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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by SugarHigh View Post
    Sanitization out there. I think it is a combo. After a good rain, some embedded rocks loosen up, then a horse or some bumps them. A month later it is dislodged. Then someone pitches it. I try to put them back.

    There is a cleaning crew too. Switchbacks have been sanitized twice in the last few months. There is a little here and there too. The worst for me though is this big rock in the middle of trail when climbing mine just a bit after the lower climbs. It weighs over 100 pounds and was going no where. Someone rolled it down the hill. I rolled it back. Well it is now gone again. I will be putting in back too. The rock was not a big deal and did not really slow you down.

    Corner cutting is so dum. I will try to line rock and cactus where I see it. Need to stop pedaling a bit more. Strava is not to blame for this stuff. People should stop blaming a good training tool for everything under the sun.

    I am torn by the new lines. I actually like the lines at end of mine and cardiac. That soft sand wash is ridiculous right now. I have done it, but few will. I would like to see the Mess of lines disappear there. Not sure if it is right, but the thought crossed my mind to put some rocks in the way to divert traffic on to the new line. Then try to smooth out the others. Not sure that would be right though?

    That cardiac line should either be made better, or destroyed. If we put rocks and cactus all over it, my guess is it will be cleaned. USFS approval for anything is a crazy amount of work. If it is not reinforced on the side hill, and the straight line p it is not curved to incorporate water diversion, it will be a terrible mess real fast.

    The whole new line dilemma is a tough one for sure. Not even sure if this post or thread should even be here.

    Ideally, the only trail work should be to manage erosion and trails getting to wide.
    I think the problem is there is no governing body out there that Im aware of. Maybe that is a good thing but the amount of building, sanitizing and shortcutting trails is running out of control in my opinion (whether need or not) and if the powers that be do show up someday who knows how they will respond to it. Im all for more single track but there is a responsible way of doing things. So are people implying on here that because one trail was built illegally its justifiable to built more where ever you want? I get the re-route around a wash thing but there is a proper way to do it otherwise we get what we have on Granite trail which is probably 5 different routes around the wash resulting in a tracked out area 20 yards wide. Cutting corners on lower ridge trail? Come on.

    Whether this post bringing attention to all the new construction/destruction at Hawes is a good thing or a bad thing remains unseen. All Im saying is there is a right way and wrong way to do things and what’s going on out there is not right IMHO. I have asked many times how to help out at Hawes. If they had work days like they do on the BCT Id be out there in a heartbeat. Until that day happens I will continue to shut down corner cutting and putting back intentionally removed obstacles.
    “Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did." Mark Twain

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZTtripper View Post
    Mountain Biking is being overrun by cry baby pussies.
    This could probably be better stated as "The world" is being overrun by cry babies. Mtb included.

    Sad that people are deteriorating the desert with lines... DHer or not. I personally dont know the appeal of pushing your DHer up the slopes out there. I love my DH ride but haven't seen anything rough/steep enough out at Hawes that I couldn't make a better/faster line on my XC with....but hey maybe that's because I'm not plowing over the top of the un-groomed desert
    "This fish who keeps on swimming, is the first to chill upstream" - 311

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Douger-1 View Post
    The only advantage to removing these rocks, rocks that have been there for as long as I have been riding there, is to make the trail flow easier which got me thinking who would do this? The only logical answer I could come up with (I have no proof) is yet another negative side effect of Strava. Do you think people are smoothing out the trails to gain a few seconds here and there? I sure as hell hope not. Leave the trails alone !!!!
    I too seen many routes in my area cleaned and raked and I do believe some of this is due to people trying to get a faster strava time. if it is true they are scum, they better be extra careful because I do trail restoration whenever I can. if they go flying along somewhere and an obstical is placed back where it belings it's thier own fault for not learning to ride better. I also block re-routes where they don't belong. I take TD's thought process in these cases, he and other's change a trail to make it easier or so called flowy for them, I have just as much right to put it back the way it was for other's and myself.
    Last edited by TacoBeer; 12-10-2012 at 10:55 AM.
    "Not drinking is the Single Speed World Championships version of doping" -Jacquie Phelan

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by TacoBeer View Post
    I too seen many routes in my area cleaned and raked and I do believe some of this is due to people trying to get a faster strava time. if it is true they are scum, they better be extra careful because I do trail restoration whenever I can. if they go flying along somewhere and an obstical is placed back where it belings it's thier own fault for not learning to ride better. I also block re-routes where they don't belong. I take TD's thought process in these cases, he and other's change a trail to make it easier or so called flowy for them, I have just as much right to but it back the way it was for other's and myself.
    Over time, moving rocks for a better Strava time should do nothing. Eveyone will be faster, not just the guy chasing a ranking. Also, the Hawes locations that have had most of the sanitation do not have Strava segments.

    Folks do this because they think they are making it better. I bet they think they are doing a public service.
    Last edited by SugarHigh; 12-10-2012 at 11:14 AM.

  5. #30
    Kathleen in AZ
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    I made a few skin donations to the Hawes trails this weekend due to kitty litter washouts. Trails look 'bout right for this time of year.... dry & loose but still fun! Winter rains will help bring the cycle back around.

  6. #31
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    I blame stupid, low, BB heights.
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

  7. #32
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    Pardon my ignorance but when you guys say cutting a corner, what do you mean exactly? I picture in my head that cutting a corner is like cutting across a switchback so I'm not sure what you are referencing to. Can you give me an example at Hawes were someone is cutting a corner?

    As for trail modifications, one that always bothered me that I remember constantly is on Secret. There was a small little rock bridge that was no more than one or two feet long and about 3-4 inches wide. You had to go over the "rock bridge" because either side had a nice deep dip you didn't want to hit going downhill. About a year ago I noticed someone smoothed off the edges of the dip so it's ridable now and you could completely bypass the rock bridge. Why someone would do this I have no idea but I've been wanting to restore that feature for a long time now.

    I'm definitely going to take some time one of these weekends to post up trail modification warning signs wherever I can. Any thoughts?

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by ECEGatorTuro View Post
    Pardon my ignorance but when you guys say cutting a corner, what do you mean exactly? I picture in my head that cutting a corner is like cutting across a switchback so I'm not sure what you are referencing to. Can you give me an example at Hawes were someone is cutting a corner?

    As for trail modifications, one that always bothered me that I remember constantly is on Secret. There was a small little rock bridge that was no more than one or two feet long and about 3-4 inches wide. You had to go over the "rock bridge" because either side had a nice deep dip you didn't want to hit going downhill. About a year ago I noticed someone smoothed off the edges of the dip so it's ridable now and you could completely bypass the rock bridge. Why someone would do this I have no idea but I've been wanting to restore that feature for a long time now.

    I'm definitely going to take some time one of these weekends to post up trail modification warning signs wherever I can. Any thoughts?
    Here is one that I closed off this weekend. Its on lower ridge. The bypassed switch back has that little step in the middle of it.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Nightranger at Hawes now?-hawescutoff.jpg  

    Last edited by Douger-1; 12-10-2012 at 05:13 PM.
    “Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did." Mark Twain

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by ECEGatorTuro View Post
    There was a small little rock bridge that was no more than one or two feet long and about 3-4 inches wide. You had to go over the "rock bridge" because either side had a nice deep dip you didn't want to hit going downhill.
    were you the one who put the jagged tree stump next to the rock bridge in early september?
    i saw this huge chunk of wood in that dip one day blocking the bypass,, i didnt know if it was intentional good, intentional sabotage, or just from the previous monsoon, so i left it. it was gone 2 days later though

  10. #35
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    I lived out there for 4 years and rode damn near 5-6 days a week. This time of year I would notice horse traffic increase to include horse tours...and in many cases, observed them cutting switches or turns because of faces of rock that the riders felt uncomfortable riding in the switchback. I've seen it on lower Mine, on western twisted sister and on ridge...the one pictured above is one such area.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Douger-1 View Post
    Here is one that I closed off this weekend. Its on lower ridge. The bypassed switch back has that little step in the middle of it.
    Wow that's just stupid!

    Quote Originally Posted by longhairmike View Post
    were you the one who put the jagged tree stump next to the rock bridge in early september?
    i saw this huge chunk of wood in that dip one day blocking the bypass,, i didnt know if it was intentional good, intentional sabotage, or just from the previous monsoon, so i left it. it was gone 2 days later though
    Nope! I've never modified any trails but that's not to say I've never thought about it. Frankly I don't touch a thing because I don't know what some would construe as improving or damaging trails so I just leave it up to the knowledgeable trail builders and stay out of it. The only time I've done anything on a trail is if it's been blocked completely by a tree or cactus or the like.

    Maybe we should all organize a trail maintenance day at Hawes (with some knowledgeable trail builders).

  12. #37
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    The work day put together by chollaball over 4 years ago on mudflaps did a lot of good and the design held together for about 3 years....not bad considering it even weathered the snowpacalypse a few seasons back...

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maadjurguer View Post
    I lived out there for 4 years and rode damn near 5-6 days a week. This time of year I would notice horse traffic increase to include horse tours...and in many cases, observed them cutting switches or turns because of faces of rock that the riders felt uncomfortable riding in the switchback. I've seen it on lower Mine, on western twisted sister and on ridge...the one pictured above is one such area.
    The one above was clearly mountain bike tracks. No horse tracks to be seen. Not to say it wasnt though.
    “Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did." Mark Twain

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Douger-1 View Post
    The one above was clearly mountain bike tracks. No horse tracks to be seen. Not to say it wasnt though.
    bummer....we should know better......

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by ECEGatorTuro View Post
    As for trail modifications, one that always bothered me that I remember constantly is on Secret. There was a small little rock bridge that was no more than one or two feet long and about 3-4 inches wide. You had to go over the "rock bridge" because either side had a nice deep dip you didn't want to hit going downhill. About a year ago I noticed someone smoothed off the edges of the dip so it's ridable now and you could completely bypass the rock bridge. ?
    I agree, that spot now pisses me off every time I ride it. It shouldn't but it does. The established route is now clearly not on the rock bridge itself but to the left of it. When first built there was no choice but to take the little bridge, and it was fun, but I suspect the way it's built, with that steep run-off above and to its left may be the real problem. Any water and sediment that now comes down that drainage I'd bet gets built up on the left side of the rocks....and over time it just created a natural walk-around that people started using...and now it's basically level with the rock bridge. They pretty much built a dam.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZTtripper View Post
    Mountain Biking is being overrun by cry baby pussies.

    They live in the desert but they want smooth Sun Valley Idaho style riding.

    In the end the desert will always come back rocky as usual.
    AKA roadies invading mt biking...

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZTtripper View Post
    Mountain Biking is being overrun by cry baby pussies.

    They live in the desert but they want smooth Sun Valley Idaho style riding.

    In the end the desert will always come back rocky as usual.
    Agreed!!!!

    Stop the sanitation and go back to your road bike you weaklings!!!!!
    I'd rather be hated for what I am, than loved for what I'm not......Dolemite.

  18. #43
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    On a side note, how do you guys feel about trimming. I have trimmed a few things out there once in the last year or so. I kept hitting certain inside branches. The plants are growing and it makes sense to keep them under control, but do it sparingly.

    Also, why are we throwing roadies under the bus now?
    Last edited by SugarHigh; 12-11-2012 at 08:46 AM.

  19. #44
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    I just assume too much. It's just my own opinion that people who sanitize should be on road bikes. It keeps the mountain biker in me happy.
    I'd rather be hated for what I am, than loved for what I'm not......Dolemite.

  20. #45
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    I see no issue with trimming. Actually think its necessary. If a shrub goes untrimmed it will eventually encroach on the trail pushing it further and further out. I have trimmed the fence line trail a few times myself. Cant imagine any trail user likes ducking trees.
    “Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did." Mark Twain

  21. #46
    parenting for gnarness
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    Quote Originally Posted by Douger-1 View Post
    I see no issue with trimming. Actually think its necessary. If a shrub goes untrimmed it will eventually encroach on the trail pushing it further and further out. I have trimmed the fence line trail a few times myself. Cant imagine any trail user likes ducking trees.
    I don't live on that side of town anymore, so dont get so passionate about Hawes anymore. Sanitation sucks, but I've just come to accept it. There is always something harder to ride. That said, if you see someone, by all means tell them what they are doing wrong -- not yell or attack, but definitely be assertive and confront them in a civil manner. And always make fun of effin dirt roadies.

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by ECEGatorTuro View Post
    I'm definitely going to take some time one of these weekends to post up trail modification warning signs wherever I can. Any thoughts?
    I like the sign idea. Not too may of them though. Maybe just put them on the sign posts that are already out there. Anyone out there will check them out. Laminte them so they will last longer.

    I like the color and humor of this one below. Even has the cool looking logos. It needs to be changed to reflect that this area is not very challenging. No need to make the trails easier by removing rocks or other obsticales or by cutting in new whimp lines. Also mention stay on the existing trails/no corner cutting, ... If they want easier smoother trails, go to the pavement, canals, or T100 ... Basically have it cleverly say, if you do stuff like this you are not worthy of respect in the mtb community.

    Anyone else have any thoughts on this?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Nightranger at Hawes now?-426693_10151108647776870_903715110_n.jpg  

    Last edited by SugarHigh; 12-11-2012 at 10:38 AM.

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by SugarHigh View Post
    I like the sign idea. Not too may of them though. Maybe just put them on the sign posts that are already out there. Anyone out there will check them out. Laminte them so they will last longer.

    I like the color and humor of this one below. Even has the cool looking logos. It needs to be changed to reflect that this area is not very challenging. No need to make the trails easier by removing rocks or other obsticales or by cutting in new whimp lines. Also mention stay on the existing trails/no corner cutting, ... If they want easier smoother trails, go to the pavement, canals, or T100 ... Basically have it cleverly say, if you do stuff like this you are not worthy of respect in the mtb community.

    Anyone else have any thoughts on this?
    he's channelling maadjurguer...

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by SugarHigh View Post
    I like the sign idea. Not too may of them though. Maybe just put them on the sign posts that are already out there. Anyone out there will check them out. Laminte them so they will last longer.

    I like the color and humor of this one below. Even has the cool looking logos. It needs to be changed to reflect that this area is not very challenging. No need to make the trails easier by removing rocks or other obsticales or by cutting in new whimp lines. Also mention stay on the existing trails/no corner cutting, ... If they want easier smoother trails, go to the pavement, canals, or T100 ... Basically have it cleverly say, if you do stuff like this you are not worthy of respect in the mtb community.

    Anyone else have any thoughts on this?
    Sugar:

    Do you know how to get the pdf file of this sign? In the Sedona RTCA meetings coming up we are definitely going to be discussing signs and I think that sign work well on Highline, the Hogs and Hangover. It would also be nice to give a copy to the Sedona bike shops so they can post a copy.

    TD

  25. #50
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    Cholla, Thanks, um I think? I think Maad brings a cool perspective to this site and the AZ MTB community. Anyone who creates a geo riddle to find Tequilla gets

    TD, No clue how to get a pdf. I got it from a local moto site, and they got it from a site called ktmtalk.com. It looks to be from the CO area I am guessing. It would be easy to create, except for the cool gear skull and cross implements logo.

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