Results 1 to 23 of 23
  1. #1
    I am Bob
    Reputation: chongoman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    1,801

    Mormon loop widdow maker/cardiac hill PSA

    Now don't get all pissed off or feel accused that's not the intention at all...

    We all know this section of trail on SoMo is quite wide. I think it's wide because it's way steep and every time it rains any idea of where the line (for hiking or biking) is washed over by gravel and rubble.
    Again I'm not blaming any users for that, but there is a line forming on riders right when decending the trail that should really stop. Of all places for a new line at SoMo that one seems pretty silly and we need a little self policing to stop it. This new line is clearly being used by bikes and if more people use it the trail will end up being another 4 feet wide. LAME.
    Please convince you and your riding buddies not to ride it. it will only make an ugly section of trail more ugly and give the rock farrries/bike haters something else to hate us with.

    If you want to get gnarley there is a nice, tough drop/jump right in the middle of the trail.

  2. #2
    ******ed or Branded??
    Reputation: doodooboi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    2,014
    Quote Originally Posted by chongoman
    Now don't get all pissed off or feel accused that's not the intention at all...

    We all know this section of trail on SoMo is quite wide. I think it's wide because it's way steep and every time it rains any idea of where the line (for hiking or biking) is washed over by gravel and rubble.
    Again I'm not blaming any users for that, but there is a line forming on riders right when decending the trail that should really stop. Of all places for a new line at SoMo that one seems pretty silly and we need a little self policing to stop it. This new line is clearly being used by bikes and if more people use it the trail will end up being another 4 feet wide. LAME.
    Please convince you and your riding buddies not to ride it. it will only make an ugly section of trail more ugly and give the rock farrries/bike haters something else to hate us with.

    If you want to get gnarley there is a nice, tough drop/jump right in the middle of the trail.

    I know what your talking about on the right side as you are decending but I personally have not ever seen anyone take that line going down. Most people I know (DH'er) will take the inside line cause it's alot faster and the drop is alot more fun. Matter of fact besides the obvious of that right line where is the original line at all????? I have scoped it out a ton of times and could not see a line but that just gave me better reason to plow stright down the middle of that thing.

    Now as for climbing that beast that's a whole different ball park. I know everyone and I mean everyone rides up that right side (well Left if you are looking up). And that's because it's the smooths line out there that can make the climb some what bareable!!

    Now when I first climbed that monster I took the god awful right side (looking up) and I made it pretty far and then someone on my left said "why are you taking that crappy line". So since then I have been taking that right side.

    If you really wanted to prevent people to be using that smooth line I would suggest you get with the Rangers and block it off and draw out a line with water bars so that is won't get washed out again. I think that would work best instead of asking a small amout of people that rides that mountain to not use that line. I know a nice little sign of "Area Closed" will work in your favor!

    p.s. I love using smilies!!!

  3. #3
    recovering roadie
    Reputation: dobbs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    514
    I'm probably going to get totally flamed for saying this, but the trail on that section needs to be totally rerouted. It's an erosion nightmare and it's only going to get worse.

  4. #4
    I am Bob
    Reputation: chongoman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    1,801
    I'm not suggesting that using any specific line within the current rocky, messy expanse is bad. That mess gets washed out with every big storm. Within that area, any line is kosher i guess.
    It's just that there is a new line on rider' right form the top that cuts through previously unused area a few feet outside of all that. that's not cool in my book. Rather than calling the ranger I'm just putting out there as a PSA. Lots of lurkers and active posters use this board. I think it's probably the best way to reach the PHX SoMo crowd. I like the self policing method. Knowing is half the battle
    I ride up and down that thing on big and little bikes frequently and have seen this slowly forming and I don't like the looks of it one bit!

    Quote Originally Posted by doodooboi
    :

    If you really wanted to prevent people to be using that smooth line I would suggest you get with the Rangers and block it off and draw out a line with water bars so that is won't get washed out again. I think that would work best instead of asking a small amout of people that rides that mountain to not use that line. I know a nice little sign of "Area Closed" will work in your favor!

    p.s. I love using smilies!!!

  5. #5
    ******ed or Branded??
    Reputation: doodooboi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    2,014
    Quote Originally Posted by dobbs
    I'm probably going to get totally flamed for saying this, but the trail on that section needs to be totally rerouted. It's an erosion nightmare and it's only going to get worse.
    +1

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mt bk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    112
    I haven't been up there for a while, but I can imagine what's happening to my home turf. Remember when the DC was an 8 inch wide trail?? I promise to stay off the new path.

    I have to make amends for my youth way back when I used to ride my Suzuki up and around the hills, and race my baja where Ahwatukee is today.

    The park service has done an amazing job of restoring the area if this is all we have to complain about 25 years later. This is especially notable considering the amount of day to day foot/bike/horse traffic.
    Just Ride!

  7. #7
    Just another half mile...
    Reputation: Epicrider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    890
    I am totally in agreement with you on this. This is a typical fall line trail that is not sustainable and needs to be rerouted badly. There were a few fall line trails in the Dreamy Draw area and over the last several years Ranger Paul has rerouted the trail and now they are great twisty singletrack climbs. It wouldn't take to much to reroute this section of Mormon.

    Quote Originally Posted by dobbs
    I'm probably going to get totally flamed for saying this, but the trail on that section needs to be totally rerouted. It's an erosion nightmare and it's only going to get worse.
    Last edited by Epicrider; 12-12-2008 at 02:24 PM.

  8. #8
    recovering roadie
    Reputation: dobbs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    514
    Glad I'm not the only one with this opinion. I look at it from the bottom and it makes me cringe - it's a massive scar on the mountain. It could use some bench-cut singletrack and some switchbacks. This is not a ridability issue - I clean it a lot - but a sustainability issue.

    Should we bring it up with management?

  9. #9
    Just Joshin' ya!
    Reputation: PrincipalRider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    1,837
    It probably should be redone to handle the water. Even if it is just switchbacks, they would be mighty tight. I bet still very challenging to climb and they would make for an interesting descent.
    What do we want? TIME TRAVEL! When do want it? THAT'S IRRELEVANT!

  10. #10
    pedaller
    Reputation: Noelg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    2,400
    Quote Originally Posted by dobbs
    Should we bring it up with management?
    I think it would go a LONG way with mgmt (and the hikers) if we got a huge group of MTN bikers out there and re-routed this section of trail some weekend. This kind of project could really bring out a big group because it's local to so many of us and is a trail we ALL ride!

    I'm in!

    I'm sure Cactus Joe would haul a keg out there (for all participants) if they let him drive up the fire road!
    "Nobody ever told me not to try" - Curious George Soundtrack by Jack Johnson

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation: tmarkos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    2,353
    I'm all for it. Sign me up!

  12. #12
    Just Joshin' ya!
    Reputation: PrincipalRider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    1,837
    Me too!
    What do we want? TIME TRAVEL! When do want it? THAT'S IRRELEVANT!

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Kortface's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    328
    I'm in. That section could use alot of work.

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mhykhelle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    227

    If you guys are serious....

    Quote Originally Posted by Noelg
    I think it would go a LONG way with mgmt (and the hikers) if we got a huge group of MTN bikers out there and re-routed this section of trail some weekend. This kind of project could really bring out a big group because it's local to so many of us and is a trail we ALL ride!

    I'm in!

    I'm sure Cactus Joe would haul a keg out there (for all participants) if they let him drive up the fire road!
    I will take it up with the Park Manager. We can re-route around/through the scar. I scoped it and I'd bet we could get a hellacious crew out there for a two day work session and make it happen. Kind of a drag to lose the booter but that section is an eyesore.

    I will send a note to Mr Kieth. Who is up for sure? I may be gone by the time the actual work is scheduled but nothing like a last hurrah...

    We can likely get laborers from the MBAA XC point slaves too.

    Don't know about the beer but tools maybe.

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mhykhelle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    227

    I just commited you all

    Quote Originally Posted by mhykhelle
    I will take it up with the Park Manager. We can re-route around/through the scar. I scoped it and I'd bet we could get a hellacious crew out there for a two day work session and make it happen. Kind of a drag to lose the booter but that section is an eyesore.

    I will send a note to Mr Kieth. Who is up for sure? I may be gone by the time the actual work is scheduled but nothing like a last hurrah...

    We can likely get laborers from the MBAA XC point slaves too.

    Don't know about the beer but tools maybe.
    I'll see what the Park says....

  16. #16
    I am Bob
    Reputation: chongoman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    1,801
    Quote Originally Posted by mhykhelle
    I'll see what the Park says....
    Thanks man! I'll make sure I'm in for this too. this would be a kick ass improvement. Thanks for making the contact.

  17. #17
    I am Bob
    Reputation: chongoman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    1,801

    better nasty climb option

    If Widdow gets re re-routed and you're looking for a good, steep climb without switchbacks, ridgeline is way better anyway. Who else has gotten the climb in the photo? It's way tougher and way more fun than widdow. I usually start at Javalina, continue up to ridgeline, which drops down the fire road at beverly canyon, then take Mormon Loop up to National.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by chongoman; 12-12-2008 at 07:59 PM.

  18. #18
    Just Joshin' ya!
    Reputation: PrincipalRider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    1,837
    Quote Originally Posted by mhykhelle
    I will take it up with the Park Manager. We can re-route around/through the scar. I scoped it and I'd bet we could get a hellacious crew out there for a two day work session and make it happen. Kind of a drag to lose the booter but that section is an eyesore.

    I will send a note to Mr Kieth. Who is up for sure? I may be gone by the time the actual work is scheduled but nothing like a last hurrah...

    We can likely get laborers from the MBAA XC point slaves too.

    Don't know about the beer but tools maybe.
    I think the you can just keep a route up it that has about 5 switchbacks. I don't think that the challenge of the climb has to go since some people sort of use a switchback method to get up it anyway. I guess the tricky part would be to build it so it sheds water in a better fashion.
    What do we want? TIME TRAVEL! When do want it? THAT'S IRRELEVANT!

  19. #19
    Just another half mile...
    Reputation: Epicrider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    890
    As long as it not on a BCT work day, i'd be up for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by mhykhelle
    I'll see what the Park says....

  20. #20
    ride.
    Reputation: dirtybiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    119
    this is great! count me in.
    my friends and I have been doing mormon/national Wed. night rides and for some reason this topic came up last week, i dont know if it was the way the full moon lit up the widowmaker, but it disgusted the whole group, even the guys who dont really care about trail conditions. i cant even imagine what a bike hating hiker sees when the look at it

  21. #21
    It's a Sledgehammer.
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    357
    agreeed.. this section of mormon has at least tripled in width in the last 15 years.
    needs closure and rerouter.. or a giant slab of granite.

  22. #22
    recovering roadie
    Reputation: dobbs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    514
    My wife is due to have our second baby soon, otherwise I will attend, since I appear to be the instigator.

    Mhykhelle and Epicrider - good to see you today.

  23. #23
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Kortface's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    328
    Quote Originally Posted by chongoman
    If Widdow gets re re-routed and you're looking for a good, steep climb without switchbacks, ridgeline is way better anyway. Who else has gotten the climb in the photo? It's way tougher and way more fun than widdow. I usually start at Javalina, continue up to ridgeline, which drops down the fire road at beverly canyon, then take Mormon Loop up to National.

    Yeah, that would be great to just inprove the ridge line trail instead of trying to redoo the widdow maker.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •