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  1. #1
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    lap times at MMP?

    Thinking of doing some age group racing (40-49, probably Cat 3 or maybe Cat 2) this fall. Despite the nasty heat I've been having a blast this summer re-learning how to ride my mt. (and road) bikes and getting back in some reasonable shape. Definitely getting faster but I'm almost always solo, so all I know is, as someone's avatar on this forum states, I'm "faster than most, slower than many" or something like that. Or maybe I'm faster than many but slower than most.

    For those of you who race, or just ride hard recreationally but note your times, what kind of lap times do you turn out at McDowell Mountain Park? I'm most familiar with the Outer Loop at the Competitive Track and the Pemberton Trail (both CW and CCW). If you race, what category/age and where do you usually finish? What are generally considered to be fast times for the Cat 2 open age racers on these loops? I'm embarrassed to post my times after getting passed like I was standing still this morning slogging thru the beginning of Pemberton CCW but will pipe in with some eventually.

    Thanks,
    BBC
    Today's solid oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground. -Anonymous

  2. #2
    Meatbomb
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    I'm slow ... very slow.. Next

  3. #3
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    I have yet to record an entire lap time on the outer loop. I am so slow my computer thinks that I have stopped and shuts off.

  4. #4
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    On Pemberton I do 55 min to 1 hour, which I would consider fast but I don't know what category I will race in this year.

  5. #5
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    I don't race and I am definitely not fast but last weekend I decided to record my time on the outer loop at the comp loops and I did it in 1 hour 10 minutes. I felt like that was fast but not sure how that compares to the "fast" guys.

  6. #6
    Eleven - it's one louder
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    Wow!

    "...slower than most" seems to be my category based on those #s! Cat 3 here I come...

    Ethan, is that CW or CCW? I think I'm a little faster CW but possibly because I've only done CCW three times.
    Today's solid oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground. -Anonymous

  7. #7
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    Most of the time I hit Pemberton on a long ride (coming from the other side of the mountain) so its hard to say which way is faster for me because I don't have comparable efforts each way. I usually don't go too hard on Pemberton. My fastest time was CW though, but that was the only time I gave a good effort on the loop.

  8. #8
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    Conrad, check out http://theorangedog.net/mmptt/

    and search for what's your best S-T-L times @ MMP on this forum.

  9. #9
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    I too plan to race in the 40-49 Cat 3 class and I am in the far end of the group (49 yo). What I am thinking is to race a couple of the Muscle Milk Dust Devil Mountain Bike Series which will be 3 laps on the sport loop at MMP for a total of 9 miles. Tomorrow I will head out there to do a couple laps and then hit the PT (Love it). If anyone would like to join me I will be there about 7:30. Later than I would like but it is over an hour drive for me however very worth it. I will be the good looking guy in a white F250 riding an ugly green Kona Dawg.hope to see you there. If you can't make that I will be at San Tan Mtn Friday at 6:30 for some fun. Eric

  10. #10
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    I was told 17 minutes for the sport loop and 45 minutes for the Long Loop.

  11. #11
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    Oh yeah I forgot to add I rode the sport loop 2 weeks ago at race pace in 14 minutes. This was my first time riding it.

  12. #12
    livin' the dream......
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardcore Ken
    I was told 17 minutes for the sport loop and 45 minutes for the Long Loop.
    Right there with ya, do not recall my best STL combo though. Think my best Long Loop is just over 43 minutes and sport mid 16's. CCW pemberton in about 1:08-1:12.

  13. #13
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    MBAA series at MMP, 45 min lap times on the outer loop will put you in the faster half of cat 2, and top of cat 3. I'm not really sure on the sport loop, but 15-18 mins seems about right for a fast loop.

    There usually aren't as many racers in the Dust Devil Series, so the competition isn't quite as high.
    "Confidence is the feeling you have before you fully understand the situation".

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    You 40+ men better get your game face on cuz this old man is gonna tear it up! See ya out there training.

  15. #15
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    Nice! DId you like the loop? Doing the STL combo is a nice lap.

  16. #16
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    I haven't done the outer STL comp loop since the MBAA race in January, but I think I came by in about 53 and then the sport loop after was 13 or 14. That will put you in the upper third of your cat 3 group. A few weeks ago I did a CW loop (my first CW) in 1:12 and turned around and did a CCW in 1:12. I'm not sure how fast a single loop in either direction would be at race pace.

  17. #17
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    OK, a few questions. When you guys say STL, do you mean doing each individual loop consecutively or doing the 'Outer' loop, which is right turns to form one big CCW lap?

    @Ethan and AZBob: damn, that's pretty fast compared to me. I'm about 1:20 CW and a little slower CCW. Ethan, what Cat have you raced?

    @SlowbutSure: I'm looking at that Series 1 race at MMP, too. How do you know that it's 3 laps on the Sport track? All I could find was this from the official site: There are three combinations of loops for this event: The descriptions are given so that you will take a connector trail from one trail to the next, not doing each individually. If you are confused, look at the maps and it should be clear. Not clear, still confused! Also, would definitely like to hit the trail with you some time. I did the Outer Loop this morn, hit it once a week either Wed or Fri morn and Pemberton on the other day.

    I take about 1:15 to do an Outer Loop at what's a brisk pace for me but not really racing. I'll try some laps at a race pace but if I don't improve much I guess it's Cat 3. Hoping to upgrade my 21-year-old original wheelset that weighs about 50 lbs - rear wheel barely cranks out 10 revolutions when I give it a spin on the workstand. If I can get it done before the race, that should help shave a couple minutes!

    -BBC
    Last edited by BigBadConrad; 09-04-2010 at 08:00 AM.
    Today's solid oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground. -Anonymous

  18. #18
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    BBC, I sent an email and 3 laps on the sport loop is what I was told. This is not set in stone but that is what I was told. I'll be at the pump track tomorrow morning (Sat) to play on the jumps as I had fun on Thursday after hitting the sport look a couple times. Judging from the times posted I better get my act together cause i was closer to 20 mins than 15. See ya

  19. #19
    A plethora of pinatas
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigBadConrad
    OK, a few questions. When you guys say STL, do you mean doing each individual loop consecutively or doing the 'Long' loop, which is right turns to form one big CCW lap?


    I take about 1:15 to do a Long Loop at what's a brisk pace for me but not really racing. I'll try some laps at a race pace but if I don't improve much I guess it's Cat 3. Hoping to upgrade my 21-year-old original wheelset that weighs about 50 lbs - rear wheel barely cranks out 10 revolutions when I give it a spin on the workstand. If I can get it done before the race, that should help shave a couple minutes!

    -BBC
    STL = Start on Sport, take a right on the Tech and then take a right on to the Long. One big CCW lap.

    From what you are saying, CAT 3 would be a good place to start and then go from there. Upgrading a 50 lbs wheelset would be a great start!

    Good luck!
    Marty

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirthead
    MBAA series at MMP, 45 min lap times on the outer loop will put you in the faster half of cat 2, and top of cat 3. I'm not really sure on the sport loop, but 15-18 mins seems about right for a fast loop.

    There usually aren't as many racers in the Dust Devil Series, so the competition isn't quite as high.
    Hey Dirthead are you gonna race again this year...maybe do your trail time so you don't get hosed at the end?

    If so, are you going CAT 3 OR 2?

  21. #21
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    Last year I raced in Cat 3 40-49 and as I remember we ran the the outer loop plus the sport loop. I ran it in 1:05:54 and finished in 8th.

    You can still pull all the race results off the MBAA site from every race last year.

  22. #22
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    I think the McDowell Dust Devil Cat 3 laps were: Sport----Outer----Sport. I remember coming through 2x then in for the finish.

    I think Azokie laps were for MBAA?

    We did 3 "internal" laps at White Tanks last year for Dust Devil. I really hope they are not going to do 3 Sports@ McDowell. That may cement my decision to try Cat 2 for the Dust Devil Series!

  23. #23
    Eleven - it's one louder
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    oops...

    Just re-read my last post and I had been typing "Long" instead of "Outer" loop even though I know the difference. I've edited it now. So not quite as slow as it looked but still slow
    Today's solid oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground. -Anonymous

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by tjkm
    I think the McDowell Dust Devil Cat 3 laps were: Sport----Outer----Sport. I remember coming through 2x then in for the finish.

    I think Azokie laps were for MBAA?

    We did 3 "internal" laps at White Tanks last year for Dust Devil. I really hope they are not going to do 3 Sports@ McDowell. That may cement my decision to try Cat 2 for the Dust Devil Series!
    It was actually sport/tech loops instead of sport. I am with you, if its 3 sport loops, I will be trying my luck in cat 2 unless I can gain 5-10 lbs pretty quick so I can do rock crusher......those guys aren't slow either! My plan B is to flatten my competitors tires at the start! Then I could make the win look effortless with a good 5-10 minute head start!

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by azokie
    Hey Dirthead are you gonna race again this year...maybe do your trail time so you don't get hosed at the end?

    If so, are you going CAT 3 OR 2?
    Yep. Cat 2, 40-49. Ready to get my arse handed to me. Funny thing about the trail maintenance. The wife and I went to Tucson in March and she did trail maintenance on Mt Lemmon. I went riding instead. She still hasn't let me live that one down.

    You racing? The tentative schedule on mbaa's site looks interesting.
    "Confidence is the feeling you have before you fully understand the situation".

  26. #26
    Meatbomb
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    How big do you have to be to enter the rock crusher category ?

  27. #27
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    I used to get 16min on the sport loop on this ride until I broke it one day jumping off the top of the first nice hill you go down into the wash on the sport loop . Needless to say I was long overdue for a new bike as I had been riding that bike since 98 broke it in 2005.

    Last time I was out on my sxtrail I blew through it in 13.29 but that was just one lap of smashing it. Someday I need to get out and race for the fun of it if theres is such a thing.

    Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of
    arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjaghblb
    It was actually sport/tech loops instead of sport. I am with you, if its 3 sport loops, I will be trying my luck in cat 2 unless I can gain 5-10 lbs pretty quick so I can do rock crusher......those guys aren't slow either! My plan B is to flatten my competitors tires at the start! Then I could make the win look effortless with a good 5-10 minute head start!

    Sport/tech's-----you are correct! I like your plan with the tires. I will have to stay clear from you in the line up!!

    Philbo-I think it was 225 or 250lbs for rockcrusher. Don't quote me on that........

  29. #29
    Eleven - it's one louder
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    200 lbs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phillbo
    How big do you have to be to enter the rock crusher category ?
    ...according to the event site. I'm 10 lbs. too light to race the fat guys so I'll have to race the old guys. Is there a division for bald guys, too? Maybe there should be a fat, old, bald guys class and to qualify you have to be at least two of those things.
    Today's solid oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground. -Anonymous

  30. #30
    Meatbomb
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigBadConrad
    ... Maybe there should be a fat, old, bald guys class and to qualify you have to be at least two of those things.

    I'm in ... on all three counts

    49 yo , 220# and about a half inch too tall for my hair .

  31. #31
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    If that's the same hill I'm thinking of, I went wailing down that thing about ten years ago in a race out there and couldn't straighten out in the sand in the wash and ended up going head-first into a bush at the bottom. Nothing got broken or hurt, just got up and continued.

    It was sort of funny even then.

  32. #32
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    DCB's Dust Devil rock crushers need to be 200lbs plus. MBAA's need to be 210lbs plus. I could easily reach 200 but 210 would mean I need to either lift serious again or eat serious......again I was thinking it would be easy pickings in that class initially but I paid attention at last years races and there were some guys that not only out weighed me by a good amount, they would out pedal me too!! Maybe I can fake my way into the kids races and RULE there! Would that be sand bagging? Its not sand bagging if its just downright dishonest right?

    I was just over at MBAA's sight and next years race schedule is 11 races! The first is at papago park and XC isn't mentioned but it states 1/2 points. Not sure what that means exactly. There is a HILLCLIMB at four peaks too....I wonder what thats all about. Any ideas?

    http://www.mbaa.net/index.php?option...d=20&Itemid=35

  33. #33
    Meatbomb
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    200 is easy ..... 212 is my current weight and 210 has been my goal from 230..

    I'm a rock crusher

  34. #34
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    Yep Rock Crusher is 200 for DCB. Just remember that it is considered a Cat 2 category. The guys in Rock Crushers are pretty quick and the winners rival the times of the Cat 2 winners. On the up side the Rock Crushers Cat is usually smaller. It was a lot of fun racing.

    The MBAA schedule has 11 races but keep in mind they always drop like 1/4 of them...LOL. Should be interesting in the MBAA this year.

  35. #35
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    Three years ago I was racing CATIII 40-49 we did two races that year @ MMP the second one we did just the outer loop. I did a 48min and I got 5th. CATII did 2 laps and the winning time was under 1.5 hours. It's hard to compare your training times to race times. Every race I did was 5 to10% faster than I could ride while training. If you can do a training ride of 2 outer loops back to back in under 1:45 you could do fine in CATII.

    IMHO, it's more fun to be top 5 in CATIII than 21st out of 26 in CATII, and that's speaking from experience.
    Better than most, not as good as some.

  36. #36
    Eleven - it's one louder
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    course details

    OK, got an email response from the folks putting on the Dust Devil Series and I've started a new thread: Dust Devil Race Series course details

    For the Series 1 race, only the marathon, rockcrusher and Cat 2 & college B females get to do the whole outer loop. Cat 3 does not see the Long loop at all!
    Today's solid oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground. -Anonymous

  37. #37
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    I just saw the info you got from DCB, thanks for posting. It seems that now they are running shorter distances for everyone. Last year Rock Crusher did 2 sport tech long loops and now the shortened it.

    As far as the OP question, during the 24 of Fury my best lap time was 50:12 for the outer loop. I do race Rock Crushers.

  38. #38
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    there are some wicked Rock Crushers out there. I can do the Long Loop in about 55 minutes, but there were guys who passed me within the first couple of miles or so, we were on 0:30 (maybe 0:20?) increments if I remember correctly. No "slim" pickings in that crowd.

    and by the way, I am hoping to revamp and improve the MMPTT section soon - hoping a project at work ends at the end of this month and will be able to improve it then. Sooner if I can, but we'll see.

  39. #39
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    So I ran the rock crusher course this morning and completed the S/T/L and the S/T loops in 1:04:40 starting and finishing at my truck by the restrooms. I did the S/T/L in 47:49 (time as I popped out into the parking lot) which is a personal best.

    Now here's my prediction for the RC class: the winner will complete the course in 1:00 to 1:01 meaning I will be lucky to finish top 5. Whats funny is that I will be right at 200 so I don't get to whine about having up to 60lbs more to carry around over those that beat me like I did last year in cat 3. So I have no more canned excuses for my feable mind, I just have to come to grips with the fact that I got flat beat! I could hope that 5 or less sign up for the class....then I get a top 5 for sure! I wonder if I could use my KX250F instead of my specialized. OMG that would be an absolute blast!! Just thinking out loud here.

  40. #40
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    BTW, I did a warm-up around the tech loop and that second drop-in at the start is a bit rain rutted as you drop in, more than I recall in the past so just a heads up to choose your line with a bit more caution.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirthead
    Yep. Cat 2, 40-49. Ready to get my arse handed to me. Funny thing about the trail maintenance. The wife and I went to Tucson in March and she did trail maintenance on Mt Lemmon. I went riding instead. She still hasn't let me live that one down.

    You racing? The tentative schedule on mbaa's site looks interesting.
    Dirthead, I'll have to look at the schedule and see how it pans out. I'm planning on hitting a couple of the Dustdevil races, probably won't be able to do the whole MBAA schedule. I'm sure I'll see you around...

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