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  1. #1
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    mbaa #2 how did you all do?

    landon and i got first and second. i got first and he was behind me by 20 seconds! great race. i need a beer now.
    Last edited by pwrtrainer; 07-22-2010 at 11:34 PM.

  2. #2
    Newbie...yeah that's it
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    I think I got second to last..............no seriously, Estrella kicked my ass today. (Beginner 30-39 Class)

  3. #3
    mad aussie
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    I finished second in the Marathon, I was leading until the last climb, but I really died on the last part of the lap and was passed at the end. I think 24HOP caught up with my legs at the end.That is a tough course to be out on for nearly 4 hours, my hands were numb claws at the end of the race.
    Our team had a first in Expert 19-39, two thirds in Beginner and women's Sport, fourth in Men's Sport 30-39 and my second so it was a good outing for us.

  4. #4
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    13th of 15 riders.....40 - 49 beg......I hate estrella I hate it I hate I hate it! then again maybe I should actually train and preride , I figure yesterdays race was next years preride!

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by doAZido
    13th of 15 riders.....40 - 49 beg......I hate estrella I hate it I hate I hate it! then again maybe I should actually train and preride , I figure yesterdays race was next years preride!
    Why do you hate it? It seems as though alot of people hate Estrella. I don't understand why though. For me it's def. better than Mcdowell which seems to be "popular". Mcdowell is pretty boring imo, might as well be road biking as groomed as those trails are.

    I did my first race ever yesterday and did pretty bad, 12th out of 27 but that's because I'm horrible shape. I had fun on that course though, I'll try some of the other cources in the race series but it bums me out that most of them require 0% technical ability. Isn't mountain biking supposed to be rough?
    JRA

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by eabos
    Why do you hate it? It seems as though alot of people hate Estrella. I don't understand why though. For me it's def. better than Mcdowell which seems to be "popular". Mcdowell is pretty boring imo, might as well be road biking as groomed as those trails are.

    I did my first race ever yesterday and did pretty bad, 12th out of 27 but that's because I'm horrible shape. I had fun on that course though, I'll try some of the other cources in the race series but it bums me out that most of them require 0% technical ability. Isn't mountain biking supposed to be rough?
    estrella is one of my fav courses. i hate the boring stuff at mcdowell. est is a tough race course but thats what its supposed to be. if it were easy i wouldnt do it.

  7. #7
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    Hey pwrtrainer, in which class do you race? You're a ss, right?

  8. #8
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    nope. geared sport 19-29. i dont think ill SS unless trying to get better on the hills.

  9. #9
    Salty Dog
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    Good job! Congrats Michael!

    Nice Job!

    It's amazing the progress you've made over the past year. Keep the rubber side down, brother!

    Tommy

    Quote Originally Posted by pwrtrainer
    nope. geared sport 19-29. i dont think ill SS unless trying to get better on the hills.
    Ventana El Rey - sweet 9er magic! OR sweet Serendipity Superfly 100

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salty Dog
    Nice Job!

    It's amazing the progress you've made over the past year. Keep the rubber side down, brother!

    Tommy
    ill never forget the first person to give me some "sage advice" and give me input about how to do the races. fix that leg so i can get schooled on the trails again!

  11. #11
    Too many Sedonuts...
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    4th place this time. Got 1st at McDowell. Oh well, probably shouldn't have downed all that beer and vodka the night before. Amazing how that affects your performance in the morning...
    When the world slips you a Jeffrey, stroke the furry wall.

  12. #12
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    eabos what group were you in? I would say 12th of 27 riders is pretty darn good. I rode this race on my 30 lb. 29er for the Dust Devil and came in at 1:23 in the beginner 30-39. This time I took my Stumpjumper and came in at 1:05 but 19th out of the 26 riders in the beg 30-39. Kind of disheartening after all that effort. I was shocked to see the winner get 53 minutes for that long loop.

    This is my first year racing.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by GueroAZ
    eabos what group were you in? I would say 12th of 27 riders is pretty darn good. I rode this race on my 30 lb. 29er for the Dust Devil and came in at 1:23 in the beginner 30-39. This time I took my Stumpjumper and came in at 1:05 but 19th out of the 26 riders in the beg 30-39. Kind of disheartening after all that effort. I was shocked to see the winner get 53 minutes for that long loop.

    This is my first year racing.

    Oh, was it 26 riders? I raced in the same class as you, beginner 30-39. My time was 59 minutes. I was a little disheartened myself after crashing around a sandy corner about 3 miles in. I worked to pass a few people and as I was picking myself up off the ground they all flew by me. It was weird crashing on a simple corner, I found out quickly that my new XC bike (spec. epic) doesn't quite rail the corners like my "bigger" all mtn bike. It was pretty much my 2nd ride on the epic. Still not quite used to it.

    It's funny, I originally signed up in the 19-29 class (I'm 29) but they made me switch classes because I'll be 30 in October. With my time I would have gotten 4th place if I could have stayed in the 19-29 class (of course there was only 7 people).

    Maybe I'll see ya at the White tanks race?
    JRA

  14. #14
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    I'll be there. I am shooting to be within 10 minutes of the leaders and maybe top 15 finish. I bet we do two of the inner loops out there. I am guessing of course but I bet the winning time is somewhere in the 42-46 minute range.

    I actually plan on going to all the races. Now that I quit my horrible 70hours/week job in Public Accounting and changed over to the Corporate world I have time to bike again.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by GueroAZ
    I'll be there. I am shooting to be within 10 minutes of the leaders and maybe top 15 finish. I bet we do two of the inner loops out there. I am guessing of course but I bet the winning time is somewhere in the 42-46 minute range.

    I actually plan on going to all the races. Now that I quit my horrible 70hours/week job in Public Accounting and changed over to the Corporate world I have time to bike again.

    Cool, good luck. I have only ridden the white tank comp. loops once and that was like 3 years ago. How long is each loop?

    Maybe I'll pre-ride it one off these days.
    JRA

  16. #16
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    I went out there maybe 5-6 years ago. It's too far for me to drive but according to Cosmic Ray's the inner loop is 5 miles and the tech add-on makes it 7miles give or take. If it's two inner loops then the time will be very fast.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by GueroAZ
    I went out there maybe 5-6 years ago. It's too far for me to drive but according to Cosmic Ray's the inner loop is 5 miles and the tech add-on makes it 7miles give or take. If it's two inner loops then the time will be very fast.
    And extremely boring..............I did a pre-ride for that course before the Dust Devil series, and didn't end up doing the race because I found the course boring.

    I just realized I raced against both Eabos and GueroAZ, I did terrible compared to you all. I think I finished second to last, that first climb killed me for the whole race. Are the race results posted yet?

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZSunGod
    And extremely boring..............I did a pre-ride for that course before the Dust Devil series, and didn't end up doing the race because I found the course boring.

    I just realized I raced against both Eabos and GueroAZ, I did terrible compared to you all. I think I finished second to last, that first climb killed me for the whole race. Are the race results posted yet?
    yes
    http://www.mbaa.net/results/2007race...CE2RESULTS.htm

  19. #19
    mad aussie
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    Quote Originally Posted by GueroAZ
    eabos what group were you in? I would say 12th of 27 riders is pretty darn good. I rode this race on my 30 lb. 29er for the Dust Devil and came in at 1:23 in the beginner 30-39. This time I took my Stumpjumper and came in at 1:05 but 19th out of the 26 riders in the beg 30-39. Kind of disheartening after all that effort. I was shocked to see the winner get 53 minutes for that long loop.

    This is my first year racing.
    Hmmm, I shouldnt tell you that we came through our first lap for the long loop at 48 minutes in the marathon! I was hoping that they wouldnt keep the pace up, but it kept going. I knew I was going to pay for 24HOP at some point with my heart rate staying in the 160 range most of the time (max 184) and that point surely came on the last lap.
    I think what is hardest about Estrella is riding it fast means your body takes a beating. Even with 4 inches of front and rear travel on my Rush it was pretty punishing. My hats off to the guy who blew past me on the last climb on a hardtail to win the race.

    Kevin

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Wombat
    Hmmm, I shouldnt tell you that we came through our first lap for the long loop at 48 minutes in the marathon!
    What the heck do you do to train to get 48 minutes on the long loop? I know I carry 10 lbs too much (170 at 5'9) but that will come down with time now that I have it again. That will probably give me at least a few minutes out there, but what are you doing to get yourself in shape for it. I have a co-worker who used to race, he said to train longer miles at less effort that I was most likely training at too high an effort. Instead of going all out on one lap he said take it down a notch and do two laps and use a HRM if possible and stick around 130-140.

    AzSunGod
    As long as you finish that trail you did pretty well. I am all about racing again, if the trail is somewhat boring I can deal with that. It should be an intensely contested race then. I will have to work a bit maybe I can be in the middle of it.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by GueroAZ
    What the heck do you do to train to get 48 minutes on the long loop? I know I carry 10 lbs too much (170 at 5'9) but that will come down with time now that I have it again. That will probably give me at least a few minutes out there, but what are you doing to get yourself in shape for it. I have a co-worker who used to race, he said to train longer miles at less effort that I was most likely training at too high an effort. Instead of going all out on one lap he said take it down a notch and do two laps and use a HRM if possible and stick around 130-140.

    AzSunGod
    As long as you finish that trail you did pretty well. I am all about racing again, if the trail is somewhat boring I can deal with that. It should be an intensely contested race then. I will have to work a bit maybe I can be in the middle of it.
    specificity....if you want to go fast....go fast. but you need a fitness base long before you rock the crap out of the intervals and high intensity rides. weight is not really too much of a factor. im 5'8 and 184 lbs, yet i can kick those kinds of times out as well. not bragging just pointing out. heres a shocker for you all...former smoker. if you want it youll get it.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by pwrtrainer
    specificity....if you want to go fast....go fast. but you need a fitness base long before you rock the crap out of the intervals and high intensity rides.
    I pulled a 1:05 at Estrella and a 1:07 at McDowell are those times enough to show a good enough base. I hear the word base thrown out a lot in cycling and haven't paid much attention to it. I really have no idea what it is. I should probably just do a search in the racing/training forum. Thanks pwrtrainer.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by GueroAZ
    I pulled a 1:05 at Estrella and a 1:07 at McDowell are those times enough to show a good enough base. I hear the word base thrown out a lot in cycling and haven't paid much attention to it. I really have no idea what it is. I should probably just do a search in the racing/training forum. Thanks pwrtrainer.
    if this is your forst year racing, then yes, but if you have been at it forever and nothing has changed, then your base might be lacking. starting in the summer/fall you can build a good base for a couple months and begin to build your anaerobic after the fact. great fitness as in flying wombat will take a few years to achieve. my best advice is to seek the joel friels mountain bikers training bible.

  24. #24
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    It is my first year at this. I will check out the Friels book. Thanks.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by GueroAZ
    It is my first year at this. I will check out the Friels book. Thanks.
    year one and that kind of time is right where you want to be. the sage advice tommy gave me is that racing will make you a better rider. wait a year from now and see the vast improvements you see. hit up sunrise a few mornings in the summer and you will be surprised how fast you get.

  26. #26
    Ouch, I am hot!
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    Quote Originally Posted by GueroAZ
    What the heck do you do to train to get 48 minutes on the long loop? I know I carry 10 lbs too much (170 at 5'9) but that will come down with time now that I have it again. That will probably give me at least a few minutes out there, but what are you doing to get yourself in shape for it. I have a co-worker who used to race, he said to train longer miles at less effort that I was most likely training at too high an effort. Instead of going all out on one lap he said take it down a notch and do two laps and use a HRM if possible and stick around 130-140.

    AzSunGod
    As long as you finish that trail you did pretty well. I am all about racing again, if the trail is somewhat boring I can deal with that. It should be an intensely contested race then. I will have to work a bit maybe I can be in the middle of it.
    I am no expert, although I raced several years on the road at the UofA and was roomies with two riders that turned pro (one mountain, one road). I was very familiar with their training systems

    My take on training is that the best training for doing something is to train doing that same something. Thus, if you want to train so you can ride as fast as possible for 1 1/2 hours, then you should train by riding as fast as possible for 1 1/2 hours and just keep doing that.

    When racing, I rode a ton and also did one day of sprint training and one day of interval training per week, but I am convinced that without a doubt the best training for racing was racing. As for criteriums, the best training is getting a sack and making it bigger.
    I AM JUST A JERK

  27. #27
    It's a Sledgehammer.
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    I second joe friel... but it's a real commitment.

    Hey mike, josh here, I rode with you and landon the other day at national.
    Any plans to ride thursday?

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by jperson
    I second joe friel... but it's a real commitment.

    Hey mike, josh here, I rode with you and landon the other day at national.
    Any plans to ride thursday?
    i could ride thursday after 12pm until 430 pm. work after that. landon gets back that night and then he will probably want to ride friday. by the way my bike is still sore from the speed you were pushing us on the dh. jesus you were fast! pm me your phone number so we can ride again. i know sunday well probably try again to do hawes in the am ish.

  29. #29
    mad aussie
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    [QUOTE=GueroAZ]What the heck do you do to train to get 48 minutes on the long loop? I know I carry 10 lbs too much (170 at 5'9) but that will come down with time now that I have it again. That will probably give me at least a few minutes out there, but what are you doing to get yourself in shape for it. I have a co-worker who used to race, he said to train longer miles at less effort that I was most likely training at too high an effort. Instead of going all out on one lap he said take it down a notch and do two laps and use a HRM if possible and stick around 130-140.
    QUOTE]

    Training to get faster is simple, there is a good training principle that "more is more unless its too much".
    You need to start by building a "base", this means a couple of months of steady riding at lower heart rates. I usually work around 130-140. I also put in longer rides on weekends. The idea is to build aerobic fitness and endurance which is important foundation for more intense training to come. I usually start adding in some intensity in January. I will do hard group rides on weekends on the road and interval training midweek. You could do your intervals for example on a canal path. I often use 2x20 minutes at threshold and 4x4 minutes at a very high effort level. What you should always aim to do is to add a little more intensity or time each week to your efforts, then after 3-4 weeks have an easy recovery week before building up again.
    There is no way around putting in your hours. I typically put in around 16-17 hours of riding in a typical week, some of my base weeks are closer to 20 hours. You do have to remember that I specialize in the longer distance races, for sport or beginner you can get by with a lot less hours. I know some local young guys who are looking to turn pro are often putting in 30 plus hours (but they dont have to work!)

    Kevin

    Kevin

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Wombat
    You need to start by building a "base", this means a couple of months of steady riding at lower heart rates. I usually work around 130-140. I also put in longer rides on weekends. The idea is to build aerobic fitness and endurance which is important foundation for more intense training to come. I usually start adding in some intensity in January. I will do hard group rides on weekends on the road and interval training midweek. You could do your intervals for example on a canal path. I often use 2x20 minutes at threshold and 4x4 minutes at a very high effort level. What you should always aim to do is to add a little more intensity or time each week to your efforts, then after 3-4 weeks have an easy recovery week before building up again.
    I actually have a polar watch with HRM and cycle computer. I stopped using it because the computer took the fun away. I will try it just using the HRM and the stopwatch. Instead of working too hard I will tone it down and ride longer. I will be up at McDowell Saturday for that Oakley thing. I will try running a few sport and long loops consecutively at 130-140 heart rate.

    Plus Performance finally has a front road wheel for 60 bucks so I can start using the roadie again. That is unless my rear wheel isn't true after that MS 150 wreck I had.

    Thanks for the info. I actually got that Friel book last night with a B&N gift card left over from Christmas last night. I will put the two together and try to make a schedule that works for me.

  31. #31
    mad aussie
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    Good idea about putting in miles on the road bike. I was talking to Tinker at 24HOP and he does about 90% of his riding on the road because it is less stress on the body and just gets out on the trails once a week for skills work. The road bike is better overall for endurance as well as interval training for the most part, but sometimes it is just fun to put in those epic mountain bike rides.
    I agree about the computer, they can actually be misleading, the only thing that counts is intensity and time. Try to go by hours, not by miles. I actually use a powertap fwheel for my road riding to give me another measurement of intensity so I can see how I am doing power output wise to previous efforts.
    Another good idea is to always sandwhich hard efforts with easier days, I typically now have hard efforts on Tuesday, Thursday and either weekend day for a hard group ride or race, which means Wednesday is a steady effort and Friday a very easy ride. Most people make the mistake of going too hard on their easy days and too easy on their hard days because they have not recovered enough. How much intensity you can handle depends on your experience. After 17 years of endurance training I can handle some high intensity three or more days per week, people with less base may only want two days at the most.
    Also work some recovery weeks into your training, I usually do this every third or fourth week and make sure you take some time after races are over to just ride for fun and leave the HRM at home. I see too many people get too structured all the time and then burn out and not even want to ride their bikes again.

    Kevin

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