Results 1 to 25 of 25
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    2,450

    MEDL goes public!

    After 4 years of meetings, countless hours of hiking, exploring, and using a gps to map proposed trails we have finally got to here! This is BIG news and all of the proposed dh trails have been included!

    So this is the public comment period and we are going to need everyone that we can get to write letters to the Coco Ranger District in support of this action. There were several proposed trails that didn't make this initial cut and FBO will be posting some suggestions for letters very soon.

    There is also going to be a meeting on November 18th, please come out to show your support.

    Follow the link for the details.

    Flagstaff Biking Organization» Blog Archive » Huge Flagstaff District Recreation and Trails Planning! Meeting attendance and comment letters needed!

    Thank you all so much for your support over the last few years, I had some moments of weakness and without all of positive feedback and interest from all of you, Flagstaff friends, family and the local riding community I may have not made it through everything!

    I'm feeling very happy right now!

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    107
    Strong work! Much appreciated. Composing my letter now.

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    420
    Awesome news! Thanks for putting in the time and effort!!

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    2,450
    Thanks el poseur, the trails not included we feel are key components to the system and Anthony plans to post up suggestions so we may be able have them included. You might want to wait on the letter or you could even right two. Thanks man!

  5. #5
    dirt visionary
    Reputation: clockwork's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    6,207
    Awesomeness !
    Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of
    arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body.

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation: rockman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    3,574
    Good news indeed! The vision, proposed trails, and layout is impressive. Thanks for all the hard work RA and I hope the ones that got left off can make it back it in, especially Ginger and the Schultz flow trail. The scenic loop trail on the top of Elden is a great idea for hikers.

    The written comments will be important. There will definitely be some folks not in favor of the plan.
    "The world is worse when you are behind a keyboard. The world is best when you are behind handlebars." M77Ranger.

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    121
    Great job guys! I will be sending a letter as well as showing up for public comment meetings. This is very exciting, and I know just how hard you all have worked for this. Many thanks.

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    2,450
    I really would like to see the Onions connection be included. I think it's a key part of the overall system.

    The trails you mention RM as well, we really need those AM mid size bike level trails to create a fully complete trail system. I was just at a IMBA summit meeting and they emphasized the importance of having all levels and styles incorporated. If we can't meet all of the needs out there it's possible or even likely that renegade trail building may continue.

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation: rockman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    3,574
    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona View Post
    I really would like to see the Onions connection be included. I think it's a key part of the overall system.
    I agree. Upper Red Onion is a vital connector but lower Red Onion would get a complete reroute and tie into the rerouted Upper Oldham. With regard to the Lower Brookbank reroute I see that the routing has changed and now goes up the steep canyon that Ginger is located in. Thus, the reason Ginger is being decommissioned?

    And how ironic that that Night Ranger (aka Danzo) and the lower part of Lower Oldham are designated as part of the Flagstaff loop trail and slated to be class 4 (hardened surface urban trail). The Prodigal Son will be beside himself.
    "The world is worse when you are behind a keyboard. The world is best when you are behind handlebars." M77Ranger.

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    2,450
    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    I agree. Upper Red Onion is a vital connector but lower Red Onion would get a complete reroute and tie into the rerouted Upper Oldham. With regard to the Lower Brookbank reroute I see that the routing has changed and now goes up the steep canyon that Ginger is located in. Thus, the reason Ginger is being decommissioned?

    And how ironic that that Night Ranger (aka Danzo) and the lower part of Lower Oldham are designated as part of the Flagstaff loop trail and slated to be class 4 (hardened surface urban trail). The Prodigal Son will be beside himself.
    Yeah, I wonder if the Lower BB reroute is because of an owl pac? Hopefully not and we can go with the original proposal. I guess if it has to be than ok but maybe the changes to Lower BB and not having Ginger can be used as an argument for the importance of the front side trail Tomas scoped out and proposed. I don't think it was a flow trail but more of a technical am trail but I'm not sure. Either way I really want to see that one happen.

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    121
    However they reroute that area it will be a huge improvement. Lower BB is just a steaming turd as it is.

    Flagstaff has everything needed to be truly amazing. All that is lacking is a large scale plan with vision like this one.

    I just hope that certain segment of our local population that is bitter about every change made to flagstaff since they moved here in 1978 is smart enough to see that this is NEEDED to deal with our increasing trail use and population growth.

    Forest use and trail use is only going to increase. Might as well get ahead of it with an intelligent plan that addresses every type of user, instead of trying to play catch up after the fact when issues arise. I am giddy with anticipation to see how this plays out.

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation: rockman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    3,574
    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona View Post
    Yeah, I wonder if the Lower BB reroute is because of an owl pac? Hopefully not and we can go with the original proposal. I guess if it has to be than ok but maybe the changes to Lower BB and not having Ginger can be used as an argument for the importance of the front side trail Tomas scoped out and proposed. I don't think it was a flow trail but more of a technical am trail but I'm not sure. Either way I really want to see that one happen.
    There's a clear need for an getting the downhill traffic off of Schultz. Even if Chalkpaw's front side trail is two-way I suspect it will still see more downhill traffic than up (like Supermoto). Especially with Lower Brookbank being a less than 7% grade climbing trail. Seems like it will fly. I thought part of the agreement with the biologists was giving up pretty much most of the front side of Dry Lakes and Elden for the Owl Pack in the area (thus, losing Wasabi). There's also some owl issues with Jedi.

    I appreciate all the hard work FBO has put into this as well but I wonder if it's time to figure out how to get a crack crew of local trail builders paid similar to efforts in Jackson or Park City. Trails Consortium
    "The world is worse when you are behind a keyboard. The world is best when you are behind handlebars." M77Ranger.

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    2,450
    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    There's a clear need for an getting the downhill traffic off of Schultz. Even if Chalkpaw's front side trail is two-way I suspect it will still see more downhill traffic than up (like Supermoto). Especially with Lower Brookbank being a less than 7% grade climbing trail. Seems like it will fly. I thought part of the agreement with the biologists was giving up pretty much most of the front side of Dry Lakes and Elden for the Owl Pack in the area (thus, losing Wasabi). There's also some owl issues with Jedi.

    I appreciate all the hard work FBO has put into this as well but I wonder if it's time to figure out how to get a crack crew of local trail builders paid similar to efforts in Jackson or Park City. Trails Consortium
    The Dream.......

    Imagine what we could achieve if we had a paid crew in tune with the overall vision!

  14. #14
    Pivotal figure
    Reputation: kenbentit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    5,565
    I'm actually optimistic for the DH scene for the first time in years. Never thought I'd see this project actually move forward. Just goes to show what a few passionate riders with enough persistence can accomplish.
    Desert Sunset Calls/Upward, Pain, Perseverance/Welcome Solitude

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    186
    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona View Post
    After 4 years of meetings, countless hours of hiking, exploring, and using a gps to map proposed trails we have finally got to here! This is BIG news and all of the proposed dh trails have been included!
    Thanks for all the hard work you -- and others -- have done to get to this point.


    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    ...and the Schultz flow trail....
    Could someone elaborate on what this is?

    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    ...With regard to the Lower Brookbank reroute I see that the routing has changed and now goes up the steep canyon that Ginger is located in...
    The reroute doesn't even go near the original route. Not that this is a problem for me but if it's a completely different trail shouldn't it have a different name? Maybe New Brookbank?

    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona View Post
    ...Yeah, I wonder if the Lower BB reroute is because of an owl pac? Hopefully not and we can go with the original proposal...
    This may have answered the reroute part of my question above.

    Time to start working on my letter.

    -db-

  16. #16
    parenting for gnarness
    Reputation: chollaball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    5,567
    could you provide some sample letter text? I will gladly support the cause, but don't know the details enough to put together a meaningful letter. Thanks RA and all you guys in Flag for the efforts!

  17. #17
    bland
    Reputation: m77ranger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    1,250
    "Dear the forest service. I live in flagstaff and pay taxes and stuff and I like to get my shred on with my bros on the regular. I like riding all of the trails but some of my favorites were built on the down low. Some parts of these trails are really sustainable or whatever, they don't get washed out after monsoon season or when all the phx dudes ride them every weekend. Other parts of these trails blow. I think this proposal is a good thing because we can have some really fun trails on the mountain for everyone and can ditch some of the sucky stuff. It would be good to have a trail that I could ride my bike on up to the top of the mountain other than sunset or oldham, that's really hard. I pedal up the road sometimes but I don't like getting dusted out by the niles radio guys and hunters. Mt bikes these days are really really good and we can ride over some pretty challenging stuff. People want to go out and ride these types of trails, they can build them or you can. The balls are in your court. "

    Ryan - 8th grade.

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    2,450
    Quote Originally Posted by chollaball View Post
    could you provide some sample letter text? I will gladly support the cause, but don't know the details enough to put together a meaningful letter. Thanks RA and all you guys in Flag for the efforts!
    Yes. Anthony is putting something together to help with suggestions. Stay tuned and I will post it up asap.

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation: rockman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    3,574
    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona View Post
    The Dream.......

    Imagine what we could achieve if we had a paid crew in tune with the overall vision!
    Local paid leadership will yield more bang for the buck. FBO is all volunteer and in a little over a decade has done great things. But 4 or 5 trail days on a Sat with free Biff bagels isn't going to get this done. There's an enormous backlog of maintenance on the existing trails as well as a monumental effort that will be required to reopen Little Bear. As Chalkpaw has pointed out, the low-hanging fruit has been picked. Many of the proposed trails in MEDL are going to require explosives

    The question is, can Flag support a paid local organization?
    "The world is worse when you are behind a keyboard. The world is best when you are behind handlebars." M77Ranger.

  20. #20
    The .05 percent
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    519
    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    Local paid leadership will yield more bang for the buck. FBO is all volunteer and in a little over a decade has done great things. But 4 or 5 trail days on a Sat with free Biff bagels isn't going to get this done. There's an enormous backlog of maintenance on the existing trails as well as a monumental effort that will be required to reopen Little Bear. As Chalkpaw has pointed out, the low-hanging fruit has been picked. Many of the proposed trails in MEDL are going to require explosives

    The question is, can Flag support a paid local organization?
    I am optimistic on the situation, if we can ever get the green light to put shovels to earth I imagine there will be many who are very up to the challenge to create new NON XC trails. Don't get me wrong, I love the AZ trail and the west side of shultz is good for the most part, Supermoto not included, but it is time to build some real trail. I think that a big part of the success will lie in involving those from the Gravity side of things. For several years a small, covert group has built and maintained the DH and all mountain scene under the nose of the forest service. If given the opportunity I think that many more will turn out to help the cause... I just hope I am not in an old folks home by the time this starts.
    29'ers are the scientologists of the MTB world

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Chalkpaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    591
    I believe that the FlagBiking plan we presented to the USFS a year ago was a good one. Some, but not all of the trail suggestions we gave to the USFS are in the MEDL plan as seen today. If the MTBR crowd would like to go on a biking and hiking tour of the area to get a better understanding of the trail ideas and terrain, I would be happy to share my knowledge. I can cover the area between Mt. Elden Lookout road to the Schultz creek trail. Everything from Red Onion west. RA could possibly walk/talk about the DH stuff over by the reserves? I can go on Saturday or Sunday.
    There is a big difference between ripping and skidding.

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    2,450
    Quote Originally Posted by Chalkpaw View Post
    I believe that the FlagBiking plan we presented to the USFS a year ago was a good one. Some, but not all of the trail suggestions we gave to the USFS are in the MEDL plan as seen today. If the MTBR crowd would like to go on a biking and hiking tour of the area to get a better understanding of the trail ideas and terrain, I would be happy to share my knowledge. I can cover the area between Mt. Elden Lookout road to the Schultz creek trail. Everything from Red Onion west. RA could possibly walk/talk about the DH stuff over by the reserves? I can go on Saturday or Sunday.
    Happy to do so. Just send me a pm if interested.

  23. #23
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jdcatnau's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    491

    MEDL goes public!

    What about the skills park at Ft. Tuthill? Seems like a lot of projects going on with limited resources.

  24. #24
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Chalkpaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    591

    Forming a letter to the USFS

    Here is a google earth view with most of the trails that should be in the proposal. Some are system trails, or existing non-system trails, but there are several proposed trails that were not included in the MEDL proposal. We need letters that spell out the need to make a well thought out trail system that is valued by users, especially mountain bikers. I think that its important to tell the USFS that you support the FBO dry lakes plan in its entirety, including some trail concepts that were not included, like Ginger, the lower brookbank reroute (not the one shown on the MEDL map), Buckrut (which is an alternate trail to follow to Schultz creek. List as many trails as you think are important, both those that exist and those concepts I have in the image. If you have ideas for new trails in this area, let FBO know.

    I'll try to list and match the trails to the colors, starting from left (schultz creek pass) and moving right (the Y). My paths are not perfect in their location but its close enough to show the concept.
    Yellow= Sunset to Brookbank to Little Gnarly (existing system)
    Purple=climb3, existing, non-system, not on MEDL proposal
    Lite Blue=Red Onion, non system, not on MEDL proposal
    Orange Square=private property inholding
    Lite Purple/&blue=dry lake hills loop proposal, included in MEDL proposal
    Orange #1, Jedi, existing non-system trail, not included in MEDL proposal
    Orange #2=lower brookbank reroute proposal, included in MEDL proposal
    Pink= Ginger, existing, non-system, not included in MEDL proposal
    Green=Buck Rut, proposal, not included in MEDL proposal
    Brown, Schultz Creek trail, system.

    In the back of the photo is the proposed DH trails off of Mt. Elden LO road, including the reroute of upper oldham.

    So, my public comment letter will point out the need for an excellent mountain bike trail system that offers a number of riding options for the community at large. The FBO plan is important to support. The need to have a paid trail crew like Rockman points out is important. There is a real need for the USFS to work with the mtb community as a partner, not as a sidelined user. I believe that the current proposal the USFS has given us is not complete. We need to have them include as many trails as those that fit our riding needs.

    In my next reply, I'll have to provide the USFS some better descriptions of trail concepts (like Buckrut). Such as a trail that leaves from the top of the dry lake hills southern meadow (35.259003,-111.648285) and joins the Schultz Creek trail at the lower junction to Ft. Valley trails at (35.250657,-111.665073). In the coming day(s), Anthony at FBO should give some good ideas of how to form a good letter as well.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails MEDL goes public!-drylakehillstrailsideas.jpg  

    There is a big difference between ripping and skidding.

  25. #25
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    304
    Question... USFS shows Alternative A-B-C-D of which they will choose one after the comment period ends in January, is the trails plan only in D.

Similar Threads

  1. Fox planning on going public
    By Maluco in forum Shocks and Suspension
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 09-19-2013, 01:39 PM
  2. BLM is looking for public feedback....
    By screampint in forum Colorado - Western Slope
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 11-05-2011, 08:36 PM
  3. SRAM goes public
    By mtbmaniac in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: 10-11-2011, 09:04 AM
  4. Public Messages? Help
    By rlouder in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 06-16-2011, 10:22 AM
  5. A Public Thank You to Beanbag........
    By sjdiesel in forum California - Norcal
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 03-25-2011, 01:30 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •