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  1. #1
    Just another half mile...
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    New Trails out at Pima and Dynamite

    Since the City of Scottsdale last big land purchase of most of the remaining P&D area north of Dynamite, they have been busy building. A new trailhead is underconstruction at the north end of Alma School and the TH at 136th and Lone Mountain will be under construction soon (parking lot staked out). If I remember right, there are three trail crews out there building trail. So far they have looped around Cholla and Granite Mountains and are builing a hiking only trail up to the top of Slant Mountain. Rode some to the new stuff yesterday, a lot more enjoyable than a lot of the rutted out fall line moto trails. In the areas where new trails are being built, they are obliterating the adjacent moto trails. The trails that have been completed are open to ride, but are not signed (all the old state land signs are being taken down), so us at your own risk. I have updated my map showing the new trails we rode yesteday. Saw lots of other new trails breaking off. If you come across a new trail that is closed due to construction, please stay out until it's done and the signs are gone. Here a few pics showing new stuff. They did a pretty good job routing the trails through some nice stands of Saguaros!

    MAP showing new trails in GREEN

    New P&D 3-3-13 at EveryTrail
    EveryTrail - Find the best Hiking in Arizona
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails New Trails out at Pima and Dynamite-p1060740_exposure.jpg  

    New Trails out at Pima and Dynamite-p1060742_exposure.jpg  

    New Trails out at Pima and Dynamite-p1060750_exposure.jpg  

    New Trails out at Pima and Dynamite-p1060753_exposure.jpg  

    New Trails out at Pima and Dynamite-p1060757_exposure.jpg  

    New Trails out at Pima and Dynamite-p1060768_exposure.jpg  

    New Trails out at Pima and Dynamite-p1060769_exposure.jpg  


  2. #2
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    Are there any bike clubs involved with the build? How would you describe the layout? Are the motos really pissed?
    There is a big difference between ripping and skidding.

  3. #3
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    Motos aren't pissed because they are still riding on them and tearing them up, nothing is stopping them at the moment from doing so. I spoke with one of the groups of trail builders and they were pissed about the motos tearing them up.

    The flow is super fun, like a big roller coaster but nothing technical. The loop around granite is a good little weekday tuneup ride that has has some nice little climbs and descents in there to keep you going.

  4. #4
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    I get why they are Pembertonizing the trails - they want to appeal to a broad user base of less skilled riders. But, I'm still kinda sad. While the new trails flow fine, they aren't nearly as much fun as the old, raw moto-made trails. The challenge is pretty much gone. I'm guessing that we'll start to see people on road bikes out there - like I saw on the Pemberton last week.

    Sad to hear that trail up slant is going to be hiker only. It is a nice little grunt on a bike. Unlike Tom's Thumb, it is rideable by mortals.

    That trail head looks like it is going to be pretty big. I wonder if this will get the kind of crowds the Gateway area gets?

  5. #5
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    awesome quail hunting in this area

  6. #6
    My other ride is your mom
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    Nature of the trails aside, it's encouraging to see so much more attention on mountain biking in a positive light and having the powers that be address the growing need.

  7. #7
    Just another half mile...
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    No clubs involved, but there were several open houses last year for people to provide input on the trail master plan.

    I would imagine some of the motos are pissed, but they still have all the moto trails in the Tonto to ride. In addition to building trails and trailhead parking, they are also installing pipe rail fencing along the new park boundary at the OHV access areas. Lots of new fencing wnet up along Dynamite the last couple of weeks. My guess they will get around to the north side eventually to block access from the Tonto National Forest. Eventually the motos will get the message and stop riding the new park area. There will always be renagades. At one time PMP and SoMo were OHV play grounds until they where bought by the city and turned into preserves. Same thing here.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maadjurguer View Post
    Nature of the trails aside, it's encouraging to see so much more attention on mountain biking in a positive light and having the powers that be address the growing need.
    Agree. I'm just sad to see my private playground get "found out" by the world. I used to be able to ride out there during the week and never see another person. That is going to change dramatically. But that's just how things go.

    Say what you want about Snottsdale, they have made a big commitment to keeping lots of open spaces and allowing (non motorized) recreation in those spaces. I am constantly amazed at the amount of money the city (actually the people who buy stuff in S'dale) is willing to put into acquiring open land and putting trails through it. Sure it is all in the name of getting tourists out here, but we all benefit. They could have gone many other ways that would really suck. So props to them.

  9. #9
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    I'm not totally sure about no bikes on Slant, but i think that what I overhead at one time. We'll see once they officially open the trails.

    I doubt that Alma School TH will get the traffic that Gateway gets, at least it will take some of the load off Gateway and spread people out. My guess we will see a lot more equestrian trail use especially over on the east side where there a lot of horse properties east of 136th and equestrian friendy trailheads.

    As far as Pembertonizing the trails, I think it's great that there are more of this level of trails available now. As little five years ago, there were not that many opportunities for beginner riders and those who do not wish to ride technical trails to ride. You may think the new trails are not challenging, but to a begenniner, they are a challenge. There are plenty of technical trails to ride in the valley to keep the chunk monkeys happy.

  10. #10
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    If it gets more people outside, I'm okay with it.

    And yeah, Scottsdale's commitment to recreational land is very impressive.

  11. #11
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    Thanks for the maps Epic! Did you not have a site you put them all up at or do you just use everytrail?
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  12. #12
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    I am glad they bought the land but the trails we pretty easy to begin with, they didn't need dumbing down.

    Alma school TH is nice but that means more people.
    I used just park on a shoulder off Dynamite and ride from there.

    There are awesome trails out there, you just have to know where to go otherwise you can be stuck on sandy jeep road.

  13. #13
    Just another half mile...
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    My Website got hacked last year and lost all that was on the site. Slowly repopulating my site as people request maps and as I find time to update them.

    Singletrack.us MAPS

  14. #14
    Give it a crank
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    As soon as the new trailheads are open, hikers will immediately flood the area just like they did when the new north TT trailhead opened last year. It's actually a good thing to see big crowds seek the outdoors like that.

    Plus, two more trailheads means all the users will just spread out more among them and reduce trail traffic in any one area. Those trails look too easy though, no climbs just sucks like Pembo.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn-Rider View Post
    As soon as the new trailheads are open, hikers will immediately flooded the area just like they did when the new north TT trailhead opened last year. It's actually a good thing to see big crowds seek the outdoors like that.
    Good news is, once you get more than a mile from where you can park a car, the pedestrian traffic will be greatly minimized. Seems like that's how it always is in Sedona or at the Canyon.

    We wanna see the cool stuff, but not if we have to walk more than a half hour. Or not if there's no reception for my iPhone. Whatever, more for me.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy_E View Post
    If it gets more people outside, I'm okay with it.

    And yeah, Scottsdale's commitment to recreational land is very impressive.
    YEP, it's why I often toss the bike in the truck, and head over to my Dad's house ... Scottsdale has some of the best recreational planning in the State.

  17. #17
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    Just go at the crack of dawn to avoid all the traffic. By the time i was done on saturday there must have been about 10 riders out around granite mtn area.

  18. #18
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    Hikers want a destination to get to, then turn around and go back (not talking backpackers, etc, just your local day hiker with an hour of time to spend). That destination is normally up a mountain or down a canyon. There is so much rolling / flat terrain out of the Alma School TH, that I think hiking activity will peak early, then die off at this TH. I think riders of horse & bike and trail runners will be the longterm user of this area.

    To help make my point, when you ride @ Tom's Thumb, that parking lot can be pretty darn full, but as you ride toward Marcus Landslide or Rock Knob, there are not many people. Why? The majority are all hiking toward the destination of Tom's.

    Look at Camelback vs. Papago Park. No cars lined up to pull into Papago to just go walk out to Eliot Ramada & back. Not much of a hike. Go a few miles north of Papago and it is a different deal.

    I am excited and a bit bummed at the same time. This time last year I would ride in to Pemberton from 128th st & Pinnacle Peak with just a hand full of cars out there. Different story now, like dtownmtb said.

  19. #19
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    The thing about the "dumbed down" trails in the P&D area is that it appears that these are newly-cut trails not just merely sanitized. Although it is machine-built and might initially look like a relatively tame trail (I have yet to actually ride it to really tell), many trails over time seem to become more "seasoned" after a couple of good years of monsoon storms. For example, while Deem Hills was machine-built, I don't think anyone would call its current condition sanitized. Deem Hills seems to have become rockier and more more fun (and some spots more challenging) over time. I suspect the P&D trails may do the same (assuming they've thrown in a hint of elevation change).

  20. #20
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    Sorry guy's, I just can't get past the "Moto's being a problem". A BULLDOZER does less damage to the system than the trails the dirt bikes have been riding out there for over 20 YEARS? It seems the damage has now been doubled. The trails the dirt bikes made are "for the most part" narrow single track with an interesting and challenging route.

    I think this is a solution that was looking for a problem.

    .02c

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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by chipolopolo View Post
    Sorry guy's, I just can't get past the "Moto's being a problem". A BULLDOZER does less damage to the system than the trails the dirt bikes have been riding out there for over 20 YEARS? It seems the damage has now been doubled. The trails the dirt bikes made are "for the most part" narrow single track with an interesting and challenging route.

    I think this is a solution that was looking for a problem.

    .02c

    Steve
    It can be argued that ANY trail is resource damage. I first rode P&D in the early 90s after the Cactus Cup course was lost to the bulldozer and a golf course but soon gave up on it because the endless myriad of moto trails were not that much fun. Yes, there was more than 100 miles (I have the original "100 miles of singletrack map") but most of them were routed aimless through the desert with numerous fall line sections and deep, eroded ruts.

    It's hard to argue with purpose-built sustainable trail even if a bulldozer is the tool and the trails are a bit wider. I'd argue for leaving some challenge in places but it's nice to see that area becoming more of a focus.

    I agree it's too bad the motos are getting shut out. But the soil in that area which is comprised of granitic grus has no clay to hold it together. Motos are pretty tough on that type of tread. That, and with the ever inceasing proximity of neighborhoods they were going to get shut out of the mix. IMO.

  22. #22
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    I moved out to North Scottsdale in about 95' specifically for the MTB and Road riding opps. I could ride (road bike) from Jomax and Happy Valley down to Rio Verde and see like 2 cars. The same was true for the PD trails.

    It always then and even now seems like the trails further to the east on the Alma School alignment were always less grooved, more interesting and challenging. The rides around the powerlines by Pima and Dyn parking were wide, easy and mostly flat.

    The dirt bike community always did and always will have it's rebelious crowd, that would shortcut, do new and damaging climbs and basically not respect the precious resource. But for the most part, they were on the same page as are we. They wanted to keep these trails available long term.

    I come from a point of view that those trails, marked, burned in and ridden by the dirt bikes are THE reason the area is being saved as a preserve in the first place. Those trails gave access to bikes and hikers, which granted an awareness of the extraordinary beauty of the area. A general agreement from all the multiple use groups, it was worth keep from being developed.

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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by chipolopolo View Post
    I
    I come from a point of view that those trails, marked, burned in and ridden by the dirt bikes are THE reason the area is being saved as a preserve in the first place. Those trails gave access to bikes and hikers, which granted an awareness of the extraordinary beauty of the area. A general agreement from all the multiple use groups, it was worth keep from being developed.

    Steve
    I just have to say it but sounds eerily like Sedona just in this case the trailbuilders were motos and in Sedona mtn bikers. And the trail network of P&D in Epicrider's map is an even bigger pile of spaghetti.

    rdit to add: The land manager is trying to regain control of their own backyard and one user-group is (or already has) been excluded.

  24. #24
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    Ya, I suppose. It's all about who's particular ox is being gored at the time. I am from here and think there could have and should be a way for the DB's to keep some access.

    They will just go burn new trails in elsewhere.
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maadjurguer View Post
    Nature of the trails aside, it's encouraging to see so much more attention on mountain biking in a positive light and having the powers that be address the growing need.
    It is very cool to see that and by providing more beginner opportunities you may be helping create a larger base of new mountain bikers, strength in numbers right? The idea is more riders = more trails.

  26. #26
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    I used to ride dirt bikes there starting in 1981. Back then you could ride from my house at 35th ave and Bell and go all the way to the Verde River and beyond if you could find gas without encroaching on neighborhoods (save the odd rancho here or there). The reason dirt bikes got closed out is neighborhoods got built and old rich people from back east hate noise, believe that dirt bikes have no place on public land (because where they are from there is no public land in abundance and dirt bikes are relegated to OHV specific areas that are small or private land), and it ruins the tranquility of the public land that they paid to live next to. Sucks, but that has been the way since dirt bikes were invented so its not a new problem.

    The east side of P&D has always been best for MTB IMO. The west side too busy with moto's and washed out and loose like others have said.

    As far as the new trails and trail heads; I like the fact that a TH has been built. It gives the area legitimacy and means that it will not be sold off for development as many of us had feared for the last 12 years. The new trail is wide, but the land owners cannot afford to come in with shovels and make single track. Certainly it would have been awesome to use some of the existing singletrack, but alas they don't make many trails that cater to just us unfortunately . The way the soil is there, the wide track will soon narrow with vegetation as the erosion creates a more single type trial. It will roughen up and like Easy said-hikers-meh. I like looking at yoga pants and they only last a couple miles. I also think that more of any trail is great. It will decrease the load on other trails some and even though its not "tech", is great as an option for gnar junkies or for those who want to get some great base miles in and not be bored to tears riding a road bike or canal path. Thumbs up!
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  27. #27
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    Personally, I think the new trails out there are terrible. They have no flow. The corners are tight and off-camber, apparently builders don't know how to back cut. The trail is too wide. there are no challenging climbs/descents. There are no bail-out points if you get into trouble and need to get back to a main trail. There is very little drainage cut into the trail, this monsoon season ought to be a nice break-in for them.
    A couple questions:
    Who is building the trails and what experience do they have?
    Why completely destroy existing trails that have been able to handle all traffic, including motos, for 40+ years? Many of those trails have been there since the '70's.
    Why not repair what's there and re-route only where necessary?

  28. #28
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    I am sure it is a matter of economics vs. hiring a great trailbuilder. Plus-maybe they figure the tight off camber turns are the challenge to replace the climbs and descents (of which there is not a lot of elevation to play with anyway).
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  29. #29
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    I have not seen the new stuff, however MOST, not all, of the time a govt. buraucracy get's involved in anything, it get fubared. The BCT is a huge exception in my opinion. I think it is one of the only strokes of genius that bureau has ever done. That is proof that the agency and the capability exists to put in world class trails.

    Look at the old Cactus Cup, what a circle jerk that became. The same people in charge of these new trails were in charge of the builder putting in new trails, which was part of the agreement to develop that area into Estancia. (City of Scottsdale)
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  30. #30
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    Did they leave "Metatate" alone? that whooped downhill was fun!

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by SHNIPE View Post
    Did they leave "Metatate" alone? that whooped downhill was fun!
    I think I'm gonna go out there this weekend and give the new stuff a try. That Metate run was epic. I liked the trail on the south side of the Metate mtn as well. We called it the Luge. It was deeply grooved, lined by cholla. The grooves were so deep you really couldn't pedal much without pedal strikes on the trail.
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by chipolopolo View Post
    I think I'm gonna go out there this weekend and give the new stuff a try. That Metate run was epic. I liked the trail on the south side of the Metate mtn as well. We called it the Luge. It was deeply grooved, lined by cholla. The grooves were so deep you really couldn't pedal much without pedal strikes on the trail.
    I think you mean 30 - where it went from 28 to 24 - one of my favorite sections. It is gone. As is that section of 30 along Granite mountain that was a great bermed out downhill.

    The new trails are really scenic and quite windy. And they go into some areas that did not have trails before. Fairly nice trails in their own right. I think they'll be VERY popular with hikers and some mountain bikers. Definitely a great place to bring someone who is bored with the Pemberton and wants something a little more.

    However, I kept thinking of anti depressants when riding them. All the highs and lows are taken out. No more of those horrible hike a bikes - but also no more fast downhill sections or berms or whoops. All the things I enjoyed about riding out there are pretty much gone. Bad for me, but good for a whole bunch of other people. I expect that this area will be MUCH more popular when this is all done.

  33. #33
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    I saw one of the new sections last Sunday. In my opinion they're ruining that area by sanitizing it for the masses. I've been riding those trails for 20 years on dirt bikes and now a couple on mountain bikes.
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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by dtownmtb View Post
    I think you mean 30 - where it went from 28 to 24 - one of my favorite sections. It is gone. As is that section of 30 along Granite mountain that was a great bermed out downhill.

    The new trails are really scenic and quite windy. And they go into some areas that did not have trails before. Fairly nice trails in their own right. I think they'll be VERY popular with hikers and some mountain bikers. Definitely a great place to bring someone who is bored with the Pemberton and wants something a little more.

    However, I kept thinking of anti depressants when riding them. All the highs and lows are taken out. No more of those horrible hike a bikes - but also no more fast downhill sections or berms or whoops. All the things I enjoyed about riding out there are pretty much gone. Bad for me, but good for a whole bunch of other people. I expect that this area will be MUCH more popular when this is all done.
    I'm sure your right. I never was able to grasp the numbers out there. I was riding out there for 15 years before they numbered it. I knew the "names" the dirt bike community had given them. They were much more colorful than......#24 or #30. Names like Girls Route, Drop Off Trail, Summer Trail, Hidden Trail, 136st Trail.

    Old habits die hard sometimes.

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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by dtownmtb View Post

    However, I kept thinking of anti depressants when riding them. All the highs and lows are taken out.
    I think we now have the inspiration for naming the new trails!
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  36. #36
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    I think I rode Prozac and Valium there today.

  37. #37
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    Rode there today, what a frustrating ride.


    Saw this guy digging up a beautiful singletrack.
    New Trails out at Pima and Dynamite-photo-1.jpg

    Track dug up
    New Trails out at Pima and Dynamite-photo-3.jpg

    Here is sweet trail untill....
    New Trails out at Pima and Dynamite-photo-2.jpg

    COCKBLOCKED !
    New Trails out at Pima and Dynamite-photo-1.jpg


    Habitat Restoration project. Right. Saw torn up trees and cacti all over the place.
    New Trails out at Pima and Dynamite-photo-3.jpg


    Here is the map of my run... pay attention to tracks that suddenly end because of the "restoration". They are destroying trails all over the place, it's sad.

    Mountain Bike Ride Profile | Mar 7, 2013 near Scottsdale | Times and Records | Strava
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails New Trails out at Pima and Dynamite-photo-2.jpg  


  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by metalaficionado View Post
    Habitat Restoration project. Right. Saw torn up trees and cacti all over the place.
    So you don't think that they are actually doing any habitat restoration? They made up the part about "over grazing" just to stick it to MTBRs? That sign is just a not-so-clever ruse?

    On one hand, no one wants to see nice single track obliterated; on the other hand, the land managers are tasked with managing the land.

    I try to take a look at the big picture: Scottsdale bought the land at auction so hikers, MTBs, etc. can enjoy the land instead of views of another subdivision. They (the preserve committee, I presume) have decided that they're not going to keep every trail that was "built" on the land. Bottom line: if developers had grabbed that land, we wouldn't be riding much out there anyway.

    Here's some interesting reading.

    I'm not try to pick a fight, but did anyone really think that they would keep every possible trail that someone had burned-in out there in the last 30 years? ANY trail that you may currently enjoy on Arizona State Trust land could possibly be killed someday. By development or new land manager overloads.

  39. #39
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    THx for the link PhxChem! I read the whole thing! One thing that jumped out at me is the description of notification of meetings. Bridle and Bit- a local equestrian mag got notified, but no mention of any biking sites, shops or fitness mags (of which we have a few) being notified. I wondered why MTB (or MTB/road) does not have a dedicated journal be it paper or electronic? I seem to remember someone in the know posting about the meetings last spring on here-but lets face it MTBR AZ only represents a fraction of the riding community. In the repsonses section of your link I also noticed some great posts from riders, but also hikers and horse riders who outnumbered us a bit. Hmmmm-maybe I am onto an opportunity here...

    Anyway-pretty interesting and since I did not attend the meetings, or participate in anyway I will try not to complain about the new trails when I go out there.
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  40. #40
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    Interesting map. Also interesting that the browns mtn trail is going up and over. I only took it to the really tight switchbacks at the tippity top.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cstem View Post
    THx for the link PhxChem! I read the whole thing! One thing that jumped out at me is the description of notification of meetings. Bridle and Bit- a local equestrian mag got notified, but no mention of any biking sites, shops or fitness mags (of which we have a few) being notified. I wondered why MTB (or MTB/road) does not have a dedicated journal be it paper or electronic? I seem to remember someone in the know posting about theu meetings last spring on here-but lets face it MTBR AZ only represents a fraction of the riding community. In the repsonses section of your link I also noticed some great posts from riders, but also hikers and horse riders who outnumbered us a bit. Hmmmm-maybe I am onto an opportunity here...

    Anyway-pretty interesting and since I did not attend the meetings, or participate in anyway I will try not to complain about the new trails when I go out there.
    Well, I still think anyone can complain if they want to. I mean, if the trails that end up staying suck....then they suck. In the end, they took advice from the different user groups. They, for the most part, don't care what MTBR's think makes a cool trail. In most cases locally, trails with interesting technical features weren't done on purpose...they're just "accidentally" what we like.

  42. #42
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    New Trails out at Pima and Dynamite

    Not saying they can't complain phxchem. Saying I can't because the standard I hold myself to says "if I am not part of the process I am standing in the way".


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  43. #43
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    Trail sanitizing has become more of a problem in the mountain bike community. Sure, more people are riding off road, but at what cost? Mountain biking used to be a challenge. 'If you can't ride the trail, go ride the road.' These days it seems the motto is 'If you can't ride it, move the obstacles and make it easier.' This holds true in the P&D area. The trails they destroyed weren't difficult to begin with, but this 'dumbing down' really makes no sense. The 'masses' can go ride on the asphalt or take up golf. Leave the chunky, rocky, rutted out, sandy goodness that we call gnar to those of us who have the intestinal fortitude to take on the challenge. There are still difficult trails, they're just hidden. No, I won't tell you where they are. Rant over.

  44. #44
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    For the record I wasn't complaining. I just dont recommend riding due to all the construction in progress.
    I did and felt like rat in a maze with all those dead end trails.

    I just hope they won't touch trail 14 - West Express.
    I f@#king love that trail - especially going south - those in the know, know what I am talking about... :big grin:

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by berzerker View Post
    Personally, I think the new trails out there are terrible. They have no flow. The corners are tight and off-camber, apparently builders don't know how to back cut. The trail is too wide. there are no challenging climbs/descents. There are no bail-out points if you get into trouble and need to get back to a main trail. There is very little drainage cut into the trail, this monsoon season ought to be a nice break-in for them.
    A couple questions:
    Who is building the trails and what experience do they have?
    Why completely destroy existing trails that have been able to handle all traffic, including motos, for 40+ years? Many of those trails have been there since the '70's.
    Why not repair what's there and re-route only where necessary?
    I SECOND ALL of this!?!? Wow, what a disappointment. I did 23 miles out there today, mostly because they've destroyed all the connecting trails. There is no connection from the Cholla loop to the Slant mt. side unless you go way up to 21 or down to Power line rd... If you can find it from THE new trail. NO FLOW!!! You can't get any speed, cause your constantly breaking to make 60-120 degree turns; It's pretty awful. There is obviously NOBODY that rides mt. bikes associated with building these new trails. Even the old super sandy trails were more fun. The routing of these trails make no sense, why they just keep turning left and right and left and right and left and left and...

    Quote Originally Posted by SHNIPE View Post
    Did they leave "Metatate" alone? that whooped downhill was fun!
    28/30 is GONE and what they replaced it with is crap.

    Quote Originally Posted by chipolopolo View Post
    I think I'm gonna go out there this weekend and give the new stuff a try. That Metate run was epic. I liked the trail on the south side of the Metate mtn as well. We called it the Luge. It was deeply grooved, lined by cholla. The grooves were so deep you really couldn't pedal much without pedal strikes on the trail.
    28/30 was one of the funnest going south, pumping the whoops and getting high speed all the way down GONE!

    Quote Originally Posted by berzerker View Post
    Trail sanitizing has become more of a problem in the mountain bike community. Sure, more people are riding off road, but at what cost? Mountain biking used to be a challenge. 'If you can't ride the trail, go ride the road.' These days it seems the motto is 'If you can't ride it, move the obstacles and make it easier.' This holds true in the P&D area. The trails they destroyed weren't difficult to begin with, but this 'dumbing down' really makes no sense. The 'masses' can go ride on the asphalt or take up golf. Leave the chunky, rocky, rutted out, sandy goodness that we call gnar to those of us who have the intestinal fortitude to take on the challenge. There are still difficult trails, they're just hidden. No, I won't tell you where they are. Rant over.
    Beginners will get hurt out here on these new double track trails if they get up over 4 MPH, because there are soooooo many turns in these crushed granite trails. I've never had so many front tire wash outs in one ride, even on the super sandy trails.

    I'm posting my ride so you can see where I stopped and back tracked. There are a lot of trails that you can go down until they're destroyed and have to turn around. It's a mess with NO signs except for "Closed," "No Motor Vehicles" and "punishable by fine." Common sense is out of the window and the idea completing one trail at a time and not destroying the other trails until the new ones are finished is no where to be found. No access to Mushroom rock from the north and the rocks at the old 24/30 area all closed from the south. Look closely at my track around the north, east and southwest side of Granite to see all the smalls turns. The whole thing is just kind of sad, especially if they close everything except for the new windy, double track they are cutting; As far as I could see, that is what is going on.

    And the a$$hole that rode the horse on all the new trail after it rained should be shot. I thought the whining about Pemberton horse tracks was a joke, but now I see what they mean when there is a pot hole every 5 inches; Even on a 6 inch bike it was quite annoying.



    Looking north from mushroom rock; You can see where they destroyed access and the reroute.
    New Trails out at Pima and Dynamite-img_3140.jpg
    Looking at Mushroom from the reroute.
    New Trails out at Pima and Dynamite-img_3143.jpg
    Looking down from the rocks at 24/30; destroyed access from south and other trails in the distance
    New Trails out at Pima and Dynamite-img_3144.jpg
    Trail from Brown's Ranch toward 24 and Metate rock... CLOSED, dead end.
    New Trails out at Pima and Dynamite-img_3145.jpg
    Last edited by MTB Pilot; 03-17-2013 at 07:34 PM.
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  46. #46
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    MTB Pilot,
    Thanks for your very informative post on this. I "cut my MTB teeth" out there. I rode (and lived) out there for 16 years. The trails were very well thought out by guys that had a vision. The guys names were something Murphy and Dave Dugan (RIP) They spent years walking lines, ribboning off proposed lines, riding said lines and deciding if they were what they wanted or not.

    These trails were not some after thought, herky jerky attempt at some underground trails.

    Enter City of Scottsdale. They completely lack the cred to even begin to lay out trails people will ride/like/frequent. They fubared the Cactus Cup (allowed a developer to do it) and now another part of my MTB history is...history.

    last weekend, CSTEM and I did BCT. We spoke at length about this very subject, the point was, there are obviously govt. agencies (BLM) that have the knowledge or are willing to listen to those with knowledge about trails and trail building. The BCT system is for the most part a single track work of supreme art. It has it all, line, flow etc. It is interesting all the time but lacks what MTB Pilot describes as "gratuitous turns" just for the sake of turns.

    Too bad. There are still copious amounts of good stuff to ride east of there and even into the forest.

    Thanks again for taking the time to inform the MTB community.

    Regards,

    Steve
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  47. #47
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    NO METATATE :O FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!! that was really the only reason I liked that area. What a disaster!

    New Trails out at Pima and Dynamite-fuuuuu.png

  48. #48
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    Fuel....Fire.....

  49. #49
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    Here's just an idea..don't shoot me...but maybe an old school MTBR group ride out there to help bed the trails in is in order? It would probably accomplish more than complaining about the about the new trail system which won't actually DO anything.

    Nothing will do those trails better than 20 sets of knobbies rolling through there all at once to help bed it in.
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  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by blaklabl View Post
    Here's just an idea..don't shoot me...but maybe an old school MTBR group ride out there to help bed the trails in is in order? It would probably accomplish more than complaining about the about the new trail system which won't actually DO anything.

    Nothing will do those trails better than 20 sets of knobbies rolling through there all at once to help bed it in.
    I like your style blaklabl. Count me in but lets do it quick! I start training in Michigan Sun-Thur for the next few weeks. A place like this probably begs for weekday rides to avoid hikers I would guess?
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  51. #51
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    I don't know how many people would be available for a weekday ride, I probably couldn't do it unless it didn't start until around 5 (that inconvenient job of mine). If someone wants to organize it I'll be there, I only live a few miles away.
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  52. #52
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    We rode out there on Sunday to see what these 'great' new trails were like and it was a complete goat***k. No signs, dead ends, and poorly designed trails that made no sense. The city calls this a preserve, and the destruction of established trails to build new ones that are designed for hikers only leaves huge scars that will not heal for many years. That's not preserving or conserving the area as it was and has been. It would make complete sense to fix the existing trails but the big heads have what they think are better ideas. I was a steward for the MSC way back when it was a grass roots organization, and left because it has turned into a political machine that has lost sight of why it was founded. Things change and nothing remains the same, but this has gone in the wrong direction.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by cstem View Post
    I like your style blaklabl. Count me in but lets do it quick! I start training in Michigan Sun-Thur for the next few weeks. A place like this probably begs for weekday rides to avoid hikers I would guess?
    Never did I see a single hiker at P & D. Motos, horses, mtbers and even kids with paintball guns... not one hiker.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by metalaficionado View Post
    Never did I see a single hiker at P & D. Motos, horses, mtbers and even kids with paintball guns... not one hiker.
    I know exactly what you mean-I just pulled a bigot move and lumped them all in together-Archie Bunker style! I guess I should have asked how is the new area traffic wise?
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  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by cstem View Post
    I know exactly what you mean-I just pulled a bigot move and lumped them all in together-Archie Bunker style! I guess I should have asked how is the new area traffic wise?
    Sound like something one of them fairy commies would do, meathead!

    When I did the Granite Mountain Loop on Sunday afternoon, I saw 0 people during that short run. Heard some motos far in the distance. There was another car parked at the gate with mine when I started, gone when I came back....didn't see the person.

    Things may change after the new Alma School TH is opens up.

  56. #56
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    Ive seen the hikers spoken of in folklore but never seen on camera. They are a rare breed out there and very shy. They sprint off into the bushes when approached and scream if you get too close!

  57. #57
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    New Trails out at Pima and Dynamite

    Well if its not a foot fest then let's get a group going this weekend. I am in early Saturday or later afternoon.


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  58. #58
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    I just came from my 'blue shirt' bike patrol meeting, and the north area was discussed at length tonight. Cato - the conditions you found sound like what was described tonight, a work in progress. The signs are not in, not all the trails are in or connected yet, and not everything has been mitigated. I have not been out there in a while, so I plan on riding out there this weekend for some first hand perspective.

    I am sure I am going to be bummed that some of my favorite connectors are closed, but I am keeping an open mind. The official opening is sometime in May (I believe) and sounds like there is quite a bit to be done still. I recall similar conditions leading up to the Tom's Thumb trailhead grand opening last fall.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cato View Post
    We rode out there on Sunday to see what these 'great' new trails were like and it was a complete goat***k. No signs, dead ends, and poorly designed trails that made no sense. The city calls this a preserve, and the destruction of established trails to build new ones that are designed for hikers only leaves huge scars that will not heal for many years. That's not preserving or conserving the area as it was and has been. It would make complete sense to fix the existing trails but the big heads have what they think are better ideas. I was a steward for the MSC way back when it was a grass roots organization, and left because it has turned into a political machine that has lost sight of why it was founded. Things change and nothing remains the same, but this has gone in the wrong direction.

  59. #59
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    Mixed Feeling about the New Pima/Dynomite Trails

    I have ridden the new trails 4-5 times over the last month and have mixed feelings about them. While I appreciate the milage and where the trails go, I really miss the speed and challenge of the old trails. On the new trails, turns appear out of nowhere and for no apparant reason except to curb speed. Its frustrating. I never liked the speed-bumps in my neighborhood and I sure don't like them on the trails I'm riding. I'm really hoping that, as time goes by and these trails see action, berms will appear so that more speed can be had on those trails.
    On a positive note, I could definitely see this area being used more by newer riders. From what I can see so far, they would have to go elsewhere, though, to find more advanced trails if they want to continue to build their skills.
    I plan to ride out there again today if anyone wants to join me. I rode in from 136th street yesterday and am thinking to go in from Pima/Dynomite late afternoon today.

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