Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 27
  1. #1
    N/A
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    211

    Red Rock Pass Status

    Does anyone know the status of the Sedona Red Rock parking passes? I don't mean to re-hash the pros/cons of paid parking - I just want to know what is going on with that program and enforcement.

    I know the program was challenged in court and the challenge was upheld for unimproved trailhead parking but it appears that the FS is still appealing that decision or at least isn't in a hurry to change their signage since the signs still seem to be posted everywhere in Sedona.

    What is currently being enforced? Which trailheads are considered "improved"? I was hiking with family at a trailhead this week and the only improvement seemed to be painted lines for the parking lot. Not so much as a trash can at the trailhead.

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    149
    I think any kind of improved parking falls under the RR pass BS. If it is just a dirt lot or pull out or dirt road, tell them to go screw. Someone can correct me if I am wrong.

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation: woahey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    1,289
    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbkaz View Post
    Does anyone know the status of the Sedona Red Rock parking passes? I don't mean to re-hash the pros/cons of paid parking - I just want to know what is going on with that program and enforcement.

    I know the program was challenged in court and the challenge was upheld for unimproved trailhead parking but it appears that the FS is still appealing that decision or at least isn't in a hurry to change their signage since the signs still seem to be posted everywhere in Sedona.

    What is currently being enforced? Which trailheads are considered "improved"? I was hiking with family at a trailhead this week and the only improvement seemed to be painted lines for the parking lot. Not so much as a trash can at the trailhead.
    The trailheads have to have at least 3 of the amenities listed below (taken off USDA website) OR be in an area listed as a "High Impact Recreation Area". Clear as mud, right? As a local, I have a hard time defining which trailheads I need a pass at. At least it's cheap, a week pass is about the same cost of a pair of grips and a year is about the same as a 12 pack.

    Enhanced recreation amenities include: outstanding urban and backcountry hiking; day use picnic areas, restroom facilities; informational and interpretive signing; maintained roads for breath-taking vistas and photo opportunities; and secure places for individual solitude and family recreation.
    The secret to mountain biking is pretty simple. The slower you go the more likely it is you’ll crash.
    - Julie Furtado

  4. #4
    banned
    Reputation: traildoc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    5,540

    Bonking ... not feelin' well

    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbkaz View Post
    Does anyone know the status of the Sedona Red Rock parking passes? I don't mean to re-hash the pros/cons of paid parking - I just want to know what is going on with that program and enforcement.

    I know the program was challenged in court and the challenge was upheld for unimproved trailhead parking but it appears that the FS is still appealing that decision or at least isn't in a hurry to change their signage since the signs still seem to be posted everywhere to getin Sedona.

    What is currently being enforced? Which trailheads are considered "improved"? I was hiking with family at a trailhead this week and the only improvement seemed to be painted lines for the parking lot. Not so much as a trash can at the trailhead.
    The trailhead needs an outhouse, picnic table, kiosk and trash can. The signs are left to get tourons to buy the pass who don't know the above requirements. Let's face it no one is going to complain about spending $5 bucks when they have a great user experience.
    Last edited by traildoc; 11-25-2012 at 09:02 AM.

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    2,624
    For some people spending 5 bucks a day would make them go broke.

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    120
    The new Red Rock Pass fee area includes two major travel corridors and seven stand alone recreation sites. Included at these fee sites are the 6 standard amenity services including: restrooms, picnic tables, garbage receptacles, parking, signing and patrol.
    Specifically, the new designated fee area includes: a several mile corridor along State Route 89A, beginning at Midgley Bridge and extending north to Bootlegger day use area in Oak Creek Canyon; and secondly, the State Route 179 corridor beginning at Bell Rock Vista & Pathway and extending north past Back O' Beyond Road. These corridors include: the Huckaby Trailhead, Encinoso, Bootlegger, Banjo Bill and Halfway day use areas in Oak Creek Canyon; and Cathedral Rock, Little Horse, Courthouse Butte, Yavapai Vista, and Bell Rock Vista Trailheads along SR 179. Other individual sites include: Honanki, Palatki and V-V Heritage Sites, and Doe/Bear Mountain, Boynton Canyon, Baldwin and Jim Thompson Trailheads.

    The Daily Red Rock Pass remains at $5, Weekly Pass at $15, Annual Pass at $20, and the new Grand Annual Pass is available for $40. Passes are available for purchase at several Forest Service locations, the Sedona Chamber Visitor Center and various Sedona businesses.

    For more information, please contact the Red Rock Ranger District located one mile south of the Village of Oak Creek or call (928) 203-7500.
    Coconino National Forest - News & Events
    Professional Trail Builder and Guvmint Employee

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation: woahey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    1,289
    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona View Post
    For some people spending 5 bucks a day would make them go broke.
    A weekly is 15, a yearly is 20.
    The secret to mountain biking is pretty simple. The slower you go the more likely it is you’ll crash.
    - Julie Furtado

  8. #8
    Vincit qui patitur
    Reputation: owtdorz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    595
    I always buy a pass. $5 is cheap.
    I 4wheel, ride and hike.
    I just paid $6 at MMP. No big deal.
    Those that have $1000, 2000, 3000+ bikes complaining about paying $5 need to realize NOTHING is free.
    Deal with it and move on.
    Vincit qui patitur
    2012 GT Karakoram 3.0
    2012 Salsa Spearfish 2
    2014 KONA Process 153
    2013 Giant Defy
    2012 Access TCL

  9. #9
    EDR
    Reputation: eatdrinkride's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    9,029
    Quote Originally Posted by owtdorz View Post
    I always buy a pass. $5 is cheap.
    I 4wheel, ride and hike.
    I just paid $6 at MMP. No big deal.
    Those that have $1000, 2000, 3000+ bikes complaining about paying $5 need to realize NOTHING is free.
    Deal with it and move on.
    I kinda think you've missed the point. The type of car or bike we may or may not have is independent of the collection of fees by the FS at trail head parking areas. The fee's are for improved parking and the maintenance of those parking areas. Collecting the fees at areas that don't meet the criteria is unlawful. The catch is most buy their passes at a store, not a T/H and just assume they need the pass everywhere they go and park.

    Maybe some people are happy to just pay money whenever the Gub'nent implies you should. Not me.

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    149
    Paying a fee for a city, state or federal park is one thing. Wanting to charge a fee for parking on a dirt road in MY national forest, is where the line was drawn. That is what they tried to do. Thankfully, there were enough people like me who DIDN'T just "deal with it and move on".

    It isn't about the five dollars.

    I have no problem with the fee as it is now, paying for improvements and facilities is reasonable and legal. What they were trying to do wasn't.

  11. #11
    Elitest thrill junkie
    Reputation: Jayem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    19,693
    The trailhead up Andante Rd is a great place to park, nice parking spots, free, usually deserted. Great place for a Northern Sedona ride, either to the East or to the North.

    If you are thinking about riding some of the central Sedona trails, the Highschool is a great place to park, there's a nice network of trails that can take you to Oak Creek. Cross the creek, ride on more trails, possibly even down to B&B, then return. Great way to get the mileage in.

    If you are thinking of sticking to the Southern/East trails below highway 89a, start in Oak Creek for free.

    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation: woahey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    1,289
    Quote Originally Posted by SuctionGoat View Post
    Paying a fee for a city, state or federal park is one thing. Wanting to charge a fee for parking on a dirt road in MY national forest, is where the line was drawn.

    I have no problem with the fee as it is now, paying for improvements and facilities is reasonable and legal. What they were trying to do wasn't.
    So how do you s'pose that they come up with the money to make that old gravel lot into a nice trailhead with trash, tables and toilets?

    To me, paying $20 for a year to have unlimited access to any trail head and knowing I won't get a ticket is a great deal. Where I came from, state and county parks were the only places that any mtb trails existed. It cost $20-$50 for each park which usually only had one mediocre 10-15 mile trail. I wound up spending a couple hundred bucks a year on trail access.
    The secret to mountain biking is pretty simple. The slower you go the more likely it is you’ll crash.
    - Julie Furtado

  13. #13
    Elitest thrill junkie
    Reputation: Jayem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    19,693
    Quote Originally Posted by woahey View Post
    So how do you s'pose that they come up with the money to make that old gravel lot into a nice trailhead with trash, tables and toilets?
    Since the Red Rocks are a big reason people come to Sedona, city sales tax seems reasonable?
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Eazy_E's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    1,447
    Use fees are the fairest way to raise revenue in this case. Use the facilities, pay. If not, don't. An extra sales tax or property tax assessment is lame. Should my property taxes be high even if I don't have kids in school? Or if I choose to use private schools? Should I have to pay gas tax to improve the roads if I don't drive?

  15. #15
    Happy Trails
    Reputation: Scott In MD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    947
    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy_E View Post
    Should my property taxes be high even if I don't have kids in school? Or if I choose to use private schools? Should I have to pay gas tax to improve the roads if I don't drive?
    Did you go to school? Somebody else paid for it ...that's how it works. And about gas tax: it's less expensive and safer to drive here than nearly anywhere. In Norway (where there is a lot of oil) for instance, gasoline is $7 per gallon.

    There are a lot of things we could improve about Arizona, but I'm good with a $20 annual Red Rock Pass. Our biggest problem is that as a nation we want stuff that we don't want to pay for.....

    ... Is my opinion.

    (PS I'm newb around here and if you'll show me around Sedona, I'll drive, buy the pass, and the gas. Really. )

  16. #16
    banned
    Reputation: traildoc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    5,540
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott In MD View Post
    Did you go to school? Somebody else paid for it ...that's how it works. And about gas tax: it's less expensive and safer to drive here than nearly anywhere. In Norway (where there is a lot of oil) for instance, gasoline is $7 per gallon.

    There are a lot of things we could improve about Arizona, but I'm good with a $20 annual Red Rock Pass. Our biggest problem is that as a nation we want stuff that we don't want to pay for.....

    ... Is my opinion.

    (PS I'm newb around here and if you'll show me around Sedona, I'll drive, buy the pass, and the gas. Really. )
    Scott:

    If no one steps up to ride with you I would like to show you around when I get to ride on 12/6. Give me a PM if you want to ride.

    TD

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation: MtbAZ44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    1,592
    I wonder if the Tonto Pass changes have anything to do with this brew-ha...... If I have to pick a side, I definitely agree that if we have to pay, there have to be amenities.

    $5 or more a day to park in a dirt lot is stupid...
    fat old man ... fueled by Mexican pastries....

  18. #18
    Happy Trails
    Reputation: Scott In MD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    947
    Big Sedona over Christmas break is in my future! I'll drive up from PHX with room for a few, and TD and W show us around.

    BIG LIKE.

  19. #19
    bland
    Reputation: m77ranger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    1,272
    My family has lived in the area from at least the 1100's. They survived without government funded asphalt, a kiosk, or a place to drop your precious duce where nobody can see you. You don't need these things either. Dig a hole. Plan ahead. Don't be a jerk. This is my/ours/your land and I'm not paying a cent for what my family has survived of off for centuries without intervention by the federal government. I do see the other side though and I realize that some people have their heads up their a$$ and think its okay to trash this place and someone has to clean it up but that's not me. I could do without the asphalt, kiosks, and smelly a$$ cans.

  20. #20
    Elitest thrill junkie
    Reputation: Jayem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    19,693
    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy_E View Post
    Should my property taxes be high even if I don't have kids in school? Or if I choose to use private schools? Should I have to pay gas tax to improve the roads if I don't drive?
    Absolutely. That's called "civilization". If you don't like it, go live on an island, cultivate your own crops, pave your own roads, build your own school, make your own power-generating facility, and so on. This is how we can pitch in and help out when there are natural disasters, rather than say: "Screw that state, I don't live there and it's not my problem!" Yes, our government doesn't always spend money perfectly, but yes, you should have to pay for those things, even if you don't have kids or even if you somehow have a helicopter that allows you to avoid all roads (which then requires FAA coordination, so you don't hit another aircraft, and so on...).
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation: flagrider3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    71
    Does anyone know if the Grand Annual covers West Fork now? I have gotten different answers in the past.

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation: woahey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    1,289
    Quote Originally Posted by slat3dx View Post
    Does anyone know if the Grand Annual covers West Fork now? I have gotten different answers in the past.
    This leads me to say yes.... West Fork is also known as "Call O Canyon".

    Red Rock Country - Red Rock Pass Program
    The secret to mountain biking is pretty simple. The slower you go the more likely it is you’ll crash.
    - Julie Furtado

  23. #23
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    2,624
    Quote Originally Posted by woahey View Post
    A weekly is 15, a yearly is 20.
    Sure it's no big deal if you only use the Red Rock area and pay and when using other National Forests it's still free but what if every NF starts up their own pay to play fees. I have a problem with that and I would have a hard time paying for all of the areas I like to enjoy.

  24. #24
    banned
    Reputation: traildoc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    5,540
    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona View Post
    Sure it's no big deal if you only use the Red Rock area and pay and when using other National Forests it's still free but what if every NF starts up their own pay to play fees. I have a problem with that and I would have a hard time paying for all of the areas I like to enjoy.
    ra:

    I believe that the FS should encourage volunteer work by providing an annual pass when volunteers show up for EIGHT HOURS of work. Since many volunteers only work two hours on a project than break for a free lunch sponsored by a local business that would be four different events.

    But if an individual busted their butt (like Plumber Phil) for eight hours in one day the FS should give him an annual pass. The Adopt-a-Trail Trail boss should be given an Annual Pass immediately after taking their two day orientation class.

    I can't believe how much the FS says each volunteer hour is worth then they turn around and expect volunteers to work sixteen hours or more to earn a pass. I just don't get it. Could someone explain that to me?

  25. #25
    mtbr member
    Reputation: rockman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    3,902
    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    ra:

    I believe that the FS should encourage volunteer work by providing an annual pass when volunteers show up for EIGHT HOURS of work. Since many volunteers only work two hours on a project than break for a free lunch sponsored by a local business that would be four different events.

    But if an individual busted their butt (like Plumber Phil) for eight hours in one day the FS should give him an annual pass. The Adopt-a-Trail Trail boss should be given an Annual Pass immediately after taking their two day orientation class.

    I can't believe how much the FS says each volunteer hour is worth then they turn around and expect volunteers to work sixteen hours or more to earn a pass. I just don't get it. Could someone explain that to me?
    Maybe the recreation dept and accounting departments are not in the same building

    It's really not a big deal in Sedona anymore with the new ruling. Park at TH with pkng lots, bathrooms and improvements expect to display a pass. There's plenty of ways to get around the pass or places to park in Sedona without having to have the pass.

    On the other hand, if you do recreate in multiple places there are federal recreation fees elsewhere. RA is correct and double taxation to use these areas is lame. Join the fight if you are so inclined. Western Slope No Fee Coalition

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •