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  1. #1
    Just another half mile...
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    New Trails out at Pima and Dynamite

    Since the City of Scottsdale last big land purchase of most of the remaining P&D area north of Dynamite, they have been busy building. A new trailhead is underconstruction at the north end of Alma School and the TH at 136th and Lone Mountain will be under construction soon (parking lot staked out). If I remember right, there are three trail crews out there building trail. So far they have looped around Cholla and Granite Mountains and are builing a hiking only trail up to the top of Slant Mountain. Rode some to the new stuff yesterday, a lot more enjoyable than a lot of the rutted out fall line moto trails. In the areas where new trails are being built, they are obliterating the adjacent moto trails. The trails that have been completed are open to ride, but are not signed (all the old state land signs are being taken down), so us at your own risk. I have updated my map showing the new trails we rode yesteday. Saw lots of other new trails breaking off. If you come across a new trail that is closed due to construction, please stay out until it's done and the signs are gone. Here a few pics showing new stuff. They did a pretty good job routing the trails through some nice stands of Saguaros!

    MAP showing new trails in GREEN

    New P&D 3-3-13 at EveryTrail
    EveryTrail - Find the best Hiking in Arizona
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails New Trails out at Pima and Dynamite-p1060740_exposure.jpg  

    New Trails out at Pima and Dynamite-p1060742_exposure.jpg  

    New Trails out at Pima and Dynamite-p1060750_exposure.jpg  

    New Trails out at Pima and Dynamite-p1060753_exposure.jpg  

    New Trails out at Pima and Dynamite-p1060757_exposure.jpg  

    New Trails out at Pima and Dynamite-p1060768_exposure.jpg  

    New Trails out at Pima and Dynamite-p1060769_exposure.jpg  


  2. #2
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    Are there any bike clubs involved with the build? How would you describe the layout? Are the motos really pissed?
    There is a big difference between ripping and skidding.

  3. #3
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    Motos aren't pissed because they are still riding on them and tearing them up, nothing is stopping them at the moment from doing so. I spoke with one of the groups of trail builders and they were pissed about the motos tearing them up.

    The flow is super fun, like a big roller coaster but nothing technical. The loop around granite is a good little weekday tuneup ride that has has some nice little climbs and descents in there to keep you going.

  4. #4
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    I get why they are Pembertonizing the trails - they want to appeal to a broad user base of less skilled riders. But, I'm still kinda sad. While the new trails flow fine, they aren't nearly as much fun as the old, raw moto-made trails. The challenge is pretty much gone. I'm guessing that we'll start to see people on road bikes out there - like I saw on the Pemberton last week.

    Sad to hear that trail up slant is going to be hiker only. It is a nice little grunt on a bike. Unlike Tom's Thumb, it is rideable by mortals.

    That trail head looks like it is going to be pretty big. I wonder if this will get the kind of crowds the Gateway area gets?

  5. #5
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    awesome quail hunting in this area
    fat old man ... fueled by Mexican pastries....

  6. #6
    My other ride is your mom
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    Nature of the trails aside, it's encouraging to see so much more attention on mountain biking in a positive light and having the powers that be address the growing need.

  7. #7
    Just another half mile...
    Reputation: Epicrider's Avatar
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    No clubs involved, but there were several open houses last year for people to provide input on the trail master plan.

    I would imagine some of the motos are pissed, but they still have all the moto trails in the Tonto to ride. In addition to building trails and trailhead parking, they are also installing pipe rail fencing along the new park boundary at the OHV access areas. Lots of new fencing wnet up along Dynamite the last couple of weeks. My guess they will get around to the north side eventually to block access from the Tonto National Forest. Eventually the motos will get the message and stop riding the new park area. There will always be renagades. At one time PMP and SoMo were OHV play grounds until they where bought by the city and turned into preserves. Same thing here.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maadjurguer View Post
    Nature of the trails aside, it's encouraging to see so much more attention on mountain biking in a positive light and having the powers that be address the growing need.
    Agree. I'm just sad to see my private playground get "found out" by the world. I used to be able to ride out there during the week and never see another person. That is going to change dramatically. But that's just how things go.

    Say what you want about Snottsdale, they have made a big commitment to keeping lots of open spaces and allowing (non motorized) recreation in those spaces. I am constantly amazed at the amount of money the city (actually the people who buy stuff in S'dale) is willing to put into acquiring open land and putting trails through it. Sure it is all in the name of getting tourists out here, but we all benefit. They could have gone many other ways that would really suck. So props to them.

  9. #9
    Just another half mile...
    Reputation: Epicrider's Avatar
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    I'm not totally sure about no bikes on Slant, but i think that what I overhead at one time. We'll see once they officially open the trails.

    I doubt that Alma School TH will get the traffic that Gateway gets, at least it will take some of the load off Gateway and spread people out. My guess we will see a lot more equestrian trail use especially over on the east side where there a lot of horse properties east of 136th and equestrian friendy trailheads.

    As far as Pembertonizing the trails, I think it's great that there are more of this level of trails available now. As little five years ago, there were not that many opportunities for beginner riders and those who do not wish to ride technical trails to ride. You may think the new trails are not challenging, but to a begenniner, they are a challenge. There are plenty of technical trails to ride in the valley to keep the chunk monkeys happy.

  10. #10
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    If it gets more people outside, I'm okay with it.

    And yeah, Scottsdale's commitment to recreational land is very impressive.

  11. #11
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    Thanks for the maps Epic! Did you not have a site you put them all up at or do you just use everytrail?
    Find a ride on FB> AZ MTB

    "Uppercase with a space"

  12. #12
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    I am glad they bought the land but the trails we pretty easy to begin with, they didn't need dumbing down.

    Alma school TH is nice but that means more people.
    I used just park on a shoulder off Dynamite and ride from there.

    There are awesome trails out there, you just have to know where to go otherwise you can be stuck on sandy jeep road.

  13. #13
    Just another half mile...
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    My Website got hacked last year and lost all that was on the site. Slowly repopulating my site as people request maps and as I find time to update them.

    Singletrack.us MAPS

  14. #14
    Give it a crank
    Reputation: Mtn-Rider's Avatar
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    As soon as the new trailheads are open, hikers will immediately flood the area just like they did when the new north TT trailhead opened last year. It's actually a good thing to see big crowds seek the outdoors like that.

    Plus, two more trailheads means all the users will just spread out more among them and reduce trail traffic in any one area. Those trails look too easy though, no climbs just sucks like Pembo.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn-Rider View Post
    As soon as the new trailheads are open, hikers will immediately flooded the area just like they did when the new north TT trailhead opened last year. It's actually a good thing to see big crowds seek the outdoors like that.
    Good news is, once you get more than a mile from where you can park a car, the pedestrian traffic will be greatly minimized. Seems like that's how it always is in Sedona or at the Canyon.

    We wanna see the cool stuff, but not if we have to walk more than a half hour. Or not if there's no reception for my iPhone. Whatever, more for me.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy_E View Post
    If it gets more people outside, I'm okay with it.

    And yeah, Scottsdale's commitment to recreational land is very impressive.
    YEP, it's why I often toss the bike in the truck, and head over to my Dad's house ... Scottsdale has some of the best recreational planning in the State.

  17. #17
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    Just go at the crack of dawn to avoid all the traffic. By the time i was done on saturday there must have been about 10 riders out around granite mtn area.

  18. #18
    livin' the dream......
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    Hikers want a destination to get to, then turn around and go back (not talking backpackers, etc, just your local day hiker with an hour of time to spend). That destination is normally up a mountain or down a canyon. There is so much rolling / flat terrain out of the Alma School TH, that I think hiking activity will peak early, then die off at this TH. I think riders of horse & bike and trail runners will be the longterm user of this area.

    To help make my point, when you ride @ Tom's Thumb, that parking lot can be pretty darn full, but as you ride toward Marcus Landslide or Rock Knob, there are not many people. Why? The majority are all hiking toward the destination of Tom's.

    Look at Camelback vs. Papago Park. No cars lined up to pull into Papago to just go walk out to Eliot Ramada & back. Not much of a hike. Go a few miles north of Papago and it is a different deal.

    I am excited and a bit bummed at the same time. This time last year I would ride in to Pemberton from 128th st & Pinnacle Peak with just a hand full of cars out there. Different story now, like dtownmtb said.

  19. #19
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    The thing about the "dumbed down" trails in the P&D area is that it appears that these are newly-cut trails not just merely sanitized. Although it is machine-built and might initially look like a relatively tame trail (I have yet to actually ride it to really tell), many trails over time seem to become more "seasoned" after a couple of good years of monsoon storms. For example, while Deem Hills was machine-built, I don't think anyone would call its current condition sanitized. Deem Hills seems to have become rockier and more more fun (and some spots more challenging) over time. I suspect the P&D trails may do the same (assuming they've thrown in a hint of elevation change).

  20. #20
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    Sorry guy's, I just can't get past the "Moto's being a problem". A BULLDOZER does less damage to the system than the trails the dirt bikes have been riding out there for over 20 YEARS? It seems the damage has now been doubled. The trails the dirt bikes made are "for the most part" narrow single track with an interesting and challenging route.

    I think this is a solution that was looking for a problem.

    .02c

    Steve
    Drinkin the S-Works Kool-aid

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by chipolopolo View Post
    Sorry guy's, I just can't get past the "Moto's being a problem". A BULLDOZER does less damage to the system than the trails the dirt bikes have been riding out there for over 20 YEARS? It seems the damage has now been doubled. The trails the dirt bikes made are "for the most part" narrow single track with an interesting and challenging route.

    I think this is a solution that was looking for a problem.

    .02c

    Steve
    It can be argued that ANY trail is resource damage. I first rode P&D in the early 90s after the Cactus Cup course was lost to the bulldozer and a golf course but soon gave up on it because the endless myriad of moto trails were not that much fun. Yes, there was more than 100 miles (I have the original "100 miles of singletrack map") but most of them were routed aimless through the desert with numerous fall line sections and deep, eroded ruts.

    It's hard to argue with purpose-built sustainable trail even if a bulldozer is the tool and the trails are a bit wider. I'd argue for leaving some challenge in places but it's nice to see that area becoming more of a focus.

    I agree it's too bad the motos are getting shut out. But the soil in that area which is comprised of granitic grus has no clay to hold it together. Motos are pretty tough on that type of tread. That, and with the ever inceasing proximity of neighborhoods they were going to get shut out of the mix. IMO.

  22. #22
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    I moved out to North Scottsdale in about 95' specifically for the MTB and Road riding opps. I could ride (road bike) from Jomax and Happy Valley down to Rio Verde and see like 2 cars. The same was true for the PD trails.

    It always then and even now seems like the trails further to the east on the Alma School alignment were always less grooved, more interesting and challenging. The rides around the powerlines by Pima and Dyn parking were wide, easy and mostly flat.

    The dirt bike community always did and always will have it's rebelious crowd, that would shortcut, do new and damaging climbs and basically not respect the precious resource. But for the most part, they were on the same page as are we. They wanted to keep these trails available long term.

    I come from a point of view that those trails, marked, burned in and ridden by the dirt bikes are THE reason the area is being saved as a preserve in the first place. Those trails gave access to bikes and hikers, which granted an awareness of the extraordinary beauty of the area. A general agreement from all the multiple use groups, it was worth keep from being developed.

    Steve
    Drinkin the S-Works Kool-aid

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by chipolopolo View Post
    I
    I come from a point of view that those trails, marked, burned in and ridden by the dirt bikes are THE reason the area is being saved as a preserve in the first place. Those trails gave access to bikes and hikers, which granted an awareness of the extraordinary beauty of the area. A general agreement from all the multiple use groups, it was worth keep from being developed.

    Steve
    I just have to say it but sounds eerily like Sedona just in this case the trailbuilders were motos and in Sedona mtn bikers. And the trail network of P&D in Epicrider's map is an even bigger pile of spaghetti.

    rdit to add: The land manager is trying to regain control of their own backyard and one user-group is (or already has) been excluded.

  24. #24
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    Ya, I suppose. It's all about who's particular ox is being gored at the time. I am from here and think there could have and should be a way for the DB's to keep some access.

    They will just go burn new trails in elsewhere.
    Drinkin the S-Works Kool-aid

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maadjurguer View Post
    Nature of the trails aside, it's encouraging to see so much more attention on mountain biking in a positive light and having the powers that be address the growing need.
    It is very cool to see that and by providing more beginner opportunities you may be helping create a larger base of new mountain bikers, strength in numbers right? The idea is more riders = more trails.

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