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  1. #1
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    New Trail in Gold Canyon CALLED HOO DOO

    Hello All
    New trail finished today, This trail is not for everyone, the uphill is a lung buster and the down hill is very technical but fun.
    This is a Black Diamond going up and one spot is Double Black Diamond coming down.
    It has awesome panoramic views of the Valley Floor.
    This trail is called Hoo Doo and you will see why toward the end of the trail.
    If you are not a true expert rider DO NOT RIDE THIS TRAIL,

    This trail has a lot of solid rock off camber with exposure.
    Coming later this summer will be a separate downhill called The Gorge.

    The trail start is off Lost Goldmine about a 1.3 miles from the Cloudview parking lot, it is only marked with a Caren at the top of the down hill to Cougar.
    DO NOT RIDE THIS TRAIL ALONE TAKE A CRAZY FRIEND WITH YOU AND A CELL PHONE.
    THERE IS AN OLD MOUNTAIN LION THAT LIKES TO WATCH US CRAZIES GO DOWN THE BACKSIDE.

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    Added to Trailforks this morning. Thanks for the description.

    Man, I wish I would've seen this two days earlier!! I did a Gold Canyon ride y'day and hit every trail out there...except ONE now. I guess I'll have to do it again in the fall.

    Gold Canyon: Everything but the Kitchen Sink (and Hoo Doo!!)
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    Quote Originally Posted by schillingsworth View Post
    Added to Trailforks this morning. Thanks for the description.

    Man, I wish I would've seen this two days earlier!! I did a Gold Canyon ride y'day and hit every trail out there...except ONE now. I guess I'll have to do it again in the fall.

    Gold Canyon: Everything but the Kitchen Sink (and Hoo Doo!!)
    Damn John,
    Seems like you did not get it all. Time to ride GC again!
    Joe
    '18 Specialized Epic 29", Vassago Verhauen SS 29", '13 Santa Cruz Solo 27.5", XC, AM, blah blah blah.. I just ride.

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    TD, Thanks for the new tech trail. I look forward to riding it soon.

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    Awesome. Thank you for making GC even better.
    The only trace I leave behind is tire marks.

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    TD sounds you have created the most technical trail at GC. What I am curious about is how you designed it so it won't become a scar on the landscape. Can you explain your build technique that keeps the trail from developing a deep rut that land mangers love to demonize our sport for irresponsible trail builds.

    Maybe the trail tread is totally on a rock surface like the Avalanche trail in Pinecrest. Please do a video of the route so we can enjoy the exciting masterpiece piece you have created for the ??%'ers. Doesn't sound like my old lesser skill body will be riding it.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Switchblade2 View Post
    TD sounds you have created the most technical trail at GC. What I am curious about is how you designed it so it won't become a scar on the landscape. Can you explain your build technique that keeps the trail from developing a deep rut that land mangers love to demonize our sport for irresponsible trail builds.

    Maybe the trail tread is totally on a rock surface like the Avalanche trail in Pinecrest. Please do a video of the route so we can enjoy the exciting masterpiece piece you have created for the ??%'ers. Doesn't sound like my old lesser skill body will be riding it.
    leave it to you, all upset because a trail wasn't made for wheel chairs or Wal-Mart riders. Trail designer, (I wont call you TD, you don't want to get in that mess) as long as it's legally built thanks for making a tech type trail. I can't wait to get out there and try it.
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    TB don't you think the mountain bike community should build trails on public land that are sustainable and have a fighting chance to be considered adoptable in the future? Maybe this trail is one of the exceptions that was built responsibly and could be an example of how to build sustainable trails for the higher skilled group.
    Last edited by rockcrusher; 05-09-2017 at 10:15 AM.

  9. #9
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    Switchblade2 can never reply to a post without a condescending question that he does not want answered...
    Last edited by Phillbo; 11-13-2017 at 10:21 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by schillingsworth View Post
    Added to Trailforks this morning. Thanks for the description.

    Man, I wish I would've seen this two days earlier!! I did a Gold Canyon ride y'day and hit every trail out there...except ONE now. I guess I'll have to do it again in the fall.

    Gold Canyon: Everything but the Kitchen Sink (and Hoo Doo!!)
    I would love to see extracts from your ride, that are XC or techy-oriented. Wouldnt it be fun to come up with mortal-sized 3-4 hr routes through GC for different flavors??!?!?! You could be a world-class ambassador to your riding area of choice. I've designed so many routes in the McDs, and used to be able to for Hawes. Its fun to be a local!!! This is a shout-out to all of you GC experts out there. I get there 1-2x a year, and am dreaming of a plus wheel enduro route. I've hit everything out there so far on my 29er 100mm, am dying for this new tech trail. Jodie's Dream was magnificent - thank you builders!!

  11. #11
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    Hoo Doo pics
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails New Trail in Gold Canyon CALLED HOO DOO-img_3716.jpg  

    New Trail in Gold Canyon CALLED HOO DOO-img_3686.jpg  

    New Trail in Gold Canyon CALLED HOO DOO-img_3683.jpg  

    New Trail in Gold Canyon CALLED HOO DOO-img_3682.jpg  


  12. #12
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    That looks like a pretty sustainable trail surface. Excellent route finding. Please take a video of the whole route. The guys in Moab are going to be jealous.

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    Well Done!!!!!
    Looking forward to riding it in November.
    GC is really getting to be a fun for all area to ride.
    Thanks, and cheers.
    TS

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    Does Switchblade2 = Traildoc?

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    Quote Originally Posted by seandm View Post
    Does Switchblade2 = Traildoc?
    Yes, Trail Doc to 50cents to Switchblade2 to???
    There may be more out there
    "We'll ride it until they pave it."

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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by chollaball View Post
    I would love to see extracts from your ride, that are XC or techy-oriented. Wouldnt it be fun to come up with mortal-sized 3-4 hr routes through GC for different flavors??!?!?! You could be a world-class ambassador to your riding area of choice. I've designed so many routes in the McDs, and used to be able to for Hawes. Its fun to be a local!!! This is a shout-out to all of you GC experts out there. I get there 1-2x a year, and am dreaming of a plus wheel enduro route. I've hit everything out there so far on my 29er 100mm, am dying for this new tech trail. Jodie's Dream was magnificent - thank you builders!!
    Here you go CB: Gold Canyon Tech Route
    Click the 'Wishlist' button so it'll sync with the Trailforks app. I built this in the TF route builder, seemed to work well, but you are limited to 100 route points FYI.

    I also tried making this in the Strava route builder, but couldn't get it to recognize anything out there, complete FAIL. I enabled the heatmap overlay and it didn't do a darn thing to aid in the route building process. Has anyone successfully created a route in Gold Canyon specifically using Strava?
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by seandm View Post
    Does Switchblade2 = Traildoc?
    That was my assumption.

    It's funny has quickly one's "voice" can be recognized.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirtrider127 View Post
    Yes, Trail Doc to 50cents to Switchblade2 to???
    There may be more out there
    That explains alot!
    Joe
    '18 Specialized Epic 29", Vassago Verhauen SS 29", '13 Santa Cruz Solo 27.5", XC, AM, blah blah blah.. I just ride.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirtrider127 View Post
    Yes, Trail Doc to 50cents to Switchblade2 to???
    There may be more out there
    There are.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trail Designer View Post
    This is a Black Diamond going up and one spot is Double Black Diamond coming down.
    Nice to see some elevation out at GC, this is such a fun place to go ride, so twisty fun.

    What constitutes a "Black Diamond" or a "Double Black Diamond". Looking at Lost Goldmine and K-Trial those are flagged as Black Diamond and really do not seem technical at all?

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    Quote Originally Posted by In2falling View Post
    Nice to see some elevation out at GC, this is such a fun place to go ride, so twisty fun.

    What constitutes a "Black Diamond" or a "Double Black Diamond". Looking at Lost Goldmine and K-Trial those are flagged as Black Diamond and really do not seem technical at all?

    ^^^^^Maybe the amount of cactus that can reach out and grab you?
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    OK; already.
    Lets get back to some Sedonarama! We can't have GC stealing the ;limelight from the big boys!
    But it surely IS a fun place to ride for a couple of days.
    Incidentally, you can camp on the East side of GC by going East on Peralta Road a mile or 6; as long as you have a State Trust Rec Permit; now available online.
    Cheers.
    TS

  23. #23
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    Rode this today and it is a real tester. Next time will surely go better, but route-finding plus unknown challenges had us walking more than we'd like. what a great new trail.

  24. #24
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    New Trail in Gold Canyon CALLED HOO DOO-img_20170514_075813.jpg

    This I think was the start of the double black section, and it deserves the classification. After climbing and traversing along a very off-camber section of rockface for most of the trail, you start a series of very tight steep rollouts. They were built up so not a lot of chunk drops, but constant pucker. This one (i think) rolls down into a tight passage with a steep roll, and immediately you have to make a steep tight S into another tight roll over stacked rocks, etc, etc, about til you see the video posted earlier in the thread. All 3 of us walked it not know the line through the S. Humber suggestion would be to mark that better so you can see the required turns before you are on top of them. This section is far-and-away harder than anything else at GC. The rock rolls on Phantom, Pedal Dam You, Tech Trail etc are not anywhere near as hard.

    That all said, the work at GC on these rock lines is very solid and you start to trust it a lot like you trust some of the hidden rollouts in Sedona. "Where You Fromme" was a pleasure to hit, first time for me on it and Phantom. I also got for the first time ever the high line through the big rock pile on K Tech Trail that requires jumping the exit. We rode a lot of John Schilling's proposed tech route on plus wheels, very fun routes. I've got some mods for next time, but overall an awesome techy ride.

  25. #25
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    Rode Hoo Doo on Saturday. Such great use of the terrain. GC builders have sure put together some amazing, well thought out lines.

    Hoo Doo is definelty one of the most tech trails in East Valley. I wish I would have sessioned it a few times.

    Thank you again to Trail Designer and anyone else that helped. I hope you have more planned. 😀

  26. #26
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    Checked out Hoo Doo on Friday afternoon, but left the Voodoo at home. That trail is exactly what Gold Canyon needed. Not exactly my kind of riding, but that's all on me. I don't handle the gnarly steep downhills so well, but I don't mind walking what I can't / won't ride.

    Here are a few pics from the trail:
    New Trail in Gold Canyon CALLED HOO DOO-img_20170512_180828_814.jpg
    Off camber 'Superstition Slickrock' climb. Watch your uphill pedal!!

    New Trail in Gold Canyon CALLED HOO DOO-20170512_125216.jpg
    Dropping down into the boulders.

    New Trail in Gold Canyon CALLED HOO DOO-img_20170512_181554_605.jpg
    Steep, twisting descent through a rock chute.

    New Trail in Gold Canyon CALLED HOO DOO-20170512_125516.jpg
    Optional boulder roll near the trail runout to Lost Goldmine.
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    Quote Originally Posted by schillingsworth View Post
    Checked out Hoo Doo on Friday afternoon, but left the Voodoo at home. That trail is exactly what Gold Canyon needed. Not exactly my kind of riding, but that's all on me. I don't handle the gnarly steep downhills so well, but I don't mind walking what I can't / won't ride.

    Here are a few pics from the trail:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Off camber 'Superstition Slickrock' climb. Watch your uphill pedal!!

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Dropping down into the boulders.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Steep, twisting descent through a rock chute.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Optional boulder roll near the trail runout to Lost Goldmine.
    Great write up John. Do you think any first aid supplies out at the 5%'er sections would be a good idea? Possibly a back board, splints and tape would help in a bad crash.

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    Quote Originally Posted by switchblade2 View Post
    great write up john. Do you think any first aid supplies out at the 5%'er sections would be a good idea? Possibly a back board, splints and tape would help in a bad crash.

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    Rode this today. No way I could clean it or even close- but you can lump me in the 40 or so %er's anyway. There were a few sections that was hard to tell where the trail continued which was a little annoying, but this definitely added some spice out there. I was the only rider I saw all day and the conditions were perfect.

    Quick section of a part I actually was able to ride.

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    I'mma have to try this soon. Along with El Diablo at Brown's Ranch...

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    Quote Originally Posted by big0mike View Post
    I'mma have to try this soon. Along with El Diablo at Brown's Ranch...
    Diablo is fun, well worth it and I have a hoot every time, but my 11yo can clean all of it. This was like Schilling said very reminiscent of Hangover. its not the same ballpark, not the same league, its not even the same mothereffin sport.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillbo View Post
    Phil just cant quit you TrailDoc. Send him a picture and jar of lube.

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    chollaball thanks for your support. I spoke with rockman the other day and he understands that MTBR viewers have options.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chollaball View Post
    Diablo is fun, well worth it and I have a hoot every time, but my 11yo can clean all of it. This was like Schilling said very reminiscent of Hangover. its not the same ballpark, not the same league, its not even the same mothereffin sport.
    Good to know. Never ridden Hangover. Never ridden anything in Sedona...

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    So, looking at Trailforks I'm planning a trip out there.

    Park at Hierogliphic. Lost Goldmine > Hoo Doo > Lost Goldmine > K Trail > Tech Loop > K Trail > Mohave > Diamondback > Lost Goldmine > Hierogliphic

    That looks like it covers a lot of the "good" stuff in 12ish miles. A lot more black on the map considering everything I've heard about Gold Canyon is how tame it is. Which is why I've never been. Well, that and the fact that it's an hour and a half away. Wondering if some of that black is not warranted? Or maybe I just haven't been paying attention.

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    Mike, Before K, take Jodi's Dream, then into K, After K, take Phantom and Black Diamond. Then cut back into K and the Phantom exit and make a left on the Tech Loop. Then head over towards Vortex and back to staging. My take at least. Those four trails trails have some real fun features incorporated into the trail and it all flows together well.

  37. #37
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    I'm so bummed I don't live out there anymore. I was in the East Valley from 2002-2007. I miss it every day!
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  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by SugarHigh View Post
    Mike, Before K, take Jodi's Dream, then into K, After K, take Phantom and Black Diamond. Then cut back into K and the Phantom exit and make a left on the Tech Loop. Then head over towards Vortex and back to staging. My take at least. Those four trails trails have some real fun features incorporated into the trail and it all flows together well.
    I'd do exactly this. Don't miss Jodi's Dream and Phantom. I'd agree most isn't exactly black diamond save for a few smaller sections here and there. An intermediate rider would have tons of fun out there.
    16 Stumpy Elite 650B

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    Big O: I'll add this, the Black Diamond ratings are really for the few sections on the trail that may warrant that designation. Most of the Black trails out there are more blue-black in nature, but that rating system doesn't exist. I'd hesitate to rate them blue, not so much for the gnar factor, just many tricky spots along the way. I think the black rating helps keep riders more aware than anything.

    I'd follow Sugar's recommendation, don't miss Jodie's Dream. Not sure what he's referring to as 'Black Diamond' trail, nothing out there goes by that name. There's a small loop off Phantom called 'Where ya Fromme', take that for sure. When you reach the Tech Loop, it's designed to be ridden in a CCW direction. On your return to the Cloudview TH, take Vortex - Gila Monster - 2GM connector. That's a fun way to get back. If you still have some riding left in ya, take Cougar up to Lost Goldmine and back to the trailhead.

    Diamondback & Mohave are purely XC type trails, you'll want the other stuff. Also, keep you eyes peeled on the fast sections of K-Trail after the swoopy wash crossings, there a few rock b-lines to roll over.
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    John, The cut off of Phantom is what I was referring to. I could swear I saw a sign on it called Black Diamond. It is basically a 1/2 mile or so alt line of Phantom. It has a handful of rock features to navigate.

    Happy to see the support on my route recommendation. I rarely get out there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by big0mike View Post
    So, looking at Trailforks I'm planning a trip out there.

    Park at Hierogliphic. Lost Goldmine > Hoo Doo > Lost Goldmine > K Trail > Tech Loop > K Trail > Mohave > Diamondback > Lost Goldmine > Hierogliphic

    That looks like it covers a lot of the "good" stuff in 12ish miles. A lot more black on the map considering everything I've heard about Gold Canyon is how tame it is. Which is why I've never been. Well, that and the fact that it's an hour and a half away. Wondering if some of that black is not warranted? Or maybe I just haven't been paying attention.
    agree with the routing you are getting from Sugar and Schilling. Where Ya Fromme is awesome. You dont need a big squishy bike for any of this.Avoid Vortex a double-track is better.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by SugarHigh View Post
    John, The cut off of Phantom is what I was referring to. I could swear I saw a sign on it called Black Diamond. It is basically a 1/2 mile or so alt line of Phantom. It has a handful of rock features to navigate.

    Happy to see the support on my route recommendation. I rarely get out there.
    Gotcha. I know the 'Where ya Fromme' sign has a couple of black diamonds on it. OR I just missed it. Either way, more rock features = more betterer.

    I put a short blog post together for Hoo Doo. A few more pics, etc.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SugarHigh View Post
    Mike, Before K, take Jodi's Dream, then into K, After K, take Phantom and Black Diamond. Then cut back into K and the Phantom exit and make a left on the Tech Loop. Then head over towards Vortex and back to staging. My take at least. Those four trails trails have some real fun features incorporated into the trail and it all flows together well.
    TH > Lost Goldmine > Hoo Doo > Lost Goldmine > K > Jodi's Dream > K > Phantom (and Where Ya Fromme?) > KiKi > Secret > GC DT > K > Tech Loop > K > Vortex > Gila Monster > 2GM > then either Cougar > Lost Goldmine or Gold Canyon back to lot.

    The reason I picked Mohave/Diamondback is it spits me out at the top of Lost Goldmine so I get to go down everything I just climbed.

    As slow as I am this may be pushing me past my heat index level... What's a normal person do this in? My time will be close to double that...

    Quote Originally Posted by chollaball View Post
    agree with the routing you are getting from Sugar and Schilling. Where Ya Fromme is awesome. You dont need a big squishy bike for any of this.Avoid Vortex a double-track is better.
    All I have is a big squishy bike...

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    Quote Originally Posted by schillingsworth View Post
    Big O: I'll add this, the Black Diamond ratings are really for the few sections on the trail that may warrant that designation. Most of the Black trails out there are more blue-black in nature, but that rating system doesn't exist. I'd hesitate to rate them blue, not so much for the gnar factor, just many tricky spots along the way. I think the black rating helps keep riders more aware than anything.

    I'd follow Sugar's recommendation, don't miss Jodie's Dream. Not sure what he's referring to as 'Black Diamond' trail, nothing out there goes by that name. There's a small loop off Phantom called 'Where ya Fromme', take that for sure. When you reach the Tech Loop, it's designed to be ridden in a CCW direction. On your return to the Cloudview TH, take Vortex - Gila Monster - 2GM connector. That's a fun way to get back. If you still have some riding left in ya, take Cougar up to Lost Goldmine and back to the trailhead.

    Diamondback & Mohave are purely XC type trails, you'll want the other stuff. Also, keep you eyes peeled on the fast sections of K-Trail after the swoopy wash crossings, there a few rock b-lines to roll over.
    I routed both Mohave and Diamondback so if you are a hardcore rider I would stay off those trails. Lost Gold Mine or Quartz Ridge would be more challenging getting out to the east end.

    Please don't try and FUN UP either Diamondback or Mohave. Both those trails are fun to ride by lesser skilled riders.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by big0mike View Post
    TH > Lost Goldmine > Hoo Doo > Lost Goldmine > K > Jodi's Dream > K > Phantom (and Where Ya Fromme?) > KiKi > Secret > GC DT > K > Tech Loop > K > Vortex > Gila Monster > 2GM > then either Cougar > Lost Goldmine or Gold Canyon back to lot..

    ..
    As slow as I am this may be pushing me past my heat index level... What's a normal person do this in? My time will be close to double that...


    All I have is a big squishy bike...
    Lets see Last December did the follow
    https://www.strava.com/activities/814243346

    LGM-> K> Jodi's dream -> K ->Phantom ->Secret -> Back to K and tech loop on K-> Vortex to Glia Monster.

    From there I went back up the mtn on GM to Diamond back and LGM. I was shooting for a full mapping of Gold Canyon. However the Vortex GM junction I was at 2hrs 10 min. From there you can take Gila Monster to 2GM to the end of cougar and back to parking. Or you can skip vortex and take the jeep road to Holy Hill and back or just take the Jeep road back. Not as much fun on the Jeep road, but if time is a concern it helps.


    Just remember the topography. LGM is at the TOP of area. Any trails going to LGM or in the northly direction will climb. Those going south or away from LGM go down. Most east west trails are level, but generally going west to east is a climb. Now to the south of the main easy/west jeep road and wash there is a smaller Mtn range. Phantom climbs this a bit Quartz climb to the top of this ridge. Overall there is not a lot of elevation gain here, but there is some. Quartz Ridge has the steepest and most sustained climb of the area.

    Now Diamondback and Mohave I think really good trails to climb back to LGM. I like them as a way to climb back up and minimize any downhill traffic. I see no reason to ride down these trails. K and Cougar are so much better, but for climbing back to LGM for a second "run down K" they are great.
    Joe
    '18 Specialized Epic 29", Vassago Verhauen SS 29", '13 Santa Cruz Solo 27.5", XC, AM, blah blah blah.. I just ride.

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    AND, do Quartz Ridge (QR) if you have time; nice rocky single trak with some nice tech features; and the views! GC needs more riders; lots for everyone....and you haven't noted Transition/TD/Don't Fence me In (DFMI) or Snowbird. make it a 2 day jaunt.
    Cheers. TS

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    Quote Originally Posted by Transition Senior View Post
    AND, do Quartz Ridge (QR) if you have time; nice rocky single trak with some nice tech features; and the views! GC needs more riders; lots for everyone....and you haven't noted Transition/TD/Don't Fence me In (DFMI) or Snowbird. make it a 2 day jaunt.
    Cheers. TS
    If you are going to Ride Quartz Ridge a number of the challenging uphill sections have been FUNNED UP for lessor skilled older riders. If you are a 5%'er climber please stay off the Funned Up sections. The continual use of those sections creates additional maintenance and for some reason very few hardcore riders care about maintaining user built Funned Up sections to their original design.

  48. #48
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    Gets my vote! ^^^^^^
    AKA: G-wat

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Switchblade2 View Post
    If you are going to Ride Quartz Ridge a number of the challenging uphill sections have been FUNNED UP for lessor skilled older riders. If you are a 5%'er climber please stay off the Funned Up sections. The continual use of those sections creates additional maintenance and for some reason very few hardcore riders care about maintaining user built Funned Up sections to their original design.
    I have no idea what "Funned Up" means. One man's fun is another mans pain....
    Joe
    '18 Specialized Epic 29", Vassago Verhauen SS 29", '13 Santa Cruz Solo 27.5", XC, AM, blah blah blah.. I just ride.

  50. #50
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    wow wow wow, what a sweet trail, brutal but like nothing I have ever rode.
    IMG_9535 by driverfound337, on Flickr
    IMG_9536 by driverfound337, on Flickr
    IMG_9537 by driverfound337, on Flickr
    IMG_9538 by driverfound337, on Flickr
    IMG_9539 by driverfound337, on Flickr
    IMG_9540 by driverfound337, on Flickr

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    It sure would be nice if someone stepped up with a complete video of the new trail, so
    We can get a better feel for how the trail rides. The pictures seem to show pretty rugged terrain. It certainly doesn't look like any trail I have ridden out there, it certainly has no K type finger print.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Switchblade2 View Post
    It sure would be nice if someone stepped up with a complete video of the new trail, so
    We can get a better feel for how the trail rides. The pictures seem to show pretty rugged terrain. It certainly doesn't look like any trail I have ridden out there, it certainly has no K type finger print.
    or, we could go oldschool make everyone crap their pants their very first time. It was almost as good as the deuce i dropped first time riding Hangover. I would not have ridden the exit boulder if i hadnt seen the vid, i feel like i cheated there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chollaball View Post
    or, we could go oldschool make everyone crap their pants their very first time. It was almost as good as the deuce i dropped first time riding Hangover. I would not have ridden the exit boulder if i hadnt seen the vid, i feel like i cheated there.
    cb that exit boulder is an awesome feature for sure and you benefited from the previous short video. Hopefully a complete video would help other first time riders the opportunity to ride the challenging sections without having to check their descent.

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    SB, I'm pretty sure that this trail wasn't designed or built for you. But it was built with highly skilled, aggressive riders in mind.
    If that IS you, maybe you could ask your wife for your balls back, and give it a go, before you do anymore whining.
    If not, the lower trails are still incredibly entertaining.
    All I know is I can't wait to get back and ride it again, now that it is finished! Even with my limited skill set.

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    New optional line down off Hoodoo is open. Through the gulley just before the Hoodoo line.
    Might be a little easier, might not be - depends on you.
    Big slabs, chunder and fun. Still needs a sign and some markings. Bring your cajones.
    Saw a big group up there this morning and they missed it, took the old line. We had a blast!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gotta keep movin View Post
    New optional line down off Hoodoo is open. Through the gulley just before the Hoodoo line.
    Might be a little easier, might not be - depends on you.
    Big slabs, chunder and fun. Still needs a sign and some markings. Bring your cajones.
    Saw a big group up there this morning and they missed it, took the old line. We had a blast!
    Hmmm that's cool. Went out there for the first time a couple weekends ago and got to play on a lot of trails and I had a good time! Nice to have another great trail system so close. Unfortunately I missed Hoo Doo. Which line do you recommend for the first time experience?
    Last edited by kmj831; 11-13-2017 at 08:38 AM.
    "Slow is smooth, and smooth is fast."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gotta keep movin View Post
    New optional line down off Hoodoo is open. Through the gulley just before the Hoodoo line.
    Might be a little easier, might not be - depends on you.
    Big slabs, chunder and fun. Still needs a sign and some markings. Bring your cajones.
    Saw a big group up there this morning and they missed it, took the old line. We had a blast!
    Gkm if you wait another two weeks maybe you can get TS to make you a new sign. How about providing a new video of the new line and the rest of the trail.

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    SB, this is another gem by Trail Designer. Marking and signs are in the works.

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    Kmj, i prefer the new line. Hoodoo has a move that i struggle with. But both lines are worlds apart from the desert trails below. I need/wear pads - but i am older and maybe wiser.😁

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    GKM;
    Do you know of other 'gems' by Trail Designer? Is this his/her first at GC? I am anxious to TRY ridin it!
    Cheers.
    TS

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    Start riding - you're on them. Need I say more?

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    My favorites are K, Jodi's, Phantom and Fromme. I think you know them all.

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    Ha;
    I didn't recognize Kevin's new handle.
    Well done!!!!

    PM me if you want any assistance.
    Cheers.
    TS

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    😀 I hear the new line is going to be called "cojones".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gotta keep movin View Post
    😀 I hear the new line is going to be called "cojones".
    Great names TS's son has BIG cojones, I am sure he will love HOOOO DOOOOO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gotta keep movin View Post
    Kmj, i prefer the new line. Hoodoo has a move that i struggle with. But both lines are worlds apart from the desert trails below. I need/wear pads - but i am older and maybe wiser.😁
    I turned 39 this October. Years of snowboarding, moto, martial arts and a lot of injuries (including a broken back in HS) and I am firmly in the ATGATT camp!
    "Slow is smooth, and smooth is fast."

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    Took me 65 to learn it. Finally added elbow pads a couple weeks ago after an OTB on Hangover.

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    K: THANKS!!!!
    A great addition to the GC Trails; can't wait to 'walk' it!
    Cheers
    TS

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    Is the new line to the right with the dots down the gulley or left?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Transition Senior View Post
    K: THANKS!!!!
    A great addition to the GC Trails; can't wait to 'walk' it!
    Cheers
    TS
    Wait 'till John gets his self appointed hands on it and you won't have to..... you'll be able to ride a mobility scooter on it.

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    Phillbo I have been invited by TS to come down to GC and make HOO DOO more rideable by the Ebike riders. TS just purchased a new 500 watt Ebike that he is bringing down from BC to ride all of Kevin's masterpieces. He wants me to bring those trails up to the TD standard, that we are use to riding. Hope to see you out there,

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    Yogi, the new line "Cojones"is to the right and down the gulley. Hope you enjoyed it!

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Switchblade2 View Post
    Phillbo I have been invited by TS to come down to GC and make HOO DOO more rideable by the Ebike riders. TS just purchased a new 500 watt Ebike that he is bringing down from BC to ride all of Kevin's masterpieces. He wants me to bring those trails up to the TD standard, that we are use to riding. Hope to see you out there,
    What;s scary is that there may be a slight bit of truth in your statement.

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    Phillbo what scary is that you are opposed to fun well built trails. Whenever Kevin builds a trail he creates an outside rockline to retain water during heavy rail periods. It's like having a street cutter on the side of the trail that retains water moving quickly downhill causing significant amounts of unnecessary erosion.

    I seriously don't understand that building technique and after a year of rain the outside edge is seriously rutted. Any knowledgeable landmanager would not be happy with the huge ruts that are created due to the cutter affect on the outside edges of his trails. The whole idea is to let water run off an outsloped trail unobstructed to reduce the amount of fast moving water.

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    Wow, I am not a local, and obviously unaccustomed to your local culture, just a visitor from BC, but we tend to highly respect - even revere - our trail faeries - not throw shade on them.
    What I see is waterbars and outslopes to control erosion in GC.
    The only outside rocklines I see are widely spaced rocks to delineate the trail to stop braiding. Sometimes sidehill is built up/reinforced to allow a trail bed, but typically designed to shed.
    Wash crossings are the real fun here, with steep entry/exits. These areas get significant maintenance every year after the monsoons - by the volunteer builder - to control and repair any erosion. They could be dumbed down, but the result would be a ruined flow/ no more fun.
    I think your comments are totally out of line, and an apology is certainly due.

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gotta keep movin View Post
    Wow, I am not a local, and obviously unaccustomed to your local culture, just a visitor from BC, but we tend to highly respect - even revere - our trail faeries - not throw shade on them.
    What I see is waterbars and outslopes to control erosion in GC.
    The only outside rocklines I see are widely spaced rocks to delineate the trail to stop braiding. Sometimes sidehill is built up/reinforced to allow a trail bed, but typically designed to shed.
    Wash crossings are the real fun here, with steep entry/exits. These areas get significant maintenance every year after the monsoons - by the volunteer builder - to control and repair any erosion. They could be dumbed down, but the result would be a ruined flow/ no more fun.
    I think your comments are totally out of line, and an apology is certainly due.
    Gkm I certainly didn't make up my observations of Jodie's trail. I have discussed K's trail building technique with TS for the last two years. K is an awesome trail router and is totally passionate about giving moutain bikers a great experience.

    He makes the trail 4' wide when it only needs to be 18". When I first discovered Jodie's while hunting out new trail concept I thought I had discovered a new ATV trail. I followed the partially completed alignment and could figure out if someone was making a Razor racetrack.

    One year later there was tons of rutting due to the 4" high rock berm on the outside edge. Yes it was great for navigating the route, but I had never seen anything like it in my previous years of building trails.

    I don't mean to be mean about wacky trail construction but TS was unwilling to tell K my observation because he respects K's work ethic and awesome route finding. I personally believe if someone is going to create a user built masterpiece, the trail should be built by the same techniques you discussed in your post.

    The GC soil has a very erosive characteristic. If you don't use good building techniques the trail will end up like Gila Monster or parts of Quartz Ridge.

    One day the landmanager is going to show up and will judge the trails to be either a good work product or a poor one. It would be nice if they deemed the trail inventory good.

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    I think you are exaggerating trail width, although some widening results from traffic wear - on the high speed trails not everyone maintains complete control at all times and the network is getting very popular.

    I do know there is a definite intention to adapt to the specific flora and fauna of the low desert to promote rider safety. The vegetation is somewhat sparse allowing for the appearance of a wide trail in places, and pruning is intended to maintain sightlines required in snake season. I have ridden Mojave trail (built by others) that uses a narrow sightline and had a very nasty surprise with a Diamondback hiding in the shade under a brittlebush mere inches from an 18" wide path. I prefer to see under the bushes. The locals ride these trails throughout snake season and their safety should be a prime concern.

    This is a different environment than Sedona - or Canada. The Canadian builders of the narrow trails in the east area build to a different standard, understandably because they are only winter visitors, riding here after the snakes are in hibernation.

    Also the Cholla grows fast and continually sheds grenades on the trail - my tires don't like that. Keeping the trail farther away from the cactus reduces the ongoing need for raking. And allows for higher speeds - who does't like some of that? Between tech features.

    Regarding the rock berm on Jodi's Dream, I don't recognize what you are talking about, I'll search for it tomorrow. Haven't noticed it this month, and Jodi's is running fabulous, except maybe the Blue Steps - which is intended as a technical right of passage, and follows an entirely natural feature. We all clean it routinely, and certainly hope it is not dumbed down.

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    Gkm are you saying that K didn't put a 4" high dirt and rock berm along the outside edge of Jodie's Dream? I get the paranoia about the snakes along the edge of the trail. When I built Mojave I ran into what I thought was a Mojave during the construction.

    When constructing Mojave, Diamonback, 2GM, TD and helping on others I personally don't build a trail like a Razor racetrack. I scratched the trail in and let the bikers do the rest. I don't disagree that making a trail four feet wide doesn't create a safety margin against snake attack.

    I also agree cite lines are important, and I also cut the cholla way back. In fact I have done a ton of trimming on the Horse trail. I hate that plant and trimmed a bunch on the TD and Diamondback trail.

    I appreciate all the work K has done in fact I rode with several riders from the Yukon, who rode their last week. I asked them what their favorite trails were and they said: "K, Jodie's Dream and the Tech trail.

    I just don't get why he puts in that outside berm. I think it is some kind of signature look. It certainly serves as no positive feature and makes the trail look like a junkyard. To be honest if I lived in the area I would go out and remove the berm and create more user friendly water diverters on the eroded sections. It would take a ton of work. but the trail would shed water a lot better with a lot less rutting.

    I also enjoy the Blue Step area and have no desire to make it more rideable for the 70%'ers who walk it.

    What time period was Jodie's Dream halfway completered? I took a bunch of pictures of the construction to show TS and Brian. They were going to put in a connector trail from Transition over to Jodie's from a higher starting point on Transition. K hadn't put in his lower connector at that point.

    If any of the TD haters want to widen the trails I built at GC to 4' feel free to do so. Just don't put the 4" gutter on the outside edge to increase erosion potential during heavy rain periods. Thx
    Last edited by Switchblade2; 11-19-2017 at 03:56 PM.

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    I don't think anybody wants/intends to alter any of TS's trails at GC. My original point is that we must respect the builder, and that includes leaving the style he chose/prefers.

    If you or TS want to improve or maintain your trails, we would welcome it. Rode them today, Dont Fence Me In surely needs at raking at the top - and water is just starting to trench, but wouldn't dream of touching it except by invitation.
    I have seen several unwelcome user built bypasses on the tech trails this year, and don't want to play that game.

    Interesting point on the land managers viewpoint. They apparently built/sponsored one trail in the network - the hikers Lost Goldmine Trail. Rideable, but what an eroded, non sustainable chunder fest out east. I think all the MTB trails will be very favourably viewed by comparison.

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    GKM; Consider yourself invited.
    SALT leased the LGM corridor and we have maintained it until this year; when we have left SALT and started our own build/maintain group. For more info;
    PM me. Cheers.
    TS

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    Just wanted to thank all the builders involved in the Gold Canyon system. It has come a long way over the years. Our riding group appreciates your efforts and no one ever gets enough credit. Cheers J

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gotta keep movin View Post
    I don't think anybody wants/intends to alter any of TS's trails at GC. My original point is that we must respect the builder, and that includes leaving the style he chose/prefers.

    If you or TS want to improve or maintain your trails, we would welcome it. Rode them today, Dont Fence Me In surely needs at raking at the top - and water is just starting to trench, but wouldn't dream of touching it except by invitation.
    I have seen several unwelcome user built bypasses on the tech trails this year, and don't want to play that game.

    Interesting point on the land managers viewpoint. They apparently built/sponsored one trail in the network - the hikers Lost Goldmine Trail. Rideable, but what an eroded, non sustainable chunder fest out east. I think all the MTB trails will be very favourably viewed by comparison.
    Can someone put a list together of all the mountain bike trails at GC and name the person(s) who built them, so we know who to contact to ask permission to do maintenance on them? For the trails I built or worked on no permission is needed to make an improvement someone feels is necessary (see below*).

    TD- Switchbalde2, TS & Brian
    Mohave- Switchblade2
    2GM- Switchbalde2, TS
    Diamondback- Switchblade2
    Don't Fence Me In- TS, Brian. Switchblade2
    Snowbird- TS, Jacque, Switchblade2
    Kiki- TS, Switchblade2
    Transition- TS, Brian
    Coyote- TS, Brian
    Jodie's Dream- K
    K- K
    Fromme- K
    Horse Trail- Wyatt Earp
    Gila Monster- Gila Monster
    Quartz Ridge-
    Phantom- K
    Tech Loop-
    Outer Limits- TS, Brian
    HOO DOO- Gotta keep movin,
    Holly Hill-
    Saguaro Squeeze- TS
    Secret-
    Lost Gold Mine- Forget Maintenance on This Trail

    Improvement list for any Switchblade2 trail:

    1. Remove vegetation to improve line of sight, reduce injury potential, improve rider experience, etc.
    2. Add out sloping wherever rutting is occurring or has the potential to occur during heavy rain periods.
    3. Remove trail hazards where serious injury is likely to occur.
    4. Add fun sustainable go-arounds (B lines) around sections of trail that are unrideable by a majority (51%) of riders.
    5. Add water diverters above areas prone to ongoing natural erosion during rainy periods.
    6. Improve technical features to eliminate surprises that could cause serious injury.
    7. Add features that will add to a more enjoyable user experience. (i.e. well constructed rock rolls and easily maintained table tops).
    8. Add signage to improve navigating the trail and adjacent trail system.
    9. Improve drainage crossings to improve flow through the drainage.
    10. Repair trail surface where natural or man-made erosion has occurred and is creating a poor user experience.
    11. Remove any man-made feature that is causing trail rutting.
    12. Improve climbing sections on trails such as Snowbird.
    13. Add go-arounds to mostly steep unrideable sections of trail like Quartz Ridge.
    14. Re-route sections of Switchblade2 trails that were routed improperly and will never be sustainable (i.e. trails like Holly Hill).
    Last edited by Switchblade2; 11-20-2017 at 08:10 AM.

  83. #83
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    Love what all the builders do out at GC. It really is amazing. I got to say that K has made some of the best trails in the entire valley. His use of natural terrain to make flow, fun and challenge is amazing. He really spends the time to lay it out right. I wish all the social trail builders would study what he does before laying down a trail.

    Good of TD to figure out who to ask before maintaining a trail out there. Completely agree you need to respect the original designer, especially when that designer was the catalyst of that area.

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Switchblade2 View Post
    Can someone put a list together of all the mountain bike trails at GC and name the person(s) who built them, so we know who to contact to ask permission to do maintenance on them? For the trails I built or worked on no permission is needed to make an improvement someone feels is necessary (see below*).

    TD- Switchbalde2, TS & Brian
    Mohave- Switchblade2
    2GM- Switchbalde2, TS
    Diamondback- Switchblade2
    Don't Fence Me In- TS, Brian. Switchblade2
    Snowbird- TS, Jacque, Switchblade2
    Kiki- TS, Switchblade2
    Transition- TS, Brian
    Coyote- TS, Brian
    Jodie's Dream- K
    K- K
    Fromme- K
    Horse Trail- Wyatt Earp
    Gila Monster- Gila Monster
    Quartz Ridge-
    Phantom- K
    Tech Loop-
    Outer Limits- TS, Brian
    HOO DOO- Gotta keep movin,
    Holly Hill-
    Saguaro Squeeze- TS
    Secret-
    Lost Gold Mine- Forget Maintenance on This Trail

    Improvement list for any Switchblade2 trail:

    1. Remove vegetation to improve line of sight, reduce injury potential, improve rider experience, etc.
    2. Add out sloping wherever rutting is occurring or has the potential to occur during heavy rain periods.
    3. Remove trail hazards where serious injury is likely to occur.
    4. Add fun sustainable go-arounds (B lines) around sections of trail that are unrideable by a majority (51%) of riders.
    5. Add water diverters above areas prone to ongoing natural erosion during rainy periods.
    6. Improve technical features to eliminate surprises that could cause serious injury.
    7. Add features that will add to a more enjoyable user experience. (i.e. well constructed rock rolls and easily maintained table tops).
    8. Add signage to improve navigating the trail and adjacent trail system.
    9. Improve drainage crossings to improve flow through the drainage.
    10. Repair trail surface where natural or man-made erosion has occurred and is creating a poor user experience.
    11. Remove any man-made feature that is causing trail rutting.
    12. Improve climbing sections on trails such as Snowbird.
    13. Add go-arounds to mostly steep unrideable sections of trail like Quartz Ridge.
    14. Re-route sections of Switchblade2 trails that were routed improperly and will never be sustainable (i.e. trails like Holly Hill).
    I don't want your facts, they get in the way of my TrailDoc rants and narrow worldview.

    Thanks John for all you've done out there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chollaball View Post
    I don't want your facts, they get in the way of my TrailDoc rants and narrow worldview.

    Thanks John for all you've done out there.
    chollaball thanks for the kind words. Gold Canyon is certainly a special place. I told a Canadian friend about the MTBR discussion today. He rides with TS at Gold Canyon, so he knows the trail system pretty good. He says his favorite trails are K's trails. He calls them the "Gold Standard".

    It will be interesting how the area moves forward over the coming years. TS thinks it will be bulldozed and turned into a housing development. That would be a shame, that's for sure.

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    SB2;
    Thanks for bringing that up.
    We're a long way off topic; but reaity is near; likely within a decade; the AZ State Land Trust will be faced with selling the land East of the Gold canyon development (unincorporated, and part of Pinal county); and Trust must sell to the highest bidder---the funds raised to go to public functions; ie roads, schools, firehalls etc etc.
    An organization named SALT (Superstition Area Land Trust) has leased the lost goldmine 60 ft strip along the Tonto Wilderness and built the LGM Trail; from
    Cloudview to Peralta. SALT wants to 'preserve' a large part of the land upon which we have built trails; multipurpose trails for all to use. SALT thinks it can both raise funds to buy some of the land; as well as negotiate with successful development bidders to retain some of the finer ravines and hills which make GC such a sweet place to ride. Their task is HUGE, and I am not optimistic given the current political climate, and land prices.

    But, heads up bikers, and all GC trail users, the time is coming when we'll have to face the music. What can one do? Bring yer friends out to ride,run, hike the GC trails, and stay tuned; as, per above, the day of reckoning cometh in GC; and if we lose those lovely trails, there will be nothing else to replace them. Sempre vigilante. There just may be an opportunity for public outcry to influence some of the decisions; lets hope!

    Just have a look at the Peralta subdivision 2 miles South of GC; and you'll see what development can do to destroy the Sinoran desert natural beauty.

    In the meantime; come and ride; and enjoy what a small group of volunteer guys n gals have done to build trails for all skill levels, in a beautiful setting; and so close to Phoenix. And bring yer clippers and do a wee bit of maintenance if you'd like. PM me if you'd like to help more.

    cheers.
    TS

  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Switchblade2 View Post
    chollaball thanks for the kind words. Gold Canyon is certainly a special place. I told a Canadian friend about the MTBR discussion today. He rides with TS at Gold Canyon, so he knows the trail system pretty good. He says his favorite trails are K's trails. He calls them the "Gold Standard".

    It will be interesting how the area moves forward over the coming years. TS thinks it will be bulldozed and turned into a housing development. That would be a shame, that's for sure.
    I agree w your friend.I enjoy the flowy XC stuff, but its all about stringing together the techy bits. Last ride we did a route of Hoodoo, K, Jodi's Dream, Phantom,Froome.

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    My friend that is coming with me to Arizona for the first month, his brother lives in Apache Junction by here. We will be checking these out for sure! My friend said the last time he was here a few years ago it was only a couple beginner trails.

    Transition Senior, what is the land use permit i need to park on that road east of Gold canyon and sleep in my van? Can a non resident get one?

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    Contact AZ state Land Trust;
    Get the $15? /yr permit that allows you to camp/use their lands statewide.
    there is nice camping there.
    Or PM me and stay in my yard. IF yer a dirtbag!
    TS

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    Quote Originally Posted by Transition Senior View Post
    Contact AZ state Land Trust;
    Get the $15? /yr permit that allows you to camp/use their lands statewide.
    there is nice camping there.
    Or PM me and stay in my yard. IF yer a dirtbag!
    TS
    Thank you sir! Definitely a dirtbag! Just sold my big house and yard for #vanlife. We will link up for sure. Leaving Detroit friday, hitting bentonville, then palo duro canyon, then sedona, then be in Apache by Usery. Love to meet up and get the local flavor. I will pm you my ph number. Thanks again!

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaneDetroitCity View Post
    Thank you sir! Definitely a dirtbag! Just sold my big house and yard for #vanlife. We will link up for sure. Leaving Detroit friday, hitting bentonville, then palo duro canyon, then sedona, then be in Apache by Usery. Love to meet up and get the local flavor. I will pm you my ph number. Thanks again!

    Sent from my SM-G360P using Tapatalk
    That's awesome. What kind of van? My wife and I are shopping for a smaller school bus right now to do a skoolie conversion, with the back end build out to haul mountain bikes and dirt bikes. The idea of loading my bikes, my kids and my wife and driving cross country hitting all the good riding is my idea of the perfect vacation. I've got HS and college buddies who ride in Socal, Southern Utah, New Mexico, Idaho, Montana... lot's of good options.

    Welcome to AZ riding in advance!
    "Slow is smooth, and smooth is fast."

    Real Estate Professionals llc.
    realestate-professionals.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by kmj831 View Post
    That's awesome. What kind of van? My wife and I are shopping for a smaller school bus right now to do a skoolie conversion, with the back end build out to haul mountain bikes and dirt bikes. The idea of loading my bikes, my kids and my wife and driving cross country hitting all the good riding is my idea of the perfect vacation. I've got HS and college buddies who ride in Socal, Southern Utah, New Mexico, Idaho, Montana... lot's of good options.

    Welcome to AZ riding in advance!
    I lived full time in a 28' motorhome for eight years. The school bus thing sounds great, but you will never make it as nice as an old motorhome that you can buy for around $20,000. There are tons of them out there.

  93. #93
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    SB2;
    Yuve dun it all; at yer tender age!
    Reminds me of an old fellow that was a builder in Whistler, and Ca., and Ut., and Az and......named 'Bounder John'! eh! Red carpets everywhere; except Sedona.
    Cheers
    D

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    Quote Originally Posted by Transition Senior View Post
    SB2;
    Yuve dun it all; at yer tender age!
    Reminds me of an old fellow that was a builder in Whistler, and Ca., and Ut., and Az and......named 'Bounder John'! eh! Red carpets everywhere; except Sedona.
    Cheers
    D
    TS we just finished the annual Paradise Thanksgiving ride and are back at Doug's drinking Porter's and Mirror Pond's. Dave told me you bought the Recon and are bringing down you quiver of Ebike's. Happy Thanksgiving. HOO DOO

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    I'd like to create some signage for the entrance to Hoo Doo off of LGM, is that cool with the builders?

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    Hey DT:
    While K has the ultimate word; I can advise that I have made an arrangement-verbal- with SALT and with Ken of Pinal county, that my signs eg TD, Transition, DFMI etc will be set back from lost goldmine at least 30 feet; so the hikers etc on LGM won't get confused.
    A rock carin at the entry is OK, but they will be pissed (and likely remove the sign) if they think it confuses folks.
    btw; the Cougar sign that I made last year was removed by unknowns, and it was offset on the new Cougar reroute by 30 ft. Want to make a new one for that location? Hope this helps.
    Cheers.
    TS
    ps I rode HooDoo last week; sweet n scary. I walked 3 areas; but will try to ride it all next time---got to do some work on ball size first!

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    Quote Originally Posted by dsrt taco View Post
    I'd like to create some signage for the entrance to Hoo Doo off of LGM, is that cool with the builders?
    I personally would not add a sign to a new trail. In my opinion it is completely up to the builder that put in the work. After more time goes by and the trail becomes very well known, I think that rule softens.

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by SugarHigh View Post
    I personally would not add a sign to a new trail. In my opinion it is completely up to the builder that put in the work. After more time goes by and the trail becomes very well known, I think that rule softens.
    That is why I am asking for permission before I do anything out there to support the builders' efforts

  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsrt taco View Post
    That is why I am asking for permission before I do anything out there to support the builders' efforts
    Youre a good person

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    My understanding is the reason it was not initially signed was to avoid attracting riders who are not prepared for the advanced difficulty and hazards on the trail.
    In discussion with Trail Designer, he agreed that adding a sign that meets the 30 foot rule would help ensure that riders would have prior knowledge about the trail and be seeking it, and that level of challenge. Be sure it includes the black diamonds. Put it up by the fence line at the entry of the wash.

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