit properly, that kind of thing and the procedures needed to catch the mistakes are not in place. Only a guess obviously but the fact they keep suffering issues year after year suggests there is a major flaw in their manufacturing model.

  60. #60
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    Recently I had a buddy who was able to work out a pretty good resolution. The bike he was buying was an Intense Recluse Pro and came with Guide RS. He asked the shop If they would sell him XTs at cost if he bought the bike from them. They agreed and he sold the Guide RS set on Steve bay for the same cost of the XTs. The shop installed them as well. The only thing he opted to buy was the Match Maker adapter. I know it's not ideal to need this type of work around. But if you are buying a new bike, might be worth asking. Most shops will see it as an opportunity to get more future business and good word of mouth.

    Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk

  61. #61
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    slx, xt, and xtr brakes are pretty much all the same.... and all of them are awesome... slx are least expensive of the 3

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScaldedDogCO View Post
    So, what's the definitive answer to this question?

    Mark

    Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
    There's some mention of the serial number range that supposedly would be problem-free in the brake subforum here. First two digits of the SN should indicate which week of the year it was made, and 4rd digit to indicate year. Wanna say "22T7" (meaning 22nd week of 2017) was supposed to be the magic point. How accurate that is, I dunno.

    I do know that the set of Guide R's that came off my 2018 Stumpy after two rides, then sat in my garage until today, managed to lock up from just the heat in my garage. Took them to the shop, and they're doing a warranty claim on them now. Same shop also had another customer recently that did the longest stoppie of their life when theirs locked up the front wheel. Good times.

    Did manage to get the rear lever to free up after it was subjected to air conditioning and cooled off for a while. Put that same lever on the dash as I drove to the shop for all of 15 minutes, and in that much time it didn't lock back up, but it was already dragging noticeably.

    Serial numbers 17T9 and 15T9 prefix for reference. (Found on the underside of the caliper.)

    My bikes will continue to run M8000 and M8020s =)

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