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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillbo View Post
    So TD, what are you looking for when you search through your neighbors trash?
    Phil:

    I did have a problem tenant once who was putting his trash in my other tenants garbage. I went over to the complex and sorted through each tenants garbage to find out if what they were telling me was true. I found mail addressed to the offending tenant in several tenants garbage cans.

    When I asked the offending tenant to PLEASE stop putting his garbage into the other tenants garbage he told me the items addressed to him where not his and he never put garbage into any of the other tenants garbage cans.

    I told the tenant if he wanted to break his lease and move out early to let me know, I would be happy to let him out of his lease early. Fortunately he took me up on my offer and moved to a unit about 50 yards from mine. The owner of that unit often complains to me what a pain in the as$ that tenant is. His wife divorced him and his only friend is his barking dog.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by RideNShine View Post
    Rock

    Having been on the receiving end of some pretty F'ed up mean spirited chat with TD. So your statement is not completely true.

    On another note TD has very little respect for just about anyone, and doesn't know where to draw the line when it comes to him defending an awkward or unpopular opinion.
    TD has an emotional connection to the red rocks and trails that you cannot possibly fathom. I'm sorry he digs through your trash and you had to move because he was stalking your wife but I have not seen the chit chat you speak of.

    Yes, the multiple postings are annoying and he's clearly trying to exert some influence on the sedona trail scene when it appears nobody is listening. Whether or not that is true, IMO he has earned the right to do so.

    How about posting some stoke for a change instead of your next rebuttal to Traildoc?

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    Phil:

    I did have a problem tenant once who was putting his trash in my other tenants garbage. I went over to the complex and sorted through each tenants garbage to find out if what they were telling me was true. I found mail addressed to the offending tenant in several tenants garbage cans.

    When I asked the offending tenant to PLEASE stop putting his garbage into the other tenants garbage he told me the items addressed to him where not his and he never put garbage into any of the other tenants garbage cans.

    I told the tenant if he wanted to break his lease and move out early to let me know, I would be happy to let him out of his lease early. Fortunately he took me up on my offer and moved to a unit about 50 yards from mine. The owner of that unit often complains to me what a pain in the as$ that tenant is. His wife divorced him and his only friend is his barking dog.
    I really hope you're pulling a fast one on us. But on the off chance this is actually true.....can you say "creepy?"
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cycle64 View Post
    to celebrate the Mayan's being wrong after the first of the year.
    C64

    I don't think the Mayan's are wrong! Their calendar is accurate to the second on a 5000 year cycle, modern man couldn't make a one year calendar that didn't need a 1 day adjustment over a four year period.

    You have to give props to them, to see and calculate a repetitive cycle in the solar system!! Hell modern man thought the earth was flat and the center of the universe just 200 years ago!

    Happy 0000!!!!

    And yes I have plans for next year! Think I will look into how one would go about predicting when exactly water will be falling from the sky again so that way I can share such wisdom with TD. That way he can give the trail bosses 3 days notice for premium trail maintainence conditions!

    What a country!

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    TD has an emotional connection to the red rocks and trails that you cannot possibly fathom. I'm sorry he digs through your trash and you had to move because he was stalking your wife but I have not seen the chit chat you speak of.

    Yes, the multiple postings are annoying and he's clearly trying to exert some influence on the sedona trail scene when it appears nobody is listening. Whether or not that is true, IMO he has earned the right to do so.

    How about posting some stoke for a change instead of your next rebuttal to Traildoc?
    Rock:

    Thanks for you post. Ride'n'Shine has definitely turned the tide against me. I have lost all my credibility with the people who use to come visit me. The guy who was heading here from Boise ID just emailed me and said he is cancelling his visit. My friend from Vancouver who is staying here for three weeks also cancelled and is heading to South Mountain for the rest of his vacation.

    The world is falling apart for me. I have no friends anymore due to Ride'n'Shine's efforts, whoa is me

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by RideNShine View Post

    Propper prior planning prevents piss poor performance!

    Words to live by TD, your BS 2 day wait problem is solved!!
    See post #2


    He only likes to play by HIS rules...

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    TD has an emotional connection to the red rocks and trails that you cannot possibly fathom. I'm sorry he digs through your trash and you had to move because he was stalking your wife but I have not seen the chit chat you speak of.

    Yes, the multiple postings are annoying and he's clearly trying to exert some influence on the sedona trail scene when it appears nobody is listening. Whether or not that is true, IMO he has earned the right to do so.

    How about posting some stoke for a change instead of your next rebuttal to Traildoc?
    Rock

    This connection with the red rocks you say TD has, I have never seen. In fact when the subject of vortexes, chakras and spiritual energy comes up he kinda shakes his head and chuckles, cause he thinks its nonsense. As for not seeing the chat I speak of its because I had the moderators lock the thread due to wrongful personal information posted. I am not asking anyone to confirm what I say is true, trust me in that it is.

    I do not find his multiple thread starting annoying at all, in fact it peaks my curiosity a bit.

    I don't think anyone has the right to create a problem with a program in order to change policy, especially when that person has no involvement with said program.

    Since TD's return to Sedona I have not bothered with most of what he posts about, until this thread.

    I still find his interest in my personal life and his need to guilt me into volunteering my efforts creepy to say the least.

  8. #108
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    Caution;  Merge;  Workers Ahead! Did TD just trick me into writing the longest post of my life????????????????

    Well, if we're going to get all rational in a TD post here is my take on the legendary TrailDoc. I think that John F has done a ton of work for Sedona that I appropriate. His trail improvements are actually improvements and not just sanitation e.g. Dan O/tps/sector25s illegal work on rocky ridge, schultz, sunset, and oldham. I've only had a few encounters with John in real life and he's an alright dude. He even gave me a shuttle for a ride once. I haven't ridden with him but by all accounts he's a strong rider. I've ridden with his wife a couple times (no this is not some weird backhanded joke) and she is a super nice woman and a good rider, I can't imagine she would settle for marriage with an actual jerk.

    The guy that he plays on the internet is pretty gross. TD always needs the spotlight and for people to justify his actions for him. If anyone disagrees with him about anything TD can't actually discuss what they don't agree about and instead just condescends with accusations about them being lazy or not a skilled enough rider to have an opinion. I think that most of the “TD haters” are just tired of seeing him demand attention and lash out at people that don't give him the kudos he wants. I think its pretty fun to hijack his thread with NOG, he's hijacked countless other threads demanding attention so its fun to see him get so upset when we play his own game on him.

    Maybe I have his online persona all wrong and he's actually a faux-jerk genius and he's just playing us all to draw attention to Sedona. Or maybe he doesn't understand that he's talking to real people on mtbr that appear lazy to him because they don't need to post on mtbr every time they perform a trail improvement, legally or not so legally. This is a pretty good listen and I think the online form of TD fits in here somewhere: Legacy of a jerk

    Keep it up John, hang it up TD.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by m77ranger View Post
    Well, if we're going to get all rational in a TD post here is my take on the legendary TrailDoc. I think that John F has done a ton of work for Sedona that I appropriate. His trail improvements are actually improvements and not just sanitation e.g. Dan O/tps/sector25s illegal work on rocky ridge, schultz, sunset, and oldham. I've only had a few encounters with John in real life and he's an alright dude. He even gave me a shuttle for a ride once. I haven't ridden with him but by all accounts he's a strong rider. I've ridden with his wife a couple times (no this is not some weird backhanded joke) and she is a super nice woman and a good rider, I can't imagine she would settle for marriage with an actual jerk.

    The guy that he plays on the internet is pretty gross. TD always needs the spotlight and for people to justify his actions for him. If anyone disagrees with him about anything TD can't actually discuss what they don't agree about and instead just condescends with accusations about them being lazy or not a skilled enough rider to have an opinion. I think that most of the “TD haters” are just tired of seeing him demand attention and lash out at people that don't give him the kudos he wants. I think its pretty fun to hijack his thread with NOG, he's hijacked countless other threads demanding attention so its fun to see him get so upset when we play his own game on him.

    Maybe I have his online persona all wrong and he's actually a faux-jerk genius and he's just playing us all to draw attention to Sedona. Or maybe he doesn't understand that he's talking to real people on mtbr that appear lazy to him because they don't need to post on mtbr every time they perform a trail improvement, legally or not so legally. This is a pretty good listen and I think the online form of TD fits in here somewhere: Legacy of a jerk

    Keep it up John, hang it up TD.
    thanks for the referral to the website. one of my favorite books.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    Rock:

    Thanks for you post. Ride'n'Shine has definitely turned the tide against me. I have lost all my credibility with the people who use to come visit me. The guy who was heading here from Boise ID just emailed me and said he is cancelling his visit. My friend from Vancouver who is staying here for three weeks also cancelled and is heading to South Mountain for the rest of his vacation.

    The world is falling apart for me. I have no friends anymore due to Ride'n'Shine's efforts, whoa is me
    I could only imagine having that much power in your world TD!

    Seriously though TD, if your friends have cancled their plans because of this thread, you need better friends!! My friend Jeff (that you mentioned buying you a meal) didn't cancle his plans to visit when I told him I was rider down! He came he saw he rode!! No strings attached no loss of faith.

    TD you are one helluva mountain biker, and you know the trails as well as the next local. You ride with visitors and treat them to some serious Sedona stoke (lately without the work string attached) that by themselves would not have experienced. I commend you on your passion and not one single rider will argue it! But.... Be it online or in person, you have no respect or consideration of others that have limited experience. They are peons that need to pay their dues before you would consider them as peers. Instead of asking for a riders MTB resume so you can decide weather they are worthy of you time, try and just get to know them using the sport as common ground to build upon. MTB is different for many riders and their involment level is just as diverse.

    My intentions in this thread were not to alienate you. It is simply to show this topics true nature...trying to create a problem in a policy in order to initiate change to a program that you are not involved in.

  11. #111
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    If TD wants Sedona attention! He should praise our efforts, as Nog discussion has generated tons more interest.

    The Tack Is Back on Highline
    traildoc
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    Perfect Day for Adopt'a'Trail Workers to Do Badly Needed Trail Maintenance
    traildoc
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    Currently at Mayo Clinic being tested for a kidney transplant. Donors welcome.

  12. #112
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    Q: what do you call a russian girl with poor feminine hygiene?
    A: Yuva Sherbeeva

  13. #113
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    When I read a Traildoc thread, it feels like I'm a dog and you're trying to explain to me why thunder is loud.

  14. #114
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    Hyjacking a Traildoc thread: priceless.

    The Nog was funny.

    Suggesting one shove a shovel up one's butt was not

    Jumping on the bandwagon by several forum members that never have anything positive to contribute except another opportunity to bash poor traildoc is pathetic and childish. EazyE just proved my point.

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy_E View Post
    When I read a Traildoc thread, it feels like I'm a dog and you're trying to explain to me why thunder is loud.
    EasyE

    I can totally relate to this statement!!!

    The important thing to take from this is that repetitive reinforcement works!!!!

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by m77ranger View Post

    The guy that he plays on the internet is pretty gross. TD always needs the spotlight and for people to justify his actions for him. If anyone disagrees with him about anything TD can't actually discuss what they don't agree about and instead just condescends with accusations about them being lazy or not a skilled enough rider to have an opinion. I think that most of the “TD haters” are just tired of seeing him demand attention and lash out at people that don't give him the kudos he wants. I think its pretty fun to hijack his thread with NOG, he's hijacked countless other threads demanding attention so its fun to see him get so upset when we play his own game on him.

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by m77ranger View Post
    The guy that he plays on the internet is pretty gross. TD always needs the spotlight and for people to justify his actions for him. If anyone disagrees with him about anything TD can't actually discuss what they don't agree about and instead just condescends with accusations about them being lazy or not a skilled enough rider to have an opinion. I think that most of the “TD haters” are just tired of seeing him demand attention and lash out at people that don't give him the kudos he wants. I think its pretty fun to hijack his thread with NOG, he's hijacked countless other threads demanding attention so its fun to see him get so upset when we play his own game on him.
    Glory be upon Traildoc, hallowed is thy name! If Sedona was Saudi Arabia, Traildoc would be the self-appointed Imam.

    I've got no issues with TD as a person, as he seems to be genuinely passionate and a decent advocate, it's just the me, me, me, I, I, I, self-appointed stuff I get tired of.

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    Hyjacking a Traildoc thread: priceless.

    The Nog was funny.

    Suggesting one shove a shovel up one's butt was not.
    Rock

    Fair enough, let me explain.
    TD had that coming, he knows it, and the fact that he has taken it with respect is meaningful to me and a BUNCH of others on this forum! He crossed a line some 8-10 months ago with me and he lost a lot of cred on MTBR.

    TD I'm still calling BS on this thread topic, but as far as the past goes we're even with me.

    This post was brought to TD by GOTCURVES.

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    Hyjacking a Traildoc thread: priceless.

    The Nog was funny.

    Suggesting one shove a shovel up one's butt was not

    Jumping on the bandwagon by several forum members that never have anything positive to contribute except another opportunity to bash poor traildoc is pathetic and childish. EazyE just proved my point.
    While I have more important issues in life than Sedona. To think TD has not insulted others in the past, is incorrect. Why do you think Mr. Finch has multple threads with similar responses from others? Because everyone on MTBR got together for a hot chocolate and decided to gang up on him! Why was he thrown out of the park for 6 months and fined, because the FS wanted to have a hot chocolate and gang up on him.

    Being overly passionate about something may not always be a good thing. One needs to learn control along with their passion. What I see is John can dish it out. But gets a little sensitive when people poke back. Be it in jest or not.
    Currently at Mayo Clinic being tested for a kidney transplant. Donors welcome.

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by m77ranger View Post
    Well, if we're going to get all rational in a TD post here is my take on the legendary TrailDoc. I think that John F has done a ton of work for Sedona that I appropriate. His trail improvements are actually improvements and not just sanitation e.g. Dan O/tps/sector25s illegal work on rocky ridge, schultz, sunset, and oldham. I've only had a few encounters with John in real life and he's an alright dude. He even gave me a shuttle for a ride once. I haven't ridden with him but by all accounts he's a strong rider. I've ridden with his wife a couple times (no this is not some weird backhanded joke) and she is a super nice woman and a good rider, I can't imagine she would settle for marriage with an actual jerk.

    The guy that he plays on the internet is pretty gross. TD always needs the spotlight and for people to justify his actions for him. If anyone disagrees with him about anything TD can't actually discuss what they don't agree about and instead just condescends with accusations about them being lazy or not a skilled enough rider to have an opinion. I think that most of the “TD haters” are just tired of seeing him demand attention and lash out at people that don't give him the kudos he wants. I think its pretty fun to hijack his thread with NOG, he's hijacked countless other threads demanding attention so its fun to see him get so upset when we play his own game on him.

    Maybe I have his online persona all wrong and he's actually a faux-jerk genius and he's just playing us all to draw attention to Sedona. Or maybe he doesn't understand that he's talking to real people on mtbr that appear lazy to him because they don't need to post on mtbr every time they perform a trail improvement, legally or not so legally. This is a pretty good listen and I think the online form of TD fits in here somewhere: Legacy of a jerk

    Keep it up John, hang it up TD.
    77:

    Thanks for the the insightful post. Here is the situation I may still be dealing with in Sedona. I did my time being banned for six months from the AZ Northern National Forest, I paid my $1,000 fine before the judge asked for the fine. I have paid my debt to society. I was told by the Federal attorney that my class 2 misdemeanor would not affect my employment status and I would be treated as a regular citizen once I finished my banning.

    Now in Sedona we have a situation where the number one trail builder may be still working for the FS doing extensive FS new trail builds, re-routes, trail improvements and trail enhancements.

    I have been corresponding with the head of the FS about this issue to see if there is an aspect of discrimination to the FS having the biggest Sedona trail builder working for them when all I did was a small trail improvement on the Tea Cup trail with implied consent and other FS new trail projects like Aerie.

    The head of the FS went silent when I asked her if she knew about this trail building rockstar. He has done more for Sedona mountain biking and hiking trails then anyone in our history. He should be given the trail building of the year award and there should be benches with his name on it at every great view point of the trails he has built.

    Here is the problem, when I rode the Chapel trail yesterday to get to Little Horse trail to ride the White Line trail, I noticed rocks in the Chapel trail water diverters that were blocking the function of the water diverter. I wanted to stop and clear the water diverter to keep the water from running down the trail and expediting the erosion of the trail.

    I know I am not allowed to do necessary maintenance on system trails because the head of the FS says noway no how I have shown remorse for my previous Tea Cup work, so I am banned from doing needed maintenance and the trails suffer because I can't call Ride'n'Shine to do the work because he won't adopt any trails even that one which is close to the paved road.

    The head of the FS won't let me email Adrian who's job it is to take care of Sedona trails because I keep asking her if the guy who built all the Sedona trails is still doing needed maintenance. Adrian said she was OK with me adopting Anaconda, but I had to get the ranger in charge to OK my being a trail boss. I didn't get that OK, so now the Sedona trails have to suffer because I can't clear the water diverters when I see a drainage problem.

    My point is that water diverters are put in for a reason. When they are clogged with rocks and debris they should be cleared to reduce erosion. I have the training and desire to clear those clogged diverters but for some reason the head of the FS doesn't believe I have showed enough remorse to be allowed to clear the debris while she let's the guy deserving a medal possibly still work on the trails.

    Something seems screwy to me, and so far I can't figure it out, but when I do MTBR viewers will be the first to know what I find out. This valuable AZ forum has the transparency we all are looking for.

    TD

  21. #121
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    LEAVE TRAILDOC ALONE!!!!!!!!


  22. #122
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    My wife has left me in Sedona for the Christmas Holiday. I don't really celebrate the Christmas commercial shopping thing, but I do enjoy having mountain bikers over for a fun barbecue. Based on the party spirit of this thread, I thought maybe we could all get together for a Mountain Biking Celebration.

    I will buy the roast if 77Ranger puts together an Egg Nog party of silent passionate trail improvement specialists.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by m77ranger View Post
    This is a pretty good listen and I think the online form of TD fits in here somewhere: Legacy of a jerk

    Keep it up John, hang it up TD.
    I _really_ doubt we'll see pictures of college girls with his face on their panties after he's dead. He's no Steve.
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

  24. #124
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    TD

    Try and understand this analogy...You made yourself the Al Capone of Sedona trail builders!

    Let me explain,
    It was not all the "social trails" that locals "rode and walked into exisistance" that the USFS had a problem with in the perverbial straw that broke the camels back, it was your online map that pushed them over the edge. This is the general understanding I have gathered from the Sedona locals and authorities. You were just so charged up to be the MAN who was doing what he felt the USFS neglected to do and that was to create a map of all the trails in Sedona in order to improve the user experience and help visitors from getting lost!! This problem was real and needed to be taken care of. But in your haste and enthusiasm you neglected one simple fact....it's not your land to manage nor your job to do and when it hit the Internet the FS lost thier ability to effectively manage the land the way the policy that their authority had mandated. Here is the catch! What you did wasn't illegal it just wasn't policy and the USFS may have been put in a tough spot with the online map. To add fuel to this fire you went crazy with MTBR invites of tours of the trails on your map. Again nothing wrong with doing that for free or for favors, it's just not activity the USFS can support. Then you threw a powder keg on this fire by, providing your map to local bike shops that would take it and again nothing really illegal here but yet again this is activity that the USFS cannot support.

    So what does an organization have to do to gain some sort of management back, eliminate the problem. Do not feel you have been mistreated by the hands of the FS when you yourself admitted to the unauthorized trail work. The (as you call him) #1 trail builder you speak of probably never ADMITTED to any unauthorized trail work (i.e. no evidence) and since you were the thorn in thier side, you became an example.

    Most locals feel; while your intentions were not wrong, your actions in turn forced the hand to take action and this has set back the growth of the sport in Sedona.

    It's your choice and freedom to force yourself upon the establishment, just remember your actions might have consequences you are unaware of or feel unwarranted simply because the policy the USFS has to follow is in conflict.

    Happy trails!

    To add; original topic...solved.

    Nog topic: Has this nogfest been approved by the Nog Masters Council?
    Has the host properly trained the festival staff?
    Has consideration of future events been voted on by a majority of the NMC members?
    Have the ingredients for the "Flight of the Faildocs" NMC Nog recipe, been approved by the QC council?

    I move we gather recipes for the roast and provide to the NMC our reccomendations that will provide the party goer with his or her best party experience!

    Happy holidays!!!!
    Last edited by RideNShine; 12-19-2012 at 01:52 PM. Reason: To add thread topics content

  25. #125
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    I believe this is a Trojan horse situation. Sending out these invitations while knowing the roast would be spiked causing appalling harm for those without the TD antidote.
    Currently at Mayo Clinic being tested for a kidney transplant. Donors welcome.

  26. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    77:

    Thanks for the the insightful post. Here is the situation I may still be dealing with in Sedona. I did my time being banned for six months from the AZ Northern National Forest, I paid my $1,000 fine before the judge asked for the fine. I have paid my debt to society. I was told by the Federal attorney that my class 2 misdemeanor would not affect my employment status and I would be treated as a regular citizen once I finished my banning.

    Now in Sedona we have a situation where the number one trail builder may be still working for the FS doing extensive FS new trail builds, re-routes, trail improvements and trail enhancements.

    I have been corresponding with the head of the FS about this issue to see if there is an aspect of discrimination to the FS having the biggest Sedona trail builder working for them when all I did was a small trail improvement on the Tea Cup trail with implied consent and other FS new trail projects like Aerie.

    The head of the FS went silent when I asked her if she knew about this trail building rockstar. He has done more for Sedona mountain biking and hiking trails then anyone in our history. He should be given the trail building of the year award and there should be benches with his name on it at every great view point of the trails he has built.

    Here is the problem, when I rode the Chapel trail yesterday to get to Little Horse trail to ride the White Line trail, I noticed rocks in the Chapel trail water diverters that were blocking the function of the water diverter. I wanted to stop and clear the water diverter to keep the water from running down the trail and expediting the erosion of the trail.

    I know I am not allowed to do necessary maintenance on system trails because the head of the FS says noway no how I have shown remorse for my previous Tea Cup work, so I am banned from doing needed maintenance and the trails suffer because I can't call Ride'n'Shine to do the work because he won't adopt any trails even that one which is close to the paved road.

    The head of the FS won't let me email Adrian who's job it is to take care of Sedona trails because I keep asking her if the guy who built all the Sedona trails is still doing needed maintenance. Adrian said she was OK with me adopting Anaconda, but I had to get the ranger in charge to OK my being a trail boss. I didn't get that OK, so now the Sedona trails have to suffer because I can't clear the water diverters when I see a drainage problem.

    My point is that water diverters are put in for a reason. When they are clogged with rocks and debris they should be cleared to reduce erosion. I have the training and desire to clear those clogged diverters but for some reason the head of the FS doesn't believe I have showed enough remorse to be allowed to clear the debris while she let's the guy deserving a medal possibly still work on the trails.

    Something seems screwy to me, and so far I can't figure it out, but when I do MTBR viewers will be the first to know what I find out. This valuable AZ forum has the transparency we all are looking for.

    TD
    Please stay on topic TD: Brandy or Bourbon?
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  27. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Observer View Post
    Please stay on topic TD: Brandy or Bourbon?
    Get both?

    My parents made a pretty sick blackberry wine that I've been hitting pretty hard. Usually, I don't care for wine.

  28. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post

    Something seems screwy to me, and so far I can't figure it out, but when I do MTBR viewers will be the first to know what I find out. This valuable AZ forum has the transparency we all are looking for.

    TD
    Take a hint.. We don't care.

  29. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by RideNShine View Post
    TD

    Try and understand this analogy...You made yourself the Al Capone of Sedona trail builders!

    Let me explain,
    It was not all the "social trails" that locals "rode and walked into exisistance" that the USFS had a problem with in the perverbial straw that broke the camels back, it was your online map that pushed them over the edge. This is the general understanding I have gathered from the Sedona locals and authorities. You were just so charged up to be the MAN who was doing what he felt the USFS neglected to do and that was to create a map of all the trails in Sedona in order to improve the user experience and help visitors from getting lost!! This problem was real and needed to be taken care of. But in your haste and enthusiasm you neglected one simple fact....it's not your land to manage nor your job to do and when it hit the Internet the FS lost thier ability to effectively manage the land the way the policy that their authority had mandated. Here is the catch! What you did wasn't illegal it just wasn't policy and the USFS may have been put in a tough spot with the online map. To add fuel to this fire you went crazy with MTBR invites of tours of the trails on your map. Again nothing wrong with doing that for free or for favors, it's just not activity the USFS can support. Then you threw a powder keg on this fire by, providing your map to local bike shops that would take it and again nothing really illegal here but yet again this is activity that the USFS cannot support.

    So what does an organization have to do to gain some sort of management back, eliminate the problem. Do not feel you have been mistreated by the hands of the FS when you yourself admitted to the unauthorized trail work. The (as you call him) #1 trail builder you speak of probably never ADMITTED to any unauthorized trail work (i.e. no evidence) and since you were the thorn in thier side, you became an example.

    Most locals feel; while your intentions were not wrong, your actions in turn forced the hand to take action and this has set back the growth of the sport in Sedona.

    It's your choice and freedom to force yourself upon the establishment, just remember your actions might have consequences you are unaware of or feel unwarranted simply because the policy the USFS has to follow is in conflict.

    Happy trails!
    Ride'n'Shine:

    Once again you are not being specific. Who are these individuals you are referring to. Yes I did tell Jennifer I did the work on Tea Cup that I thought I had implied consent to do. The project took about 15 minutes to complete, so even though it was badly needed for guys like you to have a chance to ride it wasn't a big project.

    You have said nothing else I have done is illegal. My map is the best mountain bike map in Sedona. Bear Tooth has the second best map, but you can't use it on a SMART PHONE.

    Bear Tooth has stepped up their mapping efforts because of me being their major competition. Look at the first edition of their new format. It is larger so that trails like Basalt and Kiabab can be shown with some clarity, but they have no names attached like mine has. So even though you see trail lines you have no clue what you are riding on.

    Take a look at their suggested rides. They are described with a bunch of our very special trail names not just one name like Woahey suggests.

    You have to understand the Sedona mountain bike scene is evolving, you say it's going backwards. OTE probably had over 1,700 bike rentals last year. Mountain Bike Heaven had half that amount, so how is mountain biking going backwards? If you were to ask Fat Tire Dave or Jimmy at Bike and Bean do you think their rentals are down over the previous year? Please answer that question.

    Once again you make up stuff to match your agenda. What is your mission statement anyway. Everyone knows what mine is, but what is yours (let's ride the trails and never maintain them). In case you didn't figure it out yet you are not invited to the 77 Ranger party I am bringing the roast to.

    TD

  30. #130
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    He's not invited to a party he'd never go to anyway? Ouch, man.

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    For once pull your head out of your own agenda!!!

    You set this user group MTBrs back in thier relations with the FS.

    I have no doubt one bit that bike shop biz is up, and you had something to do with it in some way.

    How can I put this in a manner you can understand, if you tried to use my land in a manner that I didn't want, I would do whatever I could to stop you!

    Even if you do not understand what you did wrong, you have to ask yourself a simple question, that need not be answered on this forum is this;

    Have you misused in any manner USFS land that you have not owned up to in the past?

    If so then there is ALLWAYS the risk that they may have evidence of it. If not then no worries.

    I absolutely believe they have evidence on most of the trail building public, but they do not need to act on it until they are either forced to or have no choice due to public pressure.

    The locals have been riding and walking trails into existance for decades, and I'm sure back before your online map stunt the USFS was a lot more tolerant of this activity simply because it filled a need for more trail due to increasing trail activity and traffic.

    On topic, I recall you butting your inconsiderate self into the Nog festivities with gifts of roast beast, but I don't recall you being invited.

    TD FYI In developing important social skills always know your position, my invitation came by association.

    Don't even try to bury the pervebial hatchet in the Nogfest!!!

  32. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by RideNShine View Post
    TD

    For once pull your head out of your own agenda!!!

    You set this user group MTBrs back in thier relations with the FS.

    I have no doubt one bit that bike shop biz is up, and you had something to do with it in some way.

    How can I put this in a manner you can understand, if you tried to use my land in a manner that I didn't want, I would do whatever I could to stop you!

    Even if you do not understand what you did wrong, you have to ask yourself a simple question, that need not be answered on this forum is this;

    Have you misused in any manner USFS land that you have not owned up to in the past?

    If so then there is ALLWAYS the risk that they may have evidence of it. If not then no worries.

    I absolutely believe they have evidence on most of the trail building public, but they do not need to act on it until they are either forced to or have no choice due to public pressure.

    The locals have been riding and walking trails into existance for decades, and I'm sure back before your online map stunt the USFS was a lot more tolerant of this activity simply because it filled a need for more trail due to increasing trail activity and traffic.

    On topic, I recall you butting your inconsiderate self into the Nog festivities with gifts of roast beast, but I don't recall you being invited.

    TD FYI In developing important social skills always know your position, my invitation came by association.

    Don't even try to bury the pervebial hatchet in the Nogfest!!!
    R&S:

    Great dodge. We need specifics not a bunch of mumbo jumbo. There have been several hundreds of new trails put on the Sedona public land in the last 400 years. What relevance does one trail have over another trail?

    My Westerner buddies have a bunch of user-built trails they hike w/o posting on the internet. Are they breaking the rules when they share those trails with their friends?

    I share the mountain biking trails with MTBR viewers. There is nothing illegal about that, right? What is the difference?

    The FS claims there are 600,000 trail users coming to Sedona each year. At tomorrow's meeting we are being asked what percentage are hikers, bikers or equestrians. Why is that question being asked? We all know the majority of those users are actually walkers who step no more than 500' into the red dirt. When those parking lots are totally filled, and people are double parking, I guess there is a need to make more Bell Rock parking lots, right. Is that where we are going with the whole RTCA process, more large parking lots for the walkers. Parking lots are expensive, how much are they spending on the new one one Vultee Arch Rd.?

    There is a guy at the RTCA meeting that wants a bigger parking lot at West Fork and Midgely Bridge. Do you think he is going to get his bigger parking lot? I say NO WAY. The FS has already determined that the size of the parking lot limits the size of the user group due to environment damage concerns. Too many walking or hiking tourons on the trail destroy the trail and the environment.

    Try to be specific as to who you are talking to.

  33. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    R&S:

    Great dodge. We need specifics not a bunch of mumbo jumbo.
    Kettle meet Pot.
    Currently at Mayo Clinic being tested for a kidney transplant. Donors welcome.

  34. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    R&S:

    Great dodge. We need specifics not a bunch of mumbo jumbo. There have been several hundreds of new trails put on the Sedona public land in the last 400 years. What relevance does one trail have over another trail?

    My Westerner buddies have a bunch of user-built trails they hike w/o posting on the internet. Are they breaking the rules when they share those trails with their friends?

    I share the mountain biking trails with MTBR viewers. There is nothing illegal about that, right? What is the difference?

    The FS claims there are 600,000 trail users coming to Sedona each year. At tomorrow's meeting we are being asked what percentage are hikers, bikers or equestrians. Why is that question being asked? We all know the majority of those users are actually walkers who step no more than 500' into the red dirt. When those parking lots are totally filled, and people are double parking, I guess there is a need to make more Bell Rock parking lots, right. Is that where we are going with the whole RTCA process, more large parking lots for the walkers. Parking lots are expensive, how much are they spending on the new one one Vultee Arch Rd.?

    There is a guy at the RTCA meeting that wants a bigger parking lot at West Fork and Midgely Bridge. Do you think he is going to get his bigger parking lot? I say NO WAY. The FS has already determined that the size of the parking lot limits the size of the user group due to environment damage concerns. Too many walking or hiking tourons on the trail destroy the trail and the environment.

    Try to be specific as to who you are talking to.
    Quit being such a wet noodle and get the phuck back on topic.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  35. #135
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    TD

    WTF does any of what you said in your last post have to do with what I am so desperately trying to tell you.

    Did you ever consider I may just have family that work for the USFS and BLM?

  36. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by RideNShine View Post
    TD

    WTF does any of what you said in your last post have to do with what I am so desperately trying to tell you.

    Did you ever consider I may just have family that work for the USFS and BLM?
    What are their names, how long have they been with the service, do they ride bikes or are they hikers, what size shoe doe they wear, do they prefer Hot Coco or Hot Toddie?

    PS: Which of the 10 Nog recipes do they prefer?
    Currently at Mayo Clinic being tested for a kidney transplant. Donors welcome.

  37. #137
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    you clowns are still knocking heads on this thread?

    It was over for the masses when Su Ling left the room.

  38. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by chollaball View Post
    you clowns are still knocking heads on this thread?

    It was over for the masses when Su Ling left the room.
    Just wasting company time is all.
    Currently at Mayo Clinic being tested for a kidney transplant. Donors welcome.

  39. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cycle64 View Post
    Just wasting company time is all.
    Wasting time....like a bawss?

  40. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy_E View Post
    Wasting time....like a bawss?
    Who are you and why are you stalking me?
    Currently at Mayo Clinic being tested for a kidney transplant. Donors welcome.

  41. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cycle64 View Post
    What are their names, how long have they been with the service, do they ride bikes or are they hikers, what size shoe doe they wear, do they prefer Hot Coco or Hot Toddie?

    PS: Which of the 10 Nog recipes do they prefer?
    C64

    Lets just say they enjoy Nog and their user experience is always good!

    Words to live by.... It's more effective to influence change in those who make policy than to influence those who follow policy, to not follow it.

  42. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by RideNShine View Post
    C64

    Lets just say they enjoy Nog and their user experience is always good!

    Words to live by.... It's more effective to influence change in those who make policy than to influence those who follow policy, to not follow it.
    64:

    Thank you for trying to get names out of R&S if I ask him he calls it stalking if you ask him he calls it stalking. Get the names, please. This guy seems to not want to admit he has a hidden agenda to discredit me. What have I done WRONG, where is his mission statement? These viewers want to know the truth.

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  43. #143
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    Thats it ... I'm off to dig through my trash to make sure my neighbor has not used my can. If he has, I'll force him to move 50 feet away.



    Why does everyone need a mission statement?

  44. #144
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    TD
    My agenda or "mission statement" as you call it doesn't exist. I have no plans to change policies that I am not required to follow, I let those who are involved with it worry about it.

    What concerns me about you is your ignorance. You can dismiss everything I have said in this thread, and it doesn't take away the fact that the FS has you in their crosshairs just waiting to drop an even bigger hammer upon you if you become too much of a problem for them. Knowing your personality type, you will never heed the advise of others and will push along unaware you are screwing yourself.

    I don't have to discredit you, you're doing fine all by yourself!

    Nog it does a body good!!

  45. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillbo View Post
    Why does everyone need a mission statement?
    It leads to an enhanced user experience?

  46. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    64:

    These viewers want to know the truth.

    traildoc, swacer, Spoonman, JahSonora, AKA Monkeybutt, xbikewi, BlackCanyonTrailJunkie, RideNShine, Eazy_E, Phillbo, DustyChap, wantadhbike, supermoto, MudMan27, Flying Cactus, idaz, wjabboud, DurtGurl, _dragon, 2BeerJoe, r_methodair, IMBA south west, SugarHigh, rockman, getbent1, funboarder1971, DesertDog, sjcoffey, bondo, Casual Observer, GR1822, tysonnemb, vinnyl26, aevanlloyd, longhairmike, Douger-1, WOOD MASTER, dh'n az, azepicriderandrunner, ckeeler, thrash, azdog, raider0515, RobZona, Fureak, ECEGatorTuro, zona98, TurtleGerl, govertime, CBizzie, Yardstick, cgcharlie, bikebean
    TD,

    I’m only following this thread to find out where Chollaball lives. I use to go to his old place in Chandler and dig through his trash looking for a pair of his wives underwear. He screwed me all up by moving and now I don’t know where he lives. I was going to ask him where his new place is but I figured that he might not understand.

  47. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKA Monkeybutt View Post
    TD,
    I use to go to his old place in Chandler and dig through his trash looking for a pair of his wives underwear. He screwed me all up by moving and now I don’t know where he lives.
    Why would you do such a thing?


  48. #148
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    Ha... Shallow Hal ... Good flick !

  49. #149
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    Good one EasyE!!

    Those in the know, know just how fitting that analogy is!!!

  50. #150
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    Hey TD... Why are you even *****ing about the approval process in your OP when you have not or probably never will be allowed to adopt a trail? Why not focus on something that will have an impact on your life like that cure for your mental illness you mentioned your brother in law was working on.. Hows that working for you ?

  51. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKA Monkeybutt View Post
    TD,

    I’m only following this thread to find out where Chollaball lives. I use to go to his old place in Chandler and dig through his trash looking for a pair of his wives underwear. He screwed me all up by moving and now I don’t know where he lives. I was going to ask him where his new place is but I figured that he might not understand.
    I knew it, sickO. .
    SHITBIRD

  52. #152
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    Attached Images Attached Images

  53. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by phillbo View Post
    lmao!!

  54. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    64:

    Thank you for trying to get names out of R&S if I ask him he calls it stalking if you ask him he calls it stalking. Get the names, please. This guy seems to not want to admit he has a hidden agenda to discredit me. What have I done WRONG, where is his mission statement? These viewers want to know the truth.

    traildoc, swacer, Spoonman, JahSonora, AKA Monkeybutt, xbikewi, BlackCanyonTrailJunkie, RideNShine, Eazy_E, Phillbo, DustyChap, wantadhbike, supermoto, MudMan27, Flying Cactus, idaz, wjabboud, DurtGurl, _dragon, 2BeerJoe, r_methodair, IMBA south west, SugarHigh, rockman, getbent1, funboarder1971, DesertDog, sjcoffey, bondo, Casual Observer, GR1822, tysonnemb, vinnyl26, aevanlloyd, longhairmike, Douger-1, WOOD MASTER, dh'n az, azepicriderandrunner, ckeeler, thrash, azdog, raider0515, RobZona, Fureak, ECEGatorTuro, zona98, TurtleGerl, govertime, CBizzie, Yardstick, cgcharlie, bikebean
    Shoot I didn't make the list!

  55. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by el poseur View Post
    Shoot I didn't make the list!
    Yeah, I don't know if it's the "People to Kill" list or the "BFF" list. I'm assuming it's:


  56. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by el poseur View Post
    Shoot I didn't make the list!
    But what I find amusing is I did!!

    You all should have been witness to that conversation when I petitioned TD to question myself about my myself, it really was freaky to me but TD really could relate and understand an unusual interaction. Go figure that one out!!

    BTW as you can see I was one of first ones to sign!


    TD as requested by you I got that info on R&S and I went ahead and forwarded it to him for fact checking. I suspect it might take a while as I believe providing such information is not very high on his mission statement, this of course is an assumption based purely on his initial reaction to my request being the following statement "I thought my shovel bumm suggestion was a big enough hint, perhaps he needed further clarification on how to perform the work techniques.

    R&S did however offer some further clarifications that might help with the tough spots. He offered "while this technique offers the builder a view of recent work performed, it does however require the mechanical aptitude to "change tools" with out the use of hands. This is required because the trail builder (when he or she encounters a rock or two in the trail path) must immediately contact the USFS with MMS confirmation of said rocks all while simultaneously changing tools in order to ensure maximum effective use of volunteer time!

    I hope this helps you out!

    Has anyone tried mixing in a sparkling beverage to thier Nog?
    Happy trails!
    Last edited by RideNShine; 12-19-2012 at 07:02 PM. Reason: To add topic content

  57. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillbo View Post
    Hey TD... Why are you even *****ing about the approval process in your OP when you have not or probably never will be allowed to adopt a trail?
    Phil:

    I am not 100% sure I won't be able to work as a volunteer for the Coconino National Forest. If I can prove they are discriminating against me after I served my time and that they are allowing the higher up FS employee's friend who has built eight trails that the FS has spent tens of thousands of dollars to bring into a system status maybe they can realize keeping me busy cleaning out system trail water diverters and improving signage is a good thing to save taxpayer dollars.

    On my second day of riding I met up with Justin and TWO archeologists on the Anaconda trail. There were two big newer trucks at the trailhead, that I assume were used to bring the workers to the site.

    I have no clue why you would need an archeologist to drive all the way down from Flagstaff to do an archeology study on the Anaconda trail when they had the previous head of the FS with over 40 years of experience also doing the study.

    It boggles my mind how it has taken three years to get an archeological study on this trail. It seems like if the FS is doubling up on archeologists to do such an easy study on such an easy trail they are not being very efficient. Seems like the Flagstaff archeologist could have been doing a study in Flagstaff. Maybe they have run out of work in Flagstaff, so they sent her down to Sedona to keep her busy.

    Who knows, I doubt Justin will explain, so far he is unwilling to tell us when the new re-route will be done on Anaconda, that he says will only take 30 minutes to complete.

    When is Ride'n'Shine going to tell us who specifically he has been talking to? Seems like you guys are cutting him a lot of slack and are just beating on me for telling the truth. Somehow it doesn't seem right, but what do I know.

    TD

  58. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKA Monkeybutt View Post
    TD,

    I’m only following this thread to find out where Chollaball lives. I use to go to his old place in Chandler and dig through his trash looking for a pair of his wives underwear. He screwed me all up by moving and now I don’t know where he lives. I was going to ask him where his new place is but I figured that he might not understand.
    take em, they smell like asparagus

  59. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    Phil:

    I am not 100% sure I won't be able to work as a volunteer for the Coconino National Forest. If I can prove they are discriminating against me after I served my time and that they are allowing the higher up FS employee's friend who has built eight trails that the FS has spent tens of thousands of dollars to bring into a system status maybe they can realize keeping me busy cleaning out system trail water diverters and improving signage is a good thing to save taxpayer dollars.

    On my second day of riding I met up with Justin and TWO archeologists on the Anaconda trail. There were two big newer trucks at the trailhead, that I assume were used to bring the workers to the site.

    I have no clue why you would need an archeologist to drive all the way down from Flagstaff to do an archeology study on the Anaconda trail when they had the previous head of the FS with over 40 years of experience also doing the study.

    It boggles my mind how it has taken three years to get an archeological study on this trail. It seems like if the FS is doubling up on archeologists to do such an easy study on such an easy trail they are not being very efficient. Seems like the Flagstaff archeologist could have been doing a study in Flagstaff. Maybe they have run out of work in Flagstaff, so they sent her down to Sedona to keep her busy.

    Who knows, I doubt Justin will explain, so far he is unwilling to tell us when the new re-route will be done on Anaconda, that he says will only take 30 minutes to complete.

    When is Ride'n'Shine going to tell us who specifically he has been talking to? Seems like you guys are cutting him a lot of slack and are just beating on me for telling the truth. Somehow it doesn't seem right, but what do I know.

    TD

    ^^^^^^^ this is the textbook example of the personality disorder narcisism.
    TD

    What you don't get is while what you say may be true, you are not "speaking the truth" you are only *****ing like a red-headed step-child. And doing it over issues that currently don't impact you!

    I, unlike you in a HUGE way, am not ignorant enough to incriminate myself or others, I will however (when presented with such a choice) choose to not be a victim of some misguided narcissistic agenda.

    To put it more subtlety, I am not willing hang my ass out to dry, to protect anyone but my family and close friends.

  60. #160
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    TD, your post on here just prove to the FS that you are unstable and should not be allowed permission to perform any trail maintenance at any time.


    Think about it. You come off as a nut case. Not someone the FS wants under their umbrella.

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    TD

    After some further thought, I realize you give my suggestion of "taking "YOU" down a few notches and lay low and just ride, ride, ride" no cred. I also realize you have no concept of "in confidence" by continuously asking me to name names! That will never happen!

    What I have decided to do is just let you screw yourself and enjoy a front row seat!!

    BTW WTF have you done lately but be a PITA at the RTCA meetings or whatever they are called.

    Words to live by...A persons efforts to gather information is done in vain if the information falls upon a deaf ear!

    Happy Fails!
    Last edited by RideNShine; 12-19-2012 at 08:29 PM.

  62. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillbo View Post
    TD, your post on here just prove to the FS that you are unstable and should not be allowed permission to perform any trail maintenance at any time.


    Think about it. You come off as a nut case. Not someone the FS wants under their umbrella.
    Come on Philbo, how am I a nutcase? Let's be specific.

    Here is an example how another Adopt'a'Trail program played out in another national forest:

    A little history on the RNF adopt a trail program.

    5 years ago when the RNF they realized the need for a volunteer coordinator I was able to get that job as a part time 20 hours a week position. I did this job for a year and a half and in that time was able to figure out who all the volunteers where, sign up new recruits ( I didn’t actively seek new people, they would call the office looking to help and I would place them) and train them in proper trail maintenance (some of you were in the program) The program grew to about 35 groups and individuals that maintained (for better or worse) about 120 miles of trails – not all in the Columbia Basin.

    The RNF discovered that my job type couldn’t be used as a year round job and they had to change me back to 6 months at full time. On my 6 months off, I volunteered to come in the office and at least keep track of the hours spent on the trails. I did this for a couple of years.

    When I started building the new house the National Forest Trust had just started working with the RNF and as I went out the door I handed all my files, spreadsheets and training information to the new volunteer coordinator. It was my understanding that the CFT would be taking on the Adopt a Trail program as their number one mission. Boy was I wrong. The NFT went a completely different direction and the program fell to the wayside. The adoptees tried to do what they were supposed to, but their attempts at communication with the NFT and RNF were rarely, if ever, returned. Frustrated, the adoptees just gave up. When I finally found out about this I was pissed off. The response from the FS was that the program was officially shut down because there wasn’t anyone to run it. In addition, their interpretation of the rules for volunteers meant that anyone going out on trails had to be properly trained, someone in the group had to have CPR training and a FS employee had to accompany them. And since they didn’t have the staff to go out with the groups, they dropped the program.

    So, the RNF says they can’t maintain the trails they have, yet are digging in their heals "against" bringing back the best volunteer program the FS had. I think they are coming around, though, and hopefully will resurrect the program. This is one place where we need to get involved. It not only could be at least as big as it once was, it could be so much bigger. I never even tried to recruit groups, and if a full time volunteer coordinator was hired, the program could be double or triple the size that I ran.
    Last edited by traildoc; 12-20-2012 at 12:09 AM.

  63. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    If I can prove they are discriminating against me after I served my time and that they are allowing the higher up FS employee's friend who has built eight trails that the FS has spent tens of thousands of dollars to bring into a system status maybe they can realize keeping me busy cleaning out system trail water diverters and improving signage is a good thing to save taxpayer dollars.



    I have no clue why you would need an archeologist to drive all the way down from Flagstaff to do an archeology study on the Anaconda trail when they had the previous head of the FS with over 40 years of experience also doing the study.


    TD

    TD
    I was compelled to single these two statement out and offer a comment;

    The FS was looking to make an example of someone to try and put an end to the unauthorized trail building, you admitted to such activity (no matter how small) and became the example. The FS may be well aware of who is working for them now, and what they have done in the past but if they have no evidence of it, they cannot prosecute. Pretty simple and I see no discrimination in their actions then and I see no reason why they should need to resort to it in the future.

    To try and understand why the gvnmt operates the way it does is asking to become insane!

  64. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    Come on Philbo, how am I a nutcase? Let's be specific.


  65. #165
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    Listen!

    Quote Originally Posted by RideNShine View Post
    TD
    I was compelled to single these two statement out and offer a comment;

    The FS was looking to make an example of someone to try and put an end to the unauthorized trail building, you admitted to such activity (no matter how small) and became the example. The FS may be well aware of who is working for them now, and what they have done in the past but if they have no evidence of it, they cannot prosecute. Pretty simple and I see no discrimination in their actions then and I see no reason why they should need to resort to it in the future.

    To try and understand why the gvnmt operates the way it does is asking to become insane!
    Good points Shine. Since I have been corresponding with head of the FS about this potential discrimination issue, she says she is not going to discuss disciplinary issues with her employees with me via email. I told her I understood why she was unable to discuss those private issues with me.

    We both know she has to send my emails up to a higher authority, so she isn't accused of playing favorites to her fellow employee and her friend. If upon their investigation they find no evidence of the friend doing anything wrong then I assume they will go to the next step. I would assume a case such as this could get a little messy, if they are in fact discriminating against me and letting the other person have cart blanch on his activities.

    Just think how Justin feels about this situation. He has been wanting to be promoted to a higher position with the FS, he knows the score, and don't you think he is wondering what is going to happen?

    Time will tell how this plays out and in the mean time I will ride with my friends and let Heather know where I see maintenance issues on the system trails, that I can't tell Adrian about because Heather doesn't want to expose her to this difficult situation.

    Discrimination is not something to take lightly, if it is in fact happening at this point in time. Making an example out of me for working on Tea Cup was one thing, but the FS lied about me being found guilty for building a user-built trail was not true. So now we may find out what the truth really is.

    Can't you see being the trail boss on Anaconda will cure my disorder and prove to the FS I am a dedicated volunteer wanting to keep Anaconda in a pristine condition. I could careless what Jennifer's friend has done as long as I am given permission to work on that trail. That would be funny if they had a FS employee out with me to learn how proper trail maintenance should be done.

    Check out the Areie trail and tell me what you would have done differently in the construction of that trail. I think the routing was great, but Fat Tire Dave thinks otherwise.

    Jennifer's friend routed the trail, so I trust his judgement. Now if we could just keep horses off of it, it might stand a chance to survive this winter.

    Do you have any idea why the FS allowed Western Civilization to be included on the new Bear Tooth map? That would be a great addition no doubt, but why take off Pyramid? The Pyramid trail has been in existence for hundreds of years. How could you not have had a trail there? There is an huge Indian ruin on top of the Pyramid formation, how else would they have gotten down to Oak Creel to get their water and fish for dinner?

    TD

    Good time for viewing:
    traildoc, eatdrinkride, legking, Mtn-Rider, Maadjurguer, mtbdennis, SugarHigh, kf9yr, BIGHORN LEW, aevanlloyd, RideNShine, jbbikerider, j.p.rich, SuctionGoat, Erbbbb, ojelijb, Dag Nabbit, bam29er, Hardluckhero, kevhogaz, ECEGatorTuro, su.ling~, SmartPiG, PrincipalRider, BoomingSooner, t2091, seanm418, ajh2090, GR1822, Phillbo, KillingtonVT, AKA Monkeybutt, tysonnemb, dsittman, longhairmike, clockwork, gr8xscape, tpvet73, big0mike, tjkm, azxd04, Moose512, newoldskool, freeskier46, ARIZycle, Tyler Adamson, motovita, cwr3, BlackCanyonTrailJunkie, Douger-1, Azpilot, desert flyer, barroom hero, PJamz, bobo_krkk_NIN, bazooka_beard
    Last edited by traildoc; 12-19-2012 at 09:51 PM.

  66. #166
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    Rock on, you cRaZy mofo!
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

  67. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrwhlr View Post
    Rock on, you cRaZy mofo!
    Mrwhlr:

    Thanks for the encouragement. I just think picking on old people because we want to keep our beloved trails in good condition and not being given permission to clean out rocks from a water diverter is kind of stupid. The water diveter was put in to divert water. When it gets clogged with rocks and other debris, it should be cleaned out and not left to be clogged to create more erosion that could easily be avoided if it were clear.

    I am not asking to build a new downhill trail like freak'a'zoid wants to build to replace a great trail that has already been built and is one of the most unbelievable trails in the whole world.

    Freak'a'zoid has his hands full building a 25 yard re-route that potentially won't be rideable by 95% of the users. Let him get that section rideable by 70% of the users before we let him loose on creating something new. If only 5% of the masses are only going to be able to ride something he wants, I think that might be a future hot potato, but what do I know?

    TD

  68. #168
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    TD

    Are you serious when you say you are willing to sue the USFS for discrimination if they don't allow you to adopt the Anaconda trail?

    Well having heard that from you, I'm out!

  69. #169
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    Any Ideas Where These Were Taken??????????????

    Quote Originally Posted by RideNShine View Post
    TD

    Are you serious when you say you are willing to sue the USFS for discrimination if they don't allow you to adopt the Anaconda trail?

    Well having heard that from you, I'm out!
    Ride'n'Shine:

    Where do you come up with this stupid stuff? The FS is not stupid, they know when they have been strung along, but now it's getting interesting, right. If what I am talking about has any merit it could be a mess.We are all trying to make Sedona a great place to hike and mountain bike. We don't need any big publicity event.

    All I want to do is to be able to clean out water diverters when they get plugged up and I want to be able to ride some of my favorite user-built trails.any idea where these were taken?????????????????
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Perfect Day for Adopt'a'Trail Workers to Do Badly Needed Trail Maintenance-1.jpg  

    Perfect Day for Adopt'a'Trail Workers to Do Badly Needed Trail Maintenance-2.jpg  

    Perfect Day for Adopt'a'Trail Workers to Do Badly Needed Trail Maintenance-3.jpg  


  70. #170
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    I'm no moderator, but some of you guys need to back off. This thread is like an internet version of wolves annoying prey. I'm not saying that to blow hot air up TD's clacker.

    The concept of individual trail stewards makes sense. It allows cooperation between/among groups on bigger projects and regular maintenance on every trail. Steward = stewards where the trail dictates (longer, more difficult/multiple access, more drainage issues etc).

    What also makes sense is an agreement that reporting work to the LM via email (pics and text) is acceptable for all but the big jobs. If you have to wait for staff to come and inspect the rock you want to move or the drain you want to enhance, then you don't get anything done. I realise you are in a dry area (where water is still the number 1 cause of erosion) and ours is pretty wet, but your length of trails far outweighs the impact of our deluges now we are catching up on overall trail maintenance after years of degradation.

    What seems to work best for everyone here is that the trailworkers take as much pressure off the LM by demanding as little of their time as possible, but also keeping the lines of information open, especially in picture. To make that possible and lucky for us, the LM contracted an experienced trail assessor to GPS log, way point and list repairs required to have every trail authorised and added to the official trail map. Very few were listed for closure and no trail must be closed before an alternate and sustainable alternative is open.

    Now when we go out to work on a site, all we have to do is what is expected or better at each way point. If we clear mineral or organic debris from drains on the way, then great; what is good for the park is OK and trails are part of the park. That obviously includes all the illegal trails, which make up 90% of the system in this National Park and are all mapped as above.

    We may not have as many or lengthy trails as you guys, but we just do not have enough experienced builders to allow groups to go out in haphazard clusters to make their own interpretation of the recommended modification for way point x and take a shot at the job. The LM wants it done properly. The only sensible system is adopt a trail. Experienced trailworkers select their trail and arrange their own work schedule, tools and their own team.

    The system should work in any moderate to large trail network. It is worth considering, not the least because it really draws the team together from LM down.

  71. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    I want to be able to ride some of my favorite user-built trails.any idea where these were taken?????????????????
    A much better game to play. Some of Sedona's finest but curiously not up for adoption. Yet. At least not the first two, the last one is an official system trail built by mountain bikers. I like the original name: Sechaun Chicken.

  72. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    A much better game to play. Some of Sedona's finest but curiously not up for adoption. Yet. At least not the first two, the last one is an official system trail built by mountain bikers. I like the original name: Sechaun Chicken.
    Yep, the original name was better but the current one is more fitting. I rode it yesterday. The dirt, sorry soil, was slow rolling but the corners were magic!

  73. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ridnparadise View Post
    I'm no moderator, but some of you guys need to back off. This thread is like an internet version of wolves annoying prey. I'm not saying that to blow hot air up TD's clacker.

    The concept of individual trail stewards makes sense. It allows cooperation between/among groups on bigger projects and regular maintenance on every trail. Steward = stewards where the trail dictates (longer, more difficult/multiple access, more drainage issues etc).

    What also makes sense is an agreement that reporting work to the LM via email (pics and text) is acceptable for all but the big jobs. If you have to wait for staff to come and inspect the rock you want to move or the drain you want to enhance, then you don't get anything done. I realise you are in a dry area (where water is still the number 1 cause of erosion) and ours is pretty wet, but your length of trails far outweighs the impact of our deluges now we are catching up on overall trail maintenance after years of degradation.

    What seems to work best for everyone here is that the trailworkers take as much pressure off the LM by demanding as little of their time as possible, but also keeping the lines of information open, especially in picture. To make that possible and lucky for us, the LM contracted an experienced trail assessor to GPS log, way point and list repairs required to have every trail authorised and added to the official trail map. Very few were listed for closure and no trail must be closed before an alternate and sustainable alternative is open.

    Now when we go out to work on a site, all we have to do is what is expected or better at each way point. If we clear mineral or organic debris from drains on the way, then great; what is good for the park is OK and trails are part of the park. That obviously includes all the illegal trails, which make up 90% of the system in this National Park and are all mapped as above.

    We may not have as many or lengthy trails as you guys, but we just do not have enough experienced builders to allow groups to go out in haphazard clusters to make their own interpretation of the recommended modification for way point x and take a shot at the job. The LM wants it done properly. The only sensible system is adopt a trail. Experienced trailworkers select their trail and arrange their own work schedule, tools and their own team.

    The system should work in any moderate to large trail network. It is worth considering, not the least because it really draws the team together from LM down.
    ON TOPIC , ON TOPIC , ON TOPIC , ON TOPIC , ON TOPIC , ON TOPIC , ON TOPIC , ON TOPIC , ON TOPIC , ON TOPIC , ON TOPIC , ON TOPIC , ON TOPIC , ON TOPIC , ON TOPIC , ON TOPIC , ON TOPIC , ON TOPIC , ON TOPIC , ON TOPIC , ON TOPIC ,

    Thank-you Rip

  74. #174
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    Heater does not seem to be working well at the office this morning. Think management would object to Hot Toddies over Hot Chocolate at the work site?
    Currently at Mayo Clinic being tested for a kidney transplant. Donors welcome.

  75. #175
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    To hell with the internet. I am out the door and headed down the hill to Sedona. Time to ride, because that is what it's all about.

  76. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuctionGoat View Post
    To hell with the internet. I am out the door and headed down the hill to Sedona. Time to ride, because that is what it's all about.
    -4F in Flagstaff this morning and an predicted high of 52F in Sedona. No brainer. Unless you're a skier of course.

  77. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    -4F in Flagstaff this morning and an predicted high of 52F in Sedona. No brainer. Unless you're a skier of course.
    Meet at my place @ 11:30 AM were going out to do the Dry Creek Bonanza ride.

  78. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    My wife has left me in Sedona for the Christmas Holiday. I don't really celebrate the Christmas commercial shopping thing, but I do enjoy having mountain bikers over for a fun barbecue. Based on the party spirit of this thread, I thought maybe we could all get together for a Mountain Biking Celebration.

    I will buy the roast if 77Ranger puts together an Egg Nog party of silent passionate trail improvement specialists.
    Thanks for the invite but I'm a terrible party planner and if I invited all of my silent trail improvement specialist friends there would be way too much blow for me to handle. If I perfect my NOG recipe I could leave a growler down at OTE. The first batch was a little thick but it tasted great mixed with coffee!

  79. #179
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    Trail conditions were near ideal. Awesome, Awesome day. Stupid me forgot the camera.

  80. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    Meet at my place @ 11:30 AM were going out to do the Dry Creek Bonanza ride.
    I left you a sign on your rig. Nice out there.

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