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  1. #1
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    Sanitizing Local Trails,

    I dont get on the AZ thread very often but I thought this was the place to raise my concerns regarding the sanitizining of local trails. I have started ridding the trails over at N. mountain (100, 1-A, 8) in 1993 and they were tricky and in some places I had to walk. I ride the lost dog, quartz, ring tail loop ever few weeks. Each time I ride these these trails I find another section that has been cleared of a boulder or a step up. I understand that some trails need to be worked to drain water or need general repair but this is not the case with what I am seeing. I think we need to talk and meet with the people who are working on these trails to give our input as mountain bikers or soon we will be riding trials that look like the Pinnacle Peak hiking trail.

  2. #2
    sprocket
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    cyclists are not the only users of trails.

  3. #3
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    Hikers are the other main users of the trails. Do hikers want a smooth trials? We are taking out natural obstacles that are part of what AZ trials are suppose to look like.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt Head
    Hikers are the other main users of the trails. Do hikers want a smooth trials?
    It would seem so.
    I think I'm not as good as I thought.

  5. #5
    sprocket
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt Head
    Hikers are the other main users of the trails. Do hikers want a smooth trials? We are taking out natural obstacles that are part of what AZ trials are suppose to look like.
    the more use, the easier it becomes. It is a natural progression.

  6. #6
    JohnniO
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    the trail elfs remove the rocks the rains bring them back. rinse , repeat.

  7. #7
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    It takes the fun out and causes erosion. Those rocks actually keep the trails from becoming gullies. Perhaps they are under the mistaken impression that bikes want a smooth course -- If we wanted the sidewalk, we'd ride the sidewalk. I don't think the hikers appreciate this either -- its like removing the nature.

    Not sure who to complain too. It says on http://www.scottsdaleaz.gov/preserve.asp For questions on Preserve management, please call Claire Miller at (480) 312-2504 or e-mail clmiller@ScottsdaleAZ.gov .

  8. #8
    Meatbomb
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    From what I've read on this board, I doubt Claire will give a rats ass.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeoffroad
    It takes the fun out and causes erosion. Those rocks actually keep the trails from becoming gullies. Perhaps they are under the mistaken impression that bikes want a smooth course -- If we wanted the sidewalk, we'd ride the sidewalk. I don't think the hikers appreciate this either -- its like removing the nature.

    Not sure who to complain too. It says on http://www.scottsdaleaz.gov/preserve.asp For questions on Preserve management, please call Claire Miller at (480) 312-2504 or e-mail clmiller@ScottsdaleAZ.gov .
    Rather than complain, volunteer. Join the trail stewards and get active. Land managers and park supervisors are more likely to listen to those that donate their time. Plus you get to know these people which makes it more difficult for them to blow you off.

  10. #10
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    Reply from Claire Miller

    I emailed Claire, below is her reply. Looks like it is someone unauthorized. I've noticed it seems to happen a little at a time on Quartz trail, but I've never seen the culprit --I don't get out there early and that's when it is probably taking place
    -----------------------------------------

    Subject: RE: trail sanitizing

    Hi Mike –

    I can tell you that the city staff nor the stewards have completed any official trail work recently on the Quartz Trail, so if you are seeing evidence of rocks being removed from the trail, it is not being done by our direction whatsoever. In the past we have experienced problems with unknown people removing rocks from the trail - and we were never able to identify who it was. I think they may have thought they were making the trail better/safer – but they end up making it worse. The rocks are no longer there to keep the tread intact, and they leave a large hole in the trail where they removed the rock – ugh!

    Now, that being said, we did have some professional trail contractor work done on two trails this past spring: Sunrise and Bell Pass. We did receive some comments from folks, both positive and negative, regarding the work done on the trails. Many were similar to your concerns – that we were making the trails “too nice.” I assure you that the work completed was for maintenance and trail sustainability purposes, not to please any certain user group. Our goal is to maintain the trail. No matter how we accomplish that, not every user group will be happy; our focus is to protect the natural resource to the best of our ability.

    Should you happen to see the “unknown culprit” doing unauthorized trailwork, please let us know, so we can follow up. With the summer heat, we have been limiting our volunteer projects in general – and trying to stay off the trails (until the weather cools a bit) – unless some monsoon activity warrants emergency repairs – which will always be supervised by Preserve staff, working alongside the volunteers.

    I hope this explanation is helpful. I appreciate your taking the time to drop me a note!

    Claire Miller
    McDowell Sonoran Preserve Manager
    clmiller@ScottsdaleAZ.gov
    480-312-2504

  11. #11
    parenting for gnarness
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    See this for similar thread, and courteous response from Scottsdale staff

    Bottom of Bell = pump track


    Regarding the stewards, I looked into it and decided i did not want to be part of it. Too many hours of training that you have to pay for, then you are expected to go out with a steward mentor for a bunch of runs. The burden of entry to having a voice seems too high for me, and imo the "club" is too oriented towards people with too much time to spend on protecting every leaf. I've found the tone of most stewards i've met since moving to N. Scottsdale to be anti-bike, maybe not overtly, but definitely the bias is there. This should argue for me to get involved, and perhaps in time I will change my mind, but I just didn't feel like being the token in the room. People who like to tell other people how to behave can be the nastiest on their own kind - i dont need some hiker-nazi who's never mtb'd getting all on me cause "a steward should know better!"

  12. #12
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    I ride the Estrella's regularly and unfortunately the same fate has fallen on my trails. Used to love the challenge of the impossible tech section or the stupid hard washes to climb out of... Just cause I couldn't ever beat it, didn't mean it was mine to clear out. Sounds like more of the weenie rider problem than the "man" pullin another fast one on us.

  13. #13
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    Become involved and be there for trail days. If you don't then you can't complain unless it's someone doing the work without permission. Often improvements are to create a sustainable trail tread and most often the sections that people refer to as being challenging are quite the opposite but challenge can be created to be sustainable, it just takes lots of building experience to know how to achieve both.

  14. #14
    SamuraiBunnyGuy
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    maybe there's a black market street value for these missing rocks,,, has anyone checked ebay or craigslist?

  15. #15
    Meatbomb
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    I can't believe that with as little rain as we get that trail erosion is that big of an issue.

  16. #16
    mtbr member
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    Quote Originally Posted by longhairmike
    maybe there's a black market street value for these missing rocks,,, has anyone checked ebay or craigslist?
    Well, you say that. But I'm right off the PMP, and a lot of the houses here have these large, granite rocks in their front yards. The story is, when the development was built back in the 70s, one of the guys who lived here used to ride out to the Preserve with his Jeep and drag these giant rocks and sell to his neighbors.
    Rarely adds anything productive to threads

  17. #17
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    Erosion

    You must not ride there. That is exactly the reason we get erosion. So little rain the ground gets loose and dusty, then when we get rain, everything washes away leaving behind nothing but a bunch of loose rocks. The big downpours can really wreck havoc

  18. #18
    mtbr member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillbo
    I can't believe that with as little rain as we get that trail erosion is that big of an issue.
    But when it does rain, it rains big time.

    I rode T100 west Monday, and could not belive the huge ruts that were cause by the recent rains. I had originally thought somebody tried to drive up the side of the mountain. Then I realized they were cause by rain.
    Rarely adds anything productive to threads

  19. #19
    dirt visionary
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    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona
    Become involved and be there for trail days. If you don't then you can't complain unless it's someone doing the work without permission. Often improvements are to create a sustainable trail tread and most often the sections that people refer to as being challenging are quite the opposite but challenge can be created to be sustainable, it just takes lots of building experience to know how to achieve both.
    It was pretty clear in the above post with the email from parks saying there was no trailwork performed by them or anyone they authorized.
    Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of
    arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body.

  20. #20
    Shift less, Pedal more.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzTreky
    I ride the Estrella's regularly and unfortunately the same fate has fallen on my trails. Used to love the challenge of the impossible tech section or the stupid hard washes to climb out of... Just cause I couldn't ever beat it, didn't mean it was mine to clear out. Sounds like more of the weenie rider problem than the "man" pullin another fast one on us.
    Agreed!! Weenie riders need to improve their skill and not make the trails easier.

    I've seen sanitization grow on the MBAA race courses just in the last year or two. The people who sanitized a portion of Estrella actually race on the Giant team, and could clear the section almost everytime.

    Their reason for sanitizing that section is still unanswered. I was told by someone on the Giant team. She didn't even know why there sanitized that part of the trail.

    To me they just needed their trail work hours, and since Estrella didn't need any work, they made their own. Shame.

    Sanitizing should have the same penalty as illegal trail building. I'll be looking for you guys on the trails.
    I'd rather be hated for what I am, than loved for what I'm not......Dolemite.

  21. #21
    SamuraiBunnyGuy
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    what if we like,, you know,, glue the rocks to the trails?

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