Results 1 to 22 of 22
  1. #1
    banned
    Reputation: traildoc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    5,540

    SLICKROCK TEST MARKING in Sedona

    The Sedona Red Rock Ranger District is looking for help in keeping people from getting lost on the Highline saddle. We haven't been given any information if these people were equestrians, hikers, trail runners or mountain bikers. We have no idea where they stated their adventure to this remote area.

    My suggestion would be to use blue epoxy paint marks every 150 feet if they were mountain bikers. I like what they do in Moab. It seems to be very effective there.

    What do you guys and gals think?


    SLICKROCK TEST MARKING:
    Forest Service and several volunteers have been testing paint and “highway” tape to mark where Forest trails cross large areas of slickrock and where people tend to get lost. The markings are white, picture attached. If you see them, please do not remove them. If you have comments about the markings, pro or con, please contact Adrian with your comment at fcadrian@fs.fed.us Thanks for your help! We have had no less then 5 rescues at the Hiline saddle alone in the past year…so there is a need for some kind of marking. Ideas are welcome.

    Thanks everyone for staying on established trails, respecting the tread and helping with your public trails.
    Jennifer

    Jennifer M. Burns
    Recreation Staff Officer
    Red Rock Ranger District
    8375 SR 179 (P.O. 20429)
    Sedona, Arizona 86351 (86341)

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Eazy_E's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    1,463
    Is the line of sight 150 ft?

  3. #3
    banned
    Reputation: traildoc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    5,540
    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy_E View Post
    Is the line of sight 150 ft?
    I would say most of it is.

    So I want to really help the FS come up with a solution. Maybe if I did they would let me help them with other projects, that they have totally banned me from helping them on.

    So I called up Sandy at Trail Mix in Moab and asked her. Sandy does a lot of the painting of the NEW Slickroad Moab trails. She is an avid hiker. She said it depends who got lost and where they started from. She says local hikers HATE PAINT and ROCK CAIRNS.

    She said marking the trail with a short sign post using one of their Moab slickrock brackets might help. She also has thought about drilling an 8" deep 1/2" hole in the slickrock and driving a piece of rebar 18" long, then getting rocks and drilling a hole in the middle and securing the rocks with epoxy to be a permanent fixture.

    She said if you built a rock jail with the wire basket those would be destroyed fairly quickly on hiking trails.

    She said mountain bikers are easy, they go along with the paint and maps at intersections.


    TD

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    46
    Only five rescues in a whole year? Those sound like low numbers to me.

    Did everyone survive?

    What's the problem?

    It sounds like search and rescue is doing a great job and they have just enough to keep them busy. Leave the paint at home.

  5. #5
    banned
    Reputation: traildoc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    5,540
    Quote Originally Posted by singletracmind View Post
    Only five rescues in a whole year? Those sound like low numbers to me.

    Did everyone survive?

    What's the problem?

    It sounds like search and rescue is doing a great job and they have just enough to keep them busy. Leave the paint at home.
    That is five rescues in one football size area. As far as the problem I have no answer maybe someone else knows. I doubt anyone died because they were calling on their cell phones and must have been alive then. You can land a helicopter there easily, so if it was a real urgent call you could react faster than sending up a SAR person. I don't know if they ride bikes. If they wanted to call me I would ride up.

    I don't know if they would have sent up the IMBA mountian bike patrol people. The last time I called their leader he didn't return my call, so I don't know if they answer or return calls.

  6. #6
    zul
    zul is offline
    Will Guide for Beer
    Reputation: zul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    700
    I'm not a fan of the dots. I understand the idea but the forest service cannot prevent people from themselves. If a person is getting lost on Highline perhaps they should not be distance hiking? People need to do some research before you just 'give er a try'!!?? If they are not doing proper research, well? That person is in over their head.

    Let's not subtract from the experience of people who should be there for the sake of those who should not be there.

    Keep it natural.
    If lovin you is wrong, I don't wanna be right

  7. #7
    26 ain't dead
    Reputation: -Chainslap-'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    239
    Highline saddle? Or Hangover saddle? Regardless, what about lining the trail in rope lights. That would make for a sweet night time ride as well.

    Personally, I don't really care if the trail has dots, so long as the character stays the same and it doesn't become overrun by people. But I think that is an inevitable impossibility in Sedona. it is a pretty great hike as well.

  8. #8
    1 bike to ride them all
    Reputation: CANADIANBACON's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    161
    Duuuuude!

    If I understand you correctly the USFS would like us to come up with a way to STOP HUMANS FROM GETTING LOST?!

    You've got to be kidding me? I watch folks in cars with GPS units get lost all the time. Maybe an escalator from the bottom of Highline to the top and then line the route with red carpets and plush velvet ropes.

    If your question is: How can we be better hosts to visitors and be more friendly than I think the answer is a big map at the main trail head, knowledgeable people at the RRRD Visitor information center, better trail markings. Wait!... I know! We could use invisible pain and sell special glasses!!!

    Don't get me wrong. Sharing our trail system with visitors makes the experience more enjoyable. However, I think we have to be realistic. We are not going to change intellect or human nature with maps signs or markings. I think it would be cool to get some specific, measurable goals from the USFS and see if anyone has come up with a solution in another area before we spend any time on this. Why re-invent the wheel or create false expectations eh?

    CB.

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    93
    It doesn't suprise me how easy it is for some folks to get lost. I see it all the time working with a local SAR team. Route finding at the Highline saddle is a little annoying so I support some type of slickrock marking. If anything it will help wit the flow of the trail threw that section. Those of you who ride Highline on a regular basis and know the route well may disagree.

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation: tysonnemb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    887
    How about detailed maps with trail names at all trailheads and major intersections, and small signs with arrows and trail names at minor intersections. I am awful with directions and get lost in my house sometimes, and this is more than enough to keep me from getting lost on trails. For those who need more than that should probably stick to the tours or sidewalks. I think if the trails had fences and guides, there would still be the occasional rescue from the trails. Some people just don't get it. It would just be a shame to clutter the trails with stuff an ruin the natural beauty for the people who live there and regularly ride the trails just to appease the needs of a few tourists.

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation: rockman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    4,022
    I'm not a fan of dots either but they serve a purpose. And I like the style they're using with a pointed end (instead of a dot) so it sort of indicates a direction. And so, far where I've seen them (Slim Shady and Hangover) I like the spacing. In contrast, for those who have ridden Gooseberry the spacing is tight and it seems like you're riding from dot to dot. It's easy to miss opportunities to free-form the slickrock because your intently focused on the next dot.

    And also, on a technical trail like Hangover I wouldn't blindly follow the dots either. I'd still scout a steep line before riding it if you haven't ridden it before or if you're not following someone. You may not like the route.

    For the dot-haters there will always be lines that don't have dots. Pic lifted from pinkbike
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails SLICKROCK TEST MARKING in Sedona-chewyroller.jpg  


  12. #12
    banned
    Reputation: traildoc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    5,540
    Quote Originally Posted by jessh510 View Post
    It doesn't suprise me how easy it is for some folks to get lost. I see it all the time working with a local SAR team. Route finding at the Highline saddle is a little annoying so I support some type of slickrock marking. If anything it will help wit the flow of the trail threw that section. Those of you who ride Highline on a regular basis and know the route well may disagree.
    jess:

    I am curious is the report the SAR does on each rescue PUBLIC RECORD or will the SAR share the incident report with us of those five separate occurrences of people getting lost on Highline that Jennifer references.

    TD

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    93
    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    jess:

    I am curious is the report the SAR does on each rescue PUBLIC RECORD or will the SAR share the incident report with us of those five separate occurrences of people getting lost on Highline that Jennifer references.

    TD
    It should be public record. I work in Coconino Co. and Highline I believe is in Yavapai Co. You'd have to contact there public records department. If there was no media releases about the ones you speak of more than likely were resolved within a few short hours.

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    352
    Beware' don't leap be4 you leap.
    A nice young mtbr followed tghe dots over the Trans Cda Hiway in GC last wknd; broken collarbone at last report. Check out where the dots are taking you when they lead to a precipice; someone put the dots in what is, to me, the wrong spot....leads to injury 4 sure.
    Now I'll have to get some black/brown paint and cover the 'dots' and then just leave it; no dots. Let riders go and survey their first gulp n go; then they'll have only themselves to thank.
    Sorry if this is off the 'Sedona' topic TD; but inferences s/b drawn; ie dots s/b used to indicate a trail flow over barren ground; so riders/hikers don't get lost; NOT to lead you over a highly technical roll-over like TCH.
    TS

  15. #15
    banned
    Reputation: traildoc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    5,540
    Quote Originally Posted by TransitionSenior View Post
    Beware' don't leap be4 you leap.
    A nice young mtbr followed tghe dots over the Trans Cda Hiway in GC last wknd; broken collarbone at last report. Check out where the dots are taking you when they lead to a precipice; someone put the dots in what is, to me, the wrong spot....leads to injury 4 sure.
    Now I'll have to get some black/brown paint and cover the 'dots' and then just leave it; no dots. Let riders go and survey their first gulp n go; then they'll have only themselves to thank.
    Sorry if this is off the 'Sedona' topic TD; but inferences s/b drawn; ie dots s/b used to indicate a trail flow over barren ground; so riders/hikers don't get lost; NOT to lead you over a highly technical roll-over like TCH.
    TS
    TS:

    I only rode that drop because I wasn't going to let a 68 year old dude show me up. I didn't want to do it and when you did it I couldn't help but follow behind you. You made me look like a wimp going down Holbert. I don't think any of the TD haters can ride that trail as well as you do.

    TD

  16. #16
    bland
    Reputation: m77ranger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    1,278
    All of this snow reminded me of this vid of RA doing some sick snow sliding!

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation: rockman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    4,022
    Quote Originally Posted by m77ranger View Post
    All of this snow reminded me of this vid of RA doing some sick snow sliding!
    I believe you have just hyjacked at TD thread

  18. #18
    Meatbomb
    Reputation: Phillbo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    5,207
    We need more of that.

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    352
    TD; part of your Ambassadorial regimen must be to make other riders look good; cause you instill confidence in everyone you ride with.
    Every town needs an Ambassador like you; to promote mountain biking for 30% of the masses!
    18% of the time.
    TS

  20. #20
    bland
    Reputation: m77ranger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    1,278
    Quote Originally Posted by transitionsenior View Post
    td; part of your ambassadorial regimen must be to make other riders look good; cause you instill confidence in everyone you ride with.
    Every town needs an ambassador like you; to promote mountain biking for 30% of the masses!
    18% of the time.
    Ts
    5.4%!

  21. #21
    bland
    Reputation: m77ranger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    1,278
    I was going to put some dots on this but then I just painted a line.

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation: rockman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    4,022
    [QUOTE=m77ranger;9977323]I was going to put some dots on this but then I just painted a line.
    [QUOTE]

    Is this a mtn bike vortex? I can see the connectedness to this area moving through you and your spirit excitement flowing back out to the earth and universe.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •