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  1. #101
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    Forte Pisgah 26x2.3 usually on sale at Performance Bike for $25, front and back.

    I don't like paying a lot for tires most don't last that long (if they don't weigh a ton) or the sidewall rips before the tread is gone.

    These don't have a sidewall issue and hookup pretty good for loose over hardpack, very good tire for the money imo ...

    Official AZ Tire Thread-fortepisgah.jpg

  2. #102
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    It's so awesome that someone else mentioned the Pisgah. I *almost* brought it up in response to Raybum's comments of the Panaracer Rampage, because they have somewhat similar tread pattern and similar volume, but I erased the post because it was a 'budget' tire from 'the walmart of LBS'. I also have pretty limited experience with tires since getting back into MTB last year, and while *I* think it has worked well for me, I know my opinion is suspect.

    I have this tire on my front and have for a while. I think it's a pretty great tire, and since it can be snagged for $20-25, it's a killer value.
    I had a matching one on the back for a while and found the grip to be amazing when flipped 'backwards' with the square edges forward. But even with effectively zero comparisons I knew it rolled very slowly. The Geax Saguaro I have on the back now is a rocket by comparison, but nowhere near as grippy. Flipped the other way, with the ramps forward, I think the Pisah is a pretty capable tire- grips "well" and doesn't feel draggy rolling.

  3. #103
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    I think for a budget tire, those Pisgah's are great. I've worn out 3 of them (on the rear) and have had no major issues. The sidewalls are a little thin (I've cut them a few times) but usually the cut is small and either seals up on it's own or is a simple repair. They mount up tubeless well. Yeah, and on sale for $20 is a good deal. I kept one on a rear wheel that I use to bang around PMP on and it was solid.

  4. #104
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    Anyone try the Vittoria Barzo yet? Thinking about getting it as a rear and wanted some local AZ feedback if there is any...

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by MountainMike11 View Post
    Anyone try the Vittoria Barzo yet? Thinking about getting it as a rear and wanted some local AZ feedback if there is any...
    I did not know about that one. Looks promising. I am curious if a TNT will FIT on a Stans CREST or ARCH hoop. In the past the non TNT (saguaro) versions have been known for sidewall tears (personal experience) and the TNT version was VERY difficult, if not IMPOSSIBLE to get on a Stans hoop. So I would only want to run the TNT version (for sidewall protection).
    "You either want to or you don't."

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtbyte View Post
    I did not know about that one. Looks promising. I am curious if a TNT will FIT on a Stans CREST or ARCH hoop. In the past the non TNT (saguaro) versions have been known for sidewall tears (personal experience) and the TNT version was VERY difficult, if not IMPOSSIBLE to get on a Stans hoop. So I would only want to run the TNT version (for sidewall protection).
    Two Wheel Jones carries them and next time I am there I'll have to ask them about the Stans rims and TNT. I hear that's a pretty common thing with their difficult mounting and wondering if they have solved that with their new tires.

    If I find anything out I'll post back.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by MountainMike11 View Post
    Two Wheel Jones carries them and next time I am there I'll have to ask them about the Stans rims and TNT. I hear that's a pretty common thing with their difficult mounting and wondering if they have solved that with their new tires.

    If I find anything out I'll post back.
    Thanks! I appreciate it. If the TNT will fit on a Stans hoop, I may just give one a try once my Ikon wears out. By the way, switched to the Ardent Race on the front for the Whiskey, and I love it. Just a little more aggressive tread pattern than the Ikon, with not too much of a weight / rolling resistance penalty.
    "You either want to or you don't."

  8. #108
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    I've heard the TNT versions are a no-go with stans rims. Even if you could muscle them on, I'd hate to do a trailside fix and have to deal with that. The other thing that concerns me with super tight tires is that they will drop the tension in your spokes. Rims like crests already have a fairly low limit (100kgf) and when you look at a dished wheel, the NDS spokes are already pretty low tension. (since the DS are usually set at 100kgf by the builder). Add a really tight tire and you may have some pretty loose spokes. Arch EX's have a limit of 125kgf so not so much of a concern there since the preload is higher. (ok, just so ya know, I'm a mechanical engineer and geek out about this stuff).
    I know lots of you guys run a 2.2 tire on front. Personally, I just love the look and confidence that I get with a big front tire like a 2.35 rampage or ikon.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtbyte View Post
    I did not know about that one. Looks promising. I am curious if a TNT will FIT on a Stans CREST or ARCH hoop. In the past the non TNT (saguaro) versions have been known for sidewall tears (personal experience) and the TNT version was VERY difficult, if not IMPOSSIBLE to get on a Stans hoop. So I would only want to run the TNT version (for sidewall protection).
    I've run a few different TNT tires like the Saguaro and Goma on both Crest and Arch (27.5 and 29) and have never had any issues mounting the tires by hand without using levers. I think it's all in the technique though I don't know what I do differently that makes it easy to install. Saguaro is one of my favorite XC front tires. Very predictable.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raybum View Post
    The other thing that concerns me with super tight tires is that they will drop the tension in your spokes. Rims like crests already have a fairly low limit (100kgf) and when you look at a dished wheel, the NDS spokes are already pretty low tension. (since the DS are usually set at 100kgf by the builder). Add a really tight tire and you may have some pretty loose spokes.
    I've never thought about tires influencing the spoke tension. Is this theoretical or do you have data on this? Now I'm curious and am going to have to measure the spoke tension with and w/o the tire on the next time I change the tire.

    Maybe I should finally read The Art of Wheel Building book I have...

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by sloonz View Post
    I've never thought about tires influencing the spoke tension. Is this theoretical or do you have data on this? Now I'm curious and am going to have to measure the spoke tension with and w/o the tire on the next time I change the tire.

    Maybe I should finally read The Art of Wheel Building book I have...
    Yeah, my mind explodes when I think about the logistics of this ...
    "You either want to or you don't."

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy_E View Post
    Right now I'm running a Maxxis High Roller II in the front, and a Vittoria Saguaro in the rear. Haven't ridden the Saguaro yet. Here's hoping the Saguaro lasts as long as people say it does.
    I just put on a Saguaro (still Geax branded) on the back. After 3 rides and about 45-50 miles I think it's a really excellent tire for the XC/trail-ish rides. It's practically built for Desert Classic, CCCC, PSP or Browns. Great hook up and fast roll. I bet it's a good BCT tire. In my experience it struggles with traction on punchy climbs, in moderately deep sand, and I can't get it to hook for shit negotiating tech features like rock steps. I couldn't climb without spinning out on Irregular Link and/or VOAZ, and at several points at Deems. I'll hold out to see on Sunday how it performs in Sedona on Hangover/Huckaby, but I'm not optimistic.

    I do think it'll wear well. 50 miles and there's virtually no evidence it's even been ridden other than dusty.
    I'm almost certain this tire will be moved to my ancient Stumpjumper SS in the next few days and replaced with something more aggressive.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by sloonz View Post
    I've never thought about tires influencing the spoke tension. Is this theoretical or do you have data on this? Now I'm curious and am going to have to measure the spoke tension with and w/o the tire on the next time I change the tire.

    Maybe I should finally read The Art of Wheel Building book I have...
    both theoretical and empirical....I have a park tension gage and have checked them w and w/o tires. if you go on the wheels and tire forum, there's a bunch of threads about it.
    I used to like Saguaro's for a rear tire..picked up some for a great price but found they wore out fast. The side knobs get undercut and it loses traction...I know we all have different limits of when a tire is worn out, but I'd get maybe 500 miles (on the rear) before it was toast. I wore out about 5 of them and all were folding, but not TNT. When new, it's a great tire and I think if you could score them for $30, the cost per mile is good. (btw, I've only ridden them on the rear of a SS).

  14. #114
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    Interesting reading here. For years my favorite tire on my SS 29'r was the WTB Weirwolf 2.5 LT. Ran it front and rear at 18-20 psi on Flows. For comparison, I'm 180# riding in AZ terrain. When they beefed it up, I quit riding it.

    Have been using the Maxxis Ardent 2.4 up front and love it. It's a burly tire that can take our terrain and hold in sand and rocks.

    Tried the Ignitor on the rear and tore 2 sidewalls within a week. Scrap that idea!

    Also ran the Kenda Honey Badger 2.35 on the rear for about 8 weeks until it wore out. Great traction and predictability, but the compound is way too soft for AZ terrain. Fast rolling tire.

    After reading threads about the Ikon 2.35 3C EXO blah blah, mounted one on a Flow, tubeless, for the rear. After 2 weeks and 200 miles, my thoughts are it's a great rolling tire that corners well and holds it's line in a variety of terrain. Good traction overall, but really suffers from spinning out on standing climbs. I started with 20psi and went as low as 18. At 18 it's not as bad, but still breaks free regularly. In regards to stiffness, it has one of the stiffest sidewalls of any tire I've run. I want to like this tire but am still not convinced. I'm sure when I get up north this summer that it will excel on the loamy and rocky terrain of the Mogollon.
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  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by ARandomBiker View Post
    I just put on a Saguaro (still Geax branded) on the back. After 3 rides and about 45-50 miles I think it's a really excellent tire for the XC/trail-ish rides. It's practically built for Desert Classic, CCCC, PSP or Browns. Great hook up and fast roll. I bet it's a good BCT tire. In my experience it struggles with traction on punchy climbs, in moderately deep sand, and I can't get it to hook for shit negotiating tech features like rock steps. I couldn't climb without spinning out on Irregular Link and/or VOAZ, and at several points at Deems. I'll hold out to see on Sunday how it performs in Sedona on Hangover/Huckaby, but I'm not optimistic.

    I do think it'll wear well. 50 miles and there's virtually no evidence it's even been ridden other than dusty.
    I'm almost certain this tire will be moved to my ancient Stumpjumper SS in the next few days and replaced with something more aggressive.
    I've put about 40 miles on it in Flagstaff and it seems like it's doing pretty well. Feels like it rolls with less effort, and I'm not noticing any different traction. Two rides in and it still has all those little hairs on it. I'm okay with the Saguaro for now.

  16. #116
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    So if you're spinning out 2.35 Ikon's on climbs do you think the Ardent Race might hook up better in the rear?

  17. #117
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    Official AZ Tire Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by azjonboy View Post
    After reading threads about the Ikon 2.35 3C EXO blah blah, mounted one on a Flow, tubeless, for the rear. After 2 weeks and 200 miles, my thoughts are it's a great rolling tire that corners well and holds it's line in a variety of terrain. Good traction overall, but really suffers from spinning out on standing climbs. I started with 20psi and went as low as 18. At 18 it's not as bad, but still breaks free regularly. In regards to stiffness, it has one of the stiffest sidewalls of any tire I've run. I want to like this tire but am still not convinced. I'm sure when I get up north this summer that it will excel on the loamy and rocky terrain of the Mogollon.
    I've been running the Ikon 2.2 in the rear on my SS for 2+ years, and absolutely love it. Has proven to be very durable for me, and rolls and hooks up well. I only have issues with spinning out on sandy climbs if it's steeper and pretty loose, and if I have too much PSI in it (>30). When I drop the PSI to sub-30, and watch my weight distribution, I don't have any spinning issues. I typically run 28-31 PSI in back, because I'm more worried about cutting a tire than low PSI. I'm 180 lbs without gear...
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  18. #118
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    Who's running a Chunky Monkey up front? I swapped the Ikon to the rear and I'm trying a Purg up front now but just ordered a CM 2.4 for the volume. I hear a lot of good things about the tread too. But, it's a tad heavy (920g). Waiting on it to arrive and plan to pick up an Ardent 2.4 also, just for comparison's sake.

  19. #119
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    What's everyone's feelings on ardent 2.4 vs dhf 2.35 as a front here?

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by aggrochooks View Post
    What's everyone's feelings on ardent 2.4 vs dhf 2.35 as a front here?
    DHF > Ardent, neither are good front tires in desert terrain.
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

  21. #121
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    On my second set of Spec Purgatory up front and Vredestein Black Panther Extreme in the rear. Very pleased so far. Confidence on corners and great climbing. 29"

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrwhlr View Post
    DHF > Ardent, neither are good front tires in desert terrain.
    Hmmm...I've never looked at that DHF (Minion), as I considered it more AM/Enduro-ish (vs XC).

    I was running an Ardent SC 2.25 on the front for a while, including for Old Pueblo, and I liked it. Handled a couple early and chossy pre-rides for the Whiskey pretty well. It wore out before the Whiskey, though, and I put a half-used Rampage 2.35 on the front, and was reminded how much I like that tire. It may roll a bit slower, and be a bit heavier, but it sure does handle well, and you can run a lower PSI.

    Based on Ray's advice above, as he's another endurance XC SS guy, and rides a lot in the PMP (which is harsh on tires), I am going to try an Ikon 3C EXO 2.35 up front. Ray says it hooks up better than you would think, from looking at it, and it's durable.

    Side note: As I've noted above, the ONLY rear tire I'll run is the Ikon 3C EXO 2.20. Very light, rolls great, hooks up well and has been durable as hell for me. 'Nuff said...

    As a FWIW, and because this all piqued my curiosity, here are the weights I came up with for the aforementioned tires (all Maxxis, except for the Rampage):
    - Minion DHF EXO, 60 TPI, 29 x 2.30 - 925g
    - Ardent EXO, 60 TPI, 29 x 2.40 - 805g
    - Ardent SC Folding, 60 TPI, 29 x 2.25 - 755g
    - Ardent EXO UST, 120 TPI, 29 x 2.25 - 885g (wow!)
    - Ikon 3C EXO, 120 TPI, 29 x 2.20 - 590g (my rear tire choice...look at that weight!)
    - Ikon 3C EXO, 120 TPI, 29 x 2.35 - 760g (gonna give this a try)
    - Panaracer Rampage Kevlar Folding, 60 TPI, 29 x 2.35 - 800g (less than I thought, but definitely more rolling resistance)

    EDIT: I should add, I run them all tubeless on a Stan's Flow front, and Arch rear.

    YMMV...
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  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by waltaz View Post
    Hmmm...I've never looked at that DHF (Minion), as I considered it more AM/Enduro-ish (vs XC).

    I was running an Ardent SC 2.25 on the front for a while, including for Old Pueblo, and I liked it. Handled a couple early and chossy pre-rides for the Whiskey pretty well. It wore out before the Whiskey, though, and I put a half-used Rampage 2.35 on the front, and was reminded how much I like that tire. It may roll a bit slower, and be a bit heavier, but it sure does handle well, and you can run a lower PSI.

    Based on Ray's advice above, as he's another endurance XC SS guy, and rides a lot in the PMP (which is harsh on tires), I am going to try an Ikon 3C EXO 2.35 up front. Ray says it hooks up better than you would think, from looking at it, and it's durable.

    Side note: As I've noted above, the ONLY rear tire I'll run is the Ikon 3C EXO 2.20. Very light, rolls great, hooks up well and has been durable as hell for me. 'Nuff said...

    As a FWIW, and because this all piqued my curiosity, here are the weights I came up with for the aforementioned tires (all Maxxis, except for the Rampage):
    - Minion DHF EXO, 60 TPI, 29 x 2.30 - 925g
    - Ardent EXO, 60 TPI, 29 x 2.40 - 805g
    - Ardent SC Folding, 60 TPI, 29 x 2.25 - 755g
    - Ardent EXO UST, 120 TPI, 29 x 2.25 - 885g (wow!)
    - Ikon 3C EXO, 120 TPI, 29 x 2.20 - 590g (my rear tire choice...look at that weight!)
    - Ikon 3C EXO, 120 TPI, 29 x 2.35 - 760g (gonna give this a try)
    - Panaracer Rampage Kevlar Folding, 60 TPI, 29 x 2.35 - 800g (less than I thought, but definitely more rolling resistance)

    EDIT: I should add, I run them all tubeless on a Stan's Flow front, and Arch rear.

    YMMV...
    wow, that ardent SC 2.25 is actually lighter than the ikon 2.35? feels about 2x heavier while pedaling vs the ikon.

  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pac8541 View Post
    Who's running a Chunky Monkey up front? I swapped the Ikon to the rear and I'm trying a Purg up front now but just ordered a CM 2.4 for the volume. I hear a lot of good things about the tread too. But, it's a tad heavy (920g). Waiting on it to arrive and plan to pick up an Ardent 2.4 also, just for comparison's sake.
    I've run the CM up front and have been pleased with it (on a rigid SS previously in Southern AZ and now Prescott). It's definitely big and heavy. It's also durable, cheap and provides better traction up front than the Ardent 2.4 it replaced. It's a bit more tire than I probably need for most of Prescott's XC-type trails but for southern AZ, Tucson, and PHX it would be a solid choice. If you have to ride pavement to the trailhead they are loud and slow.
    I also ran its little brother the Smorgasborg out back and had similar thoughts there. I'd often use that combo as an everyday and/or training tire. When an AZ Endurance Series event or epic rides event comes up I'd switch to an Ardent front/Ikon or Ignitor rear, they give me the brief illusion of being quick.

  25. #125
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    Pisgah's are made by Panaracer, so despite the budget vendor....I ran them a lot on the AZT in southern AZ and in my first AZT attempt.




  26. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maadjurguer View Post
    Pisgah's are made by Panaracer, so despite the budget vendor....I ran them a lot on the AZT in southern AZ and in my first AZT attempt.
    Good to know. Any durability issues?

    BTW, a quick search shows that the 29'er Pisgah is a 2.20, and is 60 TPI and 643g. That's really light, and a bonus if it is durable and hooks up well. Also $30 online at Performance.
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  27. #127
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    Walt...honestly, if durability is a big concern, the pisgah's in my opinion are not as durable as the Ikons Exo's... I have an extra set of rims that I use for beating around PMP on which I have a pisgah(rear). I've cut them a number of times, not huge cuts, but one that required some time for Stans to seal or leaked slowly enough that I patched the inside at home. (not cut all the way through the cords). They get a little threadbare over time, but still seal up well on Stans rims. They're not a very fast rolling tire on the rear. Never ran them on front simply because of all the other great choices. My primary reason for running them is simply to be more cost effective for "backyard" training miles. At less than half the cost of ikon exo's, it's a fairly compelling argument. I will run them again to preserve my little stockpile of Ikon's, but only for local stuff where I can extract myself easily in case of a major slice.
    That's my experience...I know James has run them (as he mentioned) and JeffZ runs them on the rear as well. If cut tires drive you nuts and a few extra $ is worth it to you for durability, stick with what you have.
    Again, just my opinion based on my experiences.

  28. #128
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    Some pics to show the little slices on them...again, didn't completely flat the tire, just caused me to have to reinflate a few times during the ride...all 4 of these are on one tire.
    Official AZ Tire Thread-photo-1-.jpgOfficial AZ Tire Thread-photo-2-.jpgOfficial AZ Tire Thread-photo-3-.jpgOfficial AZ Tire Thread-photo-4-.jpg

  29. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raybum View Post
    Walt...honestly, if durability is a big concern, the pisgah's in my opinion are not as durable as the Ikons Exo's.
    Yep, that's my #1 concern...drives me INSANE! That's why I've ended up on the Ikon's, because they are durable. I might do the same as you, if T100 or the McD's was my back yard, but Hawes is much more tire-friendly.

    I was looking at them as a front tire, but agree that there are better options...starting with the 2.35 Ikon that I can't wait to install when the Rampage wears out!
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  30. #130
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    Lightweight XC balloons are fine for XC.
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

  31. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by idaz View Post
    I've run the CM up front and have been pleased with it (on a rigid SS previously in Southern AZ and now Prescott). It's definitely big and heavy. It's also durable, cheap and provides better traction up front than the Ardent 2.4 it replaced. It's a bit more tire than I probably need for most of Prescott's XC-type trails but for southern AZ, Tucson, and PHX it would be a solid choice. If you have to ride pavement to the trailhead they are loud and slow.
    I also ran its little brother the Smorgasborg out back and had similar thoughts there. I'd often use that combo as an everyday and/or training tire. When an AZ Endurance Series event or epic rides event comes up I'd switch to an Ardent front/Ikon or Ignitor rear, they give me the brief illusion of being quick.
    Thanks for the feedback. Definitely like the price on the CM and the firsthand experience is worth that alone, and then some. But, due to the weight of the CM I'm still gonna give the Ardent a shot and probably the HR2 as well since it falls between the 2 in grams. I'm sure it's the battle we all fight: ultimate grip, tough sidewalls, low rolling resistance, compliant volume, lowest weight possible. Some of these seem to be mutually exclusive.

    The big Ikon was a pretty fantastic front tire. I was very impressed, given my neophyte knowledge. But I've found that as my skills progress, and at this point the learning curve is steep, I'm liking the idea of a more aggressive and positive front. Perhaps it's mental but like most skill-based activities, personal confidence goes a very long way. And I just don't find the right brand of comfort without trying it out for myself so I'm gonna spend a little extra money and effort and try many of these tires myself then come to a decision that's best for me. For now, the Purg is doing well just wish it had a tad more volume. Once the CM arrives, it's going on and we'll see how that feels.

  32. #132
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    Idea! Tire Sale

    Performance is having their memorial day sale and have the pisgah for $20 at the moment.

    Forté Pisgah 29x2.2 Folding Mountain Tire

    there are others on sale as well.

    Pretty much the whole internet has their tires on sale at the moment at least 20% off...

    so good time to check it out if you haven't already.

  33. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raybum View Post
    Some pics to show the little slices on them...
    Man those are hammered. How many miles?

    I'll take a few pics of my Pisgahs tonight and edit this post. They look nothing like that, but I'm not on a SS. I've ridden all over the state, Sedona, Flag, Prescott, and nasty stuff here like PMP and White tanks on the regular. I've also not had any issues with sidewalls.

    Here's the pics of my Pisgahs after I'd estimate 600-650 miles. Mostly PSP, Dreamy Draw, Deems and BCT. A few Sedona rides, a trip to Prescott or two, and once to Goat Camp.
    Cannondale Prophet, 1x10 set up, rider weight of 160 trail ready. Running 24-25 psi F/R. Tubeless with Stans Tape and sealant. No tears, no burps.
    Rear:
    Official AZ Tire Thread-image.jpg
    Official AZ Tire Thread-image.jpg
    Front:
    Official AZ Tire Thread-image.jpg
    Official AZ Tire Thread-image.jpg
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  34. #134
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    Mine were about 600 miles... yeah, they were beat up pretty good. I wonder if the 26" version holds up better. Looks like there is a bit more rubber covering the sidewalls plus the tread is even in better shape.

  35. #135
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    Those of you running the HR2 up front, what kind of pressures are you finding best? I'm 170lbs, ride trail/XC, conditions are extremely dry, rocky, a lot of loose over hardpack, and its on a hardtail.

  36. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pac8541 View Post
    Those of you running the HR2 up front, what kind of pressures are you finding best? I'm 170lbs, ride trail/XC, conditions are extremely dry, rocky, a lot of loose over hardpack, and its on a hardtail.
    I'm 200# without gear and I just put a HR2 EXO on back and have found after my second ride that with the thinner sidewall (coming from a true UST HR) I burped it at 32#. Got it at 40# now so hopefully it won't burp again.

    Would love to hear what pressures others are running the EXO casing at.

  37. #137
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    Damn. Burping at 32#... Mine's the 3C exo TR and thus far, with the tires I've been using up front, I've had best success at 10lbs or so lower than that. No issues whatsoever but, I'm not an aggressive rider, relatively speaking. It feels aggressive to me cuz maybe I did that corner faster or went through a rocky section more quickly but I'm not a downhiller/enduro/FR superstar by any stretch. I just want good grip and a solid feel in the corners. The RaRa the bike came with, big Ikon, and Spesh Purg all left me less than thrilled in the front although, the last couple rides on the purg seemed to be better than previous. I think I hit the sweet spot with pressure and my skills have improved so maybe its less tire and more technique. Regardless, I was never able to establish real confidence with it. Loved the Ikon until things got loose then it just didn't have the bite I needed. But on hardpack and even rocky stuff it was pretty awesome. Not finding it quite as good on the rear as it seems to slip a lot on steep climbs but again, probably more about technique and where my weight is than tire failure.

    Anyway, I'm gonna start around 25 with the HR2 and see how it feels/performs. The sweet spot for the Purg seemed to be 18-20 but like others have mentioned elsewhere, you can't assume whats good for one tire will be good for all so I'll bump it up a little at first. The HR2 doesn't seem to have that "fall into the corner" feeling the Purg did, not as much anyway. That's a nice discovery. I'm not bad ass enough to find that comfortable yet.

  38. #138
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    On the front I have a High Roller UST and I run it at around 25#. If you FEEL the two tires and compress them they both feel about the same with the HR at 25# and the HR2 EXO at closer to 35#. I know the FEEL test is not a great method which is why we use gauges. Which is why it's more frustrating to NOT be able to have any correlation whatsoever between two tires.

  39. #139
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    First ride on the HR2 at 25lbs, quickly reduced to 22 then settled at 20. Best tire I've used yet. Actually saved a washout when I tried a particular corner a little hotter than usual. Diggin it big time. I bought this tire last week cuz I got tired of waiting on the CM to get here from England. Of course, that tire showed up in today's mail...

    Gonna continue to run the HR2 for a bit before swapping it out.

  40. #140
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    Okay, my Bontrager XR-1 on the front, has got to go. Too much slip, not enough grip in the corners.

    So, as a true Clydesdale, 230+ with gear, I want to upgrade my front tire. I ride mostly XC, 90% in the valley, and Prescott after that.

    After reading this thread, what do you think about either Ikon in 2.35, or a Schwalbe Hans Dampf? I'm already a slow climber, so I'm not trying to slow myself down any further, but I really need a better cornering tire.

    I'm open to other recommendations, as well. Like my maybe a Barzo?
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  41. #141
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    WTB Vigilante 2.3 has been amazing for me on Phoenix trails this year.

  42. #142
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    You won't be dissapointed in the ikon 2.35 exo tr 3c.... WAY lighter than that Vigilante.
    Panaracer Rampage albeit slower rolling, is still a solid front tire at a reasonable weight.
    Guys like the Maxxis Ardent 2.4 on front too...

  43. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raybum View Post
    You won't be dissapointed in the ikon 2.35 exo tr 3c.... WAY lighter than that Vigilante.
    Panaracer Rampage albeit slower rolling, is still a solid front tire at a reasonable weight.
    Guys like the Maxxis Ardent 2.4 on front too...
    I noticed WTB tires were pretty heavy. I looked at the Ardent, but it seems a little overkill for mostly XC stuff, or am I wrong?
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  44. #144
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    I would NOT run a regular Ardent on the rear if maximizing speed is a desire. Might wear like iron, but there are faster choices. I know guys that love them up front though. Probably overkill for pemberton, browns ranch, and the like, but good for the chunkier stuff.

  45. #145
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    How about the xr4?

  46. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by darth biker View Post
    How about the xr4?
    Interesting. Haven't seen one in a shop, but it looks, and gets reviewed like a good choice.
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  47. #147
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    Anyone riding the Minion SS in the rear? If so, what do you think of it?

  48. #148
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    Tire choices are changing so fast...we have so many more good choices now vs when this thread was started.
    My go-to choice for my SS w a suspension fork is either-
    1.Front: Ardent Race 2.35 or Ikon 2.35...the Ikon 2.35 is a substantially larger casing
    2. Rear: Ikon 2.2 or Ardent Race 2.2

    For my Rigid SS, I've been running a 3" Chupacabra with a carbon fork...love that setup for smoother type courses or lots of forest roads.

    The minion SS looks a little heavy but might be a great cornering tire with those big edge knobs.

  49. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gun View Post
    Anyone riding the Minion SS in the rear? If so, what do you think of it?
    Yes. It is what I run on my 5010v2. I will continue to do so.

  50. #150
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    Raybum - Thanks for the update on your tire choices.

    Scotth72 - Thanks for your comment. I may try the Minion SS in the rear too. I had never heard of a 5010V2 so I goggled it. Nice bike!

    I am actually thinking of trying the Minion SS in the rear with a Michelin Wild RockíR2 Advanced Reinforced Magi-X up front, but I may go "safe" and do an Ikon 2.2 in the rear and the Ikon 2.35 in the front as this seems to be a recommended setup. My bike is a hardtail with a suspension fork on 29s and I typically ride the Phx Sonoran Preserve.

  51. #151
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    I have been pleased with Geax Goma's this spring/summer.
    I ran 26x2.4 on my FS bike and 29x2.25 (rear) and 29x2.25 and 29x2.4(front) on my SS. They wouldn't be my first choice for Brown's ranch, but they've held up really well on the trashed rocky trails at Dreamy Draw and and Sonoran gateway. They're heavy, but they roll well, have great traction, and most importantly (for me) aren't prone to sidewall cuts.

    Prior to the Goma's on my SS I ran 29x2.25 Barzos. OK for Apache Wash and Browns, but I killed them in a handful of rides at T100. Wouldn't actually recommend those for the PHX area unless you were only riding the smooth stuff.

  52. #152
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    Warning - thread resurrection...

    Since there hasn't been a lot of chatter around tires lately, yet i didn't want to get flamed for starting a new thread to ask a question;

    Has anyone used the Ardent RACE 2.35 as a front tire around here? I'm talking about for Hawes, Browns, Sonoran, etc type of trails. As much as I'd like to be extra EnduroTM and go full DHF/DHRII, the sad truth of the matter is that I don't ride in those SoMo-ish conditions enough to drag that much weight around the other 99% of the time. I'm looking at Ardent Race 2.35 Front and Ikon 2.35 rear on my 5010c.

    Thanks for any input...
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  53. #153
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    Honestly I like my 2.35 Ikon as front tire for my HT bikes. I like the feel and grip. I don't like it as a rear tire not due to grip, but side wall cut resistance. I have found the bontrager XR3 team in 2.2 or 2.35 work well. Very durable sidewalls, good wear, good weight and reasonable rolling resistance.

    My 5010 however is running High Rollers in front and a Hans Dampf in the rear. Big meats with great grip not really suited to XC terrain due to the weight. However I use that as my gnar bike so I am happy with beefier tires. Not sold on the Ardent Race at all, but also have no direct input. Maybe XR3 front and rear?
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  54. #154
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    My friend runs those on his SS front and rear, and loves 'em. He rides mostly Sonoran, but when we ride McDowell, or Browns, he never complains about 'em. He's almost worn 'em out, and he says he'll be getting another set to replace 'em.
    I need a cool saying to put here.

  55. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoePAz View Post
    Honestly I like my 2.35 Ikon as front tire for my HT bikes. I like the feel and grip. I don't like it as a rear tire not due to grip, but side wall cut resistance. I have found the bontrager XR3 team in 2.2 or 2.35 work well. Very durable sidewalls, good wear, good weight and reasonable rolling resistance.

    My 5010 however is running High Rollers in front and a Hans Dampf in the rear. Big meats with great grip not really suited to XC terrain due to the weight. However I use that as my gnar bike so I am happy with beefier tires. Not sold on the Ardent Race at all, but also have no direct input. Maybe XR3 front and rear?
    I have used XR3 front and rear on my 29"er HT in the past, the remind me a lot of the Ikon.

    Thanks for the input!


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  56. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevhogaz View Post
    My friend runs those on his SS front and rear, and loves 'em. He rides mostly Sonoran, but when we ride McDowell, or Browns, he never complains about 'em. He's almost worn 'em out, and he says he'll be getting another set to replace 'em.
    Thanks Kevin, hope all is well!


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  57. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoePAz View Post
    Honestly I like my 2.35 Ikon as front tire for my HT bikes. I like the feel and grip. I don't like it as a rear tire not due to grip, but side wall cut resistance. I have found the bontrager XR3 team in 2.2 or 2.35 work well. Very durable sidewalls, good wear, good weight and reasonable rolling resistance.

    My 5010 however is running High Rollers in front and a Hans Dampf in the rear. Big meats with great grip not really suited to XC terrain due to the weight. However I use that as my gnar bike so I am happy with beefier tires. Not sold on the Ardent Race at all, but also have no direct input. Maybe XR3 front and rear?
    I keep hearing about the Ikon having side wall issues here in Phx. Is it the 120tpi, or the total weight, or riding style, the trails (T100/Somo), or combination of all of it? Are HT more rough on rear tires than FS?

    I have a 2.2 Ikon exo on the rear now, have 1 ride at Sonoran Preserve and 1 ride at T100, nice and casual riding on a FS. I think I like it but would rather not have to mess with a cut on the side of a trail.

  58. #158
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    Can we please make this a sticky?

  59. #159
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    I have been using a 2.35 ikon on the rear on a Mach 429sl in Tucson in the Starr Pass area for the last 4 months with rides between 2 and 4 times a week. Absolutely no issues with sidewall. I think have have the 3c EXO max Tierra or whatever the acronym is. Tread is not what it used to be. I don't think I'll ever run a different rear tire on that bike.


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  60. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by ljcap View Post
    I keep hearing about the Ikon having side wall issues here in Phx. Is it the 120tpi, or the total weight, or riding style, the trails (T100/Somo), or combination of all of it? Are HT more rough on rear tires than FS?

    I have a 2.2 Ikon exo on the rear now, have 1 ride at Sonoran Preserve and 1 ride at T100, nice and casual riding on a FS. I think I like it but would rather not have to mess with a cut on the side of a trail.
    I have issues because when they cut the create a long cut that is hard to fix. They don't cut terribly often. For me it is the rear that is the issue. I believe it has to do with my riding style. As for the Ikon on the rear... just keep riding with it and wear it out. No sense it getting rid of a good tire. If it cuts then just tube it with a boot and finish the ride. I personally won't buy an Ikon for the rear any longer. However one my bikes has a 2.2 on the rear now. It came on the used wheel set I bought. It actually has large cut in the sidewall that was fixed. I will keep running till I cut it again or tread is done.
    Joe
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  61. #161
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    Anyone have any experience with the Vittoria Morsa 2.3? I've searched the thread(s) and can't find it mentioned anywhere...but I saw quite a few at Rage so I assume someone must be running them...
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  62. #162
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    I bet the Morsa is good. It's kind of a mix of the Goma and Barzo.
    I didn't like the dead spot at moderate lean of my Goma on the front, but I like it a lot on the back. the Barzo is a great tread for the front. it's a small 2.25 and is kinda fragile for PMP, but it grips. I would think a Morsa might make a good front. Especially if it's a big 2.3.

    I'm curious about the Morsa.
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  63. #163
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    Also, since I'm posting here:
    My two Nobby Nic 29x2.6 tires shipped from Germany today. Will report back when I have them in hand, and again when I have miles on them.
    Donít modify the trail to match your skills, modify your skills to match the trails.

  64. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by ARandomBiker View Post
    Also, since I'm posting here:
    My two Nobby Nic 29x2.6 tires shipped from Germany today. Will report back when I have them in hand, and again when I have miles on them.
    YES, very interested in hearing about those. Please keep this thread updated!
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  65. #165
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    I've got 120 miles on a Nobby Nic Pacestar and it's holding up pretty good. Certainly hasn't been shredded in one ride, like I was told it would!!

    It's been to San Tan, McDowell (Pemberton & Comp Loops), Sonoran, and Prescott. Bike is a Pivot 429, and I'm a fat ass if that matters?

    I need a cool saying to put here.

  66. #166
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    I'm excited by that. I've only seen one review where the tester was in the SW, he lives in Co, so I hoped they would hold up. Yours seem to be exactly what I wanted to hear.
    That tire looks good for a 120mile old rear.

    I ordered 2 PaceStars, I'll sacrifice a little grip for longevity.
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  67. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by ARandomBiker View Post
    I'm excited by that. I've only seen one review where the tester was in the SW, he lives in Co, so I hoped they would hold up. Yours seem to be exactly what I wanted to hear.
    That tire looks good for a 120mile old rear.

    I ordered 2 PaceStars, I'll sacrifice a little grip for longevity.
    I haven't noticed any real lack of traction with the Pacestar compound. A lot of the climbs I do are short, steep, and loose. I haven't noticed any real slippage, even standing. Corners pretty good, too. Doesn't do anything funny, or slide around a lot.
    I need a cool saying to put here.

  68. #168
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    Ok, here's an update my Nobby Nic rear tire. According to STRAVA, I've got 268.7 miles on this as a rear tire. I've ridden it almost everywhere in the valley, and it's been to Prescott a few times, and most recently Dead Horse Ranch in Cottonwood. So, it's seen some rocks, shale, and it's share of loose over hard.

    Overall, it's been a great tire. Traction pretty much everywhere, holds it own under braking, and never gave me any trouble. In it's current state, I'd say it's pretty much done. I could hear it searching for traction on Escondido this morning, and under hard braking it's pretty much worthless. But, for a tire that should've been replaced about 50 miles ago, I'd say it did pretty good. It most impressed me with it's ability to find traction, pretty much anywhere. I'm a fat a$$, and gravity does it best to pull me backwards on hills, and the Nobby Nic never left me walking.

    Here's what it looks like now. you can search for my previous post, when the tire was at 100 miles.

    Overall condition:


    Leading edge:


    Knobs:


    Sidewall:


    I have all kinds of holes in the tread area, and after it sits the wet spots get a lot bigger. There's a lot of 'em, too!!


    Now, it's time for new tires!!
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  69. #169
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    About to place an order for a new front after a Minion DHF wouldn't seat tubeless on my AC rims.... Even a shop couldn't get it
    Looking at a new Nobby Nic 29 2.2 or a Mountain King.
    Wanting something "relatively" light, but still holds up. I'm used to running Seguaros, but lately haven't had the traction I want.

    Any thoughts on those two? Muchos gracias!
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  70. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoomingSooner View Post
    About to place an order for a new front after a Minion DHF wouldn't seat tubeless on my AC rims.... Even a shop couldn't get it
    Looking at a new Nobby Nic 29 2.2 or a Mountain King.
    Wanting something "relatively" light, but still holds up. I'm used to running Seguaros, but lately haven't had the traction I want.

    Any thoughts on those two? Muchos gracias!
    The Conti's I had before I bought the Schwalbe's leaked sealant out of the sidewalls like crazy. I had an X-king and a Mountain King, and both had the leak problem.

    No problems with the Schwalbe's, and I'm running Nobby Nic 2.6 on my SS, and love 'em!!
    I need a cool saying to put here.

  71. #171
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    If you use Stan's or home brew based on Stan;s the conti's will weep like mad so don't get them.

  72. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by blaklabl View Post
    Warning - thread resurrection...

    Since there hasn't been a lot of chatter around tires lately, yet i didn't want to get flamed for starting a new thread to ask a question;

    Has anyone used the Ardent RACE 2.35 as a front tire around here? I'm talking about for Hawes, Browns, Sonoran, etc type of trails. As much as I'd like to be extra EnduroTM and go full DHF/DHRII, the sad truth of the matter is that I don't ride in those SoMo-ish conditions enough to drag that much weight around the other 99% of the time. I'm looking at Ardent Race 2.35 Front and Ikon 2.35 rear on my 5010c.

    Thanks for any input...
    I have used AR 2.35 in the front and Ikon 2.2 in the rear. It works really well for me pretty much all over AZ, but mainly XC desert stuff like Brown's or Sonoran. The bike is SS hardtail.

    Tire choice really depends on bike GEO, riding style, suspension, terrain, body weight, etc.
    Riding style example - I put an Ikon on my wife's front wheel because she barely leans her bike in a corner thus the progressive nature of the knobbies suits her better. I use Ardent race for the front which has a side row of densely packed knobbies. Those tires need to be leaned hard for superior traction.
    Heavy riders riding slower may not need as much traction. Lighter riders riding aggressively may need more traction. Slacker bikes with shorter stems reduce weight on the front wheel and need more aggressive threads. Rim width has to be matched to tire width. And so on... basically the tire choice is complicated.

    BTW, I don't think Maxxis is more prone to sidewalls tears than any other tire. Side wall tears are very random events. I had a tear in every brand of a tire. There are years where I had no issues and then at times I had two tears in one months (after monsoons) Maxxis have been used extensively by endurance riders and many average riders. It's natural that you will hear about more tears in Maxxis because on average riders put more miles on those tires than any other brand.

  73. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by metalaficionado View Post
    I have used AR 2.35 in the front and Ikon 2.2 in the rear. It works really well for me pretty much all over AZ, but mainly XC desert stuff like Brown's or Sonoran. The bike is SS hardtail.
    I agree, though i was really digging the Crossmark II 2.1 on the rear over the ikon for BR and the Mcdowells before my recent downtime.

    Having tried all sorts of maxxis combos with the ikons, Ardent race and Crossmarks, I found the Ardent Race 2.2 front / CM2 on the rear had better grip vs the ikon 2.2 with very little rolling friction.

  74. #174
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    Maxxis without sidewall protection does not play well with Northern Arizona Andesite, Dacite and/or Basalt...just my consistent, multi-year experience.




  75. #175
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    Anyone using the Nobby Nic or Rocket Ron in 2.8 or 3.0 in Snakeskin?


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  76. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hulka View Post
    Anyone using the Nobby Nic or Rocket Ron in 2.8 or 3.0 in Snakeskin?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

    My bike came With NN 2.8 with snakeskin. Back tire got shredded quickly on the PMP. I am usually rough on my rear tire. On the front it has lasted well for 1000miles without a flat. In the rear I switched to 2.8 reckon and have been very happy with that front/back combo.

  77. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hulka View Post
    Anyone using the Nobby Nic or Rocket Ron in 2.8 or 3.0 in Snakeskin?


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    Been using 2.6 Nobby Nic's front and rear on my rigid single speed, with no complaints. Hook up even in the sand at San Tan, standing. Works good up front, too. No problems with grip in the corners.
    I need a cool saying to put here.

  78. #178
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    Thanks!


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  79. #179
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    The Schwalbe Hans Dampf might finally answer the question what tire for Browns ranch. Well at least for me. A little pricey though...
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  80. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by broncbuster View Post
    The Schwalbe Hans Dampf might finally answer the question what tire for Browns ranch. Well at least for me. A little pricey though...
    I just mounted up Bontrager XR2 2.6ís on my SS, and think that those will be perfect for Brownís.


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  81. #181
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    My gosh, surprised not more tire discussions, it is like riding on ball bearings in Yavapai...dry as heck and I am running a Maxxis Ikon in front.....ri god dang diculous.....
    Any suggestions on front 29er appreciated. Have an oldie but goodie tioga psycho genius in back, probably should switch....

  82. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by broncbuster View Post
    The Schwalbe Hans Dampf might finally answer the question what tire for Browns ranch. Well at least for me. A little pricey though...
    I have 3 of these that I will sell for half price.

    My riding is a highly aggressive rock garden affair, and a new FRONT tire (for me) that has just amazed me is the ONZA CITIUS 27.5x2.4 reinforced. Better gripping than anything I have used on the front (30 tires over a 20 year span) including the DHF in all shapes and sizes. Cannot destroy it either, so far, about 500 miles on one tire.
    Michael
    old guy

  83. #183
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    My recommendation was more for trail riding, loose over hard packed type stuff also has good dampening. I'M using the 27.5 x 2.35 speedgrip version which is for XC, AM and trail use. It comes in soft and ultra soft for DH and FR. What are the ones you have for sale?
    Quote Originally Posted by masterp2 View Post
    I have 3 of these that I will sell for half price.

    My riding is a highly aggressive rock garden affair, and a new FRONT tire (for me) that has just amazed me is the ONZA CITIUS 27.5x2.4 reinforced. Better gripping than anything I have used on the front (30 tires over a 20 year span) including the DHF in all shapes and sizes. Cannot destroy it either, so far, about 500 miles on one tire.

  84. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by broncbuster View Post
    My recommendation was more for trail riding, loose over hard packed type stuff also has good dampening. I'M using the 27.5 x 2.35 speedgrip version which is for XC, AM and trail use. It comes in soft and ultra soft for DH and FR. What are the ones you have for sale?
    HD supergravity Trailstar on the rear, 27.5x2.35. Magic Mary with the same casing on the front. It is a good combination for a shuttle bike, or reliability on National/Geronimo with the downhill weight penalty.
    Michael
    old guy

  85. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by masterp2 View Post
    HD supergravity Trailstar on the rear, 27.5x2.35. Magic Mary with the same casing on the front. It is a good combination for a shuttle bike, or reliability on National/Geronimo with the downhill weight penalty.
    They have four versions out now with the same tread but different compounds for the intended use. Supposedly all improved, they have a explanation in percent on four different aspects, not sure how that can be measured all that accurately though...

  86. #186
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    Anyone tried the Maxxis Aggressor 2.5 WT?

  87. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by GnarAF View Post
    Anyone tried the Maxxis Aggressor 2.5 WT?
    It's my go to rear tire. 2.5 is great - 2.3 is kinda crappy - DoubleDown needed IMHO

  88. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by GnarAF View Post
    Anyone tried the Maxxis Aggressor 2.5 WT?
    Been using a 2.3 on my Pivot, since that's all that'll fit in the rear, and I gotta say, I'm super impressed. Used it all over town, and even up at Gooseberry Mesa. Hooks up nice, no surprises, and traction is good.
    I need a cool saying to put here.

  89. #189
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    I've never tried the 2.5 yet, but I'm a fan of the 2.3 Aggressor.

    I'm currently running a Maxxis Griffin on the back of my SB6, a bit more rolling resistance and a bit more aggressive than the Aggressor but it's been working well.

    On my Hightower, I'm currently running an Ardent on the back. Mostly just because I have two that are practically new after selling my bikepacking bike. I have a DHF on the front and enjoy the combo for lighter duty trails. The Ardent spins up fast and I enjoy sliding it around the turns. Not sure I'd enjoy it as much on the rougher stuff tho.

    All that said, I think after I burn through the Ardents and the Griffin, I'll be going back to the DHF/Aggressor combo. It's still my favorite for Phoenix area trails.
    Hey guys, lets go play bieks!

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