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  1. #1
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    O/T (kind of) - Man starts Pinnacle Peak brush fire with fireworks

    Just read this and i'm shaking my head..............D



    A 21-year-old man started a brush fire on the Pinnacle Peak hiking trail after he set off fireworks on Monday, Scottsdale police said Tuesday.

    Joseph Viganola of New Jersey told officers that he was hiking the trail with a group of his friends when he decided to light consumer fireworks he had purchased. One of the flaming projectiles started a fire near the trail around the ¾-mile marker about 9:15 a.m., Scottsdale police said.

    Viganola poured his water bottle onto the fire to help control it. Other hikers who had heard the fireworks alerted the park stewards, who also helped put out the fire, police said.



    Read more:


    http://www.azcentral.com/community/s...orks-abrk.html

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    I am baffled as hell at all the fireworks for sale everywhere I go. The grocery store, the gas station, EVERYWHERE.
    Don't be that guy! Read the forum guidelines.

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    "Hey, I have a great idea, let's sell fireworks in the desert"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul B View Post
    I am baffled as hell at all the fireworks for sale everywhere I go. The grocery store, the gas station, EVERYWHERE.
    Me too! I can't believe all the fireworks tents in ever open lot!

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    Fireworks are great fun. Too bad there's so many stupid people unable to make sound decisions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DesertCrawler View Post
    Fireworks are great fun. Too bad there's so many stupid people unable to make sound decisions.
    YEP!!!!



  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by DesertCrawler View Post
    Fireworks are great fun. Too bad there's so many stupid people unable to make sound decisions.
    Okay, I have a really dumb question, but is there a safe way to sent off fireworks in AZ? I have to admit, I wasn't paying very close attention when the law was passed to allow the sale of fireworks. But I, personally, thought it was the stoopidiest decision ever made. Does anybody know the logic behind it, and what kind of safety precautions one should take when setting them off here? I don't know the details of the incident in question, but I personally know that I don't have the first idea of do's and don'ts when it comes to fireworks.
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    I pass the tent that he bought it at every day. tempted to go light one off in the tent. The law is stupid and a total sellout to business. Most cities don't allow fireworks, but legalizing the sale *wont* lead to them being used? These guys selling them are just as culpable, accessory towards destroying our state. I agree fireworks are fun, and when used responsibly are safe. but unless you are in a grass-filled park, where are you going to find somewhere safe in July in AZ??

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    Quote Originally Posted by chollaball View Post
    I pass the tent that he bought it at every day. tempted to go light one off in the tent. The law is stupid and a total sellout to business. Most cities don't allow fireworks, but legalizing the sale *wont* lead to them being used? These guys selling them are just as culpable, accessory towards destroying our state. I agree fireworks are fun, and when used responsibly are safe. but unless you are in a grass-filled park, where are you going to find somewhere safe in July in AZ??
    I was shocked to see places like Fry's and CostCo selling fireworks. So, is the law that they can sell them, but it's illegal to use them.

    Nonetheless, terrible law, and terrible timing IMO.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skinny-tire View Post
    Okay, I have a really dumb question, but is there a safe way to sent off fireworks in AZ? I have to admit, I wasn't paying very close attention when the law was passed to allow the sale of fireworks. But I, personally, thought it was the stoopidiest decision ever made. Does anybody know the logic behind it, and what kind of safety precautions one should take when setting them off here? I don't know the details of the incident in question, but I personally know that I don't have the first idea of do's and don'ts when it comes to fireworks.
    Know how the device in question works. Know your surroundings. Match device properties with surroundings. If you don't know one or the other, don't use them. Seems basic to me.

    My preference would be to eliminate the stupid people and leave freedom of choice to those responsible enough to use it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DesertCrawler View Post
    Know how the device in question works. Know your surroundings. Match device properties with surroundings. If you don't know one or the other, don't use them. Seems basic to me.

    My preference would be to eliminate the stupid people and leave freedom of choice to those responsible enough to use it.
    I should have prefaced my statement with an ancedote. About 25 years ago, I spent the fourth in the Florida Keys. On the way down, we picked up some fireworks, including bottle rockets, and those little tanks that fire sparklers. I put two tanks pointed at each other and lit them, so they fired upon each other. Little did I know a packet of bottle rockets was laying right next to them. Next thing I know, the bottle rockets are shooting all over the place, including into a crowd of people on the beach.

    That said, I say this with zero sarcasm: I'm one of those stupid people, which is why you won't find me 100 feet from fireworks.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  12. #12
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    If I don't catch anything on fire! Is the use of fireworks still stupid. Is this similar to the gun is bad but not the user? How can they have such wonderful fireworks shows each year, and not burn down the city?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cycle64 View Post
    How can they have such wonderful fireworks shows each year, and not burn down the city?
    You've obviously never seen the fireworks in Tucson. When I lived there, they caught A Mountain on fire every single year.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

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    At least when the pros light fireworks like on A mountain they have the fire department on hand to put them out right away.

    There is one safe time to light fireworks during a rainstorm.
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    Quote Originally Posted by skinny-tire View Post
    You've obviously never seen the fireworks in Tucson. When I lived there, they caught A Mountain on fire every single year.
    Let that stink hole burn.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cycle64 View Post
    Let that stink hole burn.
    Just gave you negative rep.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skinny-tire View Post
    Just gave you negative rep.
    You can't hurt me. I've already been mod slapped.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cycle64 View Post
    You can't hurt me. I've already been mod slapped.
    That's what you get for not following the rules.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skinny-tire View Post
    That's what you get for not following the rules.
    I thought the deal was you picked which rules you wanted to follow!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cycle64 View Post
    I thought the deal was you picked which rules you wanted to follow!
    Would be nice, but if we let folks decide which rules to follow or break, we'd burn down Pinnacle Peak.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by skinny-tire View Post
    Would be nice, but if we let folks decide which rules to follow or break, we'd burn down Pinnacle Peak.
    But crossing the border illegally is cool. That and smoking dope. I need a list of approved rules to break and one I not allowed to break. So I don't get hand slapped by the Nuns.

    PS: You still dabbing on the climb up porcupine?
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by skinny-tire View Post
    You've obviously never seen the fireworks in Tucson. When I lived there, they caught A Mountain on fire every single year.
    "They" also caught Hayden Butte (Tempe's "A" Mtn) on fire last month during one of the ASU graduation ceremonies.

    "They" manage to not burn down the city because the fire dept. is on hand, there are readily available water sources called fire hydrants and we build cities to be fairly fire resistant these days, seems there were lessons learned since that one dark night old Lady Leary's cow kick over the lantern.

    From what I understand, and I have not looked up the law, the only fireworks available are non-launching types. So no bottle rockets, but sparklers, "fountains", small "pop" types are okay. Cities can ban their use, but not their sale, which is pretty dumb.

    So you can't use them where it would be appropriate, say letting the kids run around with a sparkler in the yard, but you can use them outside of town, where everything is ready to go up like a roman candle.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cycle64 View Post
    But crossing the border illegally is cool. That and smoking dope. I need a list of approved rules to break and one I not allowed to break. So I don't get hand slapped by the Nuns.
    Don't forget speeding when no one is around. There is also ignoring stop signs on your road bike, riding in the cross walks and burning cars after your team loses the Stanley Cup final.
    "Nobody ever told me not to try" - Curious George Soundtrack by Jack Johnson

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noelg View Post
    Don't forget speeding when no one is around. There is also ignoring stop signs on your road bike, riding in the cross walks and burning cars after your team loses the Stanley Cup final.
    Told you I needed a list.
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Bart View Post
    "They" also caught Hayden Butte (Tempe's "A" Mtn) on fire last month during one of the ASU graduation ceremonies.

    "They" manage to not burn down the city because the fire dept. is on hand, there are readily available water sources called fire hydrants and we build cities to be fairly fire resistant these days, seems there were lessons learned since that one dark night old Lady Leary's cow kick over the lantern.

    From what I understand, and I have not looked up the law, the only fireworks available are non-launching types. So no bottle rockets, but sparklers, "fountains", small "pop" types are okay. Cities can ban their use, but not their sale, which is pretty dumb.

    So you can't use them where it would be appropriate, say letting the kids run around with a sparkler in the yard, but you can use them outside of town, where everything is ready to go up like a roman candle.
    this article from the Republic covered it in a little more detail.

    http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl...legal-use.html

    There are supposed to be labels as to what can be used, and what can't. but wtf sell em if you can't use them? Its just asking for problems, esp. since its illegal to use them, people are going to go out in the desert where no one is around to light them off? stupid stupid stupid.

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    I'd imagine the hardcore answer would be to determine the actual cost of fireworks-caused damage each year -- not just firefighting but also restoration -- each year and build that into the cost of the good via some sort of tax on the product. If the cost of fireworks was actually reflected in the cost of the item, it might be a whole lot more expensive.

    Or we look at the risk of seriously asymmetrical expenses incurred by a small minority of users but borne by the whole population, and decide it's not really in the public's interest to allow the risk.

    Personally I have no idea how to assess the cost/value of fire damage to a forest or desert. I sort of feel the same way about campfires any more. The responsible party can't bear the expense, the class of users in aggregate won't bear the expense, so why keep letting people take that risk when everyone has to pay for the f-up? :-(
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  27. #27
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    I'd put my eye out.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grave9 View Post
    YEP!!!!


    F*#&ing priceless.

    Quote Originally Posted by Noelg View Post
    burning cars after your team loses the Stanley Cup final.
    In my hometown, Detroit, it doesn't matter if you win or lose. You can only burn a car, truck or bus if you flip it over first. Hummers and police cars are the vehicle of choice for that one. Couches and any other furniture in the neighborhood is fare game, whether or not people are still on it...

    Seriously though, there was a guy who was selling fireworks in a tent at 17/260. When I stopped to talk to him, he was shocked that people were giving him sh*t for selling fireworks during extreme fire danger. Worse yet, he flashed his Fire Dept ID, and thought that would make people feel more comfortable! He told me he "only has $20K worth of merch left and will stop once its all sold until next fire season".
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul B View Post
    I'd imagine the hardcore answer would be to determine the actual cost of fireworks-caused damage each year -- not just firefighting but also restoration -- each year and build that into the cost of the good via some sort of tax on the product. If the cost of fireworks was actually reflected in the cost of the item, it might be a whole lot more expensive.

    Or we look at the risk of seriously asymmetrical expenses incurred by a small minority of users but borne by the whole population, and decide it's not really in the public's interest to allow the risk.

    Personally I have no idea how to assess the cost/value of fire damage to a forest or desert. I sort of feel the same way about campfires any more. The responsible party can't bear the expense, the class of users in aggregate won't bear the expense, so why keep letting people take that risk when everyone has to pay for the f-up? :-(

    well said Paul.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skinny-tire View Post
    Would be nice, but if we let folks decide which rules to follow or break, we'd burn down Pinnacle Peak.
    Saw that one coming and still made me giggle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skinny-tire View Post
    I should have prefaced my statement with an ancedote. About 25 years ago, I spent the fourth in the Florida Keys. On the way down, we picked up some fireworks, including bottle rockets, and those little tanks that fire sparklers. I put two tanks pointed at each other and lit them, so they fired upon each other. Little did I know a packet of bottle rockets was laying right next to them. Next thing I know, the bottle rockets are shooting all over the place, including into a crowd of people on the beach.

    That said, I say this with zero sarcasm: I'm one of those stupid people, which is why you won't find me 100 feet from fireworks.
    I doubt you are stupid. Bad things happen to good people, and now and then we all are subject to dumb moves illuminated by the clarity of retrospection. Human beans. My point was more questioning how far do we let rules guide us over. It is more of a rhetorical question, really, since what I believe is right may not be any better than what someone else believes, I just want people to think about it, and introduce some balance, is all.

    I want as few rules as is practical to maintain some semblance of order. I'll put up with the deviants in the skirts of the curve in order to enjoy an existence relatively unencumbered by other people's rules.

    All that from some young whippersnapper lighting ablaze our mountains in a moment of tom foolery, by gummininy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DesertCrawler View Post
    I doubt you are stupid. Bad things happen to good people, and now and then we all are subject to dumb moves illuminated by the clarity of retrospection. Human beans. My point was more questioning how far do we let rules guide us over. It is more of a rhetorical question, really, since what I believe is right may not be any better than what someone else believes, I just want people to think about it, and introduce some balance, is all.

    I want as few rules as is practical to maintain some semblance of order. I'll put up with the deviants in the skirts of the curve in order to enjoy an existence relatively unencumbered by other people's rules.

    All that from some young whippersnapper lighting ablaze our mountains in a moment of tom foolery, by gummininy.
    Oh, I know it was rhetorical. I guess the problem is, it's that .1% of the idiots who ruin it for the rest of us.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  33. #33
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    Curious. How many wildfires were started by a stupid person with fireworks compared to a stupid person not putting out a campfire or from lightning? Can we do a cost analyst on lighting strike fires versa fireworks fires? Also want to know how many Dh'rs were the cause of said fires.
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    Quote Originally Posted by skinny-tire View Post
    Oh, I know it was rhetorical. I guess the problem is, it's that .1% of the idiots who ruin it for the rest of us.
    Werd. The skirts. Not people that wear them. Some of my best friends wear skirts, and some of those are even female, and some are even human. It's true.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cycle64 View Post
    Curious. How many wildfires were started by a stupid person with fireworks compared to a stupid person not putting out a campfire or from lightning? Can we do a cost analyst on lighting strike fires versa fireworks fires? Also want to know how many Dh'rs were the cause of said fires.
    Wow. I'm not even sure what to say, I'm going to just walk away from this one.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona View Post
    Wow. I'm not even sure what to say, I'm going to just walk away from this one.
    Good, because I'm being super serious on the interweb again.
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    Either way, I think the end of my driveway (20 ft of concrete or pavement in all directions) is a lot safer than outside of the city limits.
    Yes, I'm the crazy christmas guy!

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    Had a similar discussion with a forestry fire watch worker a couple of weeks ago , he had an interesting perspective on lightning strikes and I'm sure much to his chagrin probably very busy right now -I always find it amazing that some of the propane BBQ contraptions allowed are ? allowed.....
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails O/T (kind of) - Man starts Pinnacle Peak brush fire with fireworks-img_2259.jpg  


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    Just like up in Globe they have them for sale but have a sign next to them saying illegal to set off in city limits. The tonto forest also has a ban.... So where does that leave them to legally light them off?? Nowhere....So why sell them ...just an forest fire waiting to happen
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    Quote Originally Posted by clockwork View Post
    The tonto forest also has a ban....
    Fireworks are illegal in all US forests! This is part of the reason why its so frustrating. Most cities in AZ don't allow them either.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grave9 View Post
    YEP!!!!



    Now that was damn funny!

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    You will notice that there are a lot less fireworks shows in the valley now and for the last 10 years or so.
    Super dry conditions are the culprit, so no entertainment for us.

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    but we get year round riding so who needs fireworks
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  44. #44
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    article about bans in Flagstaff.

    http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl...works-ban.html

    The best part: 'Anyone caught setting off fireworks faces a $500 fine and a bill for any costs resulting in crews fighting fires started by fireworks.'

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    Quote Originally Posted by clockwork View Post
    Just like up in Globe they have them for sale but have a sign next to them saying illegal to set off in city limits. The tonto forest also has a ban.... So where does that leave them to legally light them off?? Nowhere....So why sell them ...just an forest fire waiting to happen
    Mesa, of course.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by clockwork View Post
    but we get year round riding so who needs fireworks

    True!
    Sparks at night from occasional rock hits make up for no fireworks!

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