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  1. #1
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    So What is YOUR Plan to STOP Rogue Trail Building in Sedona???

    Since I am the only one to publicly come up with a plan to stop rogue trail building in Sedona, what is your plan BUBBA?

  2. #2
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    OK Bubba, how about the Sedona mountain bike community reporting any new trails they spot being built while they are on a mountain bike ride or hike? Did any mountain bikers see the new rogue trail off Brewer being built? Was the person who spotted it a mountain biker?

    Maybe the guy who found the new trail has a talent for finding new rogue trails and would be willing to head up a group to find new trails being built.

  3. #3
    Meatbomb
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    Dude.. you really need to take your meds. You're arguing with yourself now.


    Is BUBBA your imaginary friend

  4. #4
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    Here in Cottonwood, just to the south of your permenant digs TD, several of my local mountainbiker friends and I have formed a sort of neighborhood trail watch group. We monitor google earth mapimagery to try and spot trail builders in the act.

    Working together as a team, we are able to keep our community under constant survailance. Any time we spot someone engaged in rogue trail building, we are ready to alert the authorities. The only downside seems to be that...google earth images for our area were taken June 13, 2011. Idealy we would be able to observe these trails in real time, but Hey...We're all doing what we can in the spirit of your original post.

    This is something you could even do while your wife is driving the motorcasa down the road, TD. And with your computer expertise and map making experience, I'll bet you could find a way to get more recent updated trail imagery as well.

    Anyway, this is what we are doing in Cottonwood. I don't see why this wouldn't work in Sedona as well. So...If I come up with any more good ideas and plans you could enact up your way, you can be sure that I will forward them to you. Because the important thing is that we get everybody involved.

    Working together we can stop this menace.

  5. #5
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    Keep you out of town?

  6. #6
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    Who has the best bloody mary in sedona?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Centurion_ View Post
    Here in Cottonwood, just to the south of your permenant digs TD, several of my local mountainbiker friends and I have formed a sort of neighborhood trail watch group. We monitor google earth mapimagery to try and spot trail builders in the act.

    Working together as a team, we are able to keep our community under constant survailance. Any time we spot someone engaged in rogue trail building, we are ready to alert the authorities. The only downside seems to be that...google earth images for our area were taken June 13, 2011. Idealy we would be able to observe these trails in real time, but Hey...We're all doing what we can in the spirit of your original post.

    This is something you could even do while your wife is driving the motorcasa down the road, TD. And with your computer expertise and map making experience, I'll bet you could find a way to get more recent updated trail imagery as well.

    Anyway, this is what we are doing in Cottonwood. I don't see why this wouldn't work in Sedona as well. So...If I come up with any more good ideas and plans you could enact up your way, you can be sure that I will forward them to you. Because the important thing is that we get everybody involved.

    Working together we can stop this menace.
    Centurion:

    Great idea. It's interesting all the supposed mountain biking leaders aren't coming forward with some ideas on how to curtail unsanctioned trail building of poorly built trails. I was brainstorming at the Bend Brewfest today trying to come up some other idea on how to track down the individual who built this last trail.

    I ran across a guy who claims to be a professional trail builder tracker. I told him he can live at my house for free in exchange for tracking fees. I told him I would teach him to mountain bike when I get back to town.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails So What is YOUR Plan to STOP Rogue Trail Building in Sedona???-hunter.jpg  


  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by m77ranger View Post
    Who has the best bloody mary in sedona?
    Its a toss up between Nick's, Reds, or Ken's Creekside.
    The secret to mountain biking is pretty simple. The slower you go the more likely it is you’ll crash.
    - Julie Furtado

  9. #9
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    FÅch Sedona!
    Up the butt for that madder!

    im gonna ride around city hall doing wheelies!
    "Wisdom is the Chief element of happiness, and then there is ice cream!"

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    what is your plan
    Cialis.
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormin_Norman View Post
    im gonna ride around city hall doing wheelies!
    courthouse front staircases on a sunday were always fun,, but that was when i could only be charged as a minor...

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scotth72 View Post
    Keep you out of town?
    i laffed.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by longhairmike View Post
    courthouse front staircases on a sunday were always fun,, but that was when i could only be charged as a minor...
    Yeah, those were the days.
    Tomfoolery, riding with no shoes, careless abandon.

    Now this crap?
    REALLY?

    Does he even really ride?

    This is becoming legendary nothing...

    But I digress, I'm going to go sweat my butt off for a while and ride!
    "Wisdom is the Chief element of happiness, and then there is ice cream!"

  14. #14
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    We need to get back on track and come up with some solution to this recent downhill type trail build. For years the irresponsible downhill rider types that construct steep fall line trails on loose soil that heavily erodes over a short period has given mountain biking a bad name in numerous communities.

    So since none of the mountain bike leaders have come up with any ideas I have come up with another brilliant idea. A while back Ranger 77 came to me and asked if I would donate some money ($95) to support FGR. I told him I wanted to wait to see if ra was going to get the approval of a new trail in Flag before I committed to such a large sum.

    Well while I was on another 25 mile downhill ride in Bend, OR I had a lot of time to think about what I would consider to be a WIN/WIN proposal to the Sedona Forest Service.

    I believe FGR has a current member ship of 20 or more riders. They all are committed to proving they on on board with no more unsanctioned trail building and they want to be involved in the building of a new Mt. Elden maintainable downhill trail.

    My idea is that ra or Ranger 77 meet with the Sedona FS and ask them if they can do the decommissioning of the new poorly constructed trail in Sedona. Once the decommissioning is done Ranger 77 can give Ch3 a call and have them come out and do a news piece on the decommissioning process that was done by a local downhill club who is committed to work within the system to build new maintainable downhill trails.

    After the decommissioning is done by FGR and the news piece with Ch3 is done, I will kick in the $95 Ranger 77 had asked me to contribute previously.

    TD

  15. #15
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    I bet Friends of the Forest would be more than happy to decomission the trail.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    I bet Friends of the Forest would be more than happy to decomission the trail.
    rock:

    You are probably right, but if they do they get the PR rather than FGR. I'll offer the same deal to FOF, if they go out and re-due all their poorly constructed water diverters.

    TD

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    We need to get back on track and come up with some solution to this recent downhill type trail build. For years the irresponsible downhill rider types that construct steep fall line trails on loose soil that heavily erodes over a short period has given mountain biking a bad name in numerous communities.

    So since none of the mountain bike leaders have come up with any ideas I have come up with another brilliant idea. A while back Ranger 77 came to me and asked if I would donate some money ($95) to support FGR. I told him I wanted to wait to see if ra was going to get the approval of a new trail in Flag before I committed to such a large sum.

    Well while I was on another 25 mile downhill ride in Bend, OR I had a lot of time to think about what I would consider to be a WIN/WIN proposal to the Sedona Forest Service.

    I believe FGR has a current member ship of 20 or more riders. They all are committed to proving they on on board with no more unsanctioned trail building and they want to be involved in the building of a new Mt. Elden maintainable downhill trail.

    My idea is that ra or Ranger 77 meet with the Sedona FS and ask them if they can do the decommissioning of the new poorly constructed trail in Sedona. Once the decommissioning is done Ranger 77 can give Ch3 a call and have them come out and do a news piece on the decommissioning process that was done by a local downhill club who is committed to work within the system to build new maintainable downhill trails.

    After the decommissioning is done by FGR and the news piece with Ch3 is done, I will kick in the $95 Ranger 77 had asked me to contribute previously.

    TD
    Flagstaff Gravity Riders.

  18. #18
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    My plan is simply to not ride rogue trails and to not build rogue trails. If more people did that, then I think we should all be fine.
    Getting a dropper post is like getting a bidet. I didn't know I needed one until I get one and boy, does my ass thank me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PrincipalRider View Post
    My plan is simply to not ride rogue trails and to not build rogue trails. If more people did that, then I think we should all be fine.
    This

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrincipalRider View Post
    My plan is simply to not ride rogue trails and to not build rogue trails. If more people did that, then I think we should all be fine.
    PR:

    You obviously aren't a very skilled adventurous rider, or your full of BS. Most all the TD haters ride the rogue (user built) trails in Sedona because they are the best trails for the advanced skilled riders.

    Recently the best local bike shop showed a highly skilled touron one of Sedona's best user built rides. The guy had a world class experience and had no clue where he was at, he just knew that was one hell of a ride.

    If you aren't full of BS you are definitely to be commended Have you ever inhaled? Do you even own a hoe?

  21. #21
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    I am not perfect. I have done some things I am not proud of. However, as I have seen the consequences of my actions when I have ridden rogue trails, I have decided that it is best if I ride the trails that are sanctioned by whoever owns or officially stewards the land on which I am riding. It is called being a mature adult who looks out for the good of the many instead of just myself.

    Despite all of the great trails you have claimed to build, you still do not have license to do so. No matter how you cut it, what you do goes against the laws that we as a society have put in place.
    Getting a dropper post is like getting a bidet. I didn't know I needed one until I get one and boy, does my ass thank me.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrincipalRider View Post
    I am not perfect. I have done some things I am not proud of. However, as I have seen the consequences of my actions when I have ridden rogue trails, ..
    Could you expound a little on these "consequences" you have seen as a result of riding trails not built by a duely trained and licensed, sanctioned, permited Forrest Service sponsored trail builder?
    I Where I ride there are no such trails. All our trails are either rogue or pieced together roads, fire trails, foot paths, rv tracks, and cow paths out here in the desert. And while I have seen no negative consequences as of yet...maybe I am missing something. Please educate me. What are the consequences of riding a rogue trail?


    Despite all of the great trails you have claimed to build, you still do not have license to do so.
    Trails TD has "claimed" to build?" Are you serious?

    You can cap on him all day long (I know I do), but once you infer that Traildoc has not actually buit a ton of top notch sustainable trails, even I have to speak up. Because, love him or hate him...TD has built miles and miles and miles of trails and worked to maintain them...by himself and with others.

    When you infer that he hasn't you lose all credability.

    No matter how you cut it, what you do goes against the laws that we as a society have put in place.
    TD got busted for doing a one by four foot unsanctioned trail improvement. He paid his fine. Give it a rest.

  23. #23
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    I Think We Have Got One Andy

    Quote Originally Posted by PrincipalRider View Post
    I am not perfect. I have done some things I am not proud of. However, as I have seen the consequences of my actions when I have ridden rogue trails, I have decided that it is best if I ride the trails that are sanctioned by whoever owns or officially stewards the land on which I am riding. It is called being a mature adult who looks out for the good of the many instead of just myself.

    Despite all of the great trails you have claimed to build, you still do not have license to do so. No matter how you cut it, what you do goes against the laws that we as a society have put in place.
    PR:

    Since Centurion told you what he thinks the story of TD is, you still haven't said whether you inhaled or not. What exactly is a mature adult? If not riding user built trails is part of the definition, I think you might be one of the only mature adults signed in on the Arizona forum.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    I bet Friends of the Forest would be more than happy to decomission the trail.
    My bet is that they already have. It's amazing how much people can get done simply by following the protocols that the Red Rock Ranger District has set in place. It seems pretty simple to me- don't do any unauthorized trail work. ...Or you could skip getting authorization and just do it and wind up sacrificing one of your mortgage payments to the feds and have a 6 month "vacation" because you can't ride anywhere within a 5 hour drive of home. It isn't rocket science.
    The secret to mountain biking is pretty simple. The slower you go the more likely it is you’ll crash.
    - Julie Furtado

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    We need to get back on track and come up with some solution to this recent downhill type trail build. For years the irresponsible downhill rider types that construct steep fall line trails on loose soil that heavily erodes over a short period has given mountain biking a bad name in numerous communities.

    So since none of the mountain bike leaders have come up with any ideas I have come up with another brilliant idea. A while back Ranger 77 came to me and asked if I would donate some money ($95) to support FGR. I told him I wanted to wait to see if ra was going to get the approval of a new trail in Flag before I committed to such a large sum.

    Well while I was on another 25 mile downhill ride in Bend, OR I had a lot of time to think about what I would consider to be a WIN/WIN proposal to the Sedona Forest Service.

    I believe FGR has a current member ship of 20 or more riders. They all are committed to proving they on on board with no more unsanctioned trail building and they want to be involved in the building of a new Mt. Elden maintainable downhill trail.

    My idea is that ra or Ranger 77 meet with the Sedona FS and ask them if they can do the decommissioning of the new poorly constructed trail in Sedona. Once the decommissioning is done Ranger 77 can give Ch3 a call and have them come out and do a news piece on the decommissioning process that was done by a local downhill club who is committed to work within the system to build new maintainable downhill trails.

    After the decommissioning is done by FGR and the news piece with Ch3 is done, I will kick in the $95 Ranger 77 had asked me to contribute previously.

    TD
    Flagstaff Gravity Riders promotes nothing but positive energy towards the cause. That is all.

  26. #26
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    "professional trail builder tracker"

    Could be a new reality show.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona View Post
    Flagstaff Gravity Riders promotes nothing but positive energy towards the cause. That is all.
    ra:

    I was hoping for something more specific. Your statement was kinda like the stuff we are getting from our politicians these days. I want you to know I really appreciate what you are trying to do and I hope your dreams come true. Someday I hope you can say I told you so this is the way to go. If I am still alive then I will throw a party for you. What is you favorite adult beverage?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails So What is YOUR Plan to STOP Rogue Trail Building in Sedona???-hwy-49.jpg  


  28. #28
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    fify
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails So What is YOUR Plan to STOP Rogue Trail Building in Sedona???-hwy-49.jpg  


  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by woahey View Post
    My bet is that they already have. It's amazing how much people can get done simply by following the protocols that the Red Rock Ranger District has set in place. It seems pretty simple to me- don't do any unauthorized trail work. ...Or you could skip getting authorization and just do it and wind up sacrificing one of your mortgage payments to the feds and have a 6 month "vacation" because you can't ride anywhere within a 5 hour drive of home. It isn't rocket science.
    Woahey:

    There you go again. Do you want to bet that the FOF has done the restoration of that project, and I will bet they haven't? I will pay your membership to the Sedona Mountain Bike Club if they have and if they haven't you pay mine. Either way it goes to a good cause, right? Are we on?

    You say it is amazing what people can get done when following the protocols. I assume you are not including yourself in that statement, right? I didn't know Northern AZ took five hours to cross, how fast are you driving or are you talking about riding a bike?

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by m77ranger View Post
    fify
    Ranger are you a college graduate yet? If not maybe you could do a research project on how to stop unsanctioned trail projects in the eastern part of Sedona. I understand there are some trails over there that the FS might not be happy about riders riding even though there is nothing wrong with riding off trail.

    Let's get in front of these potential problem areas before they become a problem. Your in a leadership position now and we need your help in stamping out anything that could be construed as a future problem.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    Ranger are you a college graduate yet? If not maybe you could do a research project on how to stop unsanctioned trail projects in the eastern part of Sedona. I understand there are some trails over there that the FS might not be happy about riders riding even though there is nothing wrong with riding off trail.

    Let's get in front of these potential problem areas before they become a problem. Your in a leadership position now and we need your help in stamping out anything that could be construed as a future problem.
    I've been sucked into your trolling too many times. I think you need to come to terms with the fact that you have been kicked out of the forest and you lost any influence you had around here. I don't speak for FBR, but the people that are doing the work in FBR are better riders and trail builders than you and they don't need your bad advice. I feel bad for you. I would feel angry and want to lash out at people on the internet If my poor decisions led to me being kicked out of forest too. I hope things improve for you when you are allowed to return. I still think you are a better person in real life than the guy you play on the internet. I need to spend more time getting people excited to ride bikes and less time playing internet thug.

    Good luck John.
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    Quote Originally Posted by m77ranger View Post
    I've been sucked into your trolling too many times. I think you need to come to terms with the fact that you have been kicked out of the forest and you lost any influence you had around here. I don't speak for FBR, but the people that are doing the work in FBR are better riders and trail builders than you and they don't need your bad advice. I feel bad for you. I would feel angry and want to lash out at people on the internet If my poor decisions led to me being kicked out of forest too. I hope things improve for you when you are allowed to return. I still think you are a better person in real life than the guy you play on the internet. I need to spend more time getting people excited to ride bikes and less time playing internet thug.

    Good luck John.
    OK I will take the bait which trails have you or ra personally built that is better than the Aerie trail in Sedona or the Renegade trial in the Whistler Bike Park? If you don't answer the question then some us might think you are being kind of hypocritical.

    Being a better builder is somewhat subjective, but when thousands of people ride a trail each year that at least means the trail is popular among the masses which is where I choose to do a lot of my work.

  33. #33
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    You don't say!?
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  34. #34
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    Whats the difference between a 'Rogue' trail and a 'User Built' trail ?


    Do you realize you are now trying to stop people from doing what you have been doing all along? You ever consider politics?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillbo View Post
    Whats the difference between a 'Rogue' trail and a 'User Built' trail ?


    Do you realize you are now trying to stop people from doing what you have been doing all along? You ever consider politics?
    P:

    What I am trying to do is market mountain biking to the advanced masses who want to ride a bunch of really great trails (FS system, user built, adopted, social, scenic, techie, etc) in Sedona. I told the FS years ago my goal was to make Sedona a great place to mountain bike and I wanted to work with them to make that happen.

    I have kept my end of the bargain. Now it's time for guys like Ranger 77 and ra to get all those maintainable downhill trails built to show us how their dream works. They have thrown all their chips on the crap table and the wheel is spinning. I hope their plan works before their hair turns gray like mine
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails So What is YOUR Plan to STOP Rogue Trail Building in Sedona???-2012-08-20_12-27-21_179%5B1%5D.jpg  


  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    I have kept my end of the bargain
    That's the problem, there was no bargain. You asked for forgiveness and not permission, and you didn't get it. Now your butt hurt that they wont let you play in the woods anymore and you keep trying to muck up the trail projects in forests you haven't been banned from, YET.

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    Quote Originally Posted by whoopwhoop View Post
    That's the problem, there was no bargain. You asked for forgiveness and not permission, and you didn't get it. Now your butt hurt that they wont let you play in the woods anymore and you keep trying to muck up the trail projects in forests you haven't been banned from, YET.
    Whoop:

    If you say so, it must be true. It's hard to argue with a person with your insight about these things. Have you ridden in Moab lately, I understand there are a bunch of new user built trails there that has stimulated a lot of interest in people who had gotten tired of going there?

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    P:

    I have kept my end of the bargain. Now it's time for guys like Ranger 77 and ra to get all those maintainable downhill trails built to show us how their dream works. They have thrown all their chips on the crap table and the wheel is spinning. I hope their plan works before their hair turns gray like mine
    Who throws all their chips on the craps table? It seems like ra and ranger take advantage of the max odds on the pass line and come bets, whereas TD bets on the hardways / big 6/8. Learn your terms.

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    This has gone beyond pathetic caricature.

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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    Whoop:
    Have you ridden in Moab lately, I understand there are a bunch of new user built trails there that has stimulated a lot of interest in people who had gotten tired of going there?
    GadsZooks!!! Moab too? First Sedona, and now Moab! The Mecca of mountain bikers far and wide? Say it ain't so, TD.

    Looks like we had ALL better come up with a plan. I mean...Cottonwood could be next!

    What a Country!!!

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    Whoop:

    If you say so, it must be true. It's hard to argue with a person with your insight about these things. Have you ridden in Moab lately, I understand there are a bunch of new user built trails there that has stimulated a lot of interest in people who had gotten tired of going there?
    I didn't say anyone is tired of Sedona, they're tired of listening to you talk to yourself. You=nutbar.

  42. #42
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    lol thanks for the chuckles after a long day at work and my daughter's both getting into trouble at school I needed it.


    BTW sixshooter is prime only 2 big trees down with primo temps thanks to the rains!
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    arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by tpvet73 View Post
    Who throws all their chips on the craps table? It seems like ra and ranger take advantage of the max odds on the pass line and come bets, whereas TD bets on the hardways / big 6/8. Learn your terms.
    tp:

    Your right I wasn't much of a gambler, I guess that should have been poker.

  44. #44
    Meatbomb
    Reputation: Phillbo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whoopwhoop View Post
    I didn't say anyone is tired of Sedona, they're tired of listening to you talk to yourself. You=nutbar.

    Amen brother! Sedona is probably a great place to ride but TD makes it so annoying that I'd never want to ride there .

    It use to be the crystal metaphysical freaks that kept me away. not any more.

  45. #45
    Elitest thrill junkie
    Reputation: Jayem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillbo View Post
    Amen brother! Sedona is probably a great place to ride but TD makes it so annoying that I'd never want to ride there .

    It use to be the crystal metaphysical freaks that kept me away. not any more.
    That's why you haven't ridden sedona? Seriously? Just get off the internet for a while then...for the love of god. There are two kinds of people, people who KNOW when TD is "taking them for a ride", and those that do not. You buy in hook line and sinker each time with posts (and attitudes) like this.

    Just go ride there and enjoy it. It's not that hard. Don't let E-friends and E-acquaintances run your life. You don't need any approval to ride there.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  46. #46
    workin' it Administrator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Don't let E-friends and E-acquaintances run your life.
    Words to live by.
    Try this: HTFU

  47. #47
    Meatbomb
    Reputation: Phillbo's Avatar
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    Deal... I'll ride the sedrama trails as soon as I can.

  48. #48
    No Stranger to danger....
    Reputation: Tone's's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    PR:

    You obviously aren't a very skilled adventurous rider, or your full of BS. Most all the TD haters ride the rogue (user built) trails in Sedona because they are the best trails for the advanced skilled riders.

    Recently the best local bike shop showed a highly skilled touron one of Sedona's best user built rides. The guy had a world class experience and had no clue where he was at, he just knew that was one hell of a ride.

    If you aren't full of BS you are definitely to be commended Have you ever inhaled? Do you even own a hoe?
    Traildoc, if you where to bring your dribbling to Australia you would walk into the bush n mysteriously disappear and never be seen again, let me know when your planing the holiday here i'll dig the hole under a new rogue DH trail in advance, cheers mate
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  49. #49
    SamuraiBunnyGuy
    Reputation: longhairmike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillbo View Post
    It use to be the crystal metaphysical freaks that kept me away. not any more.
    this is the 2000s,, it's crystal meth freaks now

  50. #50
    mtbr member
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    Originally posted by Tone's L'axman
    Traildoc, if you where to bring your dribbling to Australia you would walk into the bush n mysteriously disappear and never be seen again, let me know when your planing the holiday here i'll dig the hole under a new rogue DH trail in advance, cheers mate
    My. How uncivilized.

    Rest assured "mate." If you ever come to Sedona, Traildoc would be among the first to offer you a tour of some of the finest trails in America. And, knowing him, since you are from far away...he would probably also host a barbecue in your honor.

    TD can be a pain in the A$$ much of the time, no doubt about it. But get past the selfrighteousness, the arrogance, and the smug elitist attitude... and he's actually not a bad guy.

    So just chill out a little there mate. Take a couple of deep breaths... take your meds, and maybe go for a nice long ride. You'll feel a lot better for it.

    G' Day

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