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  1. #1
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    Sedona Trails Ranked ...

    I know that this topic has come up here:
    Progressive List of Trail Difficulty in Sedona
    But I just couldn't rank them by difficulty, progressively. Plus, my knowledge was limited last year as I hadn't really ridden enough in West Sedona.

    Then Trail Doc comes up with his A1 = Funnest Ride list. I'll admit, riding with Doc has turned me into a trail junky. With new found trail knowledge and re-charged motivation to ride killer new single track in Sedona, it's time to progress. To complete one of these loops, you'll need 32 trail names and connectors ... That left my head spinning. Hoping not to offend anyone, I've simplified the list of trail names for hopefull success.

    My only goal is to simplify using existing trail names. So, here are the A1 funnest rides in Sedona ranked according to Zul:

    1. Hangover
    2. Hogs
    3. Shades, H E, Shades
    4. Mascal, Anaconda
    5. Under the Radar, Pyramid
    6. Chuckwagon
    7. Shades, HT, Llama
    8. Templeton aka Cathedral Rock
    9. Ledge and Airy
    10. Jordan, Soldiers Pass, Tea Cup

    This list could be completed by hardcore xc riders in 2-3 days. For a good fit rider, it would take 4-5 days including miles of smiles.

    Note: Each of these trails has at least one 'crux' moment (a difficult spot). 'A Riders' will ride, 'B Riders' will walk and take photos of the A riders riding. Each 'crux' moment should lead to proper inspiration to return again and again.
    If lovin you is wrong, I don't wanna be right

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by zul
    I know that this topic has come up here:
    Progressive List of Trail Difficulty in Sedona
    But I just couldn't rank them by difficulty, progressively. Plus, my knowledge was limited last year as I hadn't really ridden enough in West Sedona.

    Then Trail Doc comes up with his A1 = Funnest Ride list. I'll admit, riding with Doc has turned me into a trail junky. With new found trail knowledge and re-charged motivation to ride killer new single track in Sedona, it's time to progress. To complete one of these loops, you'll need 32 trail names and connectors ... That left my head spinning. Hoping not to offend anyone, I've simplified the list of trail names for hopefull success.

    My only goal is to simplify using existing trail names. So, here are the A1 funnest rides in Sedona ranked according to Zul:

    1. Hangover
    2. Hogs
    3. Shades, H … E, Shades
    4. Mescal, Anaconda
    5. Under the Radar, Pyramid
    6. Chuckwagon
    7. Shades, HT, Llama
    8. Templeton aka Cathedral Rock
    9. Ledge and Airy
    10. Jordan, Soldiers Pass, Tea Cup

    This short list could be completed by hardcore xc riders in 2-3 days. For a good fit rider, it would take 4-5 days including miles of smiles.

    Note: Each of these trails has at least one 'crux' moment (a difficult spot). 'A Riders' will ride, 'B Riders' will walk and take photos of the A riders riding. Each 'crux' moment should lead to proper inspiration to return again and again.
    Zul:

    Nice list where does Damifino, Windsurfer, Sketch, Secret Slickrock, Killer Bee, Lavitra, Bogas, Brew Pub, Birdcage, Cenntennial, Christmas Wash, Grand Central, Lost and Found, Missing in Action, Rabbit Ears, Power House Plunge, Old Mans, Double Trouble, Roller Coaster, Stay High and Ant Hill fit into the mix? Seems like you might have some more riding to do.

    TD

  3. #3
    zul
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    First off, Damfino is too scary to make the A1 fun ride list. Same goes for Killer Bees and Lavitra. Those rides will make a fine A1+ list.

    Second, more riding to do. Yes. With any luck, class resumes March 1st. With so much homework to do, I can hardly keep up.

    And finally, I cleaned H ... E today including the tight right hander (crux).
    Brag, Bragging,
    It was a first ever for me and only one Canadian from Vancouver in tow as whitness.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by zul
    First off, Damfino is too scary to make the A1 fun ride list. Same goes for Killer Bees and Lavitra. Those rides will make a fine A1+ list.

    Second, more riding to do. Yes. With any luck, class resumes March 1st. With so much homework to do, I can hardly keep up.

    And finally, I cleaned H ... E today including the tight right hander (crux).
    Brag, Bragging,
    It was a first ever for me and only one Canadian from Vancouver in tow as whitness.

    Yahoo-Congratulations that's cool. As you get into your golden years you will use that section of trail to evalutate how your skill level is improving or declining.

    Curious if you cleaned Ledge'n'Airy?

    How about the steep Templeton climb out of the creek?

    How is Hangover holding up?

    TD

  5. #5
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    I just turned 37 last week. When do I become eligable for that Golden Age discount anyway?

    Ledge and Airy: No. Didn't clean it. I was riding second and got bottled back several times. If there were, say, $10 - $12 bucks at the end of the trail, it would likley happen next round. Those two boulders with the zig-zag between would be the toughest point.

    That climb out from Templeton: Another no. Doubting that I'll happen for me. I'm willing to admit that. Dude from Fruita get's the hats off award. I'm good until the roots.

    Man, I'm trying to bask in the glory and then I get the beat-down from the Bay. The Professor is riding hard.

    The report on Hangover is that it's all still there. I haven't ridden it since the rains. I may get it in tomorrow (Thu) early morning.
    If lovin you is wrong, I don't wanna be right

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by zul
    I just turned 37 last week. When do I become eligable for that Golden Age discount anyway?

    Ledge and Airy: No. Didn't clean it. I was riding second and got bottled back several times. If there were, say, $10 - $12 bucks at the end of the trail, it would likley happen next round. Those two boulders with the zig-zag between would be the toughest point.

    That climb out from Templeton: Another no. Doubting that I'll happen for me. I'm willing to admit that. Dude from Fruita get's the hats off award. I'm good until the roots.

    Man, I'm trying to bask in the glory and then I get the beat-down from the Bay. The Professor is riding hard.

    The report on Hangover is that it's all still there. I haven't ridden it since the rains. I may get it in tomorrow (Thu) early morning.

    ZUL, you have fallen into bad company. You know far too many unofficial trail names.

    Oh, you don't get the discount until your age starts with a 5.

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    My vote is in for Damifino to Killer Bees, come on Zul, it's not scary just fun. I know it's almost too short to qualify but Sick Boy is very progressive but for some reason hardly anyone will ride it? Whats up? It's really not that hard I swear. Sedona needs some more progressive freeride trails, the terrain is insane!

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    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona
    My vote is in for Damifino to Killer Bees, come on Zul, it's not scary just fun. I know it's almost too short to qualify but Sick Boy is very progressive but for some reason hardly anyone will ride it? Whats up? It's really not that hard I swear. Sedona needs some more progressive freeride trails, the terrain is insane!
    RA:

    I think the slickrock section of H.....E to the Notch has a huge potential for what you are describing. Someday soeone is going to put something really cool there.

    TD

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    Has anyone ridden Damfino, Killer bees, Lavitra, back to Damfino (as a loop) and then onto hangover? I know that there will be some hike a bike involved or call it world class uphill. But thinking of doing this rather than getting the toes wet getting across oak creek.
    There is a big difference between ripping and skidding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chalkpaw
    Has anyone ridden Damfino, Killer bees, Lavitra, back to Damfino (as a loop) and then onto hangover? I know that there will be some hike a bike involved or call it world class uphill. But thinking of doing this rather than getting the toes wet getting across oak creek.
    Here's a thread from the archives w/ Tdoc and his Whistler buddies doing just that ride:Whistler Riders Think Sedona Trails Are World Class

    I believe the crux is once you hit the Lavitra bypass trail on the left you cross the Killer Bee Waterfall and head to Brew Pub. From Brew Pub you bushwhack or maybe there is a connector now up to Damifino and then commence with the hike-a-bike back to HO.

    Funny how times and the status of the Ambassador have changed over the years on the AZ forum. Makes for a chuckle reading all the banter

  11. #11
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    How can I get a map of Sedona trails? I have the one I bought at the bike shop up there, but it doesn't have more than half of these trails on it. Thanks

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman
    Here's a thread from the archives w/ Tdoc and his Whistler buddies doing just that ride:Whistler Riders Think Sedona Trails Are World Class

    I believe the crux is once you hit the Lavitra bypass trail on the left you cross the Killer Bee Waterfall and head to Brew Pub. From Brew Pub you bushwhack or maybe there is a connector now up to Damifino and then commence with the hike-a-bike back to HO.

    Funny how times and the status of the Ambassador have changed over the years on the AZ forum. Makes for a chuckle reading all the banter

    Rocky:

    I just opened this thread while I am listening to a guy on the radio talking about Tiger going back to rehab after his speech conference. He is wondering if Tiger is learning how to have better sex at the rehab center or how to ignore beautiful naked women. I got a double chuckle out of his comments and reading your post.

    You are right about the bushwhack left off of Brew Pub to get to the Damifidon't trail back up to Damifino. CP will have to either ride Lavitra to the Lavitra Bypass or Killer Bee off of Damifido to get to Brew Pub. Brew Pub actually runs into Damifidon't before dropping down to nose to the creek, but if you hang an early left off Brew Pub you miss some climbing back up Damifidon't.

    Now the talk show host is talking about Jesus being gay and that he was no Tiger Woods. You got to love the Bay Area nighttime talk shows.

    It would be interesting to find out how Killer Bee held up after the last big rain. Someone was up there doing maintenance a week or so before the big rain and it will be interesting if their work held up.

    Thanks for the laugh,

    TD
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by daniyarm
    How can I get a map of Sedona trails? I have the one I bought at the bike shop up there, but it doesn't have more than half of these trails on it. Thanks
    OK your request is my command, but you probably won't get off your butt and use my maps to update your map. The black line trails are the best rides you won't find them on yor map, so ride those first.
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc
    OK your request is my command, but you probably won't get off your butt and use my maps to update your map. The black line trails are the best rides you won't find them on yor map, so ride those first.
    What software are you using? Soft tip sharpie?



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    No one made any mention of skid mark, sloppy biscuts, wash up, wall ride, bootylicous, sick rock....progressive freeride it is all there

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    I have only ridden Skid Mark and Sick Rock out of the ones you have mentioned and thats not really what I'm thinking of. I wouldn't call those progressive at all actually. Sedona often has a strange idea of "freeride", ball busting climbs, unridable sections and unsustainable long fall line brake grabbing steeps. The best trail builders in the world wouldn't think too much of em.
    Last edited by raisingarizona; 02-19-2010 at 09:48 AM.

  17. #17
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    Nor "My Brutha's Creaker", "Hidden Rash", "Puddle of Horse Diarrhea", "Salty Straps",
    "Meat Your Stem", "Run Hiker, Run!", "Busted Wookie", "GTFOOMW", "Happy Punch",
    "Dislocated Eyeball", "DUCK!", "Mad Beaver", "I'm not riding THAT!", "Well, do ya? Punk.",
    "Spoke Snapper", or "Puckered Sphinx".
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    Patrick, that trail "Puddle of Horse Diarrhea" is way too common up here in Prescott, especially around Granite Basin. We also don't have any "Mad Beaver" up here either, bet that type of trail is much more common in Scottsdale, right along with "Hungry Cougar"..................

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    TrailDoc, thank you very much for those. Now the map that I have doesn't look like the one you posted, it's just a regular trail map of Sedona with hikes and stuff. I found an image of the map that you posted, Frank Hassler map I guess, but I don't have a printer large enough to print something like that.
    Is that map available anywhere to buy?
    Thanks

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    Myself and chalkpaw did the above loop today. munds to cow pie to damifino to killer bees(if its the one with the skinnies). then went toward the creek on small crushed red rock with out losing too much elevation. from a junction we headed back up to damifino. no bush wack and little hike a bike. a good rider could probably make it all the way to hangover with just a few dabs. great loop!

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    Quote Originally Posted by daniyarm
    TrailDoc, thank you very much for those. Now the map that I have doesn't look like the one you posted, it's just a regular trail map of Sedona with hikes and stuff. I found an image of the map that you posted, Frank Hassler map I guess, but I don't have a printer large enough to print something like that.
    Is that map available anywhere to buy?
    Thanks
    dani dani:

    I don't want to be too brutal here, but since these maps are jpegs why not save the maps to your laptop and print them. You can take them with you and won't have to open a big map. If that can't work for you, I feel sorry for you.

    TD

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    Quote Originally Posted by camjam
    Myself and chalkpaw did the above loop today. munds to cow pie to damifino to killer bees(if its the one with the skinnies). then went toward the creek on small crushed red rock with out losing too much elevation. from a junction we headed back up to damifino. no bush wack and little hike a bike. a good rider could probably make it all the way to hangover with just a few dabs. great loop!
    CJ:

    Great description of the ride. How were the conditions on Killer Bee (the skinny trail)?

    The trail with the crushed rock is Brew Pub, there is an Indian Mescal Burn Pit next to the trail, so that is where the name came from. In the old days before Brew Pub, we would ride down the crack and under the waterfall, then down the Killer Bee Wash to the Casner trail.

    If you would have hung a left before the chunky crushed rock section you could have saved yourself about 400 yards of somewhat uphill riding.

    God to hear someone takes my advice, wish I could have joined you.
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    I forgot about that move! I don't think the bars I'm using today could fit down that chute, the section under the waterfall was so cool but the Brew Pub option is much better. I haven't ridden over there in a couple of years, it seems like every time I want too the creek is up.

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    TD,
    Thanks for the advice. The trails were in pretty good shape. A couple wash out spots, but nothing too bad. Killer bee was really cool, i like the skinny's. I cant believe i have never ridden that trail before. Hopefully next time I ride it, it will be with you Cakewalk and Zul.

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    Quote Originally Posted by camjam
    TD,
    Thanks for the advice. The trails were in pretty good shape. A couple wash out spots, but nothing too bad. Killer bee was really cool, i like the skinny's. I cant believe i have never ridden that trail before. Hopefully next time I ride it, it will be with you Cakewalk and Zul.
    CJ:

    The Killer Bee has an optional rollin on the first waterfall where the guy is walking his bike in one of the pictures. It is also pretty cool, but you miss riding the first 10' bridge across the wash and hucking off.

    Lavitra is on the other side of the Killer Bee Wash. It gives you an extra 1 1/2 miles of riding if you bypass Killer Bee an keep heading out Damifido towards Casner.

    Zul is pretty wooosy and would probably like Lavitra better than all those elevated skinnies on Killer Bee.

    TD

  26. #26
    zul
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc
    CJ:

    Zul is pretty wooosy and would probably like Lavitra better than all those elevated skinnies on Killer Bee.

    TD
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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by azjeff
    ZUL, you have fallen into bad company. You know far too many unofficial trail names.

    Oh, you don't get the discount until your age starts with a 5.
    Once you meet Doc, it's all downhill from there. You know how it goes.
    If lovin you is wrong, I don't wanna be right

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    With his new found fame he probably doesn't feel getting wet is necessary. Check out the new issue of Bike, he's famous! Congrats Chalkpaw!

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    Quote Originally Posted by zul
    Once you meet Doc, it's all downhill from there. You know how it goes.
    Not all. TD has this weird obsession with pedaling too-heavy bikes uphill.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chalkpaw View Post
    Has anyone ridden Damfino, Killer bees, Lavitra, back to Damfino (as a loop) and then onto hangover? I know that there will be some hike a bike involved or call it world class uphill. But thinking of doing this rather than getting the toes wet getting across oak creek.
    Sorry to dig up an old thread but yes I did this exact ride last week. Verdict.... amazing. The weather has been incredible in Sedona these past couple weeks, however, things are getting a bit dry so this weather they are calling for this weekend is well needed

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    Chalkpaw just about cleaned that slickrock nose climbing back up Damifino last week from killerb. I alas only watched as i coughed up parts of my lung trying to chase the rabbit.t

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    I know this thread is a bit old, but I am trying to build an online map of Sedona trails. The project started as a Utah only resource, but I want to do a little traveling. The initial map doesn't have all the trails, but I am just getting started. Of course, I want to add the best trails first, make sure the trails are legal for bikes to access, etc. Any opinions on what I should add next, or important trailheads? Thanks

    The trails are posted on Skidmap, this is what I have added so far:

    Mescal, Submarine Rock, Chapel, Soldier Pass, High on the Hog, Special Ed,Herkenham, Made in theShade,Templeton,Western Civilization,Bandit,HT Trail,Schnebly Hill,Dawa,New Frontier,Thunder Mountain,Table Top,Bell Rock,Girdner,Old Post,Broken Arrow,Baldwin,Chuck Wagon,Airport Loop,Gunslinger,Teacup, Huckaby,Aerie,Ridge,Under the Radar,Llama,Bell Park Loops,Little Horse,Chimney Rock,Hog Heaven,Carrol Canyon,Long Canyon,Deadmans,Highline,Hangover,High School, Mystic,Cathedral,Sunset Park,Slim Shady

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    Quote Originally Posted by unkosama View Post
    I know this thread is a bit old, but I am trying to build an online map of Sedona trails. The project started as a Utah only resource, but I want to do a little traveling. The initial map doesn't have all the trails, but I am just getting started. Of course, I want to add the best trails first, make sure the trails are legal for bikes to access, etc. Any opinions on what I should add next, or important trailheads? Thanks

    The trails are posted on Skidmap, this is what I have added so far:

    Mescal, Submarine Rock, Chapel, Soldier Pass, High on the Hog, Special Ed,Herkenham, Made in theShade,Templeton,Western Civilization,Bandit,HT Trail,Schnebly Hill,Dawa,New Frontier,Thunder Mountain,Table Top,Bell Rock,Girdner,Old Post,Broken Arrow,Baldwin,Chuck Wagon,Airport Loop,Gunslinger,Teacup, Huckaby,Aerie,Ridge,Under the Radar,Llama,Bell Park Loops,Little Horse,Chimney Rock,Hog Heaven,Carrol Canyon,Long Canyon,Deadmans,Highline,Hangover,High School, Mystic,Cathedral,Sunset Park,Slim Shady
    unko:

    I have a gpx. file of all those Sedona trails plus about 80 more, the project has taken hundreds of hours to complete. I am curious how you are coming up with your trail beta? What is your motivation for giving this Intel to the mountain biking community? Does skid mark allow individuals to download the gpx. track of each trail so they can use the beta on a GPS when phone reception is not good? Is there any fee to use the skidmark information? What is there business model to support this site?

    The only trails in Sedona that aren't legal to ride are in the wilderness. It's Last Frontier not New Frontier. Table Top doesn't connect to Ridge, but Windsurfer and Bogus do.

    TD

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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    unko:

    I have a gpx. file of all those Sedona trails plus about 80 more, the project has taken hundreds of hours to complete. I am curious how you are coming up with your trail beta? What is your motivation for giving this Intel to the mountain biking community? Does skid mark allow individuals to download the gpx. track of each trail so they can use the beta on a GPS when phone reception is not good? Is there any fee to use the skidmark information? What is there business model to support this site?

    The only trails in Sedona that aren't legal to ride are in the wilderness. It's Last Frontier not New Frontier. Table Top doesn't connect to Ridge, but Windsurfer and Bogus do.

    TD
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Observer View Post
    Come on TD, just come out and ask him: what's your wife look like?
    or what's her number so he can text her.
    Currently at Mayo Clinic being tested for a kidney transplant. Donors welcome.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cycle64 View Post
    or what's her number so he can text her.
    64:

    I have been getting numerous posts from the moderators that you aren't happy with me, so I just wanted you to know whatever you are doing is working perfectly. Thanks for keeping Sedona in the lime light.

    I just got through taking two shuttles out for the Sedona Singletrack Celebration and I will be showing up for the ride from Bike & Bean at 3:00 so if you and CO show up I look forward to riding with you. It would be cool if gc could stop by OTE and pick up a Rocky Mountain or Niner demo bike for this afternoon's ride, I would be happy to shuttle him over to the Bean if he wanted to ride.

    Keep up the could work, I always appreciate your thoughtful posts.

    TD
    Last edited by traildoc; 03-23-2012 at 02:05 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    64:

    I have been getting numerous posts from the moderators that you aren't happy with me, so I just wanted you to know whatever you are doing is working perfectly. Thanks for keeping Sedona in the lime light.
    I've only reported 2 posts of yours Traildoc. One where you called people vulgar names! That thread was deleted. And where you called out someones family. So if you're getting multiple comments from the mods claiming I'm not happy with your actions. Seems a little exaggerated.

    Nothing wrong with keeping people aware of the riding conditions in Sedona. It's you and your online personality that seems to rub people the wrong way.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cycle64 View Post
    That thread was awesome.
    Fixed it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by m77ranger View Post
    Fixed it.
    LOL.

    I just might have to come up and ride some legal trails one of these days.
    Currently at Mayo Clinic being tested for a kidney transplant. Donors welcome.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cycle64 View Post
    LOL.

    I just might have to come up and ride some legal trails one of these days.
    Conditions are prime right now and there are some pretty good trails if you can navigate the maze.

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    Quote Originally Posted by m77ranger View Post
    Conditions are prime right now and there are some pretty good trails if you can navigate the maze.
    I have a few Burger King coupons left. So I figured I'd hire a tour guide.
    Currently at Mayo Clinic being tested for a kidney transplant. Donors welcome.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cycle64 View Post
    LOL.

    I just might have to come up and ride some legal trails one of these days.
    Cycle 64,

    Give me a holler and I will join ya, I just got the bleed kit to do my brakes and should have at least my HT 29er going. If you plan later I should have my FS 29er up and running by the 31st. Also picked up some new pedals that I'm anxious to try out as well.

    TD,

    I no longer wish to ride or associate myself with you, I thought I have made that very clear to all. I will be going to the SMBC FS meeting on the 29th to get the facts about the FS's official position on the un-incoporated user built trails and will be riding only FS system trails till I personally get word either way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cycle64 View Post
    I've only reported 2 posts of yours Traildoc. One where you called people vulgar names! That thread was deleted. And where you called out someones family. So if you're getting multiple comments from the mods claiming I'm not happy with your actions. Seems a little exaggerated.

    Nothing wrong with keeping people aware of the riding conditions in Sedona. It's you and your online personality that seems to rub people the wrong way.
    C64

    I had a talk with my wife about the "thread" and she is PISSED!! When she gets home tonight she will read the entire thread (after which she will probably be furious) and I'm not really sure how she will react. Those Italian women can be......well lets just say its never a good idea to piss them off, EVER! I haven't reported the posts to the moderators yet, but TD has neg reped me and called me lame, so I figure some reporting will be in order at least.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gotcurves View Post
    C64

    I had a talk with my wife about the "thread" and she is PISSED!! When she gets home tonight she will read the entire thread (after which she will probably be furious) and I'm not really sure how she will react. Those Italian women can be......well lets just say its never a good idea to piss them off, EVER! I haven't reported the posts to the moderators yet, but TD has neg reped me and called me lame, so I figure some reporting will be in order at least.
    gc:

    We have a bunch of friends over for the Single Track Celebration. If you and your wife want to come over this evening to get to meet everyone feel free to come over. I just dropped off the shuttle group at Over the Edge. They did the downhill run from the Airport Vista to Red Rock Crossing. Lars demoed a Rocky Mountain downhill bike and said it was sweet. If you can get it together we are leaving from my house in about ten minutes.

    TD

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by gotcurves View Post
    C64

    I had a talk with my wife about the "thread" and she is PISSED!! When she gets home tonight she will read the entire thread (after which she will probably be furious) and I'm not really sure how she will react. Those Italian women can be......well lets just say its never a good idea to piss them off, EVER! I haven't reported the posts to the moderators yet, but TD has neg reped me and called me lame, so I figure some reporting will be in order at least.
    Your and TD writing or righting styles are very similar. Guess the moderators know for sure if the posts are coming from the same IP. Whatever the issue is on that street. I sure hope it gets resolved one way or another. So the peace and harmony of the crystals can flow again from the Red Rocks.
    Currently at Mayo Clinic being tested for a kidney transplant. Donors welcome.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cycle64 View Post
    Your and TD writing or righting styles are very similar. Guess the moderators know for sure if the posts are coming from the same IP. Whatever the issue is on that street. I sure hope it gets resolved one way or another. So the peace and harmony of the crystals can flow again from the Red Rocks.
    I'm 99% convined it's the same person. But as we all know, it's the 1-percenters who make the world go round. Just ask our next great American President: Daddy Romney.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  47. #47
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    I don't really have a business model for the site, I just do it for fun right now. I originally started the project because I wanted a Garmin map on my Edge 705 that worked just like a car navigation system, but instead of paved roads, I wanted MTB trails displayed by difficulty. So with the permission of utahmountainbiking.com and with some friends that ride areas I was missing, I built my database. For the roads and B-Roads (dirt/fire roads) I used public government census databases.

    Unfortunately taking raw traces from a GPS provides a very poor track. Too many GPS points on straight lines, not enough on curves, satellite drift, etc. So I rely mostly on satellite photos and cities often provide their own fly over images as well. Trailheads are typically listed on city sites etc. The other problem with GPX files alone is that they often overlap, show where you stopped to pee, rode around the parking lot, its all there. So all the tracks I put into my database are hand connected similar to the way garmin might keep a database of roads so that routing works.

    As for public trails versus local secret trails, we have the same problem in Utah. They are in my database, but I don't extract them for the google map, though they are all on my Garmin so I can navigate them myself. I would like to figure out a secret handshake or something so that those in the know, can view them. I am open to suggestions.

    And yes, currently you can use the site to construct your own route using any combination of the tracks and subsequently download the GPX file or upload it right to a Garmin connected via usb. Give it a try on a track you know and compare it with one of your gpx files, I would be interested to know how they compare.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Observer View Post
    I'm 99% convined it's the same person. But as we all know, it's the 1-percenters who make the world go round. Just ask our next great American President: Daddy Romney.
    Well if our 2 moderators are watching they will know for sure. If these 2 are the same. The moderators are allowing Traildoc, Taildoc, Gotcurves, and any other alias he is using to disrupt the AZ forum. I'm starting to agree with you ST. This site is less and less about riding bikes these days.

    PS: Again thanks for supporting me in the TDC.
    Currently at Mayo Clinic being tested for a kidney transplant. Donors welcome.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cycle64 View Post

    PS: Again thanks for supporting me in the TDC.
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but there are certain qualifiers regarding my donation, correct. Don't you have to ride in chicken suit or something?
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Observer View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but there are certain qualifiers regarding my donation, correct. Don't you have to ride in chicken suit or something?
    As long as the cleaners have it ready in time.
    Currently at Mayo Clinic being tested for a kidney transplant. Donors welcome.

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    I guess you guys are free to believe what you want. I assure you we are not the same person. Personally my grammar and spelling are much better than TD's. As for his un called for banter towards me, what goes around comes around except you won't see it coming around on a public forum.

    BTW this is my last post to MTBR.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by gotcurves View Post
    btw this is my last post to mtbr as gotcurves.
    fifw
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by unkosama View Post
    I don't really have a business model for the site, I just do it for fun right now. I originally started the project because I wanted a Garmin map on my Edge 705 that worked just like a car navigation system, but instead of paved roads, I wanted MTB trails displayed by difficulty. So with the permission of utahmountainbiking.com and with some friends that ride areas I was missing, I built my database. For the roads and B-Roads (dirt/fire roads) I used public government census databases.

    Unfortunately taking raw traces from a GPS provides a very poor track. Too many GPS points on straight lines, not enough on curves, satellite drift, etc. So I rely mostly on satellite photos and cities often provide their own fly over images as well. Trailheads are typically listed on city sites etc. The other problem with GPX files alone is that they often overlap, show where you stopped to pee, rode around the parking lot, its all there. So all the tracks I put into my database are hand connected similar to the way garmin might keep a database of roads so that routing works.

    As for public trails versus local secret trails, we have the same problem in Utah. They are in my database, but I don't extract them for the google map, though they are all on my Garmin so I can navigate them myself. I would like to figure out a secret handshake or something so that those in the know, can view them. I am open to suggestions.

    And yes, currently you can use the site to construct your own route using any combination of the tracks and subsequently download the GPX file or upload it right to a Garmin connected via usb. Give it a try on a track you know and compare it with one of your gpx files, I would be interested to know how they compare.
    unko:

    Last Frontier is a pretty new trail where did you get that track?

    TD

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cycle64 View Post
    Well if our 2 moderators are watching they will know for sure. If these 2 are the same. The moderators are allowing Traildoc, Taildoc, Gotcurves, and any other alias he is using to disrupt the AZ forum. I'm starting to agree with you ST. This site is less and less about riding bikes these days.

    PS: Again thanks for supporting me in the TDC.
    64:

    Thanks to you, the moderators have been watching every post I make, so you are certainly keeping them buzy.

    Anyway my friends from Boise and from Moab headed over to Bike & Bean with me in the Sprinter for another Sedona Singletrack Celebration group ride. There must have been about 25 people on the ride enjoying the great trail conditions. We rode up to Highline and ended up heading up the Eazy's and down Slim Shady and Made and the Shade back to Bike & Bean. As usual it was a fantastic ride and I heard great praises for our ride leader Chewy.

    Hope to see CO, 64 and gc out on tomorrow's ride which starts at 10:00 AM from venue site across from New Frontiers.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    64:

    Thanks to you, the moderators have been watching every post I make, so you are certainly keeping them buzy.

    Anyway my friends from Boise and from Moab headed over to Bike & Bean with me in the Sprinter for another Sedona Singletrack Celebration group ride. There must have been about 25 people on the ride enjoying the great trail conditions. We rode up to Highline and ended up heading up the Eazy's and down Slim Shady and Made and the Shade back to Bike & Bean. As usual it was a fantastic ride and I heard great praises for our ride leader Chewy.

    Hope to see CO, 64 and gc out on tomorrow's ride which starts at 10:00 AM from venue site across from New Frontiers.
    If the moderators are watching you. It's because of your posts and that alone.

    Sorry but I'll be riding in the Phoenix Tour De Cure on Sat.
    Currently at Mayo Clinic being tested for a kidney transplant. Donors welcome.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post

    Hope to see CO, 64 and gc out on tomorrow's ride which starts at 10:00 AM from venue site across from New Frontiers.
    I'm definitely not coming...
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by unkosama View Post
    I don't really have a business model for the site, I just do it for fun right now. I originally started the project because I wanted a Garmin map on my Edge 705 that worked just like a car navigation system, but instead of paved roads, I wanted MTB trails displayed by difficulty. So with the permission of utahmountainbiking.com and with some friends that ride areas I was missing, I built my database. For the roads and B-Roads (dirt/fire roads) I used public government census databases.

    Unfortunately taking raw traces from a GPS provides a very poor track. Too many GPS points on straight lines, not enough on curves, satellite drift, etc. So I rely mostly on satellite photos and cities often provide their own fly over images as well. Trailheads are typically listed on city sites etc. The other problem with GPX files alone is that they often overlap, show where you stopped to pee, rode around the parking lot, its all there. So all the tracks I put into my database are hand connected similar to the way garmin might keep a database of roads so that routing works.

    As for public trails versus local secret trails, we have the same problem in Utah. They are in my database, but I don't extract them for the google map, though they are all on my Garmin so I can navigate them myself. I would like to figure out a secret handshake or something so that those in the know, can view them. I am open to suggestions.

    And yes, currently you can use the site to construct your own route using any combination of the tracks and subsequently download the GPX file or upload it right to a Garmin connected via usb. Give it a try on a track you know and compare it with one of your gpx files, I would be interested to know how they compare.
    onko:

    I just came up with a GREAT IDEA to help you help yourself. Recently I found out from the Red Rock Ranger that gpx tracks of all Sedona system trails are available under the Freedom of Information Act. So all you have to do is call Adrian at the Sedona Red Rock Ranger District and tell her that you heard through traildoc that all system trail are available at no charge, free, etc. If she balks just let her know that Bear Tooth Maps was given all the new tracks by the Forest Service for the new Soldier Pass Area that Bear Tooth just did their new 7th Edition Map of.

    Hope that works for you if not let me know. I might see Adrian tomorrow and I will let her know you might give her a call. She is in charge of trail, rivers and wilderness.

    TD

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cycle64 View Post
    Well if our 2 moderators are watching they will know for sure. If these 2 are the same. The moderators are allowing Traildoc, Taildoc, Gotcurves, and any other alias he is using to disrupt the AZ forum.
    I told you, they are three different people! VERY DIFFERENT people. Come up and ride and I can introduce you to each of them.

    Brenda

  59. #59
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    I don't have any trail called "Last Frontier", I probably named something wrong. If you tell me what I incorrectly called the trail on my map, I can look at the database changelog and see what comments I made when I checked in the track. I only published the Sedona Trails a few days ago to see if there would be some interest in the project. I generate a full MTB road map for the Garmin 800 and wanted to add Sedona for a friend who was making a trip there. I am not trying to step on anyone's toes. I don't know you well enough to know how serious you are.

    The concern up here with illegal trails is that the forest service has threatened to police and barrier trails if we post them. I don't care much if I see a Fred on the trail, or some boy scouts riding in basketball shorts on a Roadmaster. I don't own the land, and would rather see people out riding that sitting at home growing blubber.

    If you genuinely want to help me build a online trail map, you can find the site contact email on the project about page.

    Cheers.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by unkosama View Post
    I don't have any trail called "Last Frontier", I probably named something wrong. If you tell me what I incorrectly called the trail on my map, I can look at the database changelog and see what comments I made when I checked in the track. I only published the Sedona Trails a few days ago to see if there would be some interest in the project. I generate a full MTB road map for the Garmin 800 and wanted to add Sedona for a friend who was making a trip there. I am not trying to step on anyone's toes. I don't know you well enough to know how serious you are.

    The concern up here with illegal trails is that the forest service has threatened to police and barrier trails if we post them. I don't care much if I see a Fred on the trail, or some boy scouts riding in basketball shorts on a Roadmaster. I don't own the land, and would rather see people out riding that sitting at home growing blubber.

    If you genuinely want to help me build a online trail map, you can find the site contact email on the project about page.

    Cheers.
    unko:

    If you want to get the Sedona trail info of all LEGAL forest service trails contact Adrian.
    The Forest Service spent US taxpayers tax money on developing the gpx tracks for their maps of Sedona (see attached picture), so they are available for ree under the Freedom of Information Act.

    You stated that you had a trail named New Frontier, there is no such trail here at this time and there never has been one previously named New Frontier. There is a trail called Last Frontier and it is on your map as New Frontier. Where did you get the track for that trail and Western Civilization? Both trails are fairly new and I am curious where you got the tracks.

    I have just saved you a ton of time, and I am sure you will have a great map for your friend when you are done. We have an MTBR viewer by the name of Justin, he is also making a map of Sedona and maybe he would also be willing to share his files. He works for the Sedona Forest Service and has been paid by the FS to do GPSing of Sedona trails so technically some or all of the tracks he is using for his mapping program were paid by US taxpayers and should be available under the Freedom of Information Act, I think.


    Others may chime in and have a different POV.

    TD
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Sedona Trails Ranked ...-secret-003.jpg  

    Last edited by traildoc; 03-23-2012 at 09:42 PM.

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    Thanks for the info, this helps. Seriously, email me if you want to know more about the site. I do everything possible to get tracks from valid sources. Most race and event promoters are more than happy to send me tracks. I also make efficient use of social media, so when I say "friend", you can guess what that means. And most friends are happy to provide me with tracks from events and races they did. If I recall, the main part of that track was from a "friend" that did the Big Friggin Loop event. Also, I just looked at my area photos, and the tracks are pretty clear.

    I'd post a photo of my wife, but I am not sure I have have enough posts on the forum yet. I've only been a member for 6 years.

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