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  1. #1
    mtbr member
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    Save Papago Park

    Hey all,

    We attended public workshop #2 for the Papago Park Master Plan. It was pretty impressive in that these folks are really calling out for public input and really want to create the park WE want. They want it to stand out as a "premier park" comparing it to such destinations as Balboa Park in San Diego, Zion, and Golden Gate Park. (Sorry, no mention of Whistler Bike Park!). After a discussion of the process, we gathered around stations for discussion and input in 4 categories; natural resources, education/interpretation, connectivity, and amenities. We were able to discuss and draw and write our ideas on large maps. The proposals varied from the strict preservationists, i.e. removing non-native plants (palms, etc) and restoring the desert, to allowing further development of the already shrinking space. Many of the "concepts" called for a large central visitors center with parking. In the 3rd and final meeting in August, a preliminary plan will be discussed and the final plan will be presented to the 4 cities in September.

    Now is the time to voice our opinions. Please go to www.discoverpapagopark.com and fill out the survey. This only takes a minute and may preserve Papago as a place for us to ride. Please do it before July 1. Some points that we would suggest;

    1. preserve as much natural space as possible. Incorporate the visitor center into the Tempe Historical Society bldg or place it on the periphery of the park.

    2. preserve as many of the existing trails as possible for multi use by bikers, hikers and equestrians. As mountain bikers, we hope for "singletrack" trails, no more than 2 feet wide with technical features intact.

    3. preserve mountain bike skills area south of Marigold and just west of the water treatment plant. Area mountain bikers are willing to maintain and improve this area.

    Thanks everyone.
    I know we don't all ride papago, but Phoenix is special because of parks like this. Lets not let this one slip away.
    Last edited by supermoto; 06-17-2009 at 06:39 AM.

  2. #2
    Meatbomb
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    Was there any mention of the seedy activities that occur in the park and controlling them ?

  3. #3
    Shred...it's the new drug
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    I too attended the evening meeting and was suprised to see my picture in the first slide of the presentation from the last meeting. It was great to see quite a few people out there to support the park, but I was hoping to see more mtbr's out there. I met FishVW and pal and SPIDER and family. We were in agreement that papago needs a defined trail system sustaiably built by IMBA standards with different skill levels to limit the rogue trails all over the park. I believe it there were more purpose built/technical trails, more people would use them and quit ripping up the natural landscape. Also we suggested a skills park in the pit area near the water treatment plant. This was very well recieved by some of the tables that I spoke at and people who had no idea about mountain bikes thought this would be a great place to teach kids of all ages how to ride and respect the trails. Quite a few like the idea of a pump track. So....

    The way we can get this implemented is to have as many mtbr's to fill out the survey and state that they are looking for sustainable trails built by IMBA standards for all skill levels and a mtb skills area to include a pump track. Here's a few stats from last night.

    18,000 hits on discovpapagopark.com
    287 preliminary meeting attendees
    107 questionaires recieved

    So as mtbr's this is my call to you to fill out the surveys and over whelm the numbers with mtbr's requiring improved trails and a skills park. If we can get 25 surveys from mtbr's we would be a 25% party and would have to be heard. Think if we got 50 or 60??? They would have to cater to us as the majority

    Go to www.discoverpapagopark.com
    Surveys need to be completed and sent in by July 1st. That gives us lazy mtbr's 2 weeks to get this done!!! The next meeting will be August 19th and 20th to finalize the plan. We need to get trail improvements and a skills park in the plan! HELP SAVE PAPPY!!!!

  4. #4
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    Which surveys? There appear to be several.

  5. #5
    Pivotal figure
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    Desert Sunset Calls/Upward, Pain, Perseverance/Welcome Solitude

  6. #6
    PMP,TAN,LAUNDRY
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    Done!
    Bender to AZDog: I'm not the best person to give advice on not riding!

  7. #7
    Shred...it's the new drug
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    The resident/visitor/user survey is the one...They have an online form so no mailing nothing in!

    Thanks pappy fans! Lets get some momentum going Post up here after you have completed your survey so we can keep count of how many we get.

  8. #8
    NardoSS
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    Done.

    Major complaints: horses tearing up trails and leaving messes on the trail. I think that they are relatively unsafe seeing as how they could be possibly ridden/controlled by a renter or just an over all idiot. Ever seen anyone kicked by a horse?

    Dog poo bags. Why? Just kick it off of the trail instead of cleaning it and leaving a bag like some dog shi!t fairy is going to get it for you.

    Self appointed trail maintenance and repair.

  9. #9
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    I did 2 of them. One for me and one for my wife.

  10. #10
    Kathleen in AZ
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    Wow.. a survey where you actually have to think and add full sentences! These reasons might be why so few have bothered to fill out the form.

    Thanks to all who have attended the meetings and are a voice for the mtb community.

  11. #11
    Shred...it's the new drug
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    D.G. tell me you filled one out with your expertise and your fine technical linguistics???

  12. #12
    Kathleen in AZ
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    Quote Originally Posted by latedropbob
    D.G. tell me you filled one out with your expertise and your fine technical linguistics???
    haha... Sure did. I used my engineer speak with attempts at social undertones

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by DurtGurl
    haha... Sure did. I used my engineer speak with attempts at social undertones
    Oh god.
    -- Evil Patrick

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    The trail...shall set you free.

  14. #14
    Shred...it's the new drug
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    Quote Originally Posted by DurtGurl
    haha... Sure did. I used my engineer speak with attempts at social undertones
    D.G. do good. Evil did you fill one out? or are you continuing to be evil???

  15. #15
    mtbr member
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    Quote Originally Posted by latedropbob
    D.G. do good. Evil did you fill one out? or are you continuing to be evil???
    I looked at the survey, but seeing as I've never been to Papago, I couldn't honestly answer
    any of the questions.

    By not lying about useage and suggestions for something I know nothing about, I guess
    I'm not being evil.
    -- Evil Patrick

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    The trail...shall set you free.

  16. #16
    Shred...it's the new drug
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Patrick
    I looked at the survey, but seeing as I've never been to Papago, I couldn't honestly answer
    any of the questions.

    By not lying about useage and suggestions for something I know nothing about, I guess
    I'm not being evil.
    well said, but if there were some sweet trails to be built or a killer skills park, do you think that you might make a trip or stop by when your up here? Any survey helps, even if you are from out of town, as the planning committee is trying to draw visitors from out of town and I'm sure they would like some input from non-locals as to what would draw them to the park.

  17. #17
    UBER Addict
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    Done did fill mine out, yes I did, yes I did!

    Although I have to admit I have not yet been to papago since I started MT biking, I live pretty close and keep meaning to. I have done quite a bit of geocaching there though. Hopefully my survey wont stick out too much and they wont realize I know nothing about biking in the park and whatnot! I just kind of reiterated what you guys are saying here,

  18. #18
    Meatbomb
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    Done... I've only ridden the park a couple times but do look forward to riding it more.

  19. #19
    parenting for gnarness
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    done. Yeah that was a good survey. My message was basically about cleanup, closing spider trails, and occasional patrols\ranger presence for security.

    On a related note, I work around the corner and would love a fun All-Mtn tour. I've wandered around on my bike, but I know there are lots of good spots I'm missing. Anyone?

  20. #20
    Shred...it's the new drug
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    Cholla, there's certainaly not any uber gnar or extended tech but there are some sections that are fun and I know a route that can create a 12-15 mile ride that encompasses IMO the best of papago. I'd be happy to show you around. I'm like you, just gotta schedule the kid into my riding schedule. I might have a chance to ride this eve if interested.

  21. #21
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    My wife and I suggested dedicated biking trails/loops that move in one direction (similar to McDowell Mts). Various trails would have various skill levels... You get the idea. Also, expand upon the current bike skills area near N College Ave, and make it into something more elaborate to attract kids of all ages/skills. (possible pump track) So far, I count about 15 people who have submitted surveys on behalf of mountainbikers (including peeps that showed up for the meeting). It's a good start! Let's keep it going!
    It's only skin, it'll grow back!!

    Save the drama for your mama!!!

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  22. #22
    Meatbomb
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    Is Rolling Hills a part of Papago park or just the Papago course ?

  23. #23
    parenting for gnarness
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    Quote Originally Posted by latedropbob
    Cholla, there's certainaly not any uber gnar or extended tech but there are some sections that are fun and I know a route that can create a 12-15 mile ride that encompasses IMO the best of papago. I'd be happy to show you around. I'm like you, just gotta schedule the kid into my riding schedule. I might have a chance to ride this eve if interested.
    its not Somo but new stuff is always fun. I enjoy just the different vibe there of it being busy and urban. I work at McDowell\Scottsdale - Tues, Thurs, Fri are better for me. I'll start a new thread next week so we don't hijack this one, hopefully we can sync up.

  24. #24
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    BTW... Those of you that have only ridden at Paps once or twice, I think that it is REAL important that they hear from you. They need to know what it will take to get ur butts out there using the park!
    It's only skin, it'll grow back!!

    Save the drama for your mama!!!

    Porkchop Sandwiches!

  25. #25
    Shred...it's the new drug
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    Phillbo, rolling hills is part of the papago park. There are rumors of making that the new karsten. Make sure we let them know that we don't want that to happen...

    SPIDERS makes a great point...if you want good trails, let them know!!!

  26. #26
    Chunky Monkey
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    Huh

    Quote Originally Posted by DurtGurl
    Wow.. a survey where you actually have to think and add full sentences! These reasons might be why so few have bothered to fill out the form.

    Thanks to all who have attended the meetings and are a voice for the mtb community.
    Done

    I might have obtained some of the above........

    Thx.
    John

  27. #27
    mtbr member
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    done

  28. #28
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    I had filled mine out prior to the meeting and Philbo I did include they need to get rid of some of the dirty from the parkin lots and ramadas.

    Oh yeah and put in the part about the skills park. When I lived over there it was a fun place to get out and do a quick ride after work
    Got Daytons on the Motha Ship - Cube

  29. #29
    Shred...it's the new drug
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    Good work boys and girls!!! Lets keep it up! Tell your friends and neighbors, lets keep this snowball growing!

  30. #30
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    A little video

    Thanks everyone. For those unfamiliar, heres a little video I made a while back that features a lot of papago stuff. Its a little goofy 'cause its right after we got our Mach 5's and we were stoked on 'em. (still are)

  31. #31
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    I must say, ur little video was pretty creative! Nice perspective. Thx for sharing!
    It's only skin, it'll grow back!!

    Save the drama for your mama!!!

    Porkchop Sandwiches!

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by supermoto
    Thanks everyone. For those unfamiliar, heres a little video I made a while back that features a lot of papago stuff. Its a little goofy 'cause its right after we got our Mach 5's and we were stoked on 'em. (still are)
    Love this video !

  33. #33
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    How about trails that are: hiking only, horses only and Mtn biking only. I know you can't ever make everyone happy but this way we might be able to deal for some sweet singletrack.

  34. #34
    Team Tortuga
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    Survey Completed! Hope it helps. Would love to see the area preserved and transformed into a more usable and enjoyable experience for the biking community as well as the other users of the park.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by tls36
    How about trails that are: hiking only, horses only and Mtn biking only. I know you can't ever make everyone happy but this way we might be able to deal for some sweet singletrack.
    Right on!
    It's only skin, it'll grow back!!

    Save the drama for your mama!!!

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  36. #36
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    Great meeting you and family Spiders. With all due respect, I would suggest that we avoid RESTRICTING trail access, in any way and promote multi-use. Can you imagine if SoMo said, ok bikers can have Desert Classic and National will be reserved for hikers? It would be a sad day. Lets keep sharing ALL the trails and use them in either direction we want, my .02. Great work all on the surveys! THANKS!

  37. #37
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    I understand and appreciate what you are saying Supermoto. I just personally feel that Papago is a good candidate for some dedicated bike trails (similar to McDowell Mtns). IMO. I feel that SoMo is not the best example to compare in this case due to it's measureable diversity. Trails at Papago would attract mainly CC bikers (no real downhill biking areas over there). If there were dedicated bike trails at Papago, it would be justafiable to add some optional obstacles for bikes on these trail (ie. teter-totter, planks or logs to ride across, etc.. U get the idea). This would make Papago stand out as a destination for any mountain bikers visiting from around the world. (not just another CC trail) Hope U understand my point of view.
    It's only skin, it'll grow back!!

    Save the drama for your mama!!!

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  38. #38
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    ...It was a pleasure to meet U as well Supermoto!!!
    It's only skin, it'll grow back!!

    Save the drama for your mama!!!

    Porkchop Sandwiches!

  39. #39
    Shred...it's the new drug
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    Bump, Bump!!!

    Only one more week to get all those surveys in!!! We need everyone's help. Freeriders, DHr's, XCr's, DJrs' Newb's and Old School! Local pappy riders and out of towners! Lets let our mtbr prescence be known...

    I think the best option for everyone to have fun and happy trails at pappy is to get some multi user, multi skill level trails built and a skills area installed. Here is a great example of the bikers of San Fransisco joining together to get something fun and important built!!!
    http://sfurbanriders.org/wordpress/p...e-skills-area/

    Here is the link to the papago site for the survey again!
    www.discoverpapagopark.com

    Cheers to Pappy!!!

  40. #40
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    here is a copy of the e-mail I sent to all Tempe council members, and Gov Brewer

    "My name is Fish, and I am contacting in regards to the Papago Park development project that is taking place. I think the park is a great park and I believe the new developments will make it even better. I just wanted to share an idea that I think would really benefit the park and its users.

    There is an area that is used by bicyclist by the water treatment plant. It is a small "jump" pit that bikers of all ages and sizes use. I think by implementing a "skill park" in this area would attract many more bikers, as well as onlookers. It would also help keep the bikers and hikers relations smooth.

    Here is a link to what Seattle did, and I think it really shows whats possible.

    http://evergreenmtb.org/wiki/index.p...:I-5_Colonnade

    I hope you will consider this idea, and share it with those who also could influence the building of such a sight.




    Thank you for your time, and all your service"


    I think the more we let EVERYONE know about this idea, the more likely that it could happen

  41. #41
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    @Fish
    That is most excellent.
    "Doing the right thing" is like water. It's good for all living things,and flows without thinking about where it's going.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by fish-vw
    Here is a link to what Seattle did, and I think it really shows whats possible.

    http://evergreenmtb.org/wiki/index.p...:I-5_Colonnade
    Some more links:
    Boulder CO- http://www.bma-mtb.org/valmontbikepark/
    Australia - http://www.mikebaird.com.au/interact...ain_bikes.html
    "Doing the right thing" is like water. It's good for all living things,and flows without thinking about where it's going.

  43. #43
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    Heres another opportunity for Tempe residents to voice their opinions;

    http://www.tempe.gov/calendar/displa...3.456115722656

    Also, there is still time to fill out the survey at
    http://www.discoverpapagopark.com/

  44. #44
    Shred...it's the new drug
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    Only one more day left to fill out those surveys! If you ride at pappy all the time, have only rode there once or twice or have never rode there, now is your opportunity to make Papago Park a premier mountain bike site in AZ!!! It only takes 5 minutes to fill out the survey, just think 5 minutes for a lifetime of ripping!!! Sounds like a small investment to me with great rewards Help us to improve Papago!!! www.discoverpapagopark.com

  45. #45
    pedaller
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    Done! (whew)

    but I thought it had to be done BEFORE July 1st?

    Either way, it's done.
    "Nobody ever told me not to try" - Curious George Soundtrack by Jack Johnson

  46. #46
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    Good job!

    Kudos to everyone that took the time to fill out the survey!!!
    It's only skin, it'll grow back!!

    Save the drama for your mama!!!

    Porkchop Sandwiches!

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