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  1. #1
    The Most Interesting Man
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    Caution;  Merge;  Workers Ahead! New Project: Need Builders

    Me, Matt (mattyboy) and are starting to build new jumps, at a new location in east mesa. We are determined to make this into a large project with many features including many jumps, drops, step ups, and a possible pumptrack. Pumptrack will come after seeing how many workers we have and how it goes. This is not a small project, but something that will have people talking.

    This location is prestine because of natural features, lots of dirt around, and close water access to fill galllons. (Sorry no hose).

    Now we need at least for now 8-10 COMMITED builders that are willing to volunteer hours of work to make this place sick. It would be great to get as many workers as possible, but for now 8-10 is realistic. We have decided to not give out the location for now.

    There will be scheduled work days where if possible everyone can come out and work together, but if you want, you can go and put in hours whenever. If you are interested in this and want to join this team to build a sick place to ride INSTANT MESSAGE me and I will give you location and more details.

    Thank you
    Tanner
    Last edited by tannerdrummer; 07-21-2010 at 09:42 AM.
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  2. #2
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    Just wondering if this will be on private land and if you have permission to do this? Nothing like putting all that hard work in to have it ripped down.

  3. #3
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    This was a topic I thought would come up. Things have been build on this piece of land before and nothing has been torn down, just not maintained.
    Last edited by tannerdrummer; 07-19-2010 at 02:09 PM.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZnewbie
    Just wondering if this will be on private land and if you have permission to do this? Nothing like putting all that hard work in to have it ripped down.

    The only thing asking permission for gets you is a NO.....or a pumptrack

    go out and build like crazy and build stuff propper and build any place you can. Force the issue so they simply give up tearing stuff down and see the need that is truly out there!!!

  5. #5
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    Jrock so true asking for forgiveness is usualy easier than permission
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  6. #6
    The Most Interesting Man
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    If people are worried about things getting torn down, yes it is possible, but its in the desert not visible from roads and people have built out there alot before, just things werent maintained because it was built by kids, and you know how bmx kids lose interest
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  7. #7
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    I think this thread was made a little prematurely...
    Asking for permission after it is built (or during) is not very smart...
    I don't really want a fine for building unauthorized structures on city land.
    That park has a lot of park rangers roaming around, and there are signs posted saying that no motor vehicles are to be driven back there... So "getting away with it" will be hard to do.

    Why don't you get a list of the workers together that would like to help build, along with a petition of the mountain bike community (will need to have the yes/no vote and contact infomation). Even a community survey at the local hot spots (like grocery stores) around there asking people if they would like to see that place used for family recreation. Should be easy since its basically a concrete scrap dump right now.

    Please take my screen name off of this until the approval process is completed.
    Thanks.

  8. #8
    The Most Interesting Man
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    Ill tell you what, mountain bikers really have troubles with legal stuff. I remember when I was slightly younger some of my friends would go build where ever the hell we wanted and didnt get any crap for it.
    Kubo I can slightly understand concerns about fines IF you were building wood structures out there. But what are they going to fine you for or need approval for when you are building with dirt in the middle of the desert that says nothing about no trespassing. Its completely open to go back there, plus there are already jumps built back there, just not maintained. I can understand fines if you were hopping a fence saying no trespassing near construction and building, but this...no. And you saying something about no motor vehicles, I dont think anyone was planning on driving back there. And bikes, no motors.
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  9. #9
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    when you're a little older you will begin to understand how politics work; you'll then begin to understand the magnitude of building a park and all the legal mumbojumbo that goes along with it... and there are signs that say no trespassing, no dumping, etc....just not in plain view... and that's how they can get ya for violations... i'm not saying don't do it, cuz i'll still ride it... you just gotta take things into consideration before breaking any ground... good luck with the build... as for the rest of this summer, the only trail work i'll be doing is up north
    i like these odds....

  10. #10
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    Times have changed since we were boys….

    I remember when I was a kid, my dad was the boys PE teacher in the Jr. High school I attended. He used to get away with murder by flipping us on the a$$ with his whistle or a towel as we walked from the showers to our locker, and once he mocked our jr high wieners. He used to discipline me right in front of all the other boys, one time smacking me upside the head when I "walked the mile" with a few friends instead of "jogging" it.

    Well, today he is 70 something years old and he can't run very fast. I'm thinking it's time for ME to bring out the whistle strap… I kinda forgot where I was going with this whole post because I just remembered the wiener thing….
    "I've got nothing to hoard...."

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver_Slug
    Times have changed since we were boys….

    I remember when I was a kid, my dad was the boys PE teacher in the Jr. High school I attended. He used to get away with murder by flipping us on the a$$ with his whistle or a towel as we walked from the showers to our locker, and once he mocked our jr high wieners. He used to discipline me right in front of all the other boys, one time smacking me upside the head when I "walked the mile" with a few friends instead of "jogging" it.

    Well, today he is 70 something years old and he can't run very fast. I'm thinking it's time for ME to bring out the whistle strap… I kinda forgot where I was going with this whole post because I just remembered the wiener thing….
    CONGRATULATIONS! We have a wierd post of the day winner (or wiener i suppose)!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver_Slug
    Times have changed since we were boys….

    I remember when I was a kid, my dad was the boys PE teacher in the Jr. High school I attended. He used to get away with murder by flipping us on the a$$ with his whistle or a towel as we walked from the showers to our locker, and once he mocked our jr high wieners. He used to discipline me right in front of all the other boys, one time smacking me upside the head when I "walked the mile" with a few friends instead of "jogging" it.

    Well, today he is 70 something years old and he can't run very fast. I'm thinking it's time for ME to bring out the whistle strap… I kinda forgot where I was going with this whole post because I just remembered the wiener thing….
    .....creepy

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver_Slug
    He used to get away with murder by flipping us on the a$$ with his whistle or a towel as we walked from the showers to our locker, and once he mocked our jr high wieners. ….

    This was truly uncomfortable to read!!!!

    But I can see Kavurider doing this in his near future.
    .Hoog just texted me and said it's "Surface area to G2 tangential force vector ratio optimization. "

  14. #14
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    AZ and NM have a buttload of public land (in the desert) that you can build these jumps on. why build it on somebody else's private land?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by tannerdrummer
    Ill tell you what, mountain bikers really have troubles with legal stuff. I remember when I was slightly younger some of my friends would go build where ever the hell we wanted and didnt get any crap for it.
    Kubo I can slightly understand concerns about fines IF you were building wood structures out there. But what are they going to fine you for or need approval for when you are building with dirt in the middle of the desert that says nothing about no trespassing. Its completely open to go back there, plus there are already jumps built back there, just not maintained. I can understand fines if you were hopping a fence saying no trespassing near construction and building, but this...no. And you saying something about no motor vehicles, I dont think anyone was planning on driving back there. And bikes, no motors.
    All I have to say is do some research and find out what is illegal and what isn’t before making assumptions on what you THINK you will be fined for. I know for a fact it is illegal to modify anything on a piece of land that’s not owned by you.
    Same as with NRA... all of that was illegal. That’s why people sneaked shovels and wheel barrels in to work on it.
    Not too much sneaking stuff in and out of that place you are talking about... its in plain view of everything.

    If I were to help build, I want to do it right. Bring in real equipment and spend time on it as opposed to half-ass crap. Everyone that says its hard to get an approval as went as far as asking a couple people and getting a no.

    If you have the time, get some things together and get more people saying "yes we want it" and bring that list to them. Because that is what they want to see.... not for us to go behind their backs and build stuff on their land then ask for forgiveness then a "oh-by-the-way, can we keep it?"

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexrex20
    AZ and NM have a buttload of public land (in the desert) that you can build these jumps on. why build it on somebody else's private land?
    Because the approval process is near impossible on public land.

  17. #17
    Meatbomb
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    who owns the land you are building on ?

  18. #18
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    Tanner, I appreciate your excitement about this just build idea as I am in the process of putting some business plans together for a legit park.

    Quick story, which makes me feel like an old man. I built some really cool set of jumps back home in Jersey as a teen. I made sure no one left trash or tools, and no one could see it. Well one summer day with about 20 of us there 5 cop cars show up and the land owner wants us all prosecuted. We were just asked to leave in the end, but it was scary as hell, and if the situtation was a little different 20 good kids all have records.

    If you want to do this you need to find a private land owner who is cool with you doing this somehow or get the city to allow a park to be built by a legitimate company like in other cities.

    Everyone here would love to help build and ride a cool park, but not at the expense of fines or police issues.

  19. #19
    The Most Interesting Man
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    Getting approval takes to much time. Period.
    Last edited by tannerdrummer; 07-20-2010 at 09:03 PM.
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  20. #20
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    Those that know me believe about 1/2 the things I write. I would say that percentage holds up pretty well with my ramblings above…. Sincere apologies if the "walking the mile" story creeped you out….

    -SS
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by tannerdrummer
    Me, Matt (mattyboy) and are starting to build new jumps, at a new location in east mesa.
    It's Matt (mattyboy) and I are starting to build new jumps, at a new location in east mesa.

    Just because your on summer break doesn't mean you can forget your grammer lessons.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajmelin
    Just because your on summer break doesn't mean you can forget your grammer lessons.
    I think you mean "you're."
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by skinny-tire
    I think you mean "you're."

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by skinny-tire
    I think you mean "you're."
    haha, fail.

    To the OP:
    Don't ever, ever, ever post info about digging jumps online. And don't tell all your friends.
    Just build it, ride it, keep it quiet.

    Good luck on getting "permission"...
    Quote Originally Posted by azdog View Post
    I think he was born around the time of the Chernobyl fallout which would explain a lot.

  25. #25
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    ... and if we just ...

    Quote Originally Posted by skinny-tire
    I think you mean "you're."
    A reply came quicker than I thought, but I'm not sure if YOU'RE goofing or if you forget YOUR grammer lessons.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by KavuRider
    To the OP:
    Don't ever, ever, ever post info about digging jumps online. And don't tell all your friends.
    Just build it, ride it, keep it quiet.

    Good luck on getting "permission"...
    Exactly!!!!!!!
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by kubo
    All I have to say is do some research and find out what is illegal and what isn’t before making assumptions on what you THINK you will be fined for. I know for a fact it is illegal to modify anything on a piece of land that’s not owned by you.
    Same as with NRA... all of that was illegal. That’s why people sneaked shovels and wheel barrels in to work on it.
    Not too much sneaking stuff in and out of that place you are talking about... its in plain view of everything.

    If I were to help build, I want to do it right. Bring in real equipment and spend time on it as opposed to half-ass crap. Everyone that says its hard to get an approval as went as far as asking a couple people and getting a no.

    If you have the time, get some things together and get more people saying "yes we want it" and bring that list to them. Because that is what they want to see.... not for us to go behind their backs and build stuff on their land then ask for forgiveness then a "oh-by-the-way, can we keep it?"
    what is your realistic plan to get things aproved in a timley manner? Who is this they you keep speaking off? It takes years just to get a log ride approved.

    Waiting around twitiling your thumbs waiting for a yes will get you no where. People have been saying there is a need for quite sometime now. Stop listening to the forest circus and show them what the need is and force the issue or you won't get permission to do anything except free tree removal cause the forest circus can't even get it together to do that in a timley fashion

  28. #28
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    Ahhhh now I see it, and it's GRAMMAR.

  29. #29
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    Don't pull a Hemmorhoid.

    Be very careful of how you go about it, because you can affect the rest of the MTB’ing community in a bad way, particularly the black diamond folks (DH/FR/DJ).

    In Tucson we lost a spectacularly built DH trail that was beginning to get recognition. We lost it because it was illegally built on USFS land in a biologically sensitive area. What killed it aside from its legal status, was the internet. Seems some greenies found some video on the internet and pursued legal action, resulting in FINES levied against several people, none were the builders, but they did get busted for maintaining it.

    As a result of this negative publicity, we black diamond types in Tucson are now labled as a rogue group that operates outside the law and that does not care about any other user groups. Basically the land managers have us in their sights as an irresponsible user group and they are beating us to death with it as we try and lobby for some legitimate black diamond riding venues.

    What to do? Do your best to operate legitimately and develop a positive relationship with the land managers. Put some weight behind your effort by getting the community and other groups to support the project. There is a definite need for places like you want to build and operate, but you need to be able to make that a presentable case to the land managers.

    Today’s kids need a meaningful and safe place to ride. That place needs to have the head room to support today’s cutting edge skill levels as well as provide a place to progressively practice and develop skills in a safe and controlled manner.

    All of this will take some patience and politicking.

  30. #30
    Meatbomb
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    And a large insurance policy.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver_Slug
    Those that know me believe about 1/2 the things I write. I would say that percentage holds up pretty well with my ramblings above…. Sincere apologies if the "walking the mile" story creeped you out….

    -SS
    I don't think it was "walking the mile" that creeped people out but the Jr. High wieners that was creepy....

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by SunDog
    Today’s kids need a meaningful and safe place to ride. That place needs to have the head room to support today’s cutting edge skill levels as well as provide a place to progressively practice and develop skills in a safe and controlled manner.

    All of this will take some patience and politicking.
    True dat.

  33. #33
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    Well that all sounds great in theroy, but all that does is keep the never ending circle of nothing ever happening going. How far have you guys got working with the powers that be on actually getting some quality features aprroved?

    You have 2 options, get permision on some private property or build illegally.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by SunDog
    Be very careful of how you go about it, because you can affect the rest of the MTB’ing community in a bad way, particularly the black diamond folks (DH/FR/DJ).

    In Tucson we lost a spectacularly built DH trail that was beginning to get recognition. We lost it because it was illegally built on USFS land in a biologically sensitive area. What killed it aside from its legal status, was the internet. Seems some greenies found some video on the internet and pursued legal action, resulting in FINES levied against several people, none were the builders, but they did get busted for maintaining it.

    As a result of this negative publicity, we black diamond types in Tucson are now labled as a rogue group that operates outside the law and that does not care about any other user groups. Basically the land managers have us in their sights as an irresponsible user group and they are beating us to death with it as we try and lobby for some legitimate black diamond riding venues.

    What to do? Do your best to operate legitimately and develop a positive relationship with the land managers. Put some weight behind your effort by getting the community and other groups to support the project. There is a definite need for places like you want to build and operate, but you need to be able to make that a presentable case to the land managers.

    Today’s kids need a meaningful and safe place to ride. That place needs to have the head room to support today’s cutting edge skill levels as well as provide a place to progressively practice and develop skills in a safe and controlled manner.

    All of this will take some patience and politicking.
    This is why we no longer build or lift shovels at nra. We knew it was illegal when we started. But at the time the DH/FR community was very small compared to now. So there was nothing of the sort anywhere besides a few jumps at the paps/ikea/playground. Since then the dh/fr scene has exploded with many crossing over from xc/am riding. Anyways we no longer feel the need to continue to jepordize the mtb communities rep and have stoped all illegal trail building in the state.It has been this way since the mesa ranger district went on the war path earlier this year.

    I would say before building somewhere new people should focus on either trying again to get NRA legit ( years of work) or focus the effort on a legit spot.

    Our work now only goes towards legit trails that need love ( yes freight train is legit)
    Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of
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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by JrockFeltaz
    Well that all sounds great in theroy, but all that does is keep the never ending circle of nothing ever happening going. How far have you guys got working with the powers that be on actually getting some quality features aprroved?

    You have 2 options, get permision on some private property or build illegally.
    Sad but true...
    But we should continue to press the "right thing" as opposed to preaching to people to break the law and keep making a bad name for the DH/FR/DJ crowd

  36. #36
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    Correct. We as a group have already established there is a need for this type of thing . Now there really needs to be a strong group of commited folks to push the issue. There are plenty of examples in many other states. Idea would be to model after something that has worked like Black rock orgeon and other places. Dirtcorps did lots of good work to help their dj/dh/fr community also.
    Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of
    arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body.

  37. #37
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    This place doesn't look to bad for starters. Not to far, lots of room to build. Maybe the question should be how much are you willing to pay to ride, they'll even have an EMT on site. Just throwing it out there.

    Paul
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails New Project: Need Builders-park.jpg  


  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulM
    This place doesn't look to bad for starters. Not to far, lots of room to build. Maybe the question should be how much are you willing to pay to ride, they'll even have an EMT on site. Just throwing it out there.

    Paul
    Guys, what part of "probably not a good idea to discuss building a bike park on a public forum" are you not getting?
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  39. #39
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    This is private land and it's already there to ride now, it's just not free, discuss all you want.

  40. #40
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    This thread sucks.

  41. #41
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    That looks like a pic of grindingstone mx park's dirt jumps
    Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of
    arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by skinny-tire
    Guys, what part of "probably not a good idea to discuss building a bike park on a public forum" are you not getting?
    I think its a great idea to talk about making a bike park the right way.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by kubo
    Sad but true...
    But we should continue to press the "right thing" as opposed to preaching to people

    to break the law and keep making a bad name for the DH/FR/DJ crowd

    Good luck with that.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver_Slug
    Times have changed since we were boys….

    I remember when I was a kid, my dad was the boys PE teacher in the Jr. High school I attended. He used to get away with murder by flipping us on the a$$ with his whistle or a towel as we walked from the showers to our locker, and once he mocked our jr high wieners. He used to discipline me right in front of all the other boys, one time smacking me upside the head when I "walked the mile" with a few friends instead of "jogging" it.

    Well, today he is 70 something years old and he can't run very fast. I'm thinking it's time for ME to bring out the whistle strap… I kinda forgot where I was going with this whole post because I just remembered the wiener thing….
    Oh my god,thats one of the best posts ever!
    -Just as I was reading,"Well, today he is 70....."I was thinking "What he EF does this have to do with dirt jumps?---Just want you to know,great comedy is under acknowledged on here.
    codafurnituredesign.com

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by clockwork
    This is why we no longer build or lift shovels at nra. We knew it was illegal when we started. But at the time the DH/FR community was very small compared to now. So there was nothing of the sort anywhere besides a few jumps at the paps/ikea/playground. Since then the dh/fr scene has exploded with many crossing over from xc/am riding. Anyways we no longer feel the need to continue to jepordize the mtb communities rep and have stoped all illegal trail building in the state.It has been this way since the mesa ranger district went on the war path earlier this year.

    I would say before building somewhere new people should focus on either trying again to get NRA legit ( years of work) or focus the effort on a legit spot.

    Our work now only goes towards legit trails that need love ( yes freight train is legit)
    you are not the only group of riders building trails in teh state.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver_Slug
    Sincere apologies if the "walking the mile" story creeped you out….

    -SS
    Nooooo, that story made me laugh out loud. I know that sometimes these armor wearing, bad a$$, gotta get air, it's only blood, I'll poach land when I want to, mountain bikers on this board can be a little sensitive to sarcasm.

    Awhatukee could use some jumps too, you know.

  47. #47
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    Tanner, Matty et al ... there is a natural jump pit close to you, I've posted about it before on here and my blog. no building, and some nice stuff. you could easily form a little more out there and no one would notice since it would blend in. a good fix for so close and legit. I believe its City of Mesa land that has been "planned" for a park for about 10 yrs. lots of other people walk dogs, paintball etc so the bikes are hardly the only ones using it.

  48. #48
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    "You Tell 'Em, Buford Pusser..."

    Quote Originally Posted by Silver_Slug
    Those that know me believe about 1/2 the things I write. I would say that percentage holds up pretty well with my ramblings above…. Sincere apologies if the "walking the mile" story creeped you out….

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    Quote Originally Posted by JrockFeltaz
    what is your realistic plan to get things aproved in a timley manner? Who is this they you keep speaking off? It takes years just to get a log ride approved.

    Waiting around twitiling your thumbs waiting for a yes will get you no where. People have been saying there is a need for quite sometime now. Stop listening to the forest circus and show them what the need is and force the issue or you won't get permission to do anything except free tree removal cause the forest circus can't even get it together to do that in a timley fashion
    A realistic plan is like what I said previously... however I'm sure there are plenty of other ways.
    Seriously though, we can battle the land owners whether its the city or USFS... and I'm sure you can get away with destroying their property. But if you actually talk to them, you will find out that they are really wanting to work with us, since that is why they are here. They want to support what the community wants, but they need a group or community to know what is wanted. They get really irritated when we just go and do stuff without telling them As far as they know, its just a couple punk kids just doing it without any care for anyone else.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by kubo
    A realistic plan is like what I said previously... however I'm sure there are plenty of other ways.
    Seriously though, we can battle the land owners whether its the city or USFS... and I'm sure you can get away with destroying their property. But if you actually talk to them, you will find out that they are really wanting to work with us, since that is why they are here. They want to support what the community wants, but they need a group or community to know what is wanted. They get really irritated when we just go and do stuff without telling them As far as they know, its just a couple punk kids just doing it without any care for anyone else.

    LoL, you can tell you're new to this sport. Glad you're not jaded yet, but good luck keeping it that way.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by JrockFeltaz
    Well that all sounds great in theroy, but all that does is keep the never ending circle of nothing ever happening going. How far have you guys got working with the powers that be on actually getting some quality features aprroved?

    You have 2 options, get permision on some private property or build illegally.
    Sez who? Have you even tried?

    You have to start someplace and establish some real credibilty to get things done right. The MTB BD community can fly under the radar only so long, especially in PHX where that segement of riders has EXPLODED in the last few years.

    We are working hard with the USFS and other land managers down here in Tucson, sadly they often uninformed with out dated perspectives. So what have our patient and upright efforts to stay legit gotten?

    1. A 100 acre site dedicated for a MTB/BMX skills park on public land.
    2. Potential for a DH trail and Freeride skills area on USFS land.
    3. Awareness within the land managing agencies in understanding where MTB'ing is these days.
    4. A nacent BMX/MTB coalition to further our mutual cause.
    5. More and more public and governmental awareness of where MTB'ing is and what we really want.

    Going legit gives you an audible voice, bootlegging justs lets you look helplessly through the window from the outside.

    Just saying.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by sixsixtysix
    LoL, you can tell you're new to this sport. Glad you're not jaded yet, but good luck keeping it that way.
    Har har
    I guess the other option would be to keep doing things the other way...
    Since it has worked so great thus far.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by kubo
    They get really irritated when we just go and do stuff without telling them As far as they know, its just a couple punk kids just doing it without any care for anyone else.

    Isn't that what we just about had

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    Sundog: You shouldn't bother engaging that knucklehead in any sort of legitimate debate. It's a losing battle for everyone.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by kubo
    Har har
    I guess the other option would be to keep doing things the other way...
    Since it has worked so great thus far.
    Things work just fine. You like Candy Mtn don't you? Good trail builders don't look for credit or praise from the internet homers. Once their trails get discovered and become "main stream" they are usually abandoned by the people who actually built them. (You think any of the original 6-8 builders of Candy do any digging out there anymore?)

    You have much to learn. You can start by joining the IMBA, cause if you're not a member there, you have 0 chance of getting anything done with the powers that be. (Not to mention if you get arrested, they will actually help with some legal services) While you're at it you might as well join the MBAA since you'll be digging on AZ state land most likely.

    Then, you might want to do some good reading as to how the government handles illegal trail building. Since if you get caught, you will be facing some pretty hefty fines/bans/jail time. (Part of the reason illegal trails are abandoned by their builders once they are discovered by the masses)

    http://www.allbusiness.com/environme...2702062-1.html

    (Dont think you won't get caught, especially if you're already blabbing all over MTBR before you even get started)

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by sixsixtysix
    Things work just fine. You like Candy Mtn don't you? Good trail builders don't look for credit or praise from the internet homers. Once their trails get discovered and become "main stream" they are usually abandoned by the people who actually built them. (You think any of the original 6-8 builders of Candy do any digging out there anymore?)

    You have much to learn. You can start by joining the IMBA, cause if you're not a member there, you have 0 chance of getting anything done with the powers that be. (Not to mention if you get arrested, they will actually help with some legal services) While you're at it you might as well join the MBAA since you'll be digging on AZ state land most likely.

    Then, you might want to do some good reading as to how the government handles illegal trail building. Since if you get caught, you will be facing some pretty hefty fines/bans/jail time. (Part of the reason illegal trails are abandoned by their builders once they are discovered by the masses)

    http://www.allbusiness.com/environme...2702062-1.html

    (Dont think you won't get caught, especially if you're already blabbing all over MTBR before you even get started)

    Sure I love Candy.
    But I have also talked with the Forest Ranger out there scoping it out when we were riding it. He gave us some pretty darn good pointers to make that place legit... which is what I am trying to do by spreading the word.
    I have also taked with just about every other Forest Ranger up in that district and they are all for it. But they need things from us.
    One thing they are not happy with at that place is the errosion at the top, which is slowly being fixed.

  57. #57
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    I had no idea this thread would go this far off. I thought there would be plenty of volunteers fast and it would take off...but nevermind.
    Last edited by tannerdrummer; 07-20-2010 at 08:33 PM.
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  58. #58
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    If you are so tired of everything being illegal, why do you start a post about building on other peoples property ... which makes it illegal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tannerdrummer
    I had no idea this thread would go this far off. I thought there would be plenty of volunteers fast and it would take off...but nevermind. Since everyone here is so concerned about the legal thing heres my vote...
    Why doesnt everyone here say somewhere in the east valley that they think would be a great place for a legit, legal dirt bike park, and then everyone can agree on one place that is best fit, then everyone try hard to make it legal. That would be the best approach to this. Because personally Im flippin tired of everything being illegal and every single damn jump being torn down by kids or the city.

    Don't let the peanut gallery get you down. Go out and have fun, in the end it's all that really matters. Don't take no for an answer and if it gets torn down build it again.

  60. #60
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    who cares if it's illegal and building a bad rep for the rest of the biking community. build it little drummer boy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillbo
    who cares if it's illegal and building a bad rep for the rest of the biking community. build it little drummer boy

    who's the child...?

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillbo
    If you are so tired of everything being illegal, why do you start a post about building on other peoples property ... which makes it illegal.
    Why the hell would I think its illegal? Ive rode out there before, there aint no gates to hop over, and there is already stuff built out there. Im not saying im building yet because Im not building by my damn self, its not realistic and wont go anywhere, and if someone wants to say something about if you really wanted it youd do it by yourself, say it, go ahead. But if the city of mesa, or any city for that matter has nothing better to do than to fine you for moving damn dirt on a lot that is used for nothing else besides sitting there, then awesome.
    I Like Dirt.

  63. #63
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    If they have the ability to fine you then it must be illegal to ride/build there.

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    But the thing is, who would know if they do have the ability to fine you for whatever property you want to build on unless you called the city of mesa, gilbert, chandler...etc to find out. And then by the time you did that theyd have a clue and the deal would be done. Trust me, Im not saying its right to build illegally, but its almost like that is the only way you can do it, unless you go to city meetings, be on a committee, etc...

    And for me being still youngish, I have noticed greatly there are no places to jump anymore in east mesa, unless it is someones own property that you cant get into 24/7 except nra which is still illegal and is not the kind of DJ most kids want to ride. Everything else has been destroyed by punk kids, grouchy adults, or just not maintained.
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  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by tannerdrummer
    Why the hell would I think its illegal?
    Because it's not yours and you haven't asked permission to modify it. You're young and you write really well (especially for teh internets), so you're obviously intelligent. Every bit of land is "owned" by "someone". It is "they" who tend to take offense to folks doing things with "their" land without said folks asking first. Pragmatically, it would seem perfectly acceptable to modify land that isn't obviously being used for anything, however few people are pragmatists when it comes to "their" land.

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by tannerdrummer
    But if the city of mesa, or any city for that matter has nothing better to do than to fine you for moving damn dirt on a lot that is used for nothing else besides sitting there, then awesome.
    What about protecting themselves from lawsuits from cyclists who injury themselves on city-owned land?
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by kubo
    Sure I love Candy.
    But I have also talked with the Forest Ranger out there scoping it out when we were riding it. He gave us some pretty darn good pointers to make that place legit... which is what I am trying to do by spreading the word.
    I have also taked with just about every other Forest Ranger up in that district and they are all for it. But they need things from us.
    One thing they are not happy with at that place is the errosion at the top, which is slowly being fixed.
    You spoke to rangers, not land managers...

    But what do I know...

  68. #68
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    some day he will buy a house and when he does he will not like it if the neighbor kids come dig up his front yard in the middle of the night. Then he will understand.

  69. #69
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    tanner...maybe it's time to take actions into your own hands. Create a plan, form a group, get members to sign up, start a petition, gather information about other cities and parks, contact the right people to make it happen, stay diligent and patient and get it done... Heck it took Alan two years to get the pump track out at MMP. Start today and maybe by 2012 we'll have some sweet legal jumps...and then the world will tilt on it's axis and then all hell will break loose, but at least we can jump! (sorry that was a late night ramble) But seriously, if you have the drive, desire, plan and goals to get his done...it can and will happen.

    YOU CAN DO IT!!!!

  70. #70
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    Heres my problem with all this, I know at least 4 spots in east mesa that have been built over the years and there was no problems, kids just lost interest and stopped maintaining. In two years latedrop ill be graduating and off to college, and the fact is it shouldnt be even close to this hard to move something as simple as dirt around a big, empty, field, and have it be "legal". If it was easy as calling the city of mesa, telling them about it and pitch the idea, have a parks/recreation representative come out to the spot with you to make sure its ok, then I would do it no problem and get it legal real quick, get volunteers and make the place incredible.

    But I will not go through two years of crap, to only get denied.
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  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by tannerdrummer
    Heres my problem with all this, I know at least 4 spots in east mesa that have been built over the years and there was no problems, kids just lost interest and stopped maintaining. In two years latedrop ill be graduating and off to college, and the fact is it shouldnt be even close to this hard to move something as simple as dirt around a big, empty, field, and have it be "legal". If it was easy as calling the city of mesa, telling them about it and pitch the idea, have a parks/recreation representative come out to the spot with you to make sure its ok, then I would do it no problem and get it legal real quick, get volunteers and make the place incredible.

    But I will not go through two years of crap, to only get denied.
    Have you even bothered to call the city?
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by tannerdrummer

    But I will not go through two years of crap, to only get denied.
    Welcome to life. Get used to it.

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by tannerdrummer
    Heres my problem with all this, I know at least 4 spots in east mesa that have been built over the years and there was no problems, kids just lost interest and stopped maintaining. In two years latedrop ill be graduating and off to college, and the fact is it shouldnt be even close to this hard to move something as simple as dirt around a big, empty, field, and have it be "legal". If it was easy as calling the city of mesa, telling them about it and pitch the idea, have a parks/recreation representative come out to the spot with you to make sure its ok, then I would do it no problem and get it legal real quick, get volunteers and make the place incredible.

    But I will not go through two years of crap, to only get denied.
    I love how everyone on here discourages you when they haven't even tried. And by trying I mean going through the proper process, not just asking 1 person.
    Yet they say we are discouraging you when we say to do it the right way...

    What has been tried has been successful (i.e. MMP pump track), as for the other stuff that has FAILED were places that was built without asking... or at least makes it extremely hard to get something legit afterwards. NOBODY has gone through getting all that stuff that latedropbob said to only to get a NO.
    And if you were commited and had the time (which I know you do) you could have it done in much less than 2 years.

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by kubo
    I love how everyone on here discourages you when they haven't even tried. And by trying I mean going through the proper process, not just asking 1 person.
    Yet they say we are discouraging you when we say to do it the right way...

    What has been tried has been successful (i.e. MMP pump track), as for the other stuff that has FAILED were places that was built without asking... or at least makes it extremely hard to get something legit afterwards. NOBODY has gone through getting all that stuff that latedropbob said to only to get a NO.
    And if you were commited and had the time (which I know you do) you could have it done in much less than 2 years.
    Oh you think I have a bunch of time? Yeah I do, for about 2 weeks until school starts. But Im just wondering, have you even ever tried to make a piece of land legal to build? Do you know anything about it? Ill tell you straight up, I dont. If I would have thought about this and started this 3 months ago and knew something about it, maybe it could have got done. But like I said I have no idea what it takes and consists of, and to be honest, I dont think most people do either to make that legal.
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  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by sixsixtysix
    Welcome to life. Get used to it.
    Oh trust me, ive gone though this get denied life, especially in the music industry, so Its not anything new to me.
    I Like Dirt.

  76. #76
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    That's right Tanner...don't give up before You even try. Good things come to those that work hard and have patience. Wouldn't it be great to have a place you wouldn't have to worry about your hard work getting torn down. Maybe head out to mmp and help out with the new jump line and pick Alan's brain on how he worked with the authorities to get that project approved. That would be a good start. Otherwise Maybe just let this issue rest and wait till you go to college and will have to worry about more important things like parties, grades and not getting std's.

  77. #77
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    You are in high school, I know I had a lot of free time :P

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by tannerdrummer
    Oh you think I have a bunch of time? Yeah I do, for about 2 weeks until school starts. But Im just wondering, have you even ever tried to make a piece of land legal to build? Do you know anything about it? Ill tell you straight up, I dont. If I would have thought about this and started this 3 months ago and knew something about it, maybe it could have got done. But like I said I have no idea what it takes and consists of, and to be honest, I dont think most people do either to make that legal.



    You could build a pretty kewl jump line in a week. Then you could have a whole week to ride it before school starts....just sayin'

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    You could try contacting the Central Oregon Trail Alliance. They have had success with the US Forest Service. They have built alot of trails,skinnies,ladders and a skills/jump park with approval. They might be able to give you some help on a strategy for approval of your work.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by tannerdrummer
    Oh you think I have a bunch of time? Yeah I do, for about 2 weeks until school starts. But Im just wondering, have you even ever tried to make a piece of land legal to build? Do you know anything about it? Ill tell you straight up, I dont. If I would have thought about this and started this 3 months ago and knew something about it, maybe it could have got done. But like I said I have no idea what it takes and consists of, and to be honest, I dont think most people do either to make that legal.
    Tanner, if you think your time is precious now, just wait until you get into the real world and have to get a job. Then you'll be wishing you were back at school.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  81. #81
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    You know I actually have...we were working with the city of Tempe, but then our plan got put on the back burner. Now I'm stoked to be working with Alan on mmp and learning from him wnd using it as an example so when the timing is right I can attack! But keep arguing with us and saying it can't be done and see how far that gets you. Create a goal, then a plan with specific tasks to attain that goal and if You follow through you will succeed.

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    This thread can be DELETED if a moderator is reading this.
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  83. #83
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    Way to give up without even starting...I see big things in you future

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    Did I ever say I was giving up? Theres just no need for this thread to go on. Im on the internet right now looking up phone numbers for city of mesa just to get more info and stuff. And yes, I do see big things in my future.
    I Like Dirt.

  85. #85
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    Right on! Way to move forward. Ill stopbigging u now.

  86. #86
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    Just a thought:

    You do not need to re-invent the wheel!

    Check out the BMX community and see how they got things like the Chandler Espee park built. You may find out that the answer is not always no.

    We are working with them down in Tucson and they have a lot to offer in the way of political know how.

  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by SunDog
    Sez who? Have you even tried?

    ****snip*****

    Just saying.
    People have tried. Michael Yares and others made great progress with the City for promoting Aggressive riding in the valley. the formation of AGRO was a great start. generated a good initial ground swell and was very visible to the city, promoting constructive good will from the city.

    However when Micheal moved the NorCal, sadly, this step in the right direction faded away. With no rational,respected, loud voice (did I just say that about Micheal? ) that can equally represent the MTB community and that of the land managers the effort seems to have fizzled out.

    His vision was to convert the Holbert Pit at SoMo to just the place the original poster wants to rogue build. However the "instant gratification", "THEY will never stand true to their promises", and "work the system and you just waste your time getting nothing" crowd seems to have won out over the new attitude and voice Michael and others brought to the "aggressive" technically minded MTB community.

    shame. Here's to a new group of riders stepping up and proactively improving the opportunities for them to recreate in positive ways.

    stepping down from soapbox.
    b

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