Page 5 of 10 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ... LastLast
Results 101 to 125 of 231
  1. #101
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    84
    If a padlock in a sock works in jail, I'm sure that a padlock at the end of a short cable, stashed in a pants pocket will work pretty well! Most of the time, you won't have time to rifle through your backpack to retrieve a weapon.
    You never know where a situation will go down. A co worker of mine, (mid 50s female) was waiting for a friend to pick her up and give her a ride to work at the Fry's on 60th street and Thomas, at about 10 PM. This mugger with a knife, sneaks up behind her and starts to yank on her backpack, threatening to stab her if she don't let go. Without thinking, she grabs a stethoscope she had draped around her neck and starts beating the **** out of him! Bystanders called the cops and the thug was arrested. Happy ending! Moral of story, you never know where it's going to happen and you need to have something within reach, right then and there!
    About guns. Remember the hiker up on the rim who had to use a gun to defend himself against a crazed dog owner? Well, he had a legal gun with permit and now he's doing life for murder. He's alive, but he'll never put foot on a trail again.
    There's no single best answer, but I think it's important to be aware of surroundings and respond accordingly.

  2. #102
    SamuraiBunnyGuy
    Reputation: longhairmike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    2,417
    mike,, that's why i said i would have to WONDER,, generally when there is a family situation,, especially with a kid involved,, the wife is going to be more likely to plead with the husband not to take such stupid risks putting their entire family in danger.

    i think its the younger single guys who are the most dangerous and more willing to risk everything.

  3. #103
    No Clue Crew
    Reputation: big0mike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    3,495
    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba Dinglespeed View Post
    Remember the hiker [in Prescott] who had to use a gun to defend himself against a crazed dog owner? Well, he had a legal gun with permit and now he's doing life for murder. He's alive, but he'll never put foot on a trail again.
    There's the problem with Mr Fish: He was unable to prove to a jury that your average person would have reacted the same way in the same situation.

  4. #104
    No Clue Crew
    Reputation: big0mike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    3,495
    Quote Originally Posted by longhairmike View Post
    mike,, that's why i said i would have to WONDER,, generally when there is a family situation,, especially with a kid involved,, the wife is going to be more likely to plead with the husband not to take such stupid risks putting their entire family in danger.

    i think its the younger single guys who are the most dangerous and more willing to risk everything.
    I know what you're sayin'... I am just not able to give scumbags even the slightest bit of credit for actually having a decent or moral bone in their body.

  5. #105
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Eazy_E's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    1,446
    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba Dinglespeed View Post
    About guns. Remember the hiker up on the rim who had to use a gun to defend himself against a crazed dog owner? Well, he had a legal gun with permit and now he's doing life for murder. He's alive, but he'll never put foot on a trail again.
    Fish's charge got overturned. He died earlier this year from cancer, though.

    Personally, I don't think Fish did anything wrong. He fried himself by talking to the cops without a lawyer. There was also some butthurt that he was carrying a Glock 20, which isn't a common LE weapon. 10mm Auto is good medicine for bears, lions, and two legged predators, though, so I can't fault anybody for that.

    Now, the burden of proof is on the prosecution instead of the defense that you were justified, so hopefully, that doesn't happen to anybody else.

  6. #106
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    13
    Quote Originally Posted by Big_Games View Post
    I was ridding home from work late that night when I had stopped at the rest area along the canal near 7th Street and Northern to take a break. It's a 12 mile commute and I had just worked approximately 15 hours so I was tired. I was resting there for about 5 minutes when this thug runs up to me with a gun pulled out yelling at me to give him my phone and to empty out my backpack. He held me at gunpoint for about 10 minutes while I was emptying out contents of my backpack.

    I was trying to stall him by doing it very slowly and trying to talk him out of harming me. He kept threading to shoot me if I didn't hurry up. I was just hoping that somebody would pass by while this was occurring then maybe I could escape. I didn't want to just hand over all my property and let him shoot me and get away. I had a real bad vibe that he was going to shoot me anyways ... He was definitely tweaking on drugs so he was obviously not thinking rationally, I wasn't about to just be another helpless victim of a robbery and murder if I could help it.

    So after stalling him for several minutes I saw my chance just a he was getting aggressively more angry and getting ready to do something drastic I saw a light coming from a distance about 100 yards away on the bike path. I then pointed and said "is that the cops" as he turned away to look I threw my backpack at him and tackled him to the ground. I started punching him in the head with my right fist while using my left to try to pull the gun from his hand. At this point that light I saw was a man ridding a bike and he was just a few feet away. I shouted to the man to call 911 because I was being robbed by this guy with a gun. The guy backed away and said he was calling 911 now.

    While he was calling for help me and the thug were still in a scuffle in the ground. just when i was about to wrestle the gun from him he bite my arm, he then flung the gun in the air away from us and then I just started going to work on him... punching him repeatedly with both fists. Then I grabbed the dude's throat with both hands and started chocking him while slamming his head into the pavement repeatedly. During the whole struggle he was screaming for me to "please let him go"

    It's beyond me how I didn't knock this guy unconscious... It must of been the adrenalin rush he had from the Meth or PCP he was on. Either way at this point I was so angry and I started taunting him while kicking his ass... I told him he was going to be spending a very long time in prison when the cops get here. Then he shoved a long object into my eye caused me to release my grip on him.

    He then jumped on my bike and rode off before I could react. I was so pissed he got away. Well during the struggle he dropped his own cellphone behind and also a spare magazine clip for the gun. All of which were used to locate and identify the suspect. He got away with my bike and iPhone. I didn't get my phone service disconnected until several days later because I thought maybe the punk would be stupid enough to make calls with it to people he knows and that could be a way to locate and identify him also. The idiot placed several calls and texts to his friends and family members. lol he thought he had gotten away clean. Well detectives had him under surveillance no longer then 24 hours after the incident occurred.

    After about 5 days of surveillance they made the arrest. They were just waiting for enough evidence to make the arrest. Him using my iPhone is what sealed the deal.
    I would of choked him out and broken both of his arms

  7. #107
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    13
    IF I was in your same situation... I reccommend taking up some jiu-jitsu lessons.. never a bad idea.

  8. #108
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    2,041
    ONLY YOU can decide what level of protection is appropriate for YOU, and with that said, it will be YOUR responsibliity to knows the laws as they pertain to YOUR choices.

    The beatdown crowd is as stupid as the shoot crowd ... Nothing good ever comes from these actions, and regardless of which camp you lean toward, you should give a lawyer a retainer, memorize their number, understand local laws to the best of your ability, and hope you never need to call your lawyer

  9. #109
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Eazy_E's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    1,446
    Quote Originally Posted by bikeabuser View Post
    ONLY YOU can decide what level of protection is appropriate for YOU, and with that said, it will be YOUR responsibliity to knows the laws as they pertain to YOUR choices.

    The beatdown crowd is as stupid as the shoot crowd ... Nothing good ever comes from these actions, and regardless of which camp you lean toward, you should give a lawyer a retainer, memorize their number, understand local laws to the best of your ability, and hope you never need to call your lawyer
    Nothing good should come if you decide to point a gun at somebody. If you decide to use a gun to exploit your fellow man, you deserve what happens and it warms my heart to hear of a POS getting shot.

    I'd like to know how human life simultaneously got so cheap and dear at the same time. Life is cheap because people kill each other for drugs, money, wearing the wrong color, fame, or whatever other petty reason there is. But, life is also so dear that we as a society demonize those of us who do decide that we want to protect ourselves. See Fish and Zimmerman. Doesn't make sense to me.

    People who prey on others are of no benefit or use to society. Fcuk them, and fcuk anybody who defends them.

    I stand by my initial opinion that the OP did good beating the perp, and my only regret is that OP didn't kill the guy instead.

  10. #110
    parenting for gnarness
    Reputation: chollaball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    5,720
    Quote Originally Posted by big0mike View Post
    There's the problem with Mr Fish: He was unable to prove to a jury that your average person would have reacted the same way in the same situation.
    i've followed that Fish case for what is it over 5 years now? He was interviewed a couple years ago and said that no matter the cause of the incident he regretted ever getting into the situation as it cost him so much money and time. Not being there...we can not know who's side of the story made sense, but its certainly got to involve 1 and maybe 2 morons to shoot someone on a trail. Seriously...what is the worst that has ever happened to you on a trail? By all accounts this was not a crime, but a trail conflict that got out of control What is wrong with a wounding shot from a .22, pepper spray etc? Had to be some seriously agro people. This situation should not be a positive example for anyone.

  11. #111
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    2,041
    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy_E View Post
    Nothing good should come if you decide to point a gun at somebody. If you decide to use a gun to exploit your fellow man, you deserve what happens and it warms my heart to hear of a POS getting shot.

    I'd like to know how human life simultaneously got so cheap and dear at the same time. Life is cheap because people kill each other for drugs, money, wearing the wrong color, fame, or whatever other petty reason there is. But, life is also so dear that we as a society demonize those of us who do decide that we want to protect ourselves. See Fish and Zimmerman. Doesn't make sense to me.

    People who prey on others are of no benefit or use to society. Fcuk them, and fcuk anybody who defends them.

    I stand by my initial opinion that the OP did good beating the perp, and my only regret is that OP didn't kill the guy instead.
    Like I said "Nothing good ever comes from these actions"

    Concerning the perp and the OP ... It could have ended in any fashion imaginable, and I am judging no one.

    As for my actions,
    I know what I would attempt in such a situation, and I would face the consequences that my decision might bring forth.
    Others would need to do the same ... And should consider all options, as part of a mental exercise in potentials and outcomes.

    None will be ideal, but some outcomes are obviously preferred.

  12. #112
    Meatbomb
    Reputation: Phillbo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    5,025
    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy_E View Post

    Lethal force is also acceptable in response to a physical alteration.
    Such as some tweeker tailor jumping out of the bushes and trying to hem your slacks

  13. #113
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    2,869
    Fish case? Two colossal morons left to their own devices.
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

  14. #114
    No Clue Crew
    Reputation: big0mike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    3,495
    Quote Originally Posted by bikeabuser View Post
    The beatdown crowd is as stupid as the shoot crowd ... Nothing good ever comes from these actions...
    Many times the bad guy dies. That is ALWAYS good.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy_E View Post
    I'd like to know how human life simultaneously got so cheap and dear at the same time. Life is cheap because people kill each other for drugs, money, wearing the wrong color, fame, or whatever other petty reason there is. But, life is also so dear that we as a society demonize those of us who do decide that we want to protect ourselves.
    EXACTLY. Life is so precious that no one wants to die. But not nearly enough people are willing to take a life that is absolutely worthless to save a life that likely has value.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy_E View Post
    People who prey on others are of no benefit or use to society. fcuk them, and fcuk anybody who defends them.
    Agreed.

  15. #115
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    2,041
    Quote Originally Posted by big0mike View Post
    Many times the bad guy dies. That is ALWAYS good.


    EXACTLY. Life is so precious that no one wants to die. But not nearly enough people are willing to take a life that is absolutely worthless to save a life that likely has value.


    Agreed.
    I've already stated that one should retain a lawyer for such things !!

    Try telling that to the Judge/Jury

    Can't argue this !!!

  16. #116
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    3,431
    Nice Job! Here's to hoping he dies in prison!
    Re-Cycled Person who rides a mountain bicycle.

  17. #117
    No Clue Crew
    Reputation: big0mike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    3,495
    Quote Originally Posted by bikeabuser View Post
    Try telling that to the Judge/Jury
    Why would anyone have to feign sorrow over taking a life when that life severely deserved to be taken? ESPECIALLY, if taking that life was the only way to save my own or someone else's.

  18. #118
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    1,123
    Not being a black-and-white type of guy, can anyone define the precise circumstances when a life becomes "worthless" and worthy of plugging full of lead?

    I keep seeing "bad guy" thrown around. But how bad is bad?

    What I'm getting at is, let's say a guy is stealing your bike. He doesn't have any weapons, but he's broken into your garage. Is he "bad" enough to kill?

  19. #119
    Meatbomb
    Reputation: Phillbo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    5,025
    Bad = someone threatening my life. If I'm forced to chose, he loses.

  20. #120
    mtbr member
    Reputation: AKA Monkeybutt's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    1,319
    Quote Originally Posted by PhxChem View Post

    What I'm getting at is, let's say a guy is stealing your bike. He doesn't have any weapons, but he's broken into your garage. Is he "bad" enough to kill?
    This is the same guy that would probably rape your wife if he had the chance.

    Can you kill him for getting into your garage? Probably not a good idea. Will he destroy your family or ruin your life? Probably if he has a chance. To him it is like getting a promotion in his line of work.

  21. #121
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Eazy_E's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    1,446
    Quote Originally Posted by PhxChem View Post
    Not being a black-and-white type of guy, can anyone define the precise circumstances when a life becomes "worthless" and worthy of plugging full of lead?

    I keep seeing "bad guy" thrown around. But how bad is bad?

    What I'm getting at is, let's say a guy is stealing your bike. He doesn't have any weapons, but he's broken into your garage. Is he "bad" enough to kill?


    To answer your question, yes, if he's in your home, he's legal to kill. Google the AZ "Castle Doctorine" laws. Unlawful forcible entry plus reasonable suspicion he's there to cause you harm or commit a felony(burglary) equals kill the bastard. Also, you have no duty to retreat first in the face of an attack.

    You guys need to remember, we're talking about Arizona. It's one of four states with constitutional carry. If you shoot a scumbag, nobody cares. Don't make stupid(or any comments) to the police about what happened without a lawyer. Ever since 2006, the prosecutor has to prove that you were not justified to shoot. Not the other way around.

    You guys don't have to worry about what you'll say to the judge or jury. If you act within the parameters of the law, you'll never see either. Arizona isn't soft on criminals, they're not going to prosecute you for killing somebody who had it coming. That's the DA stand to gain for doing a witch hunt on a legal citizen who protected himself?

  22. #122
    bland
    Reputation: m77ranger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    1,272
    Whats better than AZ logic? Internet logic! Whats the best type of logic? AZ logic on the internet! You boys never disappoint. Thanks for the entertainment.

    Oh, I'm also glad that the OP is okay and the jerk is in jail.

  23. #123
    No Clue Crew
    Reputation: big0mike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    3,495
    Quote Originally Posted by PhxChem View Post
    Not being a black-and-white type of guy, can anyone define the precise circumstances when a life becomes "worthless" and worthy of plugging full of lead? I keep seeing "bad guy" thrown around. But how bad is bad?
    This will vary to each person and, in all honesty, is this really that difficult to define? Most of the time "bad" is defined as having the ability to cause grave bodily harm or death. A guy pulls a gun or knife on you in an effort to obtain something of yours. This guy needs to be dead badly.

    My version of bad, were I King, would be substantially loosened.
    Thief = Dead
    Drug Dealer = Dead
    Murderer = Dead
    Gangster = Dead
    Rapist = Anally raped with a rusty baseball bat then dead.
    Child Molester = Anally raped with the same rusty bat, then beaten severely enough so that he dies very slowly and very painfully. Probably would be a good idea if several people took a dump on him while he died.

    Quote Originally Posted by PhxChem View Post
    What I'm getting at is, let's say a guy is stealing your bike. He doesn't have any weapons, but he's broken into your garage. Is he "bad" enough to kill?
    By the law you (unfortunately) can not shoot someone for stealing your property. But, if you are in fear for your life (especially if you are in your own home thanks to the "Make my Day" and "Castle Doctrine" laws passed many places) you can kill him.

    I was just talking with a buddy as we rode about this kinda thing. The problem with society nowadays is NOT that there are so many bad guys around. The problem is that so much of society feels it's NOT THEIR job to protect their own lives and property. Who's is it?

    It has been proven and ruled in many cases that the police have NO duty to protect anyone. The police is reactionary. They will be there to mop up the blood of your loved ones and hopefully catch who did it. It is VERY unlikely that they will stop anyone (very many) from being killed if someone wants to kill them.

    If everyone that was ever killed had the means and, MOST IMPORTANTLY, the DESIRE to save their own asses there'd be a lot of good guys around still as well as a lot of dead bad guys who couldn't do the same thing to someone else.

    But they don't. Society is sheep.

  24. #124
    parenting for gnarness
    Reputation: chollaball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    5,720
    Quote Originally Posted by big0mike View Post
    This will vary to each person and, in all honesty, is this really that difficult to define? Most of the time "bad" is defined as having the ability to cause grave bodily harm or death. A guy pulls a gun or knife on you in an effort to obtain something of yours. This guy needs to be dead badly.

    My version of bad, were I King, would be substantially loosened.
    Thief = Dead
    Drug Dealer = Dead
    Murderer = Dead
    Gangster = Dead
    Rapist = Anally raped with a rusty baseball bat then dead.
    Child Molester = Anally raped with the same rusty bat, then beaten severely enough so that he dies very slowly and very painfully. Probably would be a good idea if several people took a dump on him while he died.


    By the law you (unfortunately) can not shoot someone for stealing your property. But, if you are in fear for your life (especially if you are in your own home thanks to the "Make my Day" and "Castle Doctrine" laws passed many places) you can kill him.

    I was just talking with a buddy as we rode about this kinda thing. The problem with society nowadays is NOT that there are so many bad guys around. The problem is that so much of society feels it's NOT THEIR job to protect their own lives and property. Who's is it?

    It has been proven and ruled in many cases that the police have NO duty to protect anyone. The police is reactionary. They will be there to mop up the blood of your loved ones and hopefully catch who did it. It is VERY unlikely that they will stop anyone (very many) from being killed if someone wants to kill them.

    If everyone that was ever killed had the means and, MOST IMPORTANTLY, the DESIRE to save their own asses there'd be a lot of good guys around still as well as a lot of dead bad guys who couldn't do the same thing to someone else.

    But they don't. Society is sheep.
    hey i'm just curious...
    the guy who sells legally to a liscencsed medical marijuana patient, and who is also a liscensed care-provider. And then makes a few extra bucks selling a bag to someone for recreation? Still dead?

    kneejerk idiotic posturing like this is why no one can discuss common sense gun laws and everyone falls back to pointless theory 250 years frozen in stone. Enjoy your theory. I'm sure Harold Fish did.

  25. #125
    Shovel Ready
    Reputation: Cycle64's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    5,776
    I could be wrong, but doubt many that say kill the bastages. Are out looking to pull a weapon at the drop of a hat. The thought of not being able to protect myself or others while the criminal has an illegal weapon is frightening.

    The story of Mr. Fish could be based on any topic, when you have both a political system and biased Judge!

    by Gerard Valentino
    The prosecution of Harold Fish reignited the debate over self-defense laws in America. For those not familiar with the story, Mr. Fish was convicted in Coconino County, Arizona of 2nd degree murder despite staying on site and rendering aid after being forced to shoot a violent attacker.
    Had Mr. Fish fled, the remote area where the shooting took place meant he was unlikely to be identified.
    Despite the opinion of the deputy that processed the crime scene and a mountain of evidence that proved Mr. Fish acted in self-defense, Coconino County authorities bowed to political pressure and pursued a baseless murder charge. When the judge excluded relevant evidence during the subsequent trial, it left the defense at a disadvantage and led to a guilty verdict.
    Thankfully, Mr. Fish won his appeal and is currently a free man. His story, however, shows how laws in America put law-abiding citizens at a disadvantage when forced to use self defense.
    Buckeye Firearms Association attorney Ken Hanson constantly reminds citizens to wait for legal representation before talking to police after a self-defense shooting. Yet most honest citizens think that since they are innocent, it can't do any harm.
    Adding to the confusion, in most states self-defense is an affirmative defense, which means if the case goes to trial, the law-abiding citizen has to prove the act of self-preservation was legally justified. That means if the case makes it to court, the honest citizen sits at the defendant's table and the criminal that tried to commit a violent crime is considered the victim.
    The establishment media coverage of gun owners also works against law-abiding citizens who use deadly force.
    By painting gun owners as a semi-literate knuckle-dragging fringe group, the establishment media has furthered the myth that anyone carrying a gun for self-defense is a crazed vigilante. Since millions of Americans are now legally carrying guns, nothing can be further from the truth. But, because gun owners are portrayed that way in popular culture, it becomes an accepted stereotype.
    Oddly enough, the violent past of Mr. Fish's attacker was ruled by the judge to be inadmissible. But Mr. Fish's history as a gun owner was allowed into evidence during the trial, and the prosecutor used it to portray him as a blood-thirsty killer.
    So, according to the prosecutor and judge in this case, the mere act of exercising the right to bear arms is justification for questioning a citizen's mental state, motives and character.
    As an honest citizen, Mr. Fish did what he considered to be the right thing by calling the authorities and then putting his trust in the criminal justice system. Instead of finding salvation and legal protection, however, his decision cost him three years in prison, and likely will bankrupt his family.
    Everyone wants the victim of a violent attack to notify the authorities after a self-defense shooting, but the persecution of Harold Fish will surely make the next armed citizen think twice.
    Such an outcome is unacceptable, and every American needs to be outraged. Yet, because Mr. Fish used a gun in self-defense, his nightmare barely caused a ripple outside of Arizona; A sad commentary on how self-defense cases are viewed in America today.
    The truth is if someone like Harold Fish can end up in jail, anyone can. He was simply going about his normal day when a violent attacker forced him into a no-win situation. Then, an unjust prosecutor used Mr. Fish's choice to exercise the God-given right to bear arms against him.
    That should never happen in America.
    Gerard Valentino, a former military intelligence analyst, is a member of the Buckeye Firearms Foundation Board of Directors and the author of "The Valentino Chronicles Observations of a Middle Class Conservative," available through the Buckeye Firearms Association store.
    Currently at Mayo Clinic being tested for a kidney transplant. Donors welcome.

Page 5 of 10 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •