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  1. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    77:

    Thanks for the the insightful post. Here is the situation I may still be dealing with in Sedona. I did my time being banned for six months from the AZ Northern National Forest, I paid my $1,000 fine before the judge asked for the fine. I have paid my debt to society. I was told by the Federal attorney that my class 2 misdemeanor would not affect my employment status and I would be treated as a regular citizen once I finished my banning.

    Now in Sedona we have a situation where the number one trail builder may be still working for the FS doing extensive FS new trail builds, re-routes, trail improvements and trail enhancements.

    I have been corresponding with the head of the FS about this issue to see if there is an aspect of discrimination to the FS having the biggest Sedona trail builder working for them when all I did was a small trail improvement on the Tea Cup trail with implied consent and other FS new trail projects like Aerie.

    The head of the FS went silent when I asked her if she knew about this trail building rockstar. He has done more for Sedona mountain biking and hiking trails then anyone in our history. He should be given the trail building of the year award and there should be benches with his name on it at every great view point of the trails he has built.

    Here is the problem, when I rode the Chapel trail yesterday to get to Little Horse trail to ride the White Line trail, I noticed rocks in the Chapel trail water diverters that were blocking the function of the water diverter. I wanted to stop and clear the water diverter to keep the water from running down the trail and expediting the erosion of the trail.

    I know I am not allowed to do necessary maintenance on system trails because the head of the FS says noway no how I have shown remorse for my previous Tea Cup work, so I am banned from doing needed maintenance and the trails suffer because I can't call Ride'n'Shine to do the work because he won't adopt any trails even that one which is close to the paved road.

    The head of the FS won't let me email Adrian who's job it is to take care of Sedona trails because I keep asking her if the guy who built all the Sedona trails is still doing needed maintenance. Adrian said she was OK with me adopting Anaconda, but I had to get the ranger in charge to OK my being a trail boss. I didn't get that OK, so now the Sedona trails have to suffer because I can't clear the water diverters when I see a drainage problem.

    My point is that water diverters are put in for a reason. When they are clogged with rocks and debris they should be cleared to reduce erosion. I have the training and desire to clear those clogged diverters but for some reason the head of the FS doesn't believe I have showed enough remorse to be allowed to clear the debris while she let's the guy deserving a medal possibly still work on the trails.

    Something seems screwy to me, and so far I can't figure it out, but when I do MTBR viewers will be the first to know what I find out. This valuable AZ forum has the transparency we all are looking for.

    TD
    Please stay on topic TD: Brandy or Bourbon?
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  2. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Observer View Post
    Please stay on topic TD: Brandy or Bourbon?
    Get both?

    My parents made a pretty sick blackberry wine that I've been hitting pretty hard. Usually, I don't care for wine.

  3. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post

    Something seems screwy to me, and so far I can't figure it out, but when I do MTBR viewers will be the first to know what I find out. This valuable AZ forum has the transparency we all are looking for.

    TD
    Take a hint.. We don't care.

  4. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by RideNShine View Post
    TD

    Try and understand this analogy...You made yourself the Al Capone of Sedona trail builders!

    Let me explain,
    It was not all the "social trails" that locals "rode and walked into exisistance" that the USFS had a problem with in the perverbial straw that broke the camels back, it was your online map that pushed them over the edge. This is the general understanding I have gathered from the Sedona locals and authorities. You were just so charged up to be the MAN who was doing what he felt the USFS neglected to do and that was to create a map of all the trails in Sedona in order to improve the user experience and help visitors from getting lost!! This problem was real and needed to be taken care of. But in your haste and enthusiasm you neglected one simple fact....it's not your land to manage nor your job to do and when it hit the Internet the FS lost thier ability to effectively manage the land the way the policy that their authority had mandated. Here is the catch! What you did wasn't illegal it just wasn't policy and the USFS may have been put in a tough spot with the online map. To add fuel to this fire you went crazy with MTBR invites of tours of the trails on your map. Again nothing wrong with doing that for free or for favors, it's just not activity the USFS can support. Then you threw a powder keg on this fire by, providing your map to local bike shops that would take it and again nothing really illegal here but yet again this is activity that the USFS cannot support.

    So what does an organization have to do to gain some sort of management back, eliminate the problem. Do not feel you have been mistreated by the hands of the FS when you yourself admitted to the unauthorized trail work. The (as you call him) #1 trail builder you speak of probably never ADMITTED to any unauthorized trail work (i.e. no evidence) and since you were the thorn in thier side, you became an example.

    Most locals feel; while your intentions were not wrong, your actions in turn forced the hand to take action and this has set back the growth of the sport in Sedona.

    It's your choice and freedom to force yourself upon the establishment, just remember your actions might have consequences you are unaware of or feel unwarranted simply because the policy the USFS has to follow is in conflict.

    Happy trails!
    Ride'n'Shine:

    Once again you are not being specific. Who are these individuals you are referring to. Yes I did tell Jennifer I did the work on Tea Cup that I thought I had implied consent to do. The project took about 15 minutes to complete, so even though it was badly needed for guys like you to have a chance to ride it wasn't a big project.

    You have said nothing else I have done is illegal. My map is the best mountain bike map in Sedona. Bear Tooth has the second best map, but you can't use it on a SMART PHONE.

    Bear Tooth has stepped up their mapping efforts because of me being their major competition. Look at the first edition of their new format. It is larger so that trails like Basalt and Kiabab can be shown with some clarity, but they have no names attached like mine has. So even though you see trail lines you have no clue what you are riding on.

    Take a look at their suggested rides. They are described with a bunch of our very special trail names not just one name like Woahey suggests.

    You have to understand the Sedona mountain bike scene is evolving, you say it's going backwards. OTE probably had over 1,700 bike rentals last year. Mountain Bike Heaven had half that amount, so how is mountain biking going backwards? If you were to ask Fat Tire Dave or Jimmy at Bike and Bean do you think their rentals are down over the previous year? Please answer that question.

    Once again you make up stuff to match your agenda. What is your mission statement anyway. Everyone knows what mine is, but what is yours (let's ride the trails and never maintain them). In case you didn't figure it out yet you are not invited to the 77 Ranger party I am bringing the roast to.

    TD

  5. #130
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    He's not invited to a party he'd never go to anyway? Ouch, man.

  6. #131
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    TD

    For once pull your head out of your own agenda!!!

    You set this user group MTBrs back in thier relations with the FS.

    I have no doubt one bit that bike shop biz is up, and you had something to do with it in some way.

    How can I put this in a manner you can understand, if you tried to use my land in a manner that I didn't want, I would do whatever I could to stop you!

    Even if you do not understand what you did wrong, you have to ask yourself a simple question, that need not be answered on this forum is this;

    Have you misused in any manner USFS land that you have not owned up to in the past?

    If so then there is ALLWAYS the risk that they may have evidence of it. If not then no worries.

    I absolutely believe they have evidence on most of the trail building public, but they do not need to act on it until they are either forced to or have no choice due to public pressure.

    The locals have been riding and walking trails into existance for decades, and I'm sure back before your online map stunt the USFS was a lot more tolerant of this activity simply because it filled a need for more trail due to increasing trail activity and traffic.

    On topic, I recall you butting your inconsiderate self into the Nog festivities with gifts of roast beast, but I don't recall you being invited.

    TD FYI In developing important social skills always know your position, my invitation came by association.

    Don't even try to bury the pervebial hatchet in the Nogfest!!!

  7. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by RideNShine View Post
    TD

    For once pull your head out of your own agenda!!!

    You set this user group MTBrs back in thier relations with the FS.

    I have no doubt one bit that bike shop biz is up, and you had something to do with it in some way.

    How can I put this in a manner you can understand, if you tried to use my land in a manner that I didn't want, I would do whatever I could to stop you!

    Even if you do not understand what you did wrong, you have to ask yourself a simple question, that need not be answered on this forum is this;

    Have you misused in any manner USFS land that you have not owned up to in the past?

    If so then there is ALLWAYS the risk that they may have evidence of it. If not then no worries.

    I absolutely believe they have evidence on most of the trail building public, but they do not need to act on it until they are either forced to or have no choice due to public pressure.

    The locals have been riding and walking trails into existance for decades, and I'm sure back before your online map stunt the USFS was a lot more tolerant of this activity simply because it filled a need for more trail due to increasing trail activity and traffic.

    On topic, I recall you butting your inconsiderate self into the Nog festivities with gifts of roast beast, but I don't recall you being invited.

    TD FYI In developing important social skills always know your position, my invitation came by association.

    Don't even try to bury the pervebial hatchet in the Nogfest!!!
    R&S:

    Great dodge. We need specifics not a bunch of mumbo jumbo. There have been several hundreds of new trails put on the Sedona public land in the last 400 years. What relevance does one trail have over another trail?

    My Westerner buddies have a bunch of user-built trails they hike w/o posting on the internet. Are they breaking the rules when they share those trails with their friends?

    I share the mountain biking trails with MTBR viewers. There is nothing illegal about that, right? What is the difference?

    The FS claims there are 600,000 trail users coming to Sedona each year. At tomorrow's meeting we are being asked what percentage are hikers, bikers or equestrians. Why is that question being asked? We all know the majority of those users are actually walkers who step no more than 500' into the red dirt. When those parking lots are totally filled, and people are double parking, I guess there is a need to make more Bell Rock parking lots, right. Is that where we are going with the whole RTCA process, more large parking lots for the walkers. Parking lots are expensive, how much are they spending on the new one one Vultee Arch Rd.?

    There is a guy at the RTCA meeting that wants a bigger parking lot at West Fork and Midgely Bridge. Do you think he is going to get his bigger parking lot? I say NO WAY. The FS has already determined that the size of the parking lot limits the size of the user group due to environment damage concerns. Too many walking or hiking tourons on the trail destroy the trail and the environment.

    Try to be specific as to who you are talking to.

  8. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    R&S:

    Great dodge. We need specifics not a bunch of mumbo jumbo.
    Kettle meet Pot.
    Currently at Mayo Clinic being tested for a kidney transplant. Donors welcome.

  9. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    R&S:

    Great dodge. We need specifics not a bunch of mumbo jumbo. There have been several hundreds of new trails put on the Sedona public land in the last 400 years. What relevance does one trail have over another trail?

    My Westerner buddies have a bunch of user-built trails they hike w/o posting on the internet. Are they breaking the rules when they share those trails with their friends?

    I share the mountain biking trails with MTBR viewers. There is nothing illegal about that, right? What is the difference?

    The FS claims there are 600,000 trail users coming to Sedona each year. At tomorrow's meeting we are being asked what percentage are hikers, bikers or equestrians. Why is that question being asked? We all know the majority of those users are actually walkers who step no more than 500' into the red dirt. When those parking lots are totally filled, and people are double parking, I guess there is a need to make more Bell Rock parking lots, right. Is that where we are going with the whole RTCA process, more large parking lots for the walkers. Parking lots are expensive, how much are they spending on the new one one Vultee Arch Rd.?

    There is a guy at the RTCA meeting that wants a bigger parking lot at West Fork and Midgely Bridge. Do you think he is going to get his bigger parking lot? I say NO WAY. The FS has already determined that the size of the parking lot limits the size of the user group due to environment damage concerns. Too many walking or hiking tourons on the trail destroy the trail and the environment.

    Try to be specific as to who you are talking to.
    Quit being such a wet noodle and get the phuck back on topic.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  10. #135
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    TD

    WTF does any of what you said in your last post have to do with what I am so desperately trying to tell you.

    Did you ever consider I may just have family that work for the USFS and BLM?

  11. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by RideNShine View Post
    TD

    WTF does any of what you said in your last post have to do with what I am so desperately trying to tell you.

    Did you ever consider I may just have family that work for the USFS and BLM?
    What are their names, how long have they been with the service, do they ride bikes or are they hikers, what size shoe doe they wear, do they prefer Hot Coco or Hot Toddie?

    PS: Which of the 10 Nog recipes do they prefer?
    Currently at Mayo Clinic being tested for a kidney transplant. Donors welcome.

  12. #137
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    you clowns are still knocking heads on this thread?

    It was over for the masses when Su Ling left the room.

  13. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by chollaball View Post
    you clowns are still knocking heads on this thread?

    It was over for the masses when Su Ling left the room.
    Just wasting company time is all.
    Currently at Mayo Clinic being tested for a kidney transplant. Donors welcome.

  14. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cycle64 View Post
    Just wasting company time is all.
    Wasting time....like a bawss?

  15. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy_E View Post
    Wasting time....like a bawss?
    Who are you and why are you stalking me?
    Currently at Mayo Clinic being tested for a kidney transplant. Donors welcome.

  16. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cycle64 View Post
    What are their names, how long have they been with the service, do they ride bikes or are they hikers, what size shoe doe they wear, do they prefer Hot Coco or Hot Toddie?

    PS: Which of the 10 Nog recipes do they prefer?
    C64

    Lets just say they enjoy Nog and their user experience is always good!

    Words to live by.... It's more effective to influence change in those who make policy than to influence those who follow policy, to not follow it.

  17. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by RideNShine View Post
    C64

    Lets just say they enjoy Nog and their user experience is always good!

    Words to live by.... It's more effective to influence change in those who make policy than to influence those who follow policy, to not follow it.
    64:

    Thank you for trying to get names out of R&S if I ask him he calls it stalking if you ask him he calls it stalking. Get the names, please. This guy seems to not want to admit he has a hidden agenda to discredit me. What have I done WRONG, where is his mission statement? These viewers want to know the truth.

    traildoc, swacer, Spoonman, JahSonora, AKA Monkeybutt, xbikewi, BlackCanyonTrailJunkie, RideNShine, Eazy_E, Phillbo, DustyChap, wantadhbike, supermoto, MudMan27, Flying Cactus, idaz, wjabboud, DurtGurl, _dragon, 2BeerJoe, r_methodair, IMBA south west, SugarHigh, rockman, getbent1, funboarder1971, DesertDog, sjcoffey, bondo, Casual Observer, GR1822, tysonnemb, vinnyl26, aevanlloyd, longhairmike, Douger-1, WOOD MASTER, dh'n az, azepicriderandrunner, ckeeler, thrash, azdog, raider0515, RobZona, Fureak, ECEGatorTuro, zona98, TurtleGerl, govertime, CBizzie, Yardstick, cgcharlie, bikebean

  18. #143
    Meatbomb
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    Thats it ... I'm off to dig through my trash to make sure my neighbor has not used my can. If he has, I'll force him to move 50 feet away.



    Why does everyone need a mission statement?

  19. #144
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    TD
    My agenda or "mission statement" as you call it doesn't exist. I have no plans to change policies that I am not required to follow, I let those who are involved with it worry about it.

    What concerns me about you is your ignorance. You can dismiss everything I have said in this thread, and it doesn't take away the fact that the FS has you in their crosshairs just waiting to drop an even bigger hammer upon you if you become too much of a problem for them. Knowing your personality type, you will never heed the advise of others and will push along unaware you are screwing yourself.

    I don't have to discredit you, you're doing fine all by yourself!

    Nog it does a body good!!

  20. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillbo View Post
    Why does everyone need a mission statement?
    It leads to an enhanced user experience?

  21. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    64:

    These viewers want to know the truth.

    traildoc, swacer, Spoonman, JahSonora, AKA Monkeybutt, xbikewi, BlackCanyonTrailJunkie, RideNShine, Eazy_E, Phillbo, DustyChap, wantadhbike, supermoto, MudMan27, Flying Cactus, idaz, wjabboud, DurtGurl, _dragon, 2BeerJoe, r_methodair, IMBA south west, SugarHigh, rockman, getbent1, funboarder1971, DesertDog, sjcoffey, bondo, Casual Observer, GR1822, tysonnemb, vinnyl26, aevanlloyd, longhairmike, Douger-1, WOOD MASTER, dh'n az, azepicriderandrunner, ckeeler, thrash, azdog, raider0515, RobZona, Fureak, ECEGatorTuro, zona98, TurtleGerl, govertime, CBizzie, Yardstick, cgcharlie, bikebean
    TD,

    Iím only following this thread to find out where Chollaball lives. I use to go to his old place in Chandler and dig through his trash looking for a pair of his wives underwear. He screwed me all up by moving and now I donít know where he lives. I was going to ask him where his new place is but I figured that he might not understand.

  22. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKA Monkeybutt View Post
    TD,
    I use to go to his old place in Chandler and dig through his trash looking for a pair of his wives underwear. He screwed me all up by moving and now I donít know where he lives.
    Why would you do such a thing?


  23. #148
    Meatbomb
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    Ha... Shallow Hal ... Good flick !

  24. #149
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    Good one EasyE!!

    Those in the know, know just how fitting that analogy is!!!

  25. #150
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    Hey TD... Why are you even *****ing about the approval process in your OP when you have not or probably never will be allowed to adopt a trail? Why not focus on something that will have an impact on your life like that cure for your mental illness you mentioned your brother in law was working on.. Hows that working for you ?

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