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Thread: More Sedrama

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    More Sedrama

    Looks like the Coco NF isn't messing around these days. Archie site? Bad news.

    Forest Service seeks illegal trailbuilder

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    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona View Post
    Looks like the Coco NF isn't messing around these days. Archie site? Bad news.

    Forest Service seeks illegal trailbuilder
    ra:

    The problem with this article is that the newspaper has not gotten their facts straight in previous articles, so can you really believe the trail went though an arch site or a pile of pottery dust?

    It will be interesting who actually gets busted for the construction. I wish I knew the exact location, so I might be able to help with the investigation. I am curious if the trail is on my comprehensive trail map known as the Bewer trail?

    One thing I know for sure Jon Nelson is a man on a mission and he will not sleep until the builder is brought to justice.

    I understand the FS has recently found out about the new Transcept trail and they are probably going to be shutting it down in the near future. If you love that trail you better ride it before the shutdown.

    Thank God I am on the road for the next four months living the dream rather than the Sedona nightmare.

    TD
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    Last edited by traildoc; 08-14-2012 at 09:53 PM.

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    Odd, the description of the location is exactly where Brewer is. I'm surprised the FS put out an all points bulletin instead of just laying in wait for the rogue builder. Or, put in a game camera. Isn't that how they busted the Shadow on Transept?

    Either way, someone isn't getting the message.

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    That dude sure has a lot of vaginas on his forehead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona View Post
    Looks like the Coco NF isn't messing around these days. Archie site? Bad news.

    Forest Service seeks illegal trailbuilder
    this article screams 'white people problems'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chollaball View Post
    this article screams 'white people problems'.
    things would be perfect if we all listened to Skip

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    Quote Originally Posted by chollaball View Post
    this article screams 'white people problems'.
    HA! HUGE first world issues for sure!

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    [QUOTE=traildoc;9594138

    Thank God I am on the road for the next four months living the dream rather than the Sedona nightmare.

    TD[/QUOTE]

    Have you convinced yourself that you weren't banned from the forest?

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    I wonder if this is just a shockwave from all the publicity that has been given to the area thanks to needless promotion of the use of unsanctioned trails . Next they will rightly enforce the new close unless signed open rule. Maybe this was inevitable but I doubt anyone will argue it wasn't helped along.
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    ra:



    One thing I know for sure Jon Nelson is a man on a mission and he will not sleep until the builder is brought to justice.


    TD
    Is this the same John Nelson who retired from the Peaks Ranger District in Flagstaff? He absolutely hates mountain bikers. Even when his trail staff secured funding for multi-use trail projects, he'd divert it and force them to work on trails he and his friends used for horse riding. One year we organized over 100 volunteers for National Trail Days, in hopes of improving trail we ride in the Flagstaff area, and John Nelson declared the work site would be along a section of old trail near Ashurst Lake, a half hour drive down Lake Mary Road. A trail ridden primarily by him and other equestrians. He even decline free grant funding for trail maintenance work from the RTP Grant provided by State Parks. I'm guessing they added the archy site language to gain support from the public. They can call just about anything an archy site without technically lying about it.

    What this story may indicate is the local land manager has lost control and there is a culture of independent trail building in Sedona that was at least partially fostered by the Forest Service and it's policies and staff, who also ignore the laws and do their own rogue trail building. In time, when land managers become lazy and do not serve the needs of recreational trail users, those users may feel that they don't owe the land managers any respect, and they take responsibility to provide all users greater opportunities without working within the rules. Call it a pioneering spirit, if you will. It's part of our heritage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by clockwork View Post
    I wonder if this is just a shockwave from all the publicity that has been given to the area thanks to needless promotion of the use of unsanctioned trails . Next they will rightly enforce the new close unless signed open rule. Maybe this was inevitable but I doubt anyone will argue it wasn't helped along.
    Interesting post cw. Riders come from all over the world to ride the great Sedona trails. You can see them driving around town with out of state license plates and bikes on their bike racks.

    Cosmic Ray and Bear Tooth have the world class trails on their maps or trail guides and the shops take riders on the user built trails for their best shop rides. Bike magazines write articles on what a great place Sedona is to ride and they do other posts on their websites.

    One would think there is a great thing going on in Sedona if you were into mountain biking. If you are into to seeing a totally eroded landscape then Sedona is also the place to visit, because Mother Nature has definitely pounded the heck out the place.
    Every year the creeks run red with mud when when we have heavy periods of rain and after the scouring many of the washes have new lines to ride or hike.

    Like rockman says something sounds a little fishy.

    TD

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Prodigal Son View Post
    Is this the same John Nelson who retired from the Peaks Ranger District in Flagstaff? He absolutely hates mountain bikers. Even when his trail staff secured funding for multi-use trail projects, he'd divert it and force them to work on trails he and his friends used for horse riding. One year we organized over 100 volunteers for National Trail Days, in hopes of improving trail we ride in the Flagstaff area, and John Nelson declared the work site would be along a section of old trail near Ashurst Lake, a half hour drive down Lake Mary Road. A trail ridden primarily by him and other equestrians. He even decline free grant funding for trail maintenance work from the RTP Grant provided by State Parks. I'm guessing they added the archy site language to gain support from the public. They can call just about anything an archy site without technically lying about it.

    What this story may indicate is the local land manager has lost control and there is a culture of independent trail building in Sedona that was at least partially fostered by the Forest Service and it's policies and staff, who also ignore the laws and do their own rogue trail building. In time, when land managers become lazy and do not serve the needs of recreational trail users, those users may feel that they don't owe the land managers any respect, and they take responsibility to provide all users greater opportunities without working within the rules. Call it a pioneering spirit, if you will. It's part of our heritage.
    TPS:

    Informative post, but no it is a different Jon Nelson (I believe). I met with officer Nelson to discuss my citation on the Tea Cup trail. He is definitely not a mountain bike hater. In fact I think he appreciated the work I did on the Tea Cup trail, but because I didn't get written permission to do the necessary work he had to throw the book at me, it's his job and believe me he doesn't mess around.

    I do agree with you about what takes place with the mountain biking community when the FS decides to work with them. In Bend, OR they are allowing the mountain biking community to build trails all over the place.

    If you were a Sierra Club member you would think it is the worst environmental damage going on in the country, but as a mountain biker you think it's a mountain bike mecca with a great trail system.

    As a business owner you think, I appreciate the business. As a FS worker you think, thank God the users are doing the building and maintaining of all those trails, so I can go out and fight fires that are destroying the environment much more than any mountain bike trail.

    Today we are SHUTTLING up with Cog Wild into the high country to do a ride on a trail that has been CLOSED due to supposed elk calving going on, up until yesterday. So today we get to see a bunch of elk with their new calves watching us fools riding our bikes through the beautiful forest having a great recreational experience.

    What a country

    TD

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    Quote Originally Posted by chollaball View Post
    this article screams 'white people problems'.
    Yeah, not as diverse as the MTBR forums.......

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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    Interesting post cw. Riders come from all over the world to ride the great Sedona trails. You can see them driving around town with out of state license plates and bikes on their bike racks.

    Cosmic Ray and Bear Tooth have the world class trails on their maps or trail guides and the shops take riders on the user built trails for their best shop rides. Bike magazines write articles on what a great place Sedona is to ride and they do other posts on their websites.

    One would think there is a great thing going on in Sedona if you were into mountain biking. If you are into to seeing a totally eroded landscape then Sedona is also the place to visit, because Mother Nature has definitely pounded the heck out the place.
    Every year the creeks run red with mud when when we have heavy periods of rain and after the scouring many of the washes have new lines to ride or hike.

    Like rockman says something sounds a little fishy.

    TD
    So, why exactly do you think they are taking these measures? Nobody disagrees Sedona is a great mt biking destination. However, so far that does not seem to have stopped the FS from taking actions.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

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    Saw this one on AZFamily.com

    Photos: Officials searching for those who made illegal trail in Sedona | azfamily.com Phoenix

    Looks like they have a couple of photos - not sure if the trail photo is the actual illegal trail or not, but, if it is someone put some serious work into it.
    Yes, I'm the crazy christmas guy!

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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    Interesti

    Like rockman says something sounds a little fishy.

    TD
    TD, I didn't say that. Rather I insinuated there had been a change in tactics. That's all.

    edit to add: From the pictures and map location Jennifer emailed out it appears to me someone took it upon themselves to reroute the lower part of Brewer. This section is an old system trail and much if it is fall line. I'm not saying it's the right thing to do but it doesn't appear to be some kids out making a DH trail because you can shuttle airport rd; major time, effort, and know-how went into all that bench cut along contour.

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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post

    Today we are SHUTTLING up with Cog Wild into the high country to do a ride on a trail that has been CLOSED due to supposed elk calving going on, up until yesterday. So today we get to see a bunch of elk with their new calves watching us fools riding our bikes through the beautiful forest having a great recreational experience.


    TD
    TD,

    That section of trail is closed every year until August 15 since it is an established elk calving area. All the guide books and online info clearly state that it remains closed until that date. See, for example,

    Flagline Trails

    Anyway, looks like we missed each other by just a few days as we did a ride (Bachelor to Bend) with Cog Wild on Friday. They seem to be a good outfit.

    -db-

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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    TPS:

    Informative post, but no it is a different Jon Nelson (I believe).

    TD
    correct. the john nelson tps speaks of was a biology/range guy (i think) and retired a couple years back... he was a tall guy... nicknamed full-nelson. obviously, the other one is a usfs leo and is still working... he is a short guy... nicknamed half-nelson.

    clever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    TD, I didn't say that. Rather I insinuated there had been a change in tactics. That's all.

    edit to add: From the pictures and map location Jennifer emailed out it appears to me someone took it upon themselves to reroute the lower part of Brewer. This section is an old system trail and much if it is fall line. I'm not saying it's the right thing to do but it doesn't appear to be some kids out making a DH trail because you can shuttle airport rd; major time, effort, and know-how went into all that bench cut along contour.


    Wow, that is one heck of a trail enhancement and as rockman said that work was not done by any of the retired trail builders I am familiar with. The leo in the picture is my riding buddy Ranger Mike O'Neil. Mike is a no nonsense guy and I am sure he has sent those tools to a federal crime lab for finger prints and DNA analysis.

    I would estimate that the person who built that trail will be getting a visit from Mike in the near future and Jon Nelson will be ready to take the case to Federal Court for prosecution.

    I am curious if the trail was built to the new Sedona standard of trail building or the builder used the old style IMBA technique. Does anyone have additional pictures and a GPS track? Did the trail get built through a ruin or Indian cemetery?

    TD

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    Absolutely disgraceful. I hope they catch that guy and prosecute him to the fullest extent of the law. I thought letting TD off so lightly was a travesty.

    On another note...does anybody know where I can pick up a saw, a tree lopper, and some other tools cheap? Mine seem to have all disappeared.

    (Can they get DNA off a tree lopper?)

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    I wonder how USFS funds will be used to close renegade trails down.
    $10,000 sign and $800 post...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Centurion_ View Post
    Absolutely disgraceful. I hope they catch that guy and prosecute him to the fullest extent of the law. I thought letting TD off so lightly was a travesty.

    On another note...does anybody know where I can pick up a saw, a tree lopper, and some other tools cheap? Mine seem to have all disappeared.

    (Can they get DNA off a tree lopper?)
    C:

    From the pictures seen so far it doesn't seem to me that this is a mountain bike trail. It is way over built and you don't see any bike tracks on the trail tread. The current trail in that area is a fun mountain bike trail and besides being a terribly routed trail it is challenging to ride. Unless you have reinvented your riding style since we last rode together, I would venture a guess that you would not be a happy camper riding that trail unless you like doing the superman move.

    It may have been built by one of the recent IMBA trail school graduates since it was over brushed and had a larger than normal bench cut.

    It is interesting that Ranger Mike didn't do a stake out of the sight so they could get the perpetrator red handed.

    If you were to divide the 4' long by 1' foot wide section of trail, that I didn't get the proper written paper work to complete, into the length of that new trail, you are definitely going to have problem with Jon Nelson.
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    Last edited by traildoc; 08-15-2012 at 05:13 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    TPS:



    Today we are SHUTTLING up with Cog Wild into the high country to do a ride on a trail that has been CLOSED due to supposed elk calving going on, up until yesterday. So today we get to see a bunch of elk with their new calves watching us fools riding our bikes through the beautiful forest having a great recreational experience.

    What a country

    TD

    I wish I was back in Bend. I love all those rides, especially up at Tumalo Falls. Can you make it to Waldo Lake for a 19 mile ride around it? How about North Umpqua Trail or Survetor Ridge in Hood River?

    I overheard two young women who work for ACE talking about a service project they are required to do. I interrupted and asked them if they'd like to do some trail improvements. They agreed and I am trying to play the middle man between them and the FS, to get the project scheduled. I conveniently picked a trail I run on and ride on almost every day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    C:

    If you were to divide the 4' long by 1' foot wide section of trail, that I didn't get the proper written paper work to complete, into the length of that new trail, you are definitely going to have problem with Jon Nelson.
    EXACTLY. I mean...you have planned, built, partially maintained, and mapped tens (maybe hundreds actually) of miles of trails around Sedona, and then you get fined and banished by the FS for maybe 4 square feet of trail improvement.

    Hard to believe. I mean, it's a good thing they didn't catch you doing all that other stuff.

    You could have gotten life...

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