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  1. #1
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    NRA Pit on the brink?

    I'm going to go ahead and throw this out there for the masses: This morning while padding up in the parking area by the pit I was approached by a Forest Service employee. (I'm going to leave her nameless for now, but I have her name) First, she was really nice. So don't get the wrong idea. This isn't a rant, just news. She said that they had new trails lined up for the area and before they put them in they need to get rid of all the illegal jumps, so spread the word that we're going to get rid of everything out there. She mentioned another FS person who was going to put together a crew to help tear it down. I got the impression that she didn't know the scope of the building out there, and she framed everything in terms of "if you want these other trails built, we're going to have to get rid of those illegal ones." The quote of all quotes was when she said, "I know it's fun, but it's not part of the system."

    I'm not sure which little animated face to put here...

  2. #2
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    This one works for me...
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  3. #3
    pedaller
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    How about building these "other trails" first before eliminating existing trails/jumps? Somehow I see $$$ for building trails drying up fast as this economy continues to flounder... The cuts will have to come from somewhere and unfortunately trails are not exactly considered necessities...

    It would be a big shame to see the NRA pit destroyed LONG BEFORE any additional trails are created/built.

    Anyone know anything about a timetable for additional trails? That area could support a nice expansion of the current trail system.
    "Nobody ever told me not to try" - Curious George Soundtrack by Jack Johnson

  4. #4
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    They are on the way

    Quote Originally Posted by Noelg
    How about building these "other trails" first before eliminating existing trails/jumps? Somehow I see $$$ for building trails drying up fast as this economy continues to flounder... The cuts will have to come from somewhere and unfortunately trails are not exactly considered necessities...

    It would be a big shame to see the NRA pit destroyed LONG BEFORE any additional trails are created/built.

    Anyone know anything about a timetable for additional trails? That area could support a nice expansion of the current trail system.
    The uh whaddya call it survey has been done for the lower areas, trails laid out. There was a push to get the NRA area legitimized, but the effort has not been followed up (to my knowledge) and I would guess that the wood is not helping.

    CW is the main point of effort out there. I'd like ot be able to help through AGRO and MBAA but I don't have the time without dedicated individuals playing by the rules. It will be a sad day when the dozers come through.

    Anyone want to help with a proposal for a local skills area in the city? I need to put together a legit proposal but am moving out of state.

    Volunteers and good point people will be need to keep it rolling. I know there are enough interested folks but the land managers need a narrow point of contact, not a big unorganized group. With AGRO and MBAA putting their weight behind these efforts there may be a chance for a legit skills area.

  5. #5
    parenting for gnarness
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    i rode the other trail today. BFD! its not bad, but more XC stuff like Wild Horse and Big Rock. It gets you about .75 miles up the road, which has an enormous shoulder\bike lane and is an already well-used route.

    Can a petition or something get going? tearing down something unique that lots of people enjoy for a redundant connector what defines a system trail other than the whim of the land manager? seems like taxpayers opinions should count for something.

  6. #6
    dirt visionary
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    We could start a petition I suppose as I know we could get 200+ sigs easy ......Funny thing is they say so they can make a connector that is already done???? I think its a way for the same group that worked on the connector to get our single track for xc use only .


    Also if we leave the area Shooters will take it back over no doubt.

  7. #7
    dirt visionary
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    Hey!!! I got 2 ideas One we keep the parking lot full giving them no room to get through ......AND we play jump huggers.......If the tree hugger can do it we should be able to do the same

  8. #8
    Shred...it's the new drug
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    Should we chain ourselves to the jumps/burms in hippie fashion? The wasted hours in tearing down the place could be put towards something positive like building sweet singletrack, not death and destruction of thousands of hours of dedication. Whats our next step? We need not stand in the wayside to let this happen, we need to fight for our right to shred!

  9. #9
    dirt visionary
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    I will make a call Monday to Debbie Becker and express the cummunities concern .......I will also let her know we have at least 100 riders that will go to bat for the area.....Plus I will also let them know what kind of traffic that will be missed if things do get torn down .....NRA has brought 100 times more traffic out using the land for recreation. Which is far better than the land being used by shooters every weekend all day.

  10. #10
    dirt visionary
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    we could also flood the FS office off Higley with our plea calls

  11. #11
    Shred...it's the new drug
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    I got my chains and tie died shirt ready...

    Seriously, clock, can you express the fact that we the pit riders have taken care of the area, cleaned up most of the trash, kept out shooters, partiers, all around riff raff and created a positive area for advancing skills and healthy recreation. Also it has drawn riders from other trails (somo, hawes, etc.) on the weekends to clear those up for hikers and other recreationalists.

  12. #12
    dirt visionary
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    Yup and I will also express the fact that if the pit is torn down that 5-10 other places will see the same thing happen . I can almost guarentee that people will start building in any area they can to get their fix.... mcdowells, estrella mountains and cave creek not to mention our new location nearby .

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by clockwork
    I will make a call Monday to Debbie Becker and express the cummunities concern .......I will also let her know we have at least 100 riders that will go to bat for the area.....Plus I will also let them know what kind of traffic that will be missed if things do get torn down .....NRA has brought 100 times more traffic out using the land for recreation. Which is far better than the land being used by shooters every weekend all day.
    FYI that's who I talked to.

  14. #14
    dirt visionary
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    Thats why I threw her name out . I knew right away by your description it was her.. She is/was on our side but has to do what the person above her says. She's a cool lady.

  15. #15
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    Bummer... Nothing more to say.
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  16. #16
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    What's the history of the NRA pit? It sounds like it was a shooting area that that somehow turned into a gravity playground..and if the jumps get torn down the shooting will start back up? Neither use officially approved from the sounds of it. Where did the shooters go?

    Not trying to stir sh1t, the NRA thread is amazing , but since I like to ride and like to shoot this is interesting. Hope it works out for all involved.
    bikes, guns, dogs....perfect

  17. #17
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    The pit is the old shooting range which has now moved South approx 3 miles. There is a legal range for anyone who feels the need to get in some target practice, but it's not free. So, you know the rest of that story...
    Desert Sunset Calls/Upward, Pain, Perseverance/Welcome Solitude

  18. #18
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    The future?

    I never thought I'd be sneaking around doing "illegal" activities at the ripe old age of 41 (!?) but it looks like that's exactly how it's going to be.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by clockwork
    NRA has brought 100 times more traffic out using the land for recreation. Which is far better than the land being used by shooters every weekend all day.
    For those of you that live in the area, are locals aware of their options? Would locals rather have recreational shooters out there near their hiking area or mountain bikers? Awareness with locals calling in could do more good for your cause. Perhaps some leaflets on cars with a handy dandy phone number or email.

    I'm not a gravity fan, but I dislike recreational shooters and the crap they leave behind. A gun in the hand of a stupid person is an accident waiting to happen.

    Is another trail heading south of the pit for less than a mile worth the cost of leveling the pit or even a necessity? The road is 100 feet away!!!

  20. #20
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    Well I'll do whatever I can to help. . . which isnt a lot, but in terms of professional services if we need to put together any sort of written entity or presence, or anything to represent US as a whole on paper I am your whore (but a free one). Sounds like a challenge in which the AZ riders need to step up and represent themselves in the most respectable manner possible.

    I know its easier said than done but what if we offer to help build?

    Seems like the FS or party at hand needs to be educated about the situation, if we do what we can to enlighten them on the treasure that is NRA perhaps there will be more leniency towards their future plans for the area?

    . . . IMO (which is next to worthless)

  21. #21
    dirt visionary
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    There was no one riding out there before we started digging . It had been dead for what 8 months or so with no traffic and there was only a handful of jumps and a 20 second line . Why becuase the FS tore down what was there......I would rather have our hard work torn down knowing TONS of people have had a blast, progressed , learned to jump and even gotten into DH/FR simply because of the pit . And I deffnately would not give up the FRIENDSHIPS and the people I have met out at the pit due to it becoming popular.

    Instead of all the hard work and only a small handful of people knowing about it like it was when the oldschoolers kept it to themselves . .....The pit has had its jumps/ladders ect torn down 4 times now it just part of a cycle.

    Anyways i have put in more time than anyone into the pit and I am not worried about the whole deal ...If they tear it down then thats what happens. Its not like freeriding in AZ is going to end Yeah it sucks but I am sure some things would get rebuilt just like any other time they have come out to plow things. The key this time is the quanity with almost 100 features....They got their work cut out for them especially since we love to use lots of rock and big rocks


    I am greatful that it has lasted over a year now considering they knew about our first work before anyone on MTBR or FRW did as we hadn't let you folks in on our secret at the time.

  22. #22
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    I'm with Clock. I found the pit by scouring Google earth for a gravel pit somewhere on Usury pass, than driving up and down that road and checking every pull-off because no one would give me directions. I was new to the area and I understood why no one trusted me.

    You can't keep a good thing down, and keeping it illegal and secret is the wrong approach, IMO. There is no reason why the valley shouldn't have a legit freeride skills area.

  23. #23
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    i don't think the fs realizes the repercussions that will trickle down if one of the best freeride spots in az gets destroyed. So many illegal trails will sprout up out of peoples sheer desperation to get their freeride fix. Just tell me what I can do to help your cause clock! It sounds like we fr\dh riders need to take the initiative to save the pit.
    Madspeed always prevails!

  24. #24
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    Who is in charge of the trail expansion planning for the area and when is their next meeting? We all need to be their and have a designated proffessional spokesperson to express our concerns and our input for the area. It is all of us who ride and should have a say in what their plans are for the future and to be a part of it. We can help to build the new trails and fight to keep all or most of what has been already built there. The cities build skate parks and bike parks in the city, why can't we have some fun out in the desert?

  25. #25
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    The good thing is we have more builders. If they destroy it, it will just make me want to build more. It's too good to die.

  26. #26
    AKA shitbird
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    I am willing and eager to help out in any way I can. If there was ever a time legitimize what's out there at NRA, it is now. We should not have to feel like criminals to enjoy our sport. The Valley has legitimate recreation areas for everything including BMX,motocross, skating, rockclimbing, paintballing, hell even RC car racing. What legitimate areas do we have for freeriding? Hell, I can't even think of one real dirt jump that is 100% legal in all of AZ, seriously!

    What I'm trying to say is that we should really consider having serious discussions with the Forest Service regarding the future of LEGAL freeriding at this location. I have thought about this for some time but never wanted to bring unwanted attention to the area by being proactive. We are now at the point where if we don't do something these trails/jumps are gone. Maybe the FS service tells us "no, hell no" but at least we tried.

    Sure we can find other places to build but those will end up plowed over too, just like the Playground, let's focus on some permanancy here.

    I have some ideas in mind to get this rolling but I don't want to step on the toes of those who put so much time into building these trails and already have relationships with the Forest Service. With that being said I am willing to take on any role, big or small in making something happen and will make myself available but I don't want to put forth any effort until I have the support of the people who who made NRA what it is today. If the builders/riders decide that we are better off remaining quiet and someday rebuilding I respect that decision too. I'm here to help if you want it.
    JRA

  27. #27
    Gold it's the new Pink!
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    Quote Originally Posted by locoriggs
    Who is in charge of the trail expansion planning for the area and when is their next meeting? We all need to be their and have a designated proffessional spokesperson to express our concerns and our input for the area. It is all of us who ride and should have a say in what their plans are for the future and to be a part of it. We can help to build the new trails and fight to keep all or most of what has been already built there. The cities build skate parks and bike parks in the city, why can't we have some fun out in the desert?
    I totally agree with loco. Here are some of the steps we need to do.

    First gather all the names and contact information of those riders willing to be involved in this project. Then gather the information we have into one spot. As a group make a decision if and how much we want of that information publicly posted. **There is a lot of information that should not and can not be posted in a public forum if we want to be successful in this project.**

    First tasks:

    -What information do we have and what information do we need to gather?

    -Indentify groups and key figures that we need and which of those are willing to help us.
    -Gather contact information of these people and organizations

    -Gather business support: I of course will have Kore Bikeís support as well as the support of my familyís businesses.
    -I am sure Nanner can get Global Bikes to sign on.

    I also propose a name for us as a group Arizona Free-ride Association or AFA. Plus a logo like the American Freestyle Association of the 80ís would be killer. ;-)

    I am willing to be a part of this to help make sure we are successful.

    Crimson

  28. #28
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    Man this stinks like the diaper I just changed. The pit is part of the reason I chose to live way out Mesa way.

    Recently I have talked to City of Mesa officials on creating a bike skills park and right now with no money for Parks & Rec it wont happen. She told me if I can prove I will be able to secure insurance and the ability to maintain the park we could then work on a lease deal. I have contacted a few other parks around the country to get thier cost info.

    Crimson there is a group already formed on a google group forum AGRO. It doesn't get as much traffic, so it is still a little loose. But we do need to be more pro active as a whole or wait for the FS to tear down what they will and use it as an opportunity to build it better (no offense to those that have shoveled but you know what I mean).

    I'm in for whatever I can do.
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  29. #29
    Gold it's the new Pink!
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    Matty,

    Thanks for bringing up Argo. I think I am a member if it was the group that started up last year or so. I was going to ask about if it was still around.

    Eabos,

    You have outlined a lot of good points in your post. I had written my post from earlier across my day at work and then saw yours after I posted mine up. I totally agree we need to be careful not to damage any relationships that riders have with the FS and or parks departments. We do however need to be proactive in this project. I fully respect the riders who have put time, money and effort into making NRA what it is but if they are not willing or able for what ever reason to protect NRA, then allow those of us who are willing and able to do just that. We are after all are not only protecting a very unique riding area but also their hard work.

    Later
    Crimson
    Last edited by Crimson; 12-07-2008 at 06:45 PM.

  30. #30
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    Yeah Right...

    Quote Originally Posted by tgiles
    i don't think the fs realizes the repercussions that will trickle down if one of the best freeride spots in az gets destroyed. So many illegal trails will sprout up out of peoples sheer desperation to get their freeride fix. Just tell me what I can do to help your cause clock! It sounds like we fr\dh riders need to take the initiative to save the pit.
    As a Forest Service Employee I should be careful what I say on these boards, but this is the same attitude that will be causing the Tonto to shut down thousands of miles of OHV roads and trails. The repercussions are simple. The Government is a big machine and can be a real pain. I would encourage dialouge utilizing an existing entity such as MBAA or AGRO as land managers love to use Acronyms and an organized effort will get more accomplished....

    As with all things there is always politics. So here's the scoop:

    1. Any trails that are newly constructed should have all NEPA work completed prior to construction. Dialouge begins well before construction. This is the reason that no new trails are built as a whole. Environmental lawsuits are S-C-A-R-Y to the land manager in charge (also known as the "Ranger"). The "Ranger" at Mesa is "Art Wirtz", not Debbie Becker.

    2. We often look through our freeride bubble without looking at other user groups, public interest, and environmental concerns. These things have to be addressed BEFORE trails are built. I am all for new spots be it legal or illegal, but make sure you realize that ILLEGAL is just that and will never last for long. That's part of the deal.

    3. I think there is plenty of room for discussion with the FS but it takes a co-ordinated, professional approach with a non-aggressive, eco-sensitive mindset to make things fly with the honchos.

    I could go on for hours since I've worked for the Tonto for 19 years. I still remember the rush I got hitting the A line all the way from the top and will continue to ride out there as long as I can.


  31. #31
    dirt visionary
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    I am up and all for any help that everyone can dish out.........It would be nice to save most of NRA but I feel A- and B-line are main targets as of now . Up the hill is a different story but in any event we need many Mature strong indivduals with some resources to help make the move.

    The relationship we with the FS is not major in any sense so don't worry about stepping on our toes. Our relationship is based on they know about our activity and as long as we kept the trash and bad incidents down they wouldn't have to shut us down . But back when we had our pow wow it was never mentioned that A and B-lines were going to be affected by the new connector.

    pm me if you feel the need.

  32. #32
    dirt visionary
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    Hey Dave thanks for the info ...Sorry I forgot to mention Debbie is Arts ranger and is below Art ... She's easy going but Art isn't as easy to work with . I wish we could use all the other Successful FR in other FS areas across the us as examples along with the Tonto District in Globe seeing that they allowed us to do minor improvments on Sixer.

    Eabos.....I have some good paper work outline the way 2 other MTB organization made FR'ing a possiblity in their areas.

    Lookup the dirt corps ,black rock oregon and plainfeild bike park. I have their outlined guidlines and proposals that they used .

  33. #33
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    You guys may want to think about using the AGRO acronym in your dealings. It doesn't bother anyone here (it's how you roll ) but you're stepping into the political world with this and such things have to be considered. Something like the Politically Correct Arizona Bunny Huggers and Bike Jumping Tea Society...

  34. #34
    I'm Lazy, So I Shuttle
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    Just let us know how we can help. I am down to do what I can. I also know a guy who is pretty high up on the ladder in the FS.
    The secret to mountain biking is pretty simple. The slower you go the more likely it is you'll crash.- Julie Furtado

  35. #35
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    what about contacting some of the manufacturers to help with "grants" or something? im sure if we had a legit and legal place to break their bikes, they would be glad to sell us replacements. maybe email all the shops and get some support from them. cactus, DNA, adventure, landis, global. i mean this is their backyard too. goddam government. just legalize it!!

  36. #36
    dirt visionary
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    IMBA/KONA have teamed up and giving lots of grants for fr/skills parks. I have lots of good info on paper about that.

  37. #37
    dirt visionary
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    Here is a project the dirt corps is working on.

    http://www.dirtcorps.com/Projects/Sn...1/Default.aspx

    and Plainfeild bike park

    http://www.plainfieldbikepark.com/

  38. #38
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    THanks Clockwork. I've been looking up some info as well and there are alot of opportunities out there but a few challenges/obstacles as well. Check your pm's in a few.
    JRA

  39. #39
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    More .02

    Quote Originally Posted by clockwork
    I have some good paper work outline the way 2 other MTB organization made FR'ing a possiblity in their areas.

    Lookup the dirt corps ,black rock oregon and plainfeild bike park. I have their outlined guidlines and proposals that they used .
    Chris, I checked these out, and these are good projects, but I think one thing everybody is missing is that these are State or City land bases. The Federal Gov't. is just a real pain in the kiester to deal with. Too many middle management types that have

    1. No clue,
    2. No life
    3. No common sense.

    Althought I could probably be accused of all the above by a group of users I don't understand

    Typical Federal Government response goes something like this.... :
    Let everybody come out and ride ATV's/Dirtibkes/Rails/Rhinos/Jeeps (throw Mountain bikes in there) anywhere they please (cough, Cough, Sycamore), build new trails, new lines, new experiences with no Forest Service Oversight, No implementation of environmental rules & regulations, and most importantly No overall Managment Plan for the area, No public scoping.

    ....Fast Forward 10 years.....Land is trashed, environmental groups are aiming sights on OHV users and FS. Middle mgt types are scared, clueless, and don't understand the users, the riding experience, most have never been on some of these trails, they never developed a management plan, didn't have the money, knowledge or resources to deal with the problem when it started. Logical choice=C shut er down and write tickets. Control what you don't understand. Oh --- and also Charge the others who are legal so you can build a bigger non-working machine

    To be honest it's not even the Forest Services Fault. The high power environmentalist groups don't give a damn about the land, they just want to fight for the sake of the fight. I don't know about most riders out there, but I wouldn't want to sit on a stand being deposed by a high paid CBD attorney about why I didn't take action to stop random raping and pillaging of the land.

    My recommendation for trying to get a lasting plan in place with the Fed's would be to go through AGGRO or MBAA as a spearhead to come up with a detailed map and plan for the area. Look into getting some pro-bono Environemental research done to mitigate any issuees with SHPO (state historical preservation offices), ADEQ (drainage), Maricopa County Dust control. etc..etc..etc..
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  40. #40
    dirt visionary
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    How about this one Dave . Its on FS land

    http://www.imba.com/resources/freeri...k_success.html

    http://www.brmba.org/

    their Management plan has some REALLY GOOD info also.

    http://brmba.org/docs/BlackrockBuild...2004June21.pdf
    Last edited by clockwork; 12-08-2008 at 07:42 AM.

  41. #41
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    This would be a good model

    "Just outside Salem, Oregon, in the rural logging town of Falls City, lies the Black Rock trail system. This killer freeride area, located on a 1,000-acre tract of State Forest Land"

    This would be a good model to work from for IMBAA or AGGRO. STATE FOREST is different than FEDERAL FOREST LANDS. I would assume that alot of the same rules apply, but the bigger the machine the bigger the Hoops.

    Definitely I believe there is a possiblity for something good to happen, maybee a skills pit within the shooting pit? smaller area, good use of existing environmental dammage, easy access for emergency situations etc. A good plan that is well thought out and environmentally/legally sound is the way to at least get an open ear.

  42. #42
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    Fwiw...

    i contacted the City of Mesa's Mayor & Council hotline. I know its not Mesa's land, but figured it was worth a shot. They promptly redirected me to the Forest Service.

    When Rex Griswold was a Councilman in Mesa, he talked about plans for extending Twisted Sister over the ridgeline, which made me think Mesa had some influence. oh well...

  43. #43
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    They should work in some trails that are more recumbent friendly. We are a very under served group. I think this NRA area would make a great dedicated recumbent off road spot.
    "Pour water in the tea pot and it becomes the tea pot. Be water my friend." - Bruce Lee

  44. #44
    Just another half mile...
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    What about Table Mesa Area??

    The Table Mesa Recreation Area north of Phoenix just off of I-17 is another area that may be open to build freeride trails. The BLM has just started their NEPA Scoping process and held a couple of public meetings in November to get input from the public on how to use the area. In talking with BLM staff, they are not against building freeride trails in the Table Mesa area. So now is the time to get you input into the NEPA process if you would like to build some freeride trail out there. I went to the public meeting and will post the information and comments forms later when I find some tome to scan the info.

    It's basicaly the same distance from central Phoenix to Table Mesa road as it is to get to the NRA pit from central Phoenix. There is definitely some steep terrain out in the Table Mesa area that could be used to laid out for some fun stuff.



    Quote Originally Posted by clockwork
    How about this one Dave . Its on FS land

    http://www.imba.com/resources/freeri...k_success.html

    http://www.brmba.org/

    their Management plan has some REALLY GOOD info also.

    http://brmba.org/docs/BlackrockBuild...2004June21.pdf

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by ruppguts
    I'm going to go ahead and throw this out there for the masses: This morning while padding up in the parking area by the pit I was approached by a Forest Service employee. (I'm going to leave her nameless for now, but I have her name) First, she was really nice. So don't get the wrong idea. This isn't a rant, just news. She said that they had new trails lined up for the area and before they put them in they need to get rid of all the illegal jumps, so spread the word that we're going to get rid of everything out there. She mentioned another FS person who was going to put together a crew to help tear it down. I got the impression that she didn't know the scope of the building out there, and she framed everything in terms of "if you want these other trails built, we're going to have to get rid of those illegal ones." The quote of all quotes was when she said, "I know it's fun, but it's not part of the system."

    I'm not sure which little animated face to put here...
    I'm a certified tree-hugging environmentalist who will never freeride, BUT,

    This forest service plan to tear down this playground is a complete waste of time and effort. The area has already been defiled by the gigantic pit, and is braided with all kinds of trails and washes. It seems perfect for your kind of trail-building activity.

    Probably the best use of our trail dollars in the area would be a nice paved parking lot to improve the access and also for some kind of boundary to be put around the area so that the building doesn't grow without bounds. Maybe a big sign to enter and use at your own risk, too. (They could require a Tonto pass and make some bucks, too.)

    I'm sure that the forest supervisors lie awake at night wondering when some kid's parent is going to sue because of an accident that happens out there. But if the public demands such an area, then they're off the hook.
    "Thank you, God, for letting me have another day"
    The Milagro Beanfield War

  46. #46
    Pivotal figure
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    I absolutely wish we could have something like hikerdave is suggesting, I'd be right in line for an annual pass. Would something like that ever happen? Probably not, due to it being logical and fairly straightforward. Sorry about that, I'm just naturally pessimistic.
    Desert Sunset Calls/Upward, Pain, Perseverance/Welcome Solitude

  47. #47
    dirt visionary
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    Shame ........as 95% of everyone I have seen at the pit is indeed over 18 hell most are over 20 by a good shot.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by clockwork
    Shame ........as 95% of everyone I have seen at the pit is indeed over 18 hell most are over 20 by a good shot.
    Popular misconception that all FR/DH/DJ'ers are "punk kids".

    Most only in spirit, not age

    This is a real bummer to hear, I hope something works out, if only to preserve all the hard work.
    Quote Originally Posted by azdog View Post
    I think he was born around the time of the Chernobyl fallout which would explain a lot.

  49. #49
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    I am willing to throw in with MBAA and AGRO...

    I just sent Debbie an email to see if there is any possibility of getting the area adopted as the entire Hawes system was years ago. Hawes was also started as a wildcat trail system by an avid rider named Kieth. As BWdave says, it is important to come to the table as a single group, not a scatter shot of "dudes" threatening to build elsewhere or whatever.

    The main thing we need to see is the elimination of wood stunts (I recall that was a concern with the FS), beer cans, trash, butts and signs of stupid lines. I will do everything I can to give the wieght of these large groups have as constituents for our public servants. I think that liability is an issue that can be addressed ( I have not read the attached proposals yet). I know the main concern at the AGRO trash day planning meeting was that the FS did not want to be called up there for a complaint. I think that has been well handled other than the items above.

    I had hoped to get help on a website for AGRO, but maybe keeping it a closed group for planning and discussion is a better way to go. Public forums are open and sometimes the slag that goes around is counterproductive.

    I have also been asked to produce a proposal for the Holbert Pit skills area by the park and need help organizing that. I think there are many here and with AGRO/MBAA that would like to see skills areas accepted as legitimate attractions rather than see wildcat lines and backlot session areas.

    With NRA, Holbert, and Table Mesa areas proposed, there should be a huge user base that would show land managers there is responsible need for such amenities.

    What else we will need is local represntration by an individual that can meet with land managers as I am moving to NorCal after xmas. I will still stay involved by email and phone but we need more than that and forums to move forward seriously. Who can be there Eabos?

    I am copying the AGRO invite line below (you have to join Google Groups and confirm to get email there) and I encourage everyone to join MBAA for the $20 that will help fill the membership with more than just XC racers. MBAA is about access and we need members.

    http://groups.google.com/group/arizo...s_invite?hl=en

    www.mbaa.net

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by KavuRider
    Popular misconception that all FR/DH/DJ'ers are "punk kids".

    Yeah when the truth is it's all Punk Adults. Look at you guys and your tats and nose rings. Sheesh.

    Maybe if we explained how much a DH FR rig costs they might rethink their misconceptions of punk kids.

    Like Hiker Dave I too was thinking that a sign to play at your own risk "Man made stunts in the area". We could take it upon ourselves to add difficulty markers, Blue, Green, and Black Diamond to the various spots. Also have either the anual pass or day pass to park there. It would suck to pay but would definately be worth it.

    I didn't see it before but is there any time frame for the cleaning of the trails?
    Got Daytons on the Motha Ship - Cube

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