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  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKA Monkeybutt View Post
    TD,

    Iím only following this thread to find out where Chollaball lives. I use to go to his old place in Chandler and dig through his trash looking for a pair of his wives underwear. He screwed me all up by moving and now I donít know where he lives. I was going to ask him where his new place is but I figured that he might not understand.
    I knew it, sickO. .
    JRA

  2. #152
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    Attached Images Attached Images

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by phillbo View Post
    lmao!!

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    64:

    Thank you for trying to get names out of R&S if I ask him he calls it stalking if you ask him he calls it stalking. Get the names, please. This guy seems to not want to admit he has a hidden agenda to discredit me. What have I done WRONG, where is his mission statement? These viewers want to know the truth.

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  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by el poseur View Post
    Shoot I didn't make the list!
    Yeah, I don't know if it's the "People to Kill" list or the "BFF" list. I'm assuming it's:


  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by el poseur View Post
    Shoot I didn't make the list!
    But what I find amusing is I did!!

    You all should have been witness to that conversation when I petitioned TD to question myself about my myself, it really was freaky to me but TD really could relate and understand an unusual interaction. Go figure that one out!!

    BTW as you can see I was one of first ones to sign!


    TD as requested by you I got that info on R&S and I went ahead and forwarded it to him for fact checking. I suspect it might take a while as I believe providing such information is not very high on his mission statement, this of course is an assumption based purely on his initial reaction to my request being the following statement "I thought my shovel bumm suggestion was a big enough hint, perhaps he needed further clarification on how to perform the work techniques.

    R&S did however offer some further clarifications that might help with the tough spots. He offered "while this technique offers the builder a view of recent work performed, it does however require the mechanical aptitude to "change tools" with out the use of hands. This is required because the trail builder (when he or she encounters a rock or two in the trail path) must immediately contact the USFS with MMS confirmation of said rocks all while simultaneously changing tools in order to ensure maximum effective use of volunteer time!

    I hope this helps you out!

    Has anyone tried mixing in a sparkling beverage to thier Nog?
    Happy trails!
    Last edited by RideNShine; 12-19-2012 at 06:02 PM. Reason: To add topic content

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillbo View Post
    Hey TD... Why are you even *****ing about the approval process in your OP when you have not or probably never will be allowed to adopt a trail?
    Phil:

    I am not 100% sure I won't be able to work as a volunteer for the Coconino National Forest. If I can prove they are discriminating against me after I served my time and that they are allowing the higher up FS employee's friend who has built eight trails that the FS has spent tens of thousands of dollars to bring into a system status maybe they can realize keeping me busy cleaning out system trail water diverters and improving signage is a good thing to save taxpayer dollars.

    On my second day of riding I met up with Justin and TWO archeologists on the Anaconda trail. There were two big newer trucks at the trailhead, that I assume were used to bring the workers to the site.

    I have no clue why you would need an archeologist to drive all the way down from Flagstaff to do an archeology study on the Anaconda trail when they had the previous head of the FS with over 40 years of experience also doing the study.

    It boggles my mind how it has taken three years to get an archeological study on this trail. It seems like if the FS is doubling up on archeologists to do such an easy study on such an easy trail they are not being very efficient. Seems like the Flagstaff archeologist could have been doing a study in Flagstaff. Maybe they have run out of work in Flagstaff, so they sent her down to Sedona to keep her busy.

    Who knows, I doubt Justin will explain, so far he is unwilling to tell us when the new re-route will be done on Anaconda, that he says will only take 30 minutes to complete.

    When is Ride'n'Shine going to tell us who specifically he has been talking to? Seems like you guys are cutting him a lot of slack and are just beating on me for telling the truth. Somehow it doesn't seem right, but what do I know.

    TD

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKA Monkeybutt View Post
    TD,

    Iím only following this thread to find out where Chollaball lives. I use to go to his old place in Chandler and dig through his trash looking for a pair of his wives underwear. He screwed me all up by moving and now I donít know where he lives. I was going to ask him where his new place is but I figured that he might not understand.
    take em, they smell like asparagus

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    Phil:

    I am not 100% sure I won't be able to work as a volunteer for the Coconino National Forest. If I can prove they are discriminating against me after I served my time and that they are allowing the higher up FS employee's friend who has built eight trails that the FS has spent tens of thousands of dollars to bring into a system status maybe they can realize keeping me busy cleaning out system trail water diverters and improving signage is a good thing to save taxpayer dollars.

    On my second day of riding I met up with Justin and TWO archeologists on the Anaconda trail. There were two big newer trucks at the trailhead, that I assume were used to bring the workers to the site.

    I have no clue why you would need an archeologist to drive all the way down from Flagstaff to do an archeology study on the Anaconda trail when they had the previous head of the FS with over 40 years of experience also doing the study.

    It boggles my mind how it has taken three years to get an archeological study on this trail. It seems like if the FS is doubling up on archeologists to do such an easy study on such an easy trail they are not being very efficient. Seems like the Flagstaff archeologist could have been doing a study in Flagstaff. Maybe they have run out of work in Flagstaff, so they sent her down to Sedona to keep her busy.

    Who knows, I doubt Justin will explain, so far he is unwilling to tell us when the new re-route will be done on Anaconda, that he says will only take 30 minutes to complete.

    When is Ride'n'Shine going to tell us who specifically he has been talking to? Seems like you guys are cutting him a lot of slack and are just beating on me for telling the truth. Somehow it doesn't seem right, but what do I know.

    TD

    ^^^^^^^ this is the textbook example of the personality disorder narcisism.
    TD

    What you don't get is while what you say may be true, you are not "speaking the truth" you are only *****ing like a red-headed step-child. And doing it over issues that currently don't impact you!

    I, unlike you in a HUGE way, am not ignorant enough to incriminate myself or others, I will however (when presented with such a choice) choose to not be a victim of some misguided narcissistic agenda.

    To put it more subtlety, I am not willing hang my ass out to dry, to protect anyone but my family and close friends.

  10. #160
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    TD, your post on here just prove to the FS that you are unstable and should not be allowed permission to perform any trail maintenance at any time.


    Think about it. You come off as a nut case. Not someone the FS wants under their umbrella.

  11. #161
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    TD

    After some further thought, I realize you give my suggestion of "taking "YOU" down a few notches and lay low and just ride, ride, ride" no cred. I also realize you have no concept of "in confidence" by continuously asking me to name names! That will never happen!

    What I have decided to do is just let you screw yourself and enjoy a front row seat!!

    BTW WTF have you done lately but be a PITA at the RTCA meetings or whatever they are called.

    Words to live by...A persons efforts to gather information is done in vain if the information falls upon a deaf ear!

    Happy Fails!
    Last edited by RideNShine; 12-19-2012 at 07:29 PM.

  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillbo View Post
    TD, your post on here just prove to the FS that you are unstable and should not be allowed permission to perform any trail maintenance at any time.


    Think about it. You come off as a nut case. Not someone the FS wants under their umbrella.
    Come on Philbo, how am I a nutcase? Let's be specific.

    Here is an example how another Adopt'a'Trail program played out in another national forest:

    A little history on the RNF adopt a trail program.

    5 years ago when the RNF they realized the need for a volunteer coordinator I was able to get that job as a part time 20 hours a week position. I did this job for a year and a half and in that time was able to figure out who all the volunteers where, sign up new recruits ( I didnít actively seek new people, they would call the office looking to help and I would place them) and train them in proper trail maintenance (some of you were in the program) The program grew to about 35 groups and individuals that maintained (for better or worse) about 120 miles of trails Ė not all in the Columbia Basin.

    The RNF discovered that my job type couldnít be used as a year round job and they had to change me back to 6 months at full time. On my 6 months off, I volunteered to come in the office and at least keep track of the hours spent on the trails. I did this for a couple of years.

    When I started building the new house the National Forest Trust had just started working with the RNF and as I went out the door I handed all my files, spreadsheets and training information to the new volunteer coordinator. It was my understanding that the CFT would be taking on the Adopt a Trail program as their number one mission. Boy was I wrong. The NFT went a completely different direction and the program fell to the wayside. The adoptees tried to do what they were supposed to, but their attempts at communication with the NFT and RNF were rarely, if ever, returned. Frustrated, the adoptees just gave up. When I finally found out about this I was pissed off. The response from the FS was that the program was officially shut down because there wasnít anyone to run it. In addition, their interpretation of the rules for volunteers meant that anyone going out on trails had to be properly trained, someone in the group had to have CPR training and a FS employee had to accompany them. And since they didnít have the staff to go out with the groups, they dropped the program.

    So, the RNF says they canít maintain the trails they have, yet are digging in their heals "against" bringing back the best volunteer program the FS had. I think they are coming around, though, and hopefully will resurrect the program. This is one place where we need to get involved. It not only could be at least as big as it once was, it could be so much bigger. I never even tried to recruit groups, and if a full time volunteer coordinator was hired, the program could be double or triple the size that I ran.
    Last edited by traildoc; 12-19-2012 at 11:09 PM.

  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    If I can prove they are discriminating against me after I served my time and that they are allowing the higher up FS employee's friend who has built eight trails that the FS has spent tens of thousands of dollars to bring into a system status maybe they can realize keeping me busy cleaning out system trail water diverters and improving signage is a good thing to save taxpayer dollars.



    I have no clue why you would need an archeologist to drive all the way down from Flagstaff to do an archeology study on the Anaconda trail when they had the previous head of the FS with over 40 years of experience also doing the study.


    TD

    TD
    I was compelled to single these two statement out and offer a comment;

    The FS was looking to make an example of someone to try and put an end to the unauthorized trail building, you admitted to such activity (no matter how small) and became the example. The FS may be well aware of who is working for them now, and what they have done in the past but if they have no evidence of it, they cannot prosecute. Pretty simple and I see no discrimination in their actions then and I see no reason why they should need to resort to it in the future.

    To try and understand why the gvnmt operates the way it does is asking to become insane!

  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    Come on Philbo, how am I a nutcase? Let's be specific.


  15. #165
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    Listen!

    Quote Originally Posted by RideNShine View Post
    TD
    I was compelled to single these two statement out and offer a comment;

    The FS was looking to make an example of someone to try and put an end to the unauthorized trail building, you admitted to such activity (no matter how small) and became the example. The FS may be well aware of who is working for them now, and what they have done in the past but if they have no evidence of it, they cannot prosecute. Pretty simple and I see no discrimination in their actions then and I see no reason why they should need to resort to it in the future.

    To try and understand why the gvnmt operates the way it does is asking to become insane!
    Good points Shine. Since I have been corresponding with head of the FS about this potential discrimination issue, she says she is not going to discuss disciplinary issues with her employees with me via email. I told her I understood why she was unable to discuss those private issues with me.

    We both know she has to send my emails up to a higher authority, so she isn't accused of playing favorites to her fellow employee and her friend. If upon their investigation they find no evidence of the friend doing anything wrong then I assume they will go to the next step. I would assume a case such as this could get a little messy, if they are in fact discriminating against me and letting the other person have cart blanch on his activities.

    Just think how Justin feels about this situation. He has been wanting to be promoted to a higher position with the FS, he knows the score, and don't you think he is wondering what is going to happen?

    Time will tell how this plays out and in the mean time I will ride with my friends and let Heather know where I see maintenance issues on the system trails, that I can't tell Adrian about because Heather doesn't want to expose her to this difficult situation.

    Discrimination is not something to take lightly, if it is in fact happening at this point in time. Making an example out of me for working on Tea Cup was one thing, but the FS lied about me being found guilty for building a user-built trail was not true. So now we may find out what the truth really is.

    Can't you see being the trail boss on Anaconda will cure my disorder and prove to the FS I am a dedicated volunteer wanting to keep Anaconda in a pristine condition. I could careless what Jennifer's friend has done as long as I am given permission to work on that trail. That would be funny if they had a FS employee out with me to learn how proper trail maintenance should be done.

    Check out the Areie trail and tell me what you would have done differently in the construction of that trail. I think the routing was great, but Fat Tire Dave thinks otherwise.

    Jennifer's friend routed the trail, so I trust his judgement. Now if we could just keep horses off of it, it might stand a chance to survive this winter.

    Do you have any idea why the FS allowed Western Civilization to be included on the new Bear Tooth map? That would be a great addition no doubt, but why take off Pyramid? The Pyramid trail has been in existence for hundreds of years. How could you not have had a trail there? There is an huge Indian ruin on top of the Pyramid formation, how else would they have gotten down to Oak Creel to get their water and fish for dinner?

    TD

    Good time for viewing:
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    Last edited by traildoc; 12-19-2012 at 08:51 PM.

  16. #166
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    Rock on, you cRaZy mofo!
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

  17. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrwhlr View Post
    Rock on, you cRaZy mofo!
    Mrwhlr:

    Thanks for the encouragement. I just think picking on old people because we want to keep our beloved trails in good condition and not being given permission to clean out rocks from a water diverter is kind of stupid. The water diveter was put in to divert water. When it gets clogged with rocks and other debris, it should be cleaned out and not left to be clogged to create more erosion that could easily be avoided if it were clear.

    I am not asking to build a new downhill trail like freak'a'zoid wants to build to replace a great trail that has already been built and is one of the most unbelievable trails in the whole world.

    Freak'a'zoid has his hands full building a 25 yard re-route that potentially won't be rideable by 95% of the users. Let him get that section rideable by 70% of the users before we let him loose on creating something new. If only 5% of the masses are only going to be able to ride something he wants, I think that might be a future hot potato, but what do I know?

    TD

  18. #168
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    TD

    Are you serious when you say you are willing to sue the USFS for discrimination if they don't allow you to adopt the Anaconda trail?

    Well having heard that from you, I'm out!

  19. #169
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    Any Ideas Where These Were Taken??????????????

    Quote Originally Posted by RideNShine View Post
    TD

    Are you serious when you say you are willing to sue the USFS for discrimination if they don't allow you to adopt the Anaconda trail?

    Well having heard that from you, I'm out!
    Ride'n'Shine:

    Where do you come up with this stupid stuff? The FS is not stupid, they know when they have been strung along, but now it's getting interesting, right. If what I am talking about has any merit it could be a mess.We are all trying to make Sedona a great place to hike and mountain bike. We don't need any big publicity event.

    All I want to do is to be able to clean out water diverters when they get plugged up and I want to be able to ride some of my favorite user-built trails.any idea where these were taken?????????????????
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Perfect Day for Adopt'a'Trail Workers to Do Badly Needed Trail Maintenance-1.jpg  

    Perfect Day for Adopt'a'Trail Workers to Do Badly Needed Trail Maintenance-2.jpg  

    Perfect Day for Adopt'a'Trail Workers to Do Badly Needed Trail Maintenance-3.jpg  


  20. #170
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    I'm no moderator, but some of you guys need to back off. This thread is like an internet version of wolves annoying prey. I'm not saying that to blow hot air up TD's clacker.

    The concept of individual trail stewards makes sense. It allows cooperation between/among groups on bigger projects and regular maintenance on every trail. Steward = stewards where the trail dictates (longer, more difficult/multiple access, more drainage issues etc).

    What also makes sense is an agreement that reporting work to the LM via email (pics and text) is acceptable for all but the big jobs. If you have to wait for staff to come and inspect the rock you want to move or the drain you want to enhance, then you don't get anything done. I realise you are in a dry area (where water is still the number 1 cause of erosion) and ours is pretty wet, but your length of trails far outweighs the impact of our deluges now we are catching up on overall trail maintenance after years of degradation.

    What seems to work best for everyone here is that the trailworkers take as much pressure off the LM by demanding as little of their time as possible, but also keeping the lines of information open, especially in picture. To make that possible and lucky for us, the LM contracted an experienced trail assessor to GPS log, way point and list repairs required to have every trail authorised and added to the official trail map. Very few were listed for closure and no trail must be closed before an alternate and sustainable alternative is open.

    Now when we go out to work on a site, all we have to do is what is expected or better at each way point. If we clear mineral or organic debris from drains on the way, then great; what is good for the park is OK and trails are part of the park. That obviously includes all the illegal trails, which make up 90% of the system in this National Park and are all mapped as above.

    We may not have as many or lengthy trails as you guys, but we just do not have enough experienced builders to allow groups to go out in haphazard clusters to make their own interpretation of the recommended modification for way point x and take a shot at the job. The LM wants it done properly. The only sensible system is adopt a trail. Experienced trailworkers select their trail and arrange their own work schedule, tools and their own team.

    The system should work in any moderate to large trail network. It is worth considering, not the least because it really draws the team together from LM down.

  21. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    I want to be able to ride some of my favorite user-built trails.any idea where these were taken?????????????????
    A much better game to play. Some of Sedona's finest but curiously not up for adoption. Yet. At least not the first two, the last one is an official system trail built by mountain bikers. I like the original name: Sechaun Chicken.

  22. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    A much better game to play. Some of Sedona's finest but curiously not up for adoption. Yet. At least not the first two, the last one is an official system trail built by mountain bikers. I like the original name: Sechaun Chicken.
    Yep, the original name was better but the current one is more fitting. I rode it yesterday. The dirt, sorry soil, was slow rolling but the corners were magic!

  23. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ridnparadise View Post
    I'm no moderator, but some of you guys need to back off. This thread is like an internet version of wolves annoying prey. I'm not saying that to blow hot air up TD's clacker.

    The concept of individual trail stewards makes sense. It allows cooperation between/among groups on bigger projects and regular maintenance on every trail. Steward = stewards where the trail dictates (longer, more difficult/multiple access, more drainage issues etc).

    What also makes sense is an agreement that reporting work to the LM via email (pics and text) is acceptable for all but the big jobs. If you have to wait for staff to come and inspect the rock you want to move or the drain you want to enhance, then you don't get anything done. I realise you are in a dry area (where water is still the number 1 cause of erosion) and ours is pretty wet, but your length of trails far outweighs the impact of our deluges now we are catching up on overall trail maintenance after years of degradation.

    What seems to work best for everyone here is that the trailworkers take as much pressure off the LM by demanding as little of their time as possible, but also keeping the lines of information open, especially in picture. To make that possible and lucky for us, the LM contracted an experienced trail assessor to GPS log, way point and list repairs required to have every trail authorised and added to the official trail map. Very few were listed for closure and no trail must be closed before an alternate and sustainable alternative is open.

    Now when we go out to work on a site, all we have to do is what is expected or better at each way point. If we clear mineral or organic debris from drains on the way, then great; what is good for the park is OK and trails are part of the park. That obviously includes all the illegal trails, which make up 90% of the system in this National Park and are all mapped as above.

    We may not have as many or lengthy trails as you guys, but we just do not have enough experienced builders to allow groups to go out in haphazard clusters to make their own interpretation of the recommended modification for way point x and take a shot at the job. The LM wants it done properly. The only sensible system is adopt a trail. Experienced trailworkers select their trail and arrange their own work schedule, tools and their own team.

    The system should work in any moderate to large trail network. It is worth considering, not the least because it really draws the team together from LM down.
    ON TOPIC , ON TOPIC , ON TOPIC , ON TOPIC , ON TOPIC , ON TOPIC , ON TOPIC , ON TOPIC , ON TOPIC , ON TOPIC , ON TOPIC , ON TOPIC , ON TOPIC , ON TOPIC , ON TOPIC , ON TOPIC , ON TOPIC , ON TOPIC , ON TOPIC , ON TOPIC , ON TOPIC ,

    Thank-you Rip

  24. #174
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    Heater does not seem to be working well at the office this morning. Think management would object to Hot Toddies over Hot Chocolate at the work site?
    Currently at Mayo Clinic being tested for a kidney transplant. Donors welcome.

  25. #175
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    To hell with the internet. I am out the door and headed down the hill to Sedona. Time to ride, because that is what it's all about.

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