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Thread: More Sedrama

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    More Sedrama

    Looks like the Coco NF isn't messing around these days. Archie site? Bad news.

    Forest Service seeks illegal trailbuilder

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    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona View Post
    Looks like the Coco NF isn't messing around these days. Archie site? Bad news.

    Forest Service seeks illegal trailbuilder
    ra:

    The problem with this article is that the newspaper has not gotten their facts straight in previous articles, so can you really believe the trail went though an arch site or a pile of pottery dust?

    It will be interesting who actually gets busted for the construction. I wish I knew the exact location, so I might be able to help with the investigation. I am curious if the trail is on my comprehensive trail map known as the Bewer trail?

    One thing I know for sure Jon Nelson is a man on a mission and he will not sleep until the builder is brought to justice.

    I understand the FS has recently found out about the new Transcept trail and they are probably going to be shutting it down in the near future. If you love that trail you better ride it before the shutdown.

    Thank God I am on the road for the next four months living the dream rather than the Sedona nightmare.

    TD
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    Odd, the description of the location is exactly where Brewer is. I'm surprised the FS put out an all points bulletin instead of just laying in wait for the rogue builder. Or, put in a game camera. Isn't that how they busted the Shadow on Transept?

    Either way, someone isn't getting the message.

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    That dude sure has a lot of vaginas on his forehead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona View Post
    Looks like the Coco NF isn't messing around these days. Archie site? Bad news.

    Forest Service seeks illegal trailbuilder
    this article screams 'white people problems'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chollaball View Post
    this article screams 'white people problems'.
    things would be perfect if we all listened to Skip

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    Quote Originally Posted by chollaball View Post
    this article screams 'white people problems'.
    HA! HUGE first world issues for sure!

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    [QUOTE=traildoc;9594138

    Thank God I am on the road for the next four months living the dream rather than the Sedona nightmare.

    TD[/QUOTE]

    Have you convinced yourself that you weren't banned from the forest?

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    I wonder if this is just a shockwave from all the publicity that has been given to the area thanks to needless promotion of the use of unsanctioned trails . Next they will rightly enforce the new close unless signed open rule. Maybe this was inevitable but I doubt anyone will argue it wasn't helped along.
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    ra:



    One thing I know for sure Jon Nelson is a man on a mission and he will not sleep until the builder is brought to justice.


    TD
    Is this the same John Nelson who retired from the Peaks Ranger District in Flagstaff? He absolutely hates mountain bikers. Even when his trail staff secured funding for multi-use trail projects, he'd divert it and force them to work on trails he and his friends used for horse riding. One year we organized over 100 volunteers for National Trail Days, in hopes of improving trail we ride in the Flagstaff area, and John Nelson declared the work site would be along a section of old trail near Ashurst Lake, a half hour drive down Lake Mary Road. A trail ridden primarily by him and other equestrians. He even decline free grant funding for trail maintenance work from the RTP Grant provided by State Parks. I'm guessing they added the archy site language to gain support from the public. They can call just about anything an archy site without technically lying about it.

    What this story may indicate is the local land manager has lost control and there is a culture of independent trail building in Sedona that was at least partially fostered by the Forest Service and it's policies and staff, who also ignore the laws and do their own rogue trail building. In time, when land managers become lazy and do not serve the needs of recreational trail users, those users may feel that they don't owe the land managers any respect, and they take responsibility to provide all users greater opportunities without working within the rules. Call it a pioneering spirit, if you will. It's part of our heritage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by clockwork View Post
    I wonder if this is just a shockwave from all the publicity that has been given to the area thanks to needless promotion of the use of unsanctioned trails . Next they will rightly enforce the new close unless signed open rule. Maybe this was inevitable but I doubt anyone will argue it wasn't helped along.
    Interesting post cw. Riders come from all over the world to ride the great Sedona trails. You can see them driving around town with out of state license plates and bikes on their bike racks.

    Cosmic Ray and Bear Tooth have the world class trails on their maps or trail guides and the shops take riders on the user built trails for their best shop rides. Bike magazines write articles on what a great place Sedona is to ride and they do other posts on their websites.

    One would think there is a great thing going on in Sedona if you were into mountain biking. If you are into to seeing a totally eroded landscape then Sedona is also the place to visit, because Mother Nature has definitely pounded the heck out the place.
    Every year the creeks run red with mud when when we have heavy periods of rain and after the scouring many of the washes have new lines to ride or hike.

    Like rockman says something sounds a little fishy.

    TD

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Prodigal Son View Post
    Is this the same John Nelson who retired from the Peaks Ranger District in Flagstaff? He absolutely hates mountain bikers. Even when his trail staff secured funding for multi-use trail projects, he'd divert it and force them to work on trails he and his friends used for horse riding. One year we organized over 100 volunteers for National Trail Days, in hopes of improving trail we ride in the Flagstaff area, and John Nelson declared the work site would be along a section of old trail near Ashurst Lake, a half hour drive down Lake Mary Road. A trail ridden primarily by him and other equestrians. He even decline free grant funding for trail maintenance work from the RTP Grant provided by State Parks. I'm guessing they added the archy site language to gain support from the public. They can call just about anything an archy site without technically lying about it.

    What this story may indicate is the local land manager has lost control and there is a culture of independent trail building in Sedona that was at least partially fostered by the Forest Service and it's policies and staff, who also ignore the laws and do their own rogue trail building. In time, when land managers become lazy and do not serve the needs of recreational trail users, those users may feel that they don't owe the land managers any respect, and they take responsibility to provide all users greater opportunities without working within the rules. Call it a pioneering spirit, if you will. It's part of our heritage.
    TPS:

    Informative post, but no it is a different Jon Nelson (I believe). I met with officer Nelson to discuss my citation on the Tea Cup trail. He is definitely not a mountain bike hater. In fact I think he appreciated the work I did on the Tea Cup trail, but because I didn't get written permission to do the necessary work he had to throw the book at me, it's his job and believe me he doesn't mess around.

    I do agree with you about what takes place with the mountain biking community when the FS decides to work with them. In Bend, OR they are allowing the mountain biking community to build trails all over the place.

    If you were a Sierra Club member you would think it is the worst environmental damage going on in the country, but as a mountain biker you think it's a mountain bike mecca with a great trail system.

    As a business owner you think, I appreciate the business. As a FS worker you think, thank God the users are doing the building and maintaining of all those trails, so I can go out and fight fires that are destroying the environment much more than any mountain bike trail.

    Today we are SHUTTLING up with Cog Wild into the high country to do a ride on a trail that has been CLOSED due to supposed elk calving going on, up until yesterday. So today we get to see a bunch of elk with their new calves watching us fools riding our bikes through the beautiful forest having a great recreational experience.

    What a country

    TD

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    Quote Originally Posted by chollaball View Post
    this article screams 'white people problems'.
    Yeah, not as diverse as the MTBR forums.......

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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    Interesting post cw. Riders come from all over the world to ride the great Sedona trails. You can see them driving around town with out of state license plates and bikes on their bike racks.

    Cosmic Ray and Bear Tooth have the world class trails on their maps or trail guides and the shops take riders on the user built trails for their best shop rides. Bike magazines write articles on what a great place Sedona is to ride and they do other posts on their websites.

    One would think there is a great thing going on in Sedona if you were into mountain biking. If you are into to seeing a totally eroded landscape then Sedona is also the place to visit, because Mother Nature has definitely pounded the heck out the place.
    Every year the creeks run red with mud when when we have heavy periods of rain and after the scouring many of the washes have new lines to ride or hike.

    Like rockman says something sounds a little fishy.

    TD
    So, why exactly do you think they are taking these measures? Nobody disagrees Sedona is a great mt biking destination. However, so far that does not seem to have stopped the FS from taking actions.
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    Saw this one on AZFamily.com

    Photos: Officials searching for those who made illegal trail in Sedona | azfamily.com Phoenix

    Looks like they have a couple of photos - not sure if the trail photo is the actual illegal trail or not, but, if it is someone put some serious work into it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    Interesti

    Like rockman says something sounds a little fishy.

    TD
    TD, I didn't say that. Rather I insinuated there had been a change in tactics. That's all.

    edit to add: From the pictures and map location Jennifer emailed out it appears to me someone took it upon themselves to reroute the lower part of Brewer. This section is an old system trail and much if it is fall line. I'm not saying it's the right thing to do but it doesn't appear to be some kids out making a DH trail because you can shuttle airport rd; major time, effort, and know-how went into all that bench cut along contour.

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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post

    Today we are SHUTTLING up with Cog Wild into the high country to do a ride on a trail that has been CLOSED due to supposed elk calving going on, up until yesterday. So today we get to see a bunch of elk with their new calves watching us fools riding our bikes through the beautiful forest having a great recreational experience.


    TD
    TD,

    That section of trail is closed every year until August 15 since it is an established elk calving area. All the guide books and online info clearly state that it remains closed until that date. See, for example,

    Flagline Trails

    Anyway, looks like we missed each other by just a few days as we did a ride (Bachelor to Bend) with Cog Wild on Friday. They seem to be a good outfit.

    -db-

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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    TPS:

    Informative post, but no it is a different Jon Nelson (I believe).

    TD
    correct. the john nelson tps speaks of was a biology/range guy (i think) and retired a couple years back... he was a tall guy... nicknamed full-nelson. obviously, the other one is a usfs leo and is still working... he is a short guy... nicknamed half-nelson.

    clever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    TD, I didn't say that. Rather I insinuated there had been a change in tactics. That's all.

    edit to add: From the pictures and map location Jennifer emailed out it appears to me someone took it upon themselves to reroute the lower part of Brewer. This section is an old system trail and much if it is fall line. I'm not saying it's the right thing to do but it doesn't appear to be some kids out making a DH trail because you can shuttle airport rd; major time, effort, and know-how went into all that bench cut along contour.


    Wow, that is one heck of a trail enhancement and as rockman said that work was not done by any of the retired trail builders I am familiar with. The leo in the picture is my riding buddy Ranger Mike O'Neil. Mike is a no nonsense guy and I am sure he has sent those tools to a federal crime lab for finger prints and DNA analysis.

    I would estimate that the person who built that trail will be getting a visit from Mike in the near future and Jon Nelson will be ready to take the case to Federal Court for prosecution.

    I am curious if the trail was built to the new Sedona standard of trail building or the builder used the old style IMBA technique. Does anyone have additional pictures and a GPS track? Did the trail get built through a ruin or Indian cemetery?

    TD

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    Absolutely disgraceful. I hope they catch that guy and prosecute him to the fullest extent of the law. I thought letting TD off so lightly was a travesty.

    On another note...does anybody know where I can pick up a saw, a tree lopper, and some other tools cheap? Mine seem to have all disappeared.

    (Can they get DNA off a tree lopper?)

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    I wonder how USFS funds will be used to close renegade trails down.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Centurion_ View Post
    Absolutely disgraceful. I hope they catch that guy and prosecute him to the fullest extent of the law. I thought letting TD off so lightly was a travesty.

    On another note...does anybody know where I can pick up a saw, a tree lopper, and some other tools cheap? Mine seem to have all disappeared.

    (Can they get DNA off a tree lopper?)
    C:

    From the pictures seen so far it doesn't seem to me that this is a mountain bike trail. It is way over built and you don't see any bike tracks on the trail tread. The current trail in that area is a fun mountain bike trail and besides being a terribly routed trail it is challenging to ride. Unless you have reinvented your riding style since we last rode together, I would venture a guess that you would not be a happy camper riding that trail unless you like doing the superman move.

    It may have been built by one of the recent IMBA trail school graduates since it was over brushed and had a larger than normal bench cut.

    It is interesting that Ranger Mike didn't do a stake out of the sight so they could get the perpetrator red handed.

    If you were to divide the 4' long by 1' foot wide section of trail, that I didn't get the proper written paper work to complete, into the length of that new trail, you are definitely going to have problem with Jon Nelson.
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    TPS:



    Today we are SHUTTLING up with Cog Wild into the high country to do a ride on a trail that has been CLOSED due to supposed elk calving going on, up until yesterday. So today we get to see a bunch of elk with their new calves watching us fools riding our bikes through the beautiful forest having a great recreational experience.

    What a country

    TD

    I wish I was back in Bend. I love all those rides, especially up at Tumalo Falls. Can you make it to Waldo Lake for a 19 mile ride around it? How about North Umpqua Trail or Survetor Ridge in Hood River?

    I overheard two young women who work for ACE talking about a service project they are required to do. I interrupted and asked them if they'd like to do some trail improvements. They agreed and I am trying to play the middle man between them and the FS, to get the project scheduled. I conveniently picked a trail I run on and ride on almost every day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    C:

    If you were to divide the 4' long by 1' foot wide section of trail, that I didn't get the proper written paper work to complete, into the length of that new trail, you are definitely going to have problem with Jon Nelson.
    EXACTLY. I mean...you have planned, built, partially maintained, and mapped tens (maybe hundreds actually) of miles of trails around Sedona, and then you get fined and banished by the FS for maybe 4 square feet of trail improvement.

    Hard to believe. I mean, it's a good thing they didn't catch you doing all that other stuff.

    You could have gotten life...

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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    Wow, that is one heck of a trail enhancement and as rockman said that work was not done by any of the retired trail builders I am familiar with. The leo in the picture is my riding buddy Ranger Mike O'Neil. Mike is a no nonsense guy and I am sure he has sent those tools to a federal crime lab for finger prints and DNA analysis.

    I would estimate that the person who built that trail will be getting a visit from Mike in the near future and Jon Nelson will be ready to take the case to Federal Court for prosecution.

    I am curious if the trail was built to the new Sedona standard of trail building or the builder used the old style IMBA technique. Does anyone have additional pictures and a GPS track? Did the trail get built through a ruin or Indian cemetery?

    TD
    Like Bike Doc suggested, if the builders would have left their tools at home and herded some cows where they wanted the reroute alligned, John Nelson would have thanked them. I think that's about what he said, maybe not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Centurion_ View Post
    Absolutely disgraceful. I hope they catch that guy and prosecute him to the fullest extent of the law. I thought letting TD off so lightly was a travesty.

    On another note...does anybody know where I can pick up a saw, a tree lopper, and some other tools cheap? Mine seem to have all disappeared.

    (Can they get DNA off a tree lopper?)
    Yes they can but it will only narrow it down between Pinion Pine and Juniper. CSI Sedona will have to gather further forensic evidence. Perhaps trail builder droppings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Centurion_ View Post
    EXACTLY. I mean...you have planned, built, partially maintained, and mapped tens (maybe hundreds actually) of miles of trails around Sedona, and then you get fined and banished by the FS for maybe 4 square feet of trail improvement.

    Hard to believe. I mean, it's a good thing they didn't catch you doing all that other stuff.

    You could have gotten life...
    C:

    If they find paw prints or boot prints they can do a casting of each. If there are dog prints from two different dogs that could be very useful information. Clockwork estimated some tree cutting damage a couple months ago, so maybe they could have him determine when that branch was cut. The person who cut that branch is definitely not an arborist.

    I wonder if it might be the same group that cut all the branches on Chuck Wagon. Could the trail have been built by equestrians who feel the existing trail is too steep to ride comfortably.

    The saw blade looks rusty so that could also be a clue. The McLeod looks pretty new so maybe the manufacturer could be contacted about recent purchases from individuals living in Sedona.

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    TD,

    Quick question... If someone pleads guilty to one citation and the prosecuting attorney drops the others, is it still public record?

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    I saw a report on the news and they had Jennifer on camera showing a nice flowy berm... she specifically stated it was designed and built by a mountain biker.


    TD.. I thought you had been a long time advocate for user built trails. See what it gets us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc_foe View Post
    TD,

    Quick question... If someone pleads guilty to one citation and the prosecuting attorney drops the others, is it still public record?
    I would appreciate the moderator checking if this posters IP address is associated with one of my poster friends.

    That being said I would think so, but I don't know for sure. In my case there was no evidence on one citation that was dropped, and on the other citation it was realized I had implied consent to complete the project since the number three Sedona volunteer worker and a USFS employee worked with me on the project. When I asked for Archeological and NEPA studies for the site in question the FS refused to give me the reports since they proved my innocence on that charge.

    The work I did on the project was considered necessary and as good or better than any paid employee of the FS could have done.

    Due me a favor and answer a question for me, did you pay your IMBA dues this year?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillbo View Post
    I saw a report on the news and they had Jennifer on camera showing a nice flowy berm... she specifically stated it was designed and built by a mountain biker.


    TD.. I thought you had been a long time advocate for user built trails. See what it gets us.
    I haven't seen that picture yet, if it is true that really leaves the retired Sedona trail builders out of the equation. Since the Flag crowd is more inclined to build trails with berms maybe they have an idea who built that trail.

    Unless I am wrong again I think they are on hold for any building projects in Flagstaff, so they might be frustrated and doing work in Sedona. A bunch of them have created trails over in the Broken Arrow area in the recent past, so if I were Mike O'Neal I would check out the FGR membership list and get finger prints and DNA samples from those guys to see if there is a match.

    There are a few other downhill types in Sedona that Mike is friends with, so I would think those guys will be getting a visit in the near future.

    We went on a 28 mile shuttle ride today in Bend and it was a blast. I think the downhill component was about 3,500' with 1,500 of climbing. Along the way we even saw mother elk with their new born giving us high fives.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Prodigal Son View Post
    Yes they can but it will only narrow it down between Pinion Pine and Juniper. CSI Sedona will have to gather further forensic evidence. Perhaps trail builder droppings.
    I was thinking about Blood, Sweat, And Tears, all of which contain DNA, and all of which could possibly be found as residue on the handle of a hand tool. Just wondering what the chances of that happening were.

    And...come to think of it...wasn't that one helluva band?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillbo View Post
    I saw a report on the news and they had Jennifer on camera showing a nice flowy berm... she specifically stated it was designed and built by a mountain biker.


    TD.. I thought you had been a long time advocate for user built trails. See what it gets us.
    So, what does it get us? At last count, at least 50 new trails to ride in Sedona, not counting this one, that was more of a short connector. Your doppleganger, Skinny Tire, was inferring the same thing as you, that we are somehow losing out on something. TD has been on a world class vacation for months now and the FS is chasing their tail, hoping to make a couple press releases to get some assistance from snitches. But they aren't closing any of the trails I've been riding in Sedona. Can you say otherwise? No, didn't think so. As much as you and skinny would love to hang a trail closure around TD's neck, the FS is playing keystone cops. We have now and will continue to have a net increase in great riding trails in Sedona, no matter how much you wish we didn't.

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    Ode to user built trails that TD has spent so much time building... way to promote the cause TD

    Phoenix News | Arizona News | azfamily.com | Video

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    Low level federal bureaucrats with waaaaaay too much time on their hands.

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    Yes, it was a slow news day and some crew from channel 3 wanted to escape the heat and hang out in a Sedona bar after a quick 30 minutes of work taping the story.

    But it was the FS who contacted news media. That means the District Ranger was a part of a meeting where he asked Jennifer what the hell is happening on her watch? It may have gotten heated. She may not have had the right answers. He may have strongly suggested she come up with a new strategy or he would find someone new for her job. Thus, the first salvo, alert the media. Ask for snitches to come forward. Signs will be placed at trailheads very soon, asking for the public to help out. They will be sure to tell us that wildcat trails are a risk to human life and could add to global warming. Scary stuff. Skinny Tire will write countless threads repeating their propaganda, suggesting a lynch mob may be in order, and he has a prettty good idea who we should hang, according to word on the street.

    Pretty soon Jennifer will figure out a solution that will keep her out of hot water. She'll start adopting all user built trails into the local trail system and tell her boss there are no longer any wildcat trails in Sedona because she got rid of them. Problem solved. A win/win situation. We will then be forced to come up with new a creative threads that involve Trail Doc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Prodigal Son View Post
    Yes, it was a slow news day and some crew from channel 3 wanted to escape the heat and hang out in a Sedona bar after a quick 30 minutes of work taping the story.

    But it was the FS who contacted news media. That means the District Ranger was a part of a meeting where he asked Jennifer what the hell is happening on her watch? It may have gotten heated. She may not have had the right answers. He may have strongly suggested she come up with a new strategy or he would find someone new for her job. Thus, the first salvo, alert the media. Ask for snitches to come forward. Signs will be placed at trailheads very soon, asking for the public to help out. They will be sure to tell us that wildcat trails are a risk to human life and could add to global warming. Scary stuff. Skinny Tire will write countless threads repeating their propaganda, suggesting a lynch mob may be in order, and he has a prettty good idea who we should hang, according to word on the street.

    Pretty soon Jennifer will figure out a solution that will keep her out of hot water. She'll start adopting all user built trails into the local trail system and tell her boss there are no longer any wildcat trails in Sedona because she got rid of them. Problem solved. A win/win situation. We will then be forced to come up with new a creative threads that involve Trail Doc.
    TPS:

    Very insightful post. Now that the FS realizes I wasn't the one out destroying the environment they have gone to CH3 and used them to try and find out who the real culprit (s) is. While I have been gone the real culprit (s) figured it was prime time to build something new. When they finally catch this guy or gal Jon Nelson will put them through the ringer, I guarantee that.

    I would like to help with the investigation, but fortunately I am out making lemonade out of lemons. My new riding buddy in Bend says the Italian Alps is a fun place to mountain bike and I thought I might try that out next year during the hot months in AZ. He said you can easily do 7,000' feet descents each day.

    Since I won't be doing that $50,000 donation to the FS, I might as well be spending the money on enjoying life. After Bend we should be heading to Boise then to Rockman's favorite place Stanley, Idaho.

    What a World

    TD

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    I haven't seen that picture yet, if it is true that really leaves the retired Sedona trail builders out of the equation. Since the Flag crowd is more inclined to build trails with berms maybe they have an idea who built that trail.

    Unless I am wrong again I think they are on hold for any building projects in Flagstaff, so they might be frustrated and doing work in Sedona. A bunch of them have created trails over in the Broken Arrow area in the recent past, so if I were Mike O'Neal I would check out the FGR membership list and get finger prints and DNA samples from those guys to see if there is a match.

    There are a few other downhill types in Sedona that Mike is friends with, so I would think those guys will be getting a visit in the near future.

    We went on a 28 mile shuttle ride today in Bend and it was a blast. I think the downhill component was about 3,500' with 1,500 of climbing. Along the way we even saw mother elk with their new born giving us high fives.
    I'm working hard at creating a relationship with the FS and FGR, so why would you go and say something like this? Seems a little counter productive don't you think? I'm trying very hard to stay on your side but you continually make that very hard for me. Thanks TD for all of your "hard work". Another bridge is getting burned. I think I'm about done with your trail drama.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona View Post
    I'm working hard at creating a relationship with the FS and FGR, so why would you go and say something like this? Seems a little counter productive don't you think? I'm trying very hard to stay on your side but you continually make that very hard for me. Thanks TD for all of your "hard work". Another bridge is getting burned. I think I'm about done with your trail drama.
    ra:

    You and I are against unsanctioned trail building. The Sedona FS thinks this new trail was built by some downhiller types, who do you think built this trail? You have a lot of contacts in the Sedona and Flagstaff area with downhillers.

    If we are going to get on the side of the FS we need to help stop new unsanctioned trail building. I did a MTBR post months ago asking that unsanctioned trail building needs to come to a halt, that obviously didn't work.

    As a leader in the downhill community what is your suggestion in stopping future trail building? Before I saw that wimpy berm in the video I was hoping it was being built by a hiker, but that was a sign it was by someone wanting to carry speed down the trail.

    Who do you know who uses Brewer as a shuttle run? Those would be the most likely suspects. If I was a regular downhill shuttler on that trail I would stop riding that trail and spend the time praying my finger prints weren't on those tools.

    TD

  41. #41
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    ... and if we just ...

    Originally posted by Traildoc:
    Who do you know who uses Brewer as a shuttle run? Those would be the most likely suspects. If I was a regular downhill shuttler on that trail I would stop riding that trail and spend the time praying my finger prints weren't on those tools.

    TD
    Precisely, TD. Thus my earlier questions about DNA. I always try to wear gloves when I work, but a drop of sweat here, some blood from a thorny banch or a sharp rock...who knows?

    The main thing is, the main part of that section is now completed.
    So at least for now, we'll be steering clear of that area...at least till the heat dies down. It''s on to the next project.

    TD, I sent you the updated proposed trail project maps. We await your instructions...

  42. #42
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    Disclaimer to Forest Service Employees for my previous post.

    Just kidding folks. Just havin a little fun is all. Traildoc has paid his debt to society and utterly repented of his past actions. To the best of my knowledge he has abandoned his nefarious clandistine trail building and maintenance activities. I receive no instructions from him on trail building and in fact, do not build or improve trails myself, other than to move an occasional rock or tree branch off to the side.

    I realize this probably makes me some sort of criminal by FS standards, and they undoubtedly have people out looking for me, but what can I say? Livin on the edge...that's what life's all about!

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Prodigal Son View Post
    So, what does it get us? At last count, at least 50 new trails to ride in Sedona, not counting this one, that was more of a short connector. Your doppleganger, Skinny Tire, was inferring the same thing as you, that we are somehow losing out on something. TD has been on a world class vacation for months now and the FS is chasing their tail, hoping to make a couple press releases to get some assistance from snitches. But they aren't closing any of the trails I've been riding in Sedona. Can you say otherwise? No, didn't think so. As much as you and skinny would love to hang a trail closure around TD's neck, the FS is playing keystone cops. We have now and will continue to have a net increase in great riding trails in Sedona, no matter how much you wish we didn't.
    Please stop assuming you know anything about me.

    (So, when you coming down for a ride?)
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    TPS:

    Very insightful post. Now that the FS realizes I wasn't the one out destroying the environment they have gone to CH3 and used them to try and find out who the real culprit (s) is. While I have been gone the real culprit (s) figured it was prime time to build something new. When they finally catch this guy or gal Jon Nelson will put them through the ringer, I guarantee that.

    I would like to help with the investigation, but fortunately I am out making lemonade out of lemons. My new riding buddy in Bend says the Italian Alps is a fun place to mountain bike and I thought I might try that out next year during the hot months in AZ. He said you can easily do 7,000' feet descents each day.

    Since I won't be doing that $50,000 donation to the FS, I might as well be spending the money on enjoying life. After Bend we should be heading to Boise then to Rockman's favorite place Stanley, Idaho.

    What a World

    TD
    Why did you pass up the North Umpqua? You could have cut over on your way to Bend. I am disappointed. Not enough downhill or just out of the way?

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by _dragon View Post
    Why did you pass up the North Umpqua? You could have cut over on your way to Bend. I am disappointed. Not enough downhill or just out of the way?
    I also love the North Umpgua, but we had friends from Australia meeting us in Bend, so we took a pass on this trip.

    TD

  46. #46
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    Uggg ... this sh!t again?
    “Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did." Mark Twain

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    TPS:


    If you were a Sierra Club member you would think it is the worst environmental damage going on in the country, but as a mountain biker you think it's a mountain bike mecca with a great trail system.

    TD
    At least you have the sense to realize this. Most MTBers are too self absorbed to get that not everyone would like to see the forest all cut up.

    The sad thing is that for every Sierra Club member looking to save everything and every MTBer who just wants a nice place to play, there are just as many who feel the forest is just a place to make money IE grazing, logging, mining.
    Singin' I love hike a bike!!!

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    I haven't seen that picture yet, if it is true that really leaves the retired Sedona trail builders out of the equation. Since the Flag crowd is more inclined to build trails with berms maybe they have an idea who built that trail.

    Unless I am wrong again I think they are on hold for any building projects in Flagstaff, so they might be frustrated and doing work in Sedona. A bunch of them have created trails over in the Broken Arrow area in the recent past, so if I were Mike O'Neal I would check out the FGR membership list and get finger prints and DNA samples from those guys to see if there is a match.

    There are a few other downhill types in Sedona that Mike is friends with, so I would think those guys will be getting a visit in the near future.

    We went on a 28 mile shuttle ride today in Bend and it was a blast. I think the downhill component was about 3,500' with 1,500 of climbing. Along the way we even saw mother elk with their new born giving us high fives.
    Classy.
    Make Flagstaff RAD Again.

  49. #49
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    I wonder if they are going to purchase .357 Sig 125 grain bonded jacketed hollow point bullets for the SS Forest Police?

    Really don't care. And beside Sedonanites built this beast. Perhaps we paint our bikes pink!?
    "Wisdom is the Chief element of happiness, and then there is ice cream!"

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by sinatorj View Post
    Classy.
    sintorj:

    Since ra hasn't come back with any ideas how to catch the builder of the new trail do you have any ideas? We are all hopefully trying to put a stop to new non-sanctioned trail building, I am certainly doing my part by leaving the state

    I have taken up dancing to try and control my need for exercise after a 28 mile downhill ride.


    TD
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