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  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by longhairmike View Post
    let me get this right.

    -dangerous assault weapons were not spelled out in the constitution, but they should automatically fall under the 2nd amendment....
    Actually, at the time the constitution was written almost all weapons were privately owned including the canons. The revolutionary war, which does pre-date the constitution, was fought almost entirely with private weapons. When the second amendment was written it was made as short and to the point for a reason...

    Quote Originally Posted by longhairmike View Post
    -dangerous cars were not around spelled out in the constitution, but they are okay to regulate?...
    Being able to drive on public roads is considered a privilege...not an inalienable right but I see your point. If you get in too many accidents or speed too much you lose your license. Kind of like being convicted of a felony and you lose some of your constitutional rights (Like the right to bear arms)... although, as you probably heard, most criminals do not obey the law.

    Quote Originally Posted by longhairmike View Post
    any rights only extend to the point where they begin to infringe on others' rights.
    when your neighbor is stockpiling high powered weapons and you have kids,, your right to not have to **** yourself worrying about it everyday is being infringed.
    ...
    How does this infringe on any of your rights? Did he threaten you? That obviously would be against the law and I could understand your reasoning... otherwise you are just stereotyping. According to Wikipedia, practically all gun crimes are caused by those in the 14-24 age bracket being dominantly black followed by Hispanic males and in metropolitan areas... if you want to stereotype that should help you narrow it down... and depending on where you live, that may or may not help you sleep better at night. Either way, 14-24 year olds can't afford to hoard guns...and definitely not the ammo! Gun crimes are also at one of the lowest levels in recent history but I guess you wouldn't know that if you constantly watch the for-profit news stations..
    Killing it with close inspection.

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by longhairmike View Post
    let me get this right.

    -dangerous assault weapons were not spelled out in the constitution, but they should automatically fall under the 2nd amendment.
    -dangerous cars were not around spelled out in the constitution, but they are okay to regulate?

    any rights only extend to the point where they begin to infringe on others' rights.
    when your neighbor is stockpiling high powered weapons and you have kids,, your right to not have to **** yourself worrying about it everyday is being infringed.

    and please dont pinch the god loaf as an endorsement...
    Bernays' Ideas on Propaganda Continue to Haunt Americans

    When Americans see the bizarre responses of the mainstream media and the progressive politicians to tragedies such as the Tucson shootings for instance, the proposal to ban rhetoric or symbols perceived to be violent many wonder how the country has come to this strange place where elitists are moving to gain control at the expense of individual liberties. Perhaps one need not look past the Woodrow Wilson administration for the answer.
    Educate ... Please.

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  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by m77ranger View Post
    Whats better than AZ logic? Internet logic! Whats the best type of logic? AZ logic on the internet! You boys never disappoint. Thanks for the entertainment.

    Oh, I'm also glad that the OP is okay and the jerk is in jail.
    Yeeeeesssss......ROTFLOL!
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

  4. #154
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    This thread has run it course. People like guns and people dislike guns. Harold Fish was an idiot, yet does not represent the majority of gun owners.

    Can we move on to some riding stroke or at least debate when Skinny Tire will turn on his A/C.
    Currently at Mayo Clinic being tested for a kidney transplant. Donors welcome.

  5. #155
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    I'm curious what people hunt with an AR 15?

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillbo View Post
    I'm curious what people hunt with an AR 15?
    Black bear, wild boars, deer and everything smaller.

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillbo View Post
    I'm curious what people hunt with an AR 15?
    Chupacabra.
    Currently at Mayo Clinic being tested for a kidney transplant. Donors welcome.

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKA Monkeybutt View Post
    Black bear, wild boars, deer and everything smaller.
    I wouldn't explicitly hunt a bear with an .223 AR. An AR-15 is powerful prairie dog medicine. It'll also really ruin a coyote's day. One of the better things about the .223/5.56 round is that you can have light and fast 40gr varmint rounds all the way up to 77gr Sierra Matchkings, which the military uses in the Mk262 round.

    Or, you could buy another upper and switch it out to 6.8 SPC, 6.5 Grendel, .300 Blackout, .450 Bushmaster, .458 SOCOM, .50 Beowulf.

    Or, buy an AR-10 variant in .308 and be able to kill anything in the lower 48.

    The AR is an amazingly versatile hunting platform.

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big_Games View Post
    what a ****ing *******. glad you ok and got to beat his ass

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillbo View Post
    I'm curious what people hunt with an AR 15?
    Apparently other people. Isn't that what Assault Rifles were designed for; soldiers?
    "Grab life by the bars"

  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1fast29er View Post
    Apparently other people. Isn't that what Assault Rifles were designed for; soldiers?
    Yea, sure LOL

    Armalite Rifle
    Design Rights sold in 1959

    My AR is designated as a Homeland Defense Rifle

  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeabuser View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by big0mike View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bikeabuser View Post
    Try telling that to the Judge/Jury
    Why would anyone have to feign sorrow over taking a life when that life severely deserved to be taken? ESPECIALLY, if taking that life was the only way to save my own or someone else's.
    I'll suggest you research those who have been in this situation.

    It has nothing to do with sorrow, and everything to do with a major life changing event that you can't walk away from.
    Your original comment was about the appearance you give a judge or jury. Nothing to do with a person's mental well-being before during, or after a deadly force encounter.

    And, do you really read what I'm writing and think I don't know a little on the subject? Haven't thought about he subject a lot. Haven't read at least a couple books on the subject? Haven't trained for such encounters both mentally and physically?

  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by big0mike View Post

    And, do you really read what I'm writing and think I don't know a little on the subject? Haven't thought about he subject a lot. Haven't read at least a couple books on the subject? Haven't trained for such encounters both mentally and physically?
    to be honest, it doesnt seem to me that you know much about what you are talking about. Most people who know a lot about a subject are the first ones to acknowledge the gray areas, the subtleties, the point\counterpoint of any position. Rarely do experts sound like kneejerks.

    hey, you asked...

  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by chollaball View Post
    to be honest, it doesnt seem to me that you know much about what you are talking about. Most people who know a lot about a subject are the first ones to acknowledge the gray areas, the subtleties, the point\counterpoint of any position. Rarely do experts sound like kneejerks.

    hey, you asked...
    word

  15. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by chollaball View Post
    to be honest, it doesnt seem to me that you know much about what you are talking about. Most people who know a lot about a subject are the first ones to acknowledge the gray areas, the subtleties, the point\counterpoint of any position. Rarely do experts sound like kneejerks.
    Your original question asked something to the affect of "what is 'bad'?". I gave you a list of my ideal bad people that don't deserve to live. Of course there are gray areas. Not as many as most would like there to be, though.

    But, to hear of a shooting and think we need to talk about guns and how to make people "feel" safer is the ultimate in kneejerkedness.

    We do not have a gun problem. We have a people problem. Find the people that are causing the problem and kill them. Problem solved. I'm not so sure why that's such a difficult concept to grasp.

  16. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by big0mike View Post
    We do not have a gun problem. We have a people problem. Find the people that are causing the problem and kill them..
    oh my bad.

    spending the rest of the evening on wikipedia to find all the venerable and respected people in history who held this view, and the sterling legacies they left.

  17. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKA Monkeybutt View Post
    Black bear, wild boars, deer and everything smaller.
    Doubtful, many states have laws against taking deer with anything smaller than a .243, because it tends to prolong death and it's not very sportsman like.

    An AR round is a very bad idea for taking game like above, since it fragments and goes into little pieces with any energy, which is why it's so deadly against humans, but animal's tougher hides, sinews and skeletal structure usually requires something more substantial.

    Although not exactly the same as other states I've lived in, the arizona laws still make using something like an AR fairly ridiculous:
    R12-4-303
    Unlawful Devices, Methods, and Ammunition
    A. In addition to the prohibitions prescribed in A.R.S.
    17-301 and 17-309, the following devices, methods, and
    ammunition are unlawful for taking any wildlife in this
    state. An individual shall not use or possess any of the
    following while taking wildlife:
    1. Fully automatic firearms, including firearms capable
    of selective automatic fire;
    2. Tracer, armor-piercing, or full-jacketed ammunition
    designed for military use
    ;
    3. Shotguns larger than 10 gauge or shotguns capable
    of holding more than five shells in the magazine,
    unless plugged with a one-piece filler that cannot
    be removed without disassembling the gun, and that
    limits the magazine capacity to five shells;
    4. Semiautomatic centerfire rifles with a magazine
    capacity of more than five cartridges
    , unless the
    magazine is modified with a filler or stop that cannot
    be removed without disassembling the magazine;
    5. Contrivances designed to silence, muffle, or minimize the report of a firearm;
    6. Poisoned projectiles, or projectiles that contain
    explosives; or
    7. Pitfalls of greater than 5-gallon size, explosives, poisons, or stupefying substances, except as permitted
    in A.R.S. 17-239,
    I have an AR. It's made for killing people. I use it for plinking, but make no mistake, it's primarily for killing people.
    Last edited by Jayem; 12-26-2012 at 09:40 PM.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  18. #168
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    Awesome man. I'm glad you got away in one piece. I love stories like these where the good guy gets some justice.

    Aloha my braddah.
    I like to hug trees at FULL SPEED!

  19. #169
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    the argument of using it as a hunting rifle to me is just funny. I am sure any comparison to an AR to a good quality bolt-aciton hunting rifle would show that the only advantage the AR has is the additional round capacity. If you get more then one or two shots off and miss your target, when the hell would I want you to have 28 more to send flying around? If you need that many rounds to hunt then you do NOT have any use having one in your hands.

    I am a gun owner that supports stricter laws. I agree that criminals will always get guns if they want too. there are too many "responsible" gun owners that are all to happy to sell something on the side to anyone to make a few $$$. When we get to the point that we have as many kids bringing guns to school as we do, there is a bigger issue. They are not searching out black market venues to find people with questionable ethics that will not do the right thing, they are walking down the hall of a "responsible" gun owner and just picking it up. The argument could be made that they are not responsible if their kids get ahold of them but how can we tell the difference?

    the car comparison is a good one. If there were no laws/restrictions on speed you would probably have heard me roar past you in my mustang gt while explaining I am just trying to stay ahead of the vette running me down. People need limits set on alot of the decisions they make and I think this is one of them. Back when the constatution was written the weapons the citizens used to hunt were the same ones they used to go to war with. That is not the case today.....
    and the lurker returns to the dark corner

  20. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Doubtful, many states have laws against taking deer with anything smaller than a .243, because it tends to prolong death and it's not very sportsman like.

    An AR round is a very bad idea for taking game like above, since it fragments and goes into little pieces with any energy, which is why it's so deadly against humans, but animal's tougher hides, sinews and skeletal structure usually requires something more substantial.

    Although not exactly the same as other states I've lived in, the arizona laws still make using something like an AR fairly ridiculous:


    I have an AR. It's made for killing people. I use it for plinking, but make no mistake, it's primarily for killing people.

    Worked for these guys. ar15 hunting - Google Search

    I overheard someone once tell another person a .22 would bounce off a leather jacket. Therre is a lot of ******** out there.

    If I can still hunt (tree stands are for rookies) and kill deer with an arrow, I can kill a deer with a high power rifle at close range.

  21. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKA Monkeybutt View Post
    Worked for these guys. ar15 hunting - Google Search

    I overheard someone once tell another person a .22 would bounce off a leather jacket. Therre is a lot of ******** out there.

    If I can still hunt (tree stands are for rookies) and kill deer with an arrow, I can kill a deer with a high power rifle at close range.
    Well, no, it ain't going to bounce off leather, and there are lots of people that are mistaken about the ballistics. After a certain velocity, it slows down, doesn't fragment, yaws and wobbles more, etc. .45s have been known to not penetrate heavy clothing, in fact at "the range" in prescott I've been surprised by the lack of penetrating power, certain things that I thought it was sure to go through, it didn't. If you think the myths you heard were bad, you should hear it in the military during basic and advanced training. I had idiots swear up and down that an M60 was ".60 cal". So I asked what an M2 .50 cal was, 2-cal? You'd think that would silence it, but nope, completely idiotic, with all sorts of other similar outrageously wrong claims.


    I'll reiterate the above though, shooting a deer from a few feet away with an AR is just dumb. The ballistics are not as favorable on bigger animals due to the light high velocity round and the fragmentation characteristics, and if you're really shooting deer close enough, it's not going to make any difference if you use that or a 9mm handgun, but you don't go buy the worst suited rifle for hunting . Better off with something bigger and heavier, in fact that's why hunting rounds tend to be 7mm, 300 mag, etc. The .223/5.56 is known as a "varmint" caliber in the "hunting" circles, due to being a very small and light round. Good for the prarie dogs and the such, but not bigger game.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  22. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by big0mike View Post
    Your original comment was about the appearance you give a judge or jury. Nothing to do with a person's mental well-being before during, or after a deadly force encounter.

    And, do you really read what I'm writing and think I don't know a little on the subject? Haven't thought about he subject a lot. Haven't read at least a couple books on the subject? Haven't trained for such encounters both mentally and physically?
    Not knowing you, and going by your choice of words, and their use ... All I can do is believe what I read in a literal sense.
    Quote Originally Posted by big0mike View Post
    We do not have a gun problem. We have a people problem. Find the people that are causing the problem and kill them. Problem solved. I'm not so sure why that's such a difficult concept to grasp.
    And I find your latest to be filled with ill-chosen words, and an attitude that might someday bring you trouble

    Wanna define "The Problem" before you start your little spree ... Judge, Jury, and Executioner ?

    I'm gonna try to stay out of further conversation with you, because I sure didn't come to MTBR so that I might argue about The Constitution, Bill Of Rights, The Meaning of Liberty, and what defines Personal Responsibility.

  23. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by chollaball View Post
    oh my bad. spending the rest of the evening on wikipedia to find all the venerable and respected people in history who held this view, and the sterling legacies they left.
    No, actually, it's my bad. When you first asked the questions of who the bad guys were I thought maybe you've just never thought about it because defining the really bad people that don't deserve to live is relatively easy. If I'd thought you wanted an extensive list of Yes, No, and several levels of Maybes I would not have made my list so short thus avoiding some confusion.

    I was short on time last night and as I was driving home it dawned on me that you think I know nothing on the subject simply because you do not agree with me. Which is kinda sad but it's expected sometimes.

    Quote Originally Posted by bikeabuser View Post
    Wanna define "The Problem" before you start your little spree ... Judge, Jury, and Executioner?
    I thought I already did in one of my first posts?

    Murderers, rapists, child molesters, drug dealers, gangbangers, drunk drivers? I certainly hope we can agree that society would be best off without these people, yes? Hell, if pressed for it with no other resolution I would accept throwing them all in prison for life. I think it's an incredible waste of tax payer money but getting them out of society forever is the goal.

    And, contrary to what you obviously think, I have no plans for spree. Not my job. That's why we pay the gubment a good portion of our income. Now, if someone comes knocking on my door in the middle of the night just begging to get shot he will have made the choice for me.

    I get it that some people don't FEEL comfortable executing people that deserve it. I am more comfortable KNOWING that the people that want to do others harm are not around to do it.

    And that's a big difference between people. Many want to FEEL safe and pass laws making things illegal. Usually, it's something that's already illegal so they make a new class of law for it like "Road Rage" or "Hate Crime", neither of which address the real problem.

    Others, like me, are misguided enough to actually treat the root of EVERY problem: bad people.

  24. #174
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    Dang, lots of angry, middle-aged, white man here today.....
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

  25. #175
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    let me sum up my position, and i will leave it at this.
    you have way too many rounds going off when even michael j fox can hit a squirrel in his backyard

    while i dont like guns,, i 'm not advocating that they be banned altogether. i think there should be a better mandatory paperwork trail, especially on the larger ones. perhaps even endorsements on licensing for them (similar to type-ratings on a pilots license for planes over 12,500lbs gross)

    its obvious that many sellers only see the $$ and dont want to lose a sale holding that up. ATF should periodically send in undercover buyers to make sure that all places are thorough with checks (including gun shows). a gas station clerk gets immediately hauled off to jail if they sell a case of beer to an undercover minor, but gun shows dont require checks.. might as well open a Jack Daniels both at sponge-bob-on-ice.

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