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Thread: Moab question

  1. #1
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    Moab question

    I'm planning a trip in August to do as much of the Whole Enchilada as possible. I've heard some of the shuttle services tell people they can take you as high as xxx, but sometimes you get dropped only to find the trail up that high is a huge mess.

    For those in the know (I've never ridden The Whole Enchilada) who do you trust for trail beta?

    I'd ask on the Utah site but I'm sure they're sick of these questions, plus I know a lot of us AZ riders hit up Moab often.

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    We were just out there last weekend and rode from Hazzard down. Trail conditions were fine, a bit dry but nothing terrible. The problem with upper sections is timing, we rode in good conditions on Sat then it dumped Sun morning so it was probably good and sloppy. Best bet would be to check local weather conditions and/or call one of the shops in town (Poison Spider runs shuttles).
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    Go with Coyote shuttle. They will get you as high as possible. Though I did find that finding the right trail was a bit tricky from the drop off point. You have to ride the whole thing. You get it all: alpine, meadows, rocks... you name it. Plus most of all, bragging rights. A six inch bike it best. My two buddies with 4 inch xc bike were way beat up by the time we hit lower porcupine.

    Plan on doing some hike a bike to get to the top of the pass to start the down hill. When you get droped off you will ride down a fire road for a mile or so, Then the trail splits of and heads up a jeep trail heading north west. You'll know your heading in the right direction if your huffing and buffing from the allitude. Or if your like me....hiking your bike. Its the best epic ride ever...period

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    Ya, can't wait to do this. We all have bikes ready for the task.

    Question: It's bound to be plenty hot by the time we hit Porcupine. Is there any place to pick up water on the way down? I could put two bladders in my Hawg but that's a lot of weight to carry around at 11,000+ feet. I'm probably being overly concerned as I doubt much water will be needed up high, but I'm used to Phoenix riding........I went through a full 3L today riding National up to the saddle and back. Granted it was 1pm when I started, lol.

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    No chance for water on the way down that I know of. (other than a creek at the start of the ride) Others might know different. I doubt it. Even in early november I went dry with a 100z bladder. And yes there is climbing.

    One thing my group decided was thaat we did not prep for this ride. Next time we will all start our ride at Denny's and eat as much as we can. You will have time to digest it on the shuttle ride up. We all pretty much bonked. Hydrate the night before. A bladder and a few bottles should do you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eatdrinkride
    Ya, can't wait to do this. We all have bikes ready for the task.

    Question: It's bound to be plenty hot by the time we hit Porcupine. Is there any place to pick up water on the way down? I could put two bladders in my Hawg but that's a lot of weight to carry around at 11,000+ feet. I'm probably being overly concerned as I doubt much water will be needed up high, but I'm used to Phoenix riding........I went through a full 3L today riding National up to the saddle and back. Granted it was 1pm when I started, lol.
    I have done Hazard down, and I only had 100 oz water and I went dry with 8 miles to go I think, Take as much water as you can (100 oz and a 70 oz would be good I think, and ther eis no where to get water along the way) depending on how much water you drink. Hydrate as best as possible the day before, eat a good breakfast, take gels and bars, a pb&j sandwich or 2 is nice also. It ia better to be over prepared than under prepared. If you really had to you could dump water towards the end if you are still carrying a lot. Also take Endurolytes or NUUN tablets or similar for electrolyte replacement, if it is hot you will need it.

  7. #7
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    I would recommend Bryan Nickell of Porcupine Shuttles (435 260 0896 for reservation) over Coyote-bigger, newer, more comfortable vans. . . and more HP. I haven't done it in August, but it's likely to be hot at the bottom. Hell, it was hot at the bottom in October.

    You might be able to kick Bryan a couple of bucks to drop an extra bladder at the top of Kokopelli. That way you don't have to hump it over the top of Burro and all the way down to the La Sal Loop Road. The top of Kokopelli is only a couple of miles past the road up to Burro, so it shouldn't be that big of deal.

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    Sounds like I'll just take a second bladder if I can't determine a place to drop water. I'd much rather be safe than sorry. Nothing ruins a ride for me more than running out of water when it's hot.

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    Last fall when we went up. We looked for a "I rode the Whole Enchilada" t-shirt. Some of the bike shops said they might print some for this year. I'm wonder if you could find one now. My group all agreed we classified the day as more of an "adventure" than just a ride. When you factor in location, time on the trail, injuries, mechanicals, scenery, route finding. My best day ever on a bike!

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    Shuttle

    I was there last month. The shuttle to the La Sal mtns is Hazard-ups-kokopelli-porcupine rim. Shuttle cost is $20.00 and takes you to 10,000 ft, town is 4,500. The shuttle from Poison spider is the best. There are 3 times 7:30-10:00-12:00. Take the early ride, and make sure you are half an hour early, first come first served. Do not use coyote shuttle, they are seriosly under powered VW vans and cannot handle the load and climb. The staff at Poison Spider were very helpful for all questions and free work stands at there store.
    In the morning drive up the Colo. river to where the porc. rim ends, and park there. That saves you an extra 5 miles in the heat of riding. After you park- make the 5 mile ride in the cool morning air. You will go through lots of water, I went through 3 litres and a bottle and still had an hour to go dry. Make sure you have all sorts of contigency tools and spare tubes etc. There were a number of ruined rear derailluers- I could of made a small mint if I had taken a number of spare derailluers.
    Ifyou have any other ? let me know -- I had the time of my life

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    I agree on getting the shuttle with the most HP. We went with Coyote, and though it's not that long of a drive, it took over an hour. This was with an early start time, and loads of coffee in me to wake me up. I've never had to pee so bad in my life.
    Also, take extra water I ran out about 6 miles from the bottom of the trail, and it sucked. Fortunately some good buds were smart enough to bring extra. It's dryer than a popcorn fart up there, and you don't seem to sweat. Be overly prepared and have fun. The extra weight on your back could save your life.
    .....

  12. #12
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    In the morning drive up the Colo. river to where the porc. rim ends, and park there. That saves you an extra 5 miles in the heat of riding.
    Ya we'll leave a car at the bottom on porc. In fact we'll probably drop a truck off there and shuttle our butts over to the shuttle/bike shop. Fug the 5 mile road ride, lol.

    Be overly prepared and have fun. The extra weight on your back could save your life.


    I need to check and see if any services leave earlier than 7:30. That seems kinda late for an August run. Of course a night of beer drinking might change my attitude come that day. Oh wait, I must hydrate, not de-hydrate. Beer is mostly water, right? Cool.

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    Remember to stash a cooler in the truck as well. Nothing beats a cold drink right at the end of the trail and it's extra motivation for those final miles
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    Quote Originally Posted by eatdrinkride
    I need to check and see if any services leave earlier than 7:30. That seems kinda late for an August run. Of course a night of beer drinking might change my attitude come that day. Oh wait, I must hydrate, not de-hydrate. Beer is mostly water, right? Cool.

    The beer in Utah is definately mostly water, you can drink 2 pitchers and you might have a buzz!

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    August is really a good time to go but it will be busy up there so it really doesn't mater what shuttle to use though I like Coyote the best. I mean really Who can beat a limo V-Dub Bus with 15 DH rigs on top. Get enough Riders together and you may get treated to the Duce and a half. May not be the fastest shuttle up the hill but Coyote is the fun bus
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbtcha
    August is really a good time to go but it will be busy up there so it really doesn't mater what shuttle to use though I like Coyote the best. I mean really Who can beat a limo V-Dub Bus with 15 DH rigs on top. Get enough Riders together and you may get treated to the Duce and a half. May not be the fastest shuttle up the hill but Coyote is the fun bus
    I'll jump on the Coyote vanwagon (pun intended). Best shuttle service in Moab, and very informative. Also, in the past, Chili Pepper Bike Shop has been very free with info (and they have a comfy couch and coffee bar)!
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

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    Definitely Coyote, they seem the most knowledgeable and the couple that runs it have a house up near Porc so they are pretty down with conditions throughout the day. 100oz and a 70 will be perfect. Anybody know why the spring at the bottom of bill canyon no longer runs?
    Bender to AZDog: I'm not the best person to give advice on not riding!

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by azdog
    Anybody know why the spring at the bottom of bill canyon no longer runs?
    When we rode by on our last trip up there, they had the pipe capped off and a sign saying that the water was contaminated with radioactivity and not to drink it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sixsixtysix
    When we rode by on our last trip up there, they had the pipe capped off and a sign saying that the water was contaminated with radioactivity and not to drink it.
    That's right! I was too focused on chicken wings and Woody's!
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    Quote Originally Posted by sixsixtysix
    When we rode by on our last trip up there, they had the pipe capped off and a sign saying that the water was contaminated with radioactivity and not to drink it.
    That water will give you super human powers!

    If you drink it, you can then ride back UP the Whole Enchilada.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by KavuRider
    That water will give you super human powers!

    If you drink it, you can then ride back UP the Whole Enchilada.

    I think you should try that on the next trip.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sixsixtysix
    I think you should try that on the next trip.


    ....

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    Quote Originally Posted by KavuRider


    ....
    It's like eagle powers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by azdog
    It's like eagle powers.

    LOL!

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    Quote Originally Posted by fiveo
    No chance for water on the way down that I know of. (other than a creek at the start of the ride) Others might know different. I doubt it. Even in early november I went dry with a 100z bladder. And yes there is climbing.

    One thing my group decided was thaat we did not prep for this ride. Next time we will all start our ride at Denny's and eat as much as we can. You will have time to digest it on the shuttle ride up. We all pretty much bonked. Hydrate the night before. A bladder and a few bottles should do you.
    fiveo:

    Are you sure about no water on the way down? Isn't there water in the Warner Lake campground that you ride through before climbing Hazard? If you called Coyote they might have some intel on that.

    TD

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    Quote Originally Posted by kendogg
    I've never had to pee so bad in my life.
    You're not alone on that score

    I wouldn't really call grinding up the hill in the Duce and a half a treat. Looks cool, but having to come to a dead stop to put it in first, over and over and over, gets a little old. And that was only up to Warner Lake, I could only imagine how long it would take up to Burro. I've done Coyote's Vanagons enough to know Porcupine Shuttles is a far better way to go. If you think they're cute, go for it
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    Are those 2 pice from the THC in 2006?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtbag
    You're not alone on that score

    I wouldn't really call grinding up the hill in the Duce and a half a treat. Looks cool, but having to come to a dead stop to put it in first, over and over and over, gets a little old. And that was only up to Warner Lake, I could only imagine how long it would take up to Burro. I've done Coyote's Vanagons enough to know Porcupine Shuttles is a far better way to go. If you think they're cute, go for it
    Dirt:

    You forget several main reasons to ride with Coyote:

    Not everyone is in a rush to do the ride;
    It is kinda cool to get to meet 30 plus people who are riding up in the deuce;
    Coyote keeps the shuttle cost as low as possible;
    And last but not least the person handing down the bikes on the back of the deuce is a lot better looking than the other shuttle drivers

    The main point is that with a lot of competition between all of the shuttle services the cost for the ride is a bargin. Without all the competition the cost of the shuttle would be higher. Every shuttle owner knows the cost should be higher, but no one can compete with Coyote because the owners work their butts off to keep the cost as low as possible.

    IMHO Coyote has forced all the other companies to run their shuttles as competive as possible and for that riders should be thankful.

    TD

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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc
    Dirt:

    You forget several main reasons to ride with Coyote:

    Not everyone is in a rush to do the ride;
    It is kinda cool to get to meet 30 plus people who are riding up in the deuce;
    Coyote keeps the shuttle cost as low as possible;
    And last but not least the person handing down the bikes on the back of the deuce is a lot better looking than the other shuttle drivers

    The main point is that with a lot of competition between all of the shuttle services the cost for the ride is a bargin. Without all the competition the cost of the shuttle would be higher. Every shuttle owner knows the cost should be higher, but no one can compete with Coyote because the owners work their butts off to keep the cost as low as possible.

    IMHO Coyote has forced all the other companies to run their shuttles as competive as possible and for that riders should be thankful.

    TD
    I think I might have been peeing just out of frame in that picture, as that looks like Brian on the left.
    .....

  30. #30
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    And last but not least the person handing down the bikes on the back of the deuce is a lot better looking than the other shuttle drivers
    TD; the only person I see handling bikes is wearing a blue shirt and grey shorts. That's a dude Traildoc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eatdrinkride
    TD; the only person I see handling bikes is wearing a blue shirt and grey shorts. That's a dude Traildoc.
    drink:

    Thanks for the input.

    TD
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    Trust me that was a chick, and she was looking good!

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    Quote Originally Posted by AzSpeedfreek
    Trust me that was a chick, and she was looking good!
    Freek:

    Thanks for the back up on that. I was beginning to think my eyesite was going as bad as my hearing.

    TD

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    Doc: I said the only person in those pics handling the bikes was a dude. I did see the chick. I was being facetious.

    So it seems we have a decision to make. Fast shuttle to get us to the top before it's 107 degrees at the river, or slow, POS, *M*A*S*H looking wagon with hot chick.

    It's a toss up but I'm leaning towards the former.

  35. #35
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    My friends just opened up a pizza joint next the the brewery called Paradox Pizza, check it out if you need some grub.

    About water, when we did this ride without the shuttle from town so water was crucial, I recall there being water before the start of Hazard in a lake and also an irrigation ditch as you finish up the first part of the singletrack (if you ride the entire route). If you ride Los Burros all the way down to PR, you should have plenty of options for water.

    I agree that you need to start from Los Burros, plenty of aspen await you along with some pretty cool free ride stuff that jumps the stream as you are zipping down from the pass. You will have to pedal up a little bit if you want to start from the top since it is singletrack to the pass. BTW, this is all coming from a XC nerd that absolutely loved this route, one of the best I have ever ridden.

    The route:





    Riding to Los Burros



    Los Burros


    Hope that helps...

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by azepicriderandrunner
    My friends just opened up a pizza joint next the the brewery called Paradox Pizza, check it out if you need some grub.

    About water, when we did this ride without the shuttle from town so water was crucial, I recall there being water before the start of Hazard in a lake and also an irrigation ditch as you finish up the first part of the singletrack (if you ride the entire route). If you ride Los Burros all the way down to PR, you should have plenty of options for water.

    I agree that you need to start from Los Burros, plenty of aspen await you along with some pretty cool free ride stuff that jumps the stream as you are zipping down from the pass. You will have to pedal up a little bit if you want to start from the top since it is singletrack to the pass. BTW, this is all coming from a XC nerd that absolutely loved this route, one of the best I have ever ridden.

    The route:





    Riding to Los Burros



    Los Burros


    Hope that helps...
    That's the route I want to do some day.
    So far, we haven't been able to make it to Burros Pass because of weather (still snowed in). We're going to try to go earlier this year to see if we can get up there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KavuRider
    That's the route I want to do some day.
    So far, we haven't been able to make it to Burros Pass because of weather (still snowed in). We're going to try to go earlier this year to see if we can get up there.
    Yeah, that is the tricky part about Los Burros. At 11k, it often gets snow pretty late in the season. Just a few weeks ago, Krein and I got dumped on while we were on the backside of the La Sals. The hail won the battle, we got freaking soaked.

    Dave C (Ionsmuse) and I did the route mid-September from town. I honestly think it was one of the best rides I have ever done, something like 15 hours, 90 miles, with 15k of climbing. I did it on a hardtail too, not recommended, but it can be done.

    Some of those jumps on Hazard/Burros are freaking amazing, the majority of them I just rolled or skipped. Again, XC nerd here speaking.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by azepicriderandrunner
    Some of those jumps on Hazard/Burros are freaking amazing, the majority of them I just rolled or skipped. Again, XC nerd here speaking.
    Yep, those jumps come up fast, you pass them before you know it! Definitely impressed with you guys doing that route from town!
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    Jiminy Christmas EpicRider! 70+ miles for you, and I'm worried about what shuttle is fastest up the hill. That must have been a heck of a day.

    When you refer to Los Burros are you meaning Burro Pass? Riding from Los Burros to Moab would be quite an epic ride, one I'm sure you'll do someday.

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    Nice AZepic your the man. The tops have been snowed in on my last visits aswell. You, Krien, Maddog & Ionmuse are the miles putting in fools.
    Ya those jumps on haz are fun, the best IMO is jumping the black top road from haz to KOKO. You need a look out for cars, its about a 25footer? Need to get back up there soon.
    SHITBIRD

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    Quote Originally Posted by eatdrinkride
    So it seems we have a decision to make. Fast shuttle to get us to the top before it's 107 degrees at the river, or slow, POS, *M*A*S*H looking wagon with hot chick.
    Drink:

    I think she was driving the white VW Vanagon, so you might reconsider. If your a hardcore rider you might try and crush azepic's time. I have started working out 20 hours a day so I can match his recent 100 mile ride from Sedona to Flagstaff and back to Sedona.

    TD

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    Quote Originally Posted by azdog
    Definitely Coyote, they seem the most knowledgeable and the couple that runs it have a house up near Porc so they are pretty down with conditions throughout the day. 100oz and a 70 will be perfect. Anybody know why the spring at the bottom of bill canyon no longer runs?
    Politics of course. It was shut down just based on having detectable coliform, which oddly enough has been present in the water for at least a decade based on water quality info http://ag.utah.gov/divisions/conserv...gramReport.pdf
    E. Coli is a health concern, but coliform is not (and E. Coli was NOT detected).

    I have it from a good source that the real reason is that the SE health dept. head retired and nobody wanted to be responsible for the spring as he had been for the past few decades. Also a seep had developed that has caused ice buildup in the winter that wasn't there in the past (increasing the "hazardous" conditions of the area that also includes heavy traffic and potential rock fall). The city of Moab may take over and re-pipe Lions' spring that sits above matrimony (which pumps out 30 gpm vs ~7/12 gpm at matrimony) to the campground across the street (which would help avoid traffic buildup and potential hazards of rock fall) and allow the demand for spring water to supply the masses at a later date (and likely after much red tape). Maybe they've already done this but I doubt it.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman
    Politics of course. It was shut down just based on having detectable coliform, which oddly enough has been present in the water for at least a decade based on water quality info http://ag.utah.gov/divisions/conserv...gramReport.pdf
    E. Coli is a health concern, but coliform is not (and E. Coli was NOT detected).

    I have it from a good source that the real reason is that the SE health dept. head retired and nobody wanted to be responsible for the spring as he had been for the past few decades. Also a seep had developed that has caused ice buildup in the winter that wasn't there in the past (increasing the "hazardous" conditions of the area that also includes heavy traffic and potential rock fall). The city of Moab may take over and re-pipe Lions' spring that sits above matrimony (which pumps out 30 gpm vs ~7/12 gpm at matrimony) to the campground across the street (which would help avoid traffic buildup and potential hazards of rock fall) and allow the demand for spring water to supply the masses at a later date (and likely after much red tape). Maybe they've already done this but I doubt it.
    Rocky:

    I always thought it would be cool to build an outdoor shower acroos the road from the spring. The discharge from the spring use to go into a drain that went under the road and discharged down the bank into the Colorado.

    It would be pretty simple to extend the drain line 5' or so that end of the pipe would be above the ground so that you could get your head under it. I would love to volunteer for the project if I wouldn't get arrested.

    I believe the current discharge pipe to the spring has been put underground and connected to the old drain pipe which crosses the road. What say you?

    TD

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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc
    Rocky:

    I always thought it would be cool to build an outdoor shower acroos the road from the spring. The discharge from the spring use to go into a drain that went under the road and discharged down the bank into the Colorado.

    It would be pretty simple to extend the drain line 5' or so that end of the pipe would be above the ground so that you could get your head under it. I would love to volunteer for the project if I wouldn't get arrested.

    I believe the current discharge pipe to the spring has been put underground and connected to the old drain pipe which crosses the road. What say you?

    TD
    I say go for it.

  45. #45
    mr. wonderful
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzSpeedfreek
    Are those 2 pice from the THC in 2006?
    yep!

  46. #46
    PMP,TAN,LAUNDRY
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman
    Politics of course. It was shut down just based on having detectable coliform, which oddly enough has been present in the water for at least a decade based on water quality info http://ag.utah.gov/divisions/conserv...gramReport.pdf
    E. Coli is a health concern, but coliform is not (and E. Coli was NOT detected).
    Great info. thanks!
    Bender to AZDog: I'm not the best person to give advice on not riding!

  47. #47
    Tucson, AZ
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    Quote Originally Posted by eatdrinkride
    Jiminy Christmas EpicRider! 70+ miles for you, and I'm worried about what shuttle is fastest up the hill. That must have been a heck of a day.

    When you refer to Los Burros are you meaning Burro Pass? Riding from Los Burros to Moab would be quite an epic ride, one I'm sure you'll do someday.
    Yeah, Burro Pass is what I meant. Los Burros to Moab would be pretty damn epic.

    Indeed the Burro Pass was a pretty epic ride, I was still pretty new to endurance mountain biking and had several mechanicals that the crew still jokes about. I think we all try to push the limit somehow, be it freeride jump or some epic ride, so rewarding to see that we can raise the bar. I hope to be back up in Moab late July, snow should be melted by then if you guys go then.

  48. #48
    .......................
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    Quote Originally Posted by azepicriderandrunner
    Yeah, Burro Pass is what I meant. Los Burros to Moab would be pretty damn epic.

    Indeed the Burro Pass was a pretty epic ride, I was still pretty new to endurance mountain biking and had several mechanicals that the crew still jokes about. I think we all try to push the limit somehow, be it freeride jump or some epic ride, so rewarding to see that we can raise the bar. I hope to be back up in Moab late July, snow should be melted by then if you guys go then.

    That ride was awesome. About the last time I dropped Azpic descending. We finished Porc right at dark, then had a 25 mph headwind riding south through town, and I suffered the hardest of the day trying to not get dropped going through town.

    The window for that ride is really narrow. Given how wet and cool spring has been, mid-August seems safest.

  49. #49
    mr. wonderful
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    Quote Originally Posted by helimech
    Nice AZepic your the man. The tops have been snowed in on my last visits aswell. You, Krien, Maddog & Ionmuse are the miles putting in fools.
    Ya those jumps on haz are fun, the best IMO is jumping the black top road from haz to KOKO. You need a look out for cars, its about a 25footer? Need to get back up there soon.
    Upper Body Bag is pretty fun too, especially if your idea of fun includes sh!tt!ng yourself
    Attached Images Attached Images

  50. #50
    mtbr member
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtbag
    Upper Body Bag is pretty fun too, especially if your idea of fun includes sh!tt!ng yourself
    Ya DB that spot is fun also. I cleaned that section until the right hander to the tree roots, its a toughy. That hole LPS or UPS sections are a blast. If I can recall I think Kenny hit his head on this section of trail once from a tree branch? Thanks for the pics DB. Oh ya, will be ordering that thru bolt mod soon .
    SHITBIRD

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