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  1. #1
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    Perfect Day for Adopt'a'Trail Workers to Do Badly Needed Trail Maintenance

    We went out today and finished up the famous Nodfest ride. While bombing down some of our fun Sedona trails I couldn't help but think how some trails hold up better than other trails. Certainly today would have been a great day to do maintenance if you had permission from the landmanager to do needed maintenance.

    After big rain periods the trails shows you where fast moving water is eroding the trail, so it is a great time to install a new water diverter or out slope the trail. Also it's a good time to do maintenance on jumps like NRA has where the faces and trannys have experience heavy wear due constant use.

    The problem we have in Sedona is that there is a two day waiting period between the asking for permission to do work on your adopted trail and actually being able to work on it. That means if you wanted to work on the lips of the Pig Tail jump trail today due to the excellent moisture conditions you couldn't start the work until Wednesday.

    Hopefully the FS will be able to speed up the paperwork process in the future and it would be interesting if other MTBR viewers have found a solution to this frustrating problem.

    It would be interesting if any badly needed trail maintenance was accomplished in Gold Canyon today and how those Adopt'a'Trail workers were able to respond so quickly?

    TD

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    Hopefully the FS will be able to speed up the paperwork process in the future and it would be interesting if other MTBR viewers have found a solution to this frustrating problem.


    TD
    Why not plan ahead? It's not like rain just occurs without you knowing about it around here.If you had applied for permission on Wed of last week you would have had it granted by Friday and could have performed trail maintenance on Sunday after the storm passed.

    It's really not that difficult.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    We went out today and finished up the famous Nodfest ride. While bombing down some of our fun Sedona trails I couldn't help but think how some trails hold up better than other trails. Certainly today would have been a great day to do maintenance if you had permission from the landmanager to do needed maintenance.

    After big rain periods the trails shows you where fast moving water is eroding the trail, so it is a great time to install a new water diverter or out slope the trail. Also it's a good time to do maintenance on jumps like NRA has where the faces and trannys have experience heavy wear due constant use.

    The problem we have in Sedona is that there is a two day waiting period between the asking for permission to do work on your adopted trail and actually being able to work on it. That means if you wanted to work on the lips of the Pig Tail jump trail today due to the excellent moisture conditions you couldn't start the work until Wednesday.

    Hopefully the FS will be able to speed up the paperwork process in the future and it would be interesting if other MTBR viewers have found a solution to this frustrating problem.

    It would be interesting if any badly needed trail maintenance was accomplished in Gold Canyon today and how those Adopt'a'Trail workers were able to respond so quickly?

    TD
    Adpot a Trail? What is this? Please tell us more.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  4. #4
    SamuraiBunnyGuy
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    ever given any thought to using senior chain-gangs for trailwork? i mean,, it would keep them off the roads

  5. #5
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    John,

    How do you know this is a 'problem' and 'frustrating' since you are not a member of the program?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillbo View Post
    Why not plan ahead? It's not like rain just occurs without you knowing about it around here.If you had applied for permission on Wed of last week you would have had it granted by Friday and could have performed trail maintenance on Sunday after the storm passed.

    It's really not that difficult.
    P:

    You obviously don't have a clue about how efficient trail maintenance works. You go out and ride a trail you have adopted and you have a couple of your friends with you. While you are riding the jumps you realize several need some work on the lips, faces or trannys. You have tools stashed at the site. You say to your friends would you mind helping me fix this jump to improve the riding experience. They say sure I don't mind spending an hour making the jump better.

    You the Adopt'a'Trail trail boss get out your phone and you text and phone Adrian's voice mail and let her know you are out with two people and are going to fix a jump on Pigtail. The text verifys the time you sent the voice mail and the voice mail give all the info about who is doing the work.

    TD

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by justinwp View Post
    John,

    How do you know this is a 'problem' and 'frustrating' since you are not a member of the program?
    Justin:

    Thanks for you input. Since I can only speak from personal experience on trying to help with those imbedded rock projects you did on the Grand Central and the Coyote trail and not being able to get Angie to get the paperwork done so I could do those projects you ended up doing. That was very frustrating to me personally. I had the tools stashed out there to do the work, but couldn't get the approvals.

    These are the pictures of the projects I was going to work on but you and CREC ended up doing the work since Angie wasn't able to get the approvals done in a timely manner.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Perfect Day for Adopt'a'Trail Workers to Do Badly Needed Trail Maintenance-005a.jpg  

    Perfect Day for Adopt'a'Trail Workers to Do Badly Needed Trail Maintenance-006a.jpg  

    Perfect Day for Adopt'a'Trail Workers to Do Badly Needed Trail Maintenance-007a.jpg  

    Perfect Day for Adopt'a'Trail Workers to Do Badly Needed Trail Maintenance-008a.jpg  

    Perfect Day for Adopt'a'Trail Workers to Do Badly Needed Trail Maintenance-009a.jpg  

    Perfect Day for Adopt'a'Trail Workers to Do Badly Needed Trail Maintenance-010a.jpg  

    Perfect Day for Adopt'a'Trail Workers to Do Badly Needed Trail Maintenance-012a.jpg  


  8. #8
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    ^^^
    And this is a serious question. What is wrong with those trails in those pictures? Looks very rideable to me, just looks like a wet trail. I've helped build and maintain a trail or 2 in my day, but will fully admit that I just do the labor, while the other people delegate.
    Last edited by tysonnemb; 12-17-2012 at 04:30 PM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by tysonnemb View Post
    ^^^
    And this is a serious question. What is wrong with those trails in those pictures? Looks very rideable to me, just looks like a wet trail. I've helped build and maintain a trail or 2 in my day, but will fully admit that I just do the labor, while the other people delegate.
    Tyson:

    Where does it look like the riders are going in he first picture? How are the first and second pictures different than the next five pictures?

  10. #10
    bland
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    Tyson:

    Where does it look like the riders are going in he first picture? How are the first and second pictures different than the next five pictures?
    What are grammar?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    Tyson:

    Where does it look like the riders are going in he first picture? How are the first and second pictures different than the next five pictures?
    Why do riders have to have a destination? Why can't they just go wherever the wind takes them?
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Observer View Post
    Why do riders have to have a destination? Why can't they just go wherever the wind takes them?
    This time of year, the wind takes us to Skinny Tire's house for hot chocolate or Hot Toddies depending on your flavor of choice.
    Currently at Mayo Clinic being tested for a kidney transplant. Donors welcome.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cycle64 View Post
    This time of year, the wind takes us to Skinny Tire's house for hot chocolate or Hot Toddies depending on your flavor of choice.
    Actually, it's hot water since I need to drop 15 lbs by Feb.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  14. #14
    Kathleen in AZ
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cycle64 View Post
    This time of year, the wind takes us to Skinny Tire's house for hot chocolate or Hot Toddies depending on your flavor of choice.
    ... as long as skinny tire's heat is turned on. if there's no heat then no way i'm going there for toddies.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Observer View Post
    Actually, it's hot water since I need to drop 15 lbs by Feb.
    The rest of us are not pro racers! So Hot Chocolate and Hot Toddies for us. You also need to do a better job on the Christmas Tree. Looks a little weak this year.

    Come on you know ST, he goes straight from A/C to Heat just to have something to talk about. If not we can burn some firewood in his front yard.
    Currently at Mayo Clinic being tested for a kidney transplant. Donors welcome.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cycle64 View Post
    The rest of us are not pro racers! So Hot Chocolate and Hot Toddies for us. You also need to do a better job on the Christmas Tree. Looks a little weak this year.

    Come on you know ST, he goes straight from A/C to Heat just to have something to talk about. If not we can burn some firewood in his front yard.
    Come on, you know if I have to suffer, you all have to suffer.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  17. #17
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    I would appreciate it if CO and C64 would stay off this thread. This is an important subject that needs to be discussed before the next Sedona RTCA meeting.

    I can never get a straight answer from Justin when he chimes into the discussion so maybe other trail bosses from other areas can respond and tell us if they have the same waiting period when they go in and do necessary maintenance for the FS on trails they have adopted in the Adopt'a'Trail program.

    It just seems like when you are out on a trail where there is a blockage in the trail, if you are the trail boss on that trail you shouldn't have to wait 2 days to fix the trail. Maybe that is the reason the FS won't let me do the work on Anaconda because I would want to keep the trail in great shape and that is not what they want to see happen because it would mean Justin would have to work on trails like Bell Rock Pathway and Deadman's Pass.

    I am curious when Justin thinks the Anaconda re-route will be done around the ruin site and when the trail will be officially adopted? I am also curious what sustainability issues are present on the trail and when those will be addressed. The hydrologist I walked the trail with 3 years ago didn't think there were many issues and it will be interesting what Justin comes up with that Doug didn't notice.

    The reason why I keep coming back to Anaconda is that it is an intermediate trail with very few if any Sedona advanced skill surprises. I think it will be a great addition to the Dry Creek area trail system. It provides a nice way to get from the Dry Creek trails back to the new Vultee Arch/Chuck Wagon trail head. I also works as a connector that makes for several different loop opportunities.

    TD

    TD
    Last edited by traildoc; 12-17-2012 at 08:05 PM.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Observer View Post
    Come on, you know if I have to suffer, you all have to suffer.
    Fine, make my Hot Chocolate sugar free.
    Currently at Mayo Clinic being tested for a kidney transplant. Donors welcome.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    I would appreciate it if CO and C64 would stay off this thread. This is an important subject that needs to be discussed before the next Sedona RTCA meeting.

    I can never get a straight answer from Justin when he chimes into the discussion so maybe other trail bosses from other areas can respond and tell us if they have the same waiting period when they go in and do necessary maintenance for the FS.

    It just seems like when you are out on a trail where there is a blockage in the trail, if you are the trail boss on that trail you shouldn't have to wait 2 days to fix the trail. Maybe that is the reason the FS won't let me do the work on Anaconda because I would want to keep the trail in great shape and that is not what they want to see happen because it would mean Justin would have to work on trails like Bell Rock Pathway and Deadman's Pass.
    Is this not the same type content as in dozens of your other posts? Besides I'm just trying to bring Sugar Free Hot Chocolate and Hot Toddies to the Masses. Your threads are so interesting, it's the best place to insert my commentary.
    Currently at Mayo Clinic being tested for a kidney transplant. Donors welcome.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    I would appreciate it if CO and C64 would stay off this thread. This is an important subject that needs to be discussed before the next Sedona RTCA meeting.

    I can never get a straight answer from Justin when he chimes into the discussion so maybe other trail bosses from other areas can respond and tell us if they have the same waiting period when they go in and do necessary maintenance for the FS.

    It just seems like when you are out on a trail where there is a blockage in the trail, if you are the trail boss on that trail you shouldn't have to wait 2 days to fix the trail. Maybe that is the reason the FS won't let me do the work on Anaconda because I would want to keep the trail in great shape and that is not what they want to see happen because it would mean Justin would have to work on trails like Bell Rock Pathway and Deadman's Pass.
    And MTBR's AZ forum is the best place for this discussion? Why anybody would try and have a civil debate with you on this forum is beyond me. You're incapable.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Observer View Post
    Come on, you know if I have to suffer, you all have to suffer.
    Just so you don;t mix up and get the wrong brand.

    Currently at Mayo Clinic being tested for a kidney transplant. Donors welcome.

  22. #22
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    Doc, I've been monitoring those sections as well. These are pics of the main crossing in Crucifixion Wash after one of the larger monsoon thunderstorm events last summer. Same as your first two pics.

    I believe these structures had more to do with the FS hydrologists concern with enhanced siltation in a tributary to Oak Creek than permits or paperwork issues. Either way, I'm not sure exactly what function they perform. The first doesn't encourage the rider to use it rather than just bypassing it and the other is rather difficult to climb and most folks just dismount and HAB to get to the trail on the other side.

    I get the general idea but they seem overly built. I wonder if the folks in the field had any choice in the matter?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Perfect Day for Adopt'a'Trail Workers to Do Badly Needed Trail Maintenance-crusty1.jpg  

    Perfect Day for Adopt'a'Trail Workers to Do Badly Needed Trail Maintenance-crusty2.jpg  


  23. #23
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    Holy F*ckballs! I remembered my MTBR Password...it's been so long, I had almost forgotten it. But once I saw hot cocoa and hot toddies on the line, I HAD to sign in and give my thumbs up for that. Don't forget to add the mini marshmallows...but not the fugly pastel-ie colored ones. They suck...

    I think we definitely should have a night ride up in DD and meet back at ST's place for front yard fires, hot cocoa, toddies and discussing important matters unrelated to Sedona.
    ST, You do have a hot tub, don't you???
    ~~~

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    Doc, I've been monitoring those sections as well. These are pics of the main crossing in Crucifixion Wash after one of the larger monsoon thunderstorm events last summer. Same as your first two pics.

    I believe these structures had more to do with the FS hydrologists concern with enhanced siltation in a tributary to Oak Creek than permits or paperwork issues. Either way, I'm not sure exactly what function they perform. The first doesn't encourage the rider to use it rather than just bypassing it and the other is rather difficult to climb and most folks just dismount and HAB to get to the trail on the other side.

    I get the general idea but they seem overly built. I wonder if the folks in the field had any choice in the matter?
    rockman:

    Thanks for your prior pictures. I will be taking picures of that crossing for years to come to try and document how those type of crossing work out over the long run compared to what Justin did in the other pictures. It would be interesting to get his professional insight as to thought process that went into those crossings and whether they are working according to the original goal.

    TD

  25. #25
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    TD

    Help me understand your goal.

    You started a thread topic about a issue with a program( that you yourself are not a part of) that may not even exist. Further more you request solutions or ideas to said problem, in a manner that would suggest that you are leading others to believe that this so-called "work authorization period" is the problem and should be reduced to a text msg or phone call.

    Stop trying to create a problem just so you can some how show to anyone, that you have something to contribute.

    From what I personally understand from the Sedona locals and have concluded myself is this.

    Although you may have a really deep desire to be a productive member of the Sedona MTB community, your efforts have forced the FS to be much more regulated and watchful over the land they manage. So no matter how much you post on this forum, email the FS, or force your opinion on others at meetings, I highly doubt your efforts at this time are even being noticed by anyone at the FS. I might even go as far to say that the FS wouldn't trust you with any level of help from you.

    I have personally heard that you have been given an inch and you took a mile from the FS on more than one occasion when it comes to volunteer work on FS land.

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