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  1. #1
    slower than you
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    Saturation Point

    I've lived in FLG a long time and have always loved riding in the springtime when all the arroyos and creeks are flowing. Today was a special treat, something I've never experienced before: Schultz and the surrounding drainages all flowing midsummer like they do, and in some cases even more than they do, in spring.

    My kid and I shredded our saturated, thoroughly soaked trails together on the tandem this morning. Amazing day!

    Saturation Point-1294322_10151648321808123_126155788_o.jpg

    Saturation Point-1274936_10151648347173123_798474841_o.jpg

    Saturation Point-1273893_10151648386898123_1703895054_o.jpg

    Stoked that tomorrow's another day off for riding.
    "May your trails be winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view." - Ed Abbey
    http://rockychrysler.com/

  2. #2
    Ahhh the pain....
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    Awesome...so freAking awesome. Gettin me some early t
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  3. #3
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    Yes, this is the most saturated the San Francisco Peaks and greater Grand Canyon area we may witness in our lives. In so many dry years prior I always envisioned trails washing away in the wet. I thought that plants would grow bigger than houses. I would think that many, many mushroom species would show their fruiting bodies, including ones who stain blue. But it has been surprising. My haunts have held their shape and no magic mushrooms have materialized. Trails have done the predictable things, and it has been a blessing to get out to ride and walk with dogs.
    There is a big difference between ripping and skidding.

  4. #4
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    Honestly, this is some crap up here. Might as well live in Seattle. The AZT from 164B east to Schultz was a complete mud pit. It was really bad in between Rocky Moto and Moto. I saw a couple of 100ft plus sections of just soup mud.

    No thanks, Jeff.

  5. #5
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    Take advantage of it while you can, if for no other reason that the trail conditions are unique.

    I have been coming home covered in mud and with a shit eating grin on my face.

    The trails and forests in Flag are breath taking right now.... Come early summer next year you will be b****ing about how dry it is, and praying for some cloud cover.

    Mountain bikers are a strange lot to me sometimes, myself included.

    I don't have any interest in "magic" mushrooms, but if you harvest for the table then this is an amazing year for many species. I have enough dried, marinated, pickled or otherwise stored for at least a year and a half.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chalkpaw View Post
    Yes, this is the most saturated the San Francisco Peaks and greater Grand Canyon area we may witness in our lives. In so many dry years prior I always envisioned trails washing away in the wet. I thought that plants would grow bigger than houses. I would think that many, many mushroom species would show their fruiting bodies, including ones who stain blue. But it has been surprising. My haunts have held their shape and no magic mushrooms have materialized. Trails have done the predictable things, and it has been a blessing to get out to ride and walk with dogs.
    Look for horse poop, I have seen tons of those funky shrooms all over the horse poop.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy_E View Post
    Honestly, this is some crap up here. Might as well live in Seattle. The AZT from 164B east to Schultz was a complete mud pit. It was really bad in between Rocky Moto and Moto. I saw a couple of 100ft plus sections of just soup mud.

    No thanks, Jeff.
    It's so much better on fire.
    - Steve Garro, Coconino Cycles.
    steve garro el jefe/el solo. coconino cycles www.coconinocycles.com www.coconinocycles.blogspot.com

  8. #8
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    It is amazing! I did a trail run up Schultz Creek Trail yesterday and was impressed with the amount of water flowing down the creek. So much better than springtime "moon dust" and the threat of wildfire.

    RC -- I thought that was you and your daughter that passed me while I was running down the trail.

    -db-

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by coconinocycles View Post
    It's so much better on fire.
    - Steve Garro, Coconino Cycles.
    That's a pretty strong jump in logic. So, if I say the trails are better off without four inches of water mud on top and a few six inch ruts under that, than obviously, I'd rather it all be on fire. Okay...

    I'll take that hero dirt over moon dust any day of the week and twice on Sunday, but the trails I rode yesterday are useless right now. Can't roll, takes too much effort to fight through it, nobody out here runs good mud tires, the trails are going to dry out with huge ruts and they won't roll good until they get smoothed out with a lot of traffic. These are just poor trail conditions. I, personally, will be completely fine with a few days of no rain.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy_E View Post
    That's a pretty strong jump in logic. So, if I say the trails are better off without four inches of water mud on top and a few six inch ruts under that, than obviously, I'd rather it all be on fire. Okay...

    I'll take that hero dirt over moon dust any day of the week and twice on Sunday, but the trails I rode yesterday are useless right now. Can't roll, takes too much effort to fight through it, nobody out here runs good mud tires, the trails are going to dry out with huge ruts and they won't roll good until they get smoothed out with a lot of traffic. These are just poor trail conditions. I, personally, will be completely fine with a few days of no rain.
    Ahh......princess and the pea/1st world problems.......
    Having lived my whole life in AZ and been a Hotshot I can say a true Arizonan never *****es about the rain.
    The trails always get trashed, and they come back.
    At least in my 29yrs of trail riding here so far.
    YRMV
    Paz, Steve Garro, Coconino Cycles
    steve garro el jefe/el solo. coconino cycles www.coconinocycles.com www.coconinocycles.blogspot.com

  11. #11
    Huffy Rider
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy_E View Post
    Honestly, this is some crap up here.
    No thanks, Jeff.
    Maybe you should ride the steep trails???? I bet they do not have this mud problem.

  12. #12
    SamuraiBunnyGuy
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    **searches for animated popcorn gif

  13. #13
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    I remember when mountain bikers prided themselves on being tough.
    Now people ***** how hard it is on a thread whose intro is pictures of a little girl enjoying what they consider to be too tough.
    - Steve Garro, Coconino Cycles.
    steve garro el jefe/el solo. coconino cycles www.coconinocycles.com www.coconinocycles.blogspot.com

  14. #14
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    Ha Ha, good stuff!

    I too was on a tandem with my 11 year old daughter yesterday and we had a hoot plowing through the puddles on AZ trail between Wild and Wooly and Shultz Tank. And Schultz was just a riot.

    I do, however avoid the very top of AZ trail as you get close to Schultz Pass as that does have bad mud and poor drainage. It's better to cut down Rusty Pipe.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    Ha Ha, good stuff!

    I too was on a tandem with my 11 year old daughter yesterday...
    Wow! Two dads with daughters on tandems on Schultz on the same day. What are the odds of that?

    -db-

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post

    I do, however avoid the very top of AZ trail as you get close to Schultz Pass as that does have bad mud and poor drainage...
    That's been my experience as well when we had all the rain in July. The flat areas atop the pass had lots of standing water and muddy trails. Anywhere with a slope was fine.

    -db-

  17. #17
    slower than you
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy_E View Post
    These are just poor trail conditions. I, personally, will be completely fine with a few days of no rain.
    No. They are unique and thrilling trail conditions such as we won't likely see again soon. And, as has been so eloquently observed above, come June we're all gonna be reminiscing pretty darn hard about all these flowing arroyos and muddy spots as we wait on the edge of our seat for fire-season to pass into monsoons without tragedy.

    It's bad form to live in AZ and ever speak ill of the rain. Suck it up. Hold it in. And revel in the sensation. It's awesome!

    (@dbflg: my kid said to me, moments after we passed you, "that guy said your name." sorry we didn't stop. it occurred to me after we'd blown thru the parking lot "Oh! That was DB and his wife." Hope to get a chance to chat you up about clouds and rain next time we pass.)
    "May your trails be winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view." - Ed Abbey
    http://rockychrysler.com/

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbflg View Post
    Wow! Two dads with daughters on tandems on Schultz on the same day. What are the odds of that?

    -db-
    In Flag pretty good, but one may be Gibson - his Mrs could be mistaken for a child!
    - Steve Garro, Coconino Cycles
    steve garro el jefe/el solo. coconino cycles www.coconinocycles.com www.coconinocycles.blogspot.com

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by coconinocycles View Post
    Ahh......princess and the pea/1st world problems.......
    Having lived my whole life in AZ and been a Hotshot I can say a true Arizonan never *****es about the rain.
    The trails always get trashed, and they come back.
    At least in my 29yrs of trail riding here so far.
    YRMV
    Paz, Steve Garro, Coconino Cycles
    +1
    I have lived in Arizona since 1980 and rain is always a good thing. As long as it does not come in big bunches that cause flooding, rain is good. Even in the forests we live in a desert and rain is life. No rain and everything dies including us people.
    Joe
    '12 Santa Cruz Highball 29", '13 Santa Cruz Solo 27.5",Vassago Verhauen SS 29" XC, AM, blah blah blah.. I just ride.

  20. #20
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    If the trail/road is not well traveled and the primary surface material is clay, then saturated conditions could be a nightmare for a mountain bike. All that clay will stick to your tires, frame, and brakes.... Other than that, wet conditions are much better than dust... But if you have clay that is not well compressed, don't go there...

  21. #21
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    I'm hoping that Little Bear will recover in some way after the summer rains are over. It was completely destroyed. Huge canyons where a trail used to be. We enjoyed some extreme hike a bike. Major trail rebuilding to be done up there.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tretta View Post
    I'm hoping that Little Bear will recover in some way after the summer rains are over. It was completely destroyed. Huge canyons where a trail used to be. We enjoyed some extreme hike a bike. Major trail rebuilding to be done up there.
    Is it really that bad? That's a bummer, I was really enjoying that trail now that I have a xc bike and with all of the openness through the burn the line of sight was silly and you could go so fast.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tretta View Post
    I'm hoping that Little Bear will recover in some way after the summer rains are over. It was completely destroyed. Huge canyons where a trail used to be. We enjoyed some extreme hike a bike. Major trail rebuilding to be done up there.
    You just hate the rain. Please leave the state.

  24. #24
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    There was a sign at the top of Little Wear warning us, but we figured 3.5 miles of some hike-a-bike we could handle. We had no idea how bad it really was. It had some patches along the way, but some sections were completely obliterated by boulders and trees. The trail would disappear into an abyss, and you could see the other half of it on the other side of an extreme canyon. We had 5 people, so did an assembly-line-pass to get the bikes down and up the canyon. Most of our scrapes and broozes were from hiking the steep holes. HUGE trees blocking other sections of it. Then we hit Schultz Pass loop and were in heaven, weeweeweeeeeing all the way home!

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy_E View Post
    You just hate the rain. Please leave the state.

    Um, did you quote the wrong person??? Love the rain and love riding in it.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona View Post
    Is it really that bad? That's a bummer, I was really enjoying that trail now that I have a xc bike and with all of the openness through the burn the line of sight was silly and you could go so fast.
    The pictures on the FS posted didn't inspire me to want to poach the closure order and see for myself. Little Bear Trail flood damage | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
    I believe Sean Murphy's recommendation was that much of L. Elden just get rerouted instead of trying it revive it again.

    I have heard the Night Ranger has been working on L. Bear but seems like it will require considerable man-power; his rock clearing talents not withstanding.

  27. #27
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    What happens on Little Bear is not a really a result of rain so much as the aftermath of the fire. The fire cleared the land and when the typical rains came it tore up the ground. This why Little Bear and L. Elden are worst hit. They are in erosion path from the fire. The areas the fire did not hit fared much better and really suffered just normal erosion.

    Looks like the forecasts is rain all this week. I can't say I feel bad about it as water is life here and it is far better to get a few weeks of rain to revive the plant life than to have it stay dry.
    Joe
    '12 Santa Cruz Highball 29", '13 Santa Cruz Solo 27.5",Vassago Verhauen SS 29" XC, AM, blah blah blah.. I just ride.

  28. #28
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    Yep, and it is definitely growing like crazy up there. I rode the trail back in April and it was all barren and moon-looking. This time it was lush and green and you had to really search for the trail. The north side of the mountain was green instead of grey, which was wonderful. Hobbit forest was quite lush as well.

  29. #29
    SamuraiBunnyGuy
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    i am all for lots of rain in flagstaff,, without it we would have nothing to water our landscaping in the valley.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tretta View Post
    Yep, and it is definitely growing like crazy up there. I rode the trail back in April and it was all barren and moon-looking. This time it was lush and green and you had to really search for the trail. The north side of the mountain was green instead of grey, which was wonderful. Hobbit forest was quite lush as well.
    I noticed that the cave creek complex fire area produced some amazing wildflowers in years immediately following...

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoePAz View Post
    What happens on Little Bear is not a really a result of rain so much as the aftermath of the fire. The fire cleared the land and when the typical rains came it tore up the ground. This why Little Bear and L. Elden are worst hit. They are in erosion path from the fire. The areas the fire did not hit fared much better and really suffered just normal erosion.

    Looks like the forecasts is rain all this week. I can't say I feel bad about it as water is life here and it is far better to get a few weeks of rain to revive the plant life than to have it stay dry.
    The slopes had mostly re-vegetated and stabilized in the 3 years following the Schultz burn. Aspens saplings were 1 to 2 m high. Unfortunately, the area received the brunt of a 100 year rain event (according to the NWS). Even areas just south of the burn area experienced flooding that had never occurred previously in Flagstaff's history.

    As for muddy trails, it's not really an issue on Elden and Dry Lake Hills. The slopes are steep sided and there's not much of a catchment. In contrast, the SF Peaks are one big sponge and when the slope gradient changes the water comes out. Typically in the form of springs. There's a spring halfway down Moto which is why that trail is a mess. AZ trail crosses multiple drainages so it's got some poor drainage issues in places. All in all, a remarkable time for Flagstaff. The springs had mostly dried up in the last 50 years, some of it probably related to groundwater pumping in the Inner Basin. Flagstaff was settled in the first place because of the springs and it's nice to see them back, albeit for a brief period.

  32. #32
    How much further ???
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    OP: Really cool pics. Living in Arizona its always a treat to ride when water is flowing. Its rare but occationally the main wash through Hawes runs and it is really a nice treat, especially at night. The sound of rushing water inthe distance and river crossings with towering Saguaro looking down on you is just too cool.

    As far as rain in AZ I find it most interesting. There never seems to be good rain even though you consistantly hear we are in a drought. The rain is either too hard, too slow, comes in sideways, doesnt hit the ground. It never rains in the right places. Rains all over but not Sky Harbor; doesnt count. Rains everywhere but not my backyard; doesnt count. Fills up the SRP lakes; doesnt count. Its too wet, too dry, not a good soaker, runs off, causes flooding, isnt enough, doesnt last long enough, lasts too long...... Its exhausting.
    Last edited by Douger-1; 09-03-2013 at 03:34 PM.
    “Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did." Mark Twain

  33. #33
    SamuraiBunnyGuy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Douger-1 View Post
    OP: Really cool pics. Living Arizona its always a treat to ride when water is flowing. Its rare but occationally the main wash through Hawes runs and it is really a nice treat, especially at night. The sound of rushing water inthe distance and river crossings with towering Saguaro looking down on you is just too cool.

    As far as rain in AZ I find it most interesting. There never seems to be good rain even though you consistantly hear we are in a drought. The rain is either too hard, too slow, comes in sideways, doesnt hit the ground. It never rains in the right places. Rains all over but not Sky Harbor; doesnt count. Rains everywhere but not my backyard; doesnt count. Fills up the SRP lakes; doesnt count. Its too wet, too dry, not a good soaker, runs off, causes flooding, isnt enough, doesnt last long enough, lasts too long...... Its exhausting.
    i was beginning to think NE mesa was going to finish this monsoon season unscathed, but we took a took a direct hit friday.
    going to try and get out to Hawes later this afternoon, but im sure the it was gushing making lots of new washouts and sandpits
    I got seriously rutted and sedimented. nothing like having to backwash your pool filter 6 times in an hour.


  34. #34
    How much further ???
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    Free waterfall. People pay good money for those.

    I went out for a 33 mile ride Saturday morning and interestingly enough only half of Hawes got any rain. Las Sendas got hammered but the further north you went you could tell the less rain it received all the way to the point that Twisted barely looked like it got anything and Wild Horse got nothing.
    “Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did." Mark Twain

  35. #35
    shred my gnar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy_E View Post
    Honestly, this is some crap up here. Might as well live in Seattle. The AZT from 164B east to Schultz was a complete mud pit. It was really bad in between Rocky Moto and Moto. I saw a couple of 100ft plus sections of just soup mud.

    No thanks, Jeff.
    you chose poorly.

    on a somewhat related note (to the op)...

    a couple weeks ago i managed to have one of those perfect days. as usual, got out later than planned which put me square in the middle of the day. pedaling-up schultz/secret/newham there were big gnarly cells all around but nothing more than a very light drizzle all the way up... all the crossings were running on schultz.

    saw a bear cub at the top of twisted sister... crossings all the way down ts. hit moto and went for easter island which has a full flowing creek from top to bottom and then crossed back over to schultz with all the crossings. what an amazing summer up here!

    easter island from that day:

    Saturation Point-easter1.jpg

    Saturation Point-easter2.jpg

    Saturation Point-easter3.jpg

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by longhairmike View Post
    i am all for lots of rain in flagstaff,, without it we would have nothing to water our landscaping in the valley.
    HAHA! Or fill up all of those pools!

  37. #37
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    I rode up BCT Sunday and loved the river crossing. I haven't had to clean mud off of me and the bike in so long. It was thigh deep. Cool change of pace.


    “Think of bicycles as rideable art that can just about save the world.”
-Grant Petersen

  38. #38
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    I just want to say, things are drying out in Flag. Slowly, but surely. Most of the bad parts are highly damp, but not so bad they fling mud. Gonna need a lot of tire and boot action on some trails to smooth it out. Secret from the AZT to the Secret TH is a disaster zone. There's a dry line on the edge, but the middle of the trail looks absolutely pathetic.

  39. #39
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    Wonder if Flag ferns and grasses will still be green for the Aspens turning color. Thanks would be very nice.

    Dean

  40. #40
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    Saturation Point

    Quote Originally Posted by dstepper View Post
    Wonder if Flag ferns and grasses will still be green for the Aspens turning color. Thanks would be very nice.

    Dean
    Ferns are already turning brown.

  41. #41
    shred my gnar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy_E View Post
    I just want to say, things are drying out in Flag. Slowly, but surely. Most of the bad parts are highly damp, but not so bad they fling mud. Gonna need a lot of tire and boot action on some trails to smooth it out. Secret from the AZT to the Secret TH is a disaster zone. There's a dry line on the edge, but the middle of the trail looks absolutely pathetic.
    youre still doing it wrong.

  42. #42
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    I rode AZT from Aspen Corner to Schultz yesterday, it was as if someone put velcro on my tires. Absolute perfection. I saw 2 deer, a few squirrels and no haters.

  43. #43
    slower than you
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    (pardon my shameless self-promotion)

    A little blogging (and a little video) about this summer and the rain in FLG:
    RockyChrysler.com: Thus the woods are filled with this sound
    "May your trails be winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view." - Ed Abbey
    http://rockychrysler.com/

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by coconinocycles View Post
    I remember when mountain bikers prided themselves on being tough.
    Now people ***** how hard it is on a thread whose intro is pictures of a little girl enjoying what they consider to be too tough.
    - Steve Garro, Coconino Cycles.
    I blame 29" wheels and too much suspension.....
    Salvation Outdoor
    "Take it Outside...Again!!!"

  45. #45
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    Really makes me look forward to my girl being big enough to get on a bike with me!! I've gotta start shopping for tandems now!!!
    Salvation Outdoor
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