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  1. #1
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    Help me out with Phoenix metro trail designation...

    From the following trail systems, what do you consider a XC, trail, all-mountain and DH (designation for most or main parts of the trail, excluding the hairy sections)

    1. Trail 100
    2. McDowell mountain - competitive tracks and Pemberton
    3. Sonoran Preserve
    4. Deem Hills
    5. Pima/Dynamite
    6. South Mountain - National
    7. South Mountain - Classic
    8. F.I.N.S.
    9. Black Canyon Trail system
    10. Cave Creek Park/Spur Cross

    Feel free to add more trails.

    Thanks, just want to check if I'm riding the proper equipment
    or if I should raise my life and disability insurance benefits.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by metalaficionado View Post
    From the following trail systems, what do you consider a XC, trail, all-mountain and DH (designation for most or main parts of the trail, excluding the hairy sections)

    1. Trail 100
    2. McDowell mountain - competitive tracks and Pemberton
    3. Sonoran Preserve
    4. Deem Hills
    5. Pima/Dynamite
    6. South Mountain - National
    7. South Mountain - Classic
    8. F.I.N.S.
    9. Black Canyon Trail system
    10. Cave Creek Park/Spur Cross

    Feel free to add more trails.

    Thanks, just want to check if I'm riding the proper equipment
    or if I should raise my life and disability insurance benefits.
    I would label them all EXTREME DH. Just ride them and have fun on your Clunker.

    But seriously, I have ridden all of them except for 6 and 7 and would consider them (in my novice opinion) as XC. As for 6 and 7 I will leave that for the others... I have seen that there is a shuttle that takes people up to ride down and I would guess that would be more AM/DH.

    Again, just have fun and ride within your abilities, that's my take anyway.

  3. #3
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    T100 proper, DC, deems and almost all BCT are XC. I can't speak to some of the others.
    That being said, there are parts of the PMP where T100 is is AM to me.

    Ride what you like. Have fun doing it. If it gets too hairy, walk a section and then bring armor the next go round!
    XC vs AM is all just a frame of mind on some of these, and you will get TONS of different opinions.
    I think I'm not as good as I thought.

  4. #4
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    Hey thanks guys. I ask cuz' I don't to waste a day on a big trip to say SOMO just to find out that I brought knive (HT) to a gun fight (6inch FS).

    ... and I hate hiking, especially when it involves wheeling a bike along, it feels so defeated.

  5. #5
    Meatbomb
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    1. Trail 100 - XC and AM
    2. McDowell mountain - competitive and Pemberton - XC
    3. Sonoran Preserve - XC
    4. Deem Hills - XC
    5. Pima/Dynamite - XC
    6. South Mountain - National - DH
    7. South Mountain - Classic - Desert Cassic= XC
    8. F.I.N.S. - XC
    9. Black Canyon Trail system - XC
    10. Cave Creek Park/Spur Cross - XC



    Bring the XC bike.

  6. #6
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    Ok thanks, that helps.

    When I search this stuff, all I come up with is the differences and explanations of xc, trail and all mountain BIKES. No where I can find a definition of how they define the trail.

    So I guess the idea of doing SOMO loop - west on desert classic and east on national on my 29er HT is out...

  7. #7
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    I respectfully disagree with Phillbo rating National as DH. Natty has a lot of peddaling even going down. I have never really DH'd in my life but I've ridden natty a hundred times up and down. Tough trail up? Yes. Fun with optional drops going down? Yes. Rideable on any bike? Yes.

    The real D/H trails out at SoMo like Holbert and Geronimo I've also ridden on my trail/AM bike. I just went much slower in the chunk then the true DH folks. But I'd say those are the only DH trails out there. Desert Classic is desert XC, like most of the trails listed.

    Best value for the buck for the above average rider who is not ready for the big chunk of theh DH trails out there is National. You can take Mormon Loop up rather than Natty to make life easier. If you are a intermediate to below intermediate (by AZ standards) rider then Natty might seem like a bit much. it's an advanced trail in many places...but hey...i walked those sections for a long time and still had a blast.

  8. #8
    Meatbomb
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    Lots of reading but if you scroll through here you can find good intel on all the trails you listed:

    VISITORS READ HERE FIRST: Local riding advice

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by metalaficionado View Post
    Ok thanks, that helps.

    When I search this stuff, all I come up with is the differences and explanations of xc, trail and all mountain BIKES. No where I can find a definition of how they define the trail.

    So I guess the idea of doing SOMO loop - west on desert classic and east on national on my 29er HT is out...
    Check out this loop from mtbikeaz.com 'cirque de Somo'
    Cirque de SoMo - Mountain biking trip | EveryTrail
    I've been wanting to do it now that the weather is nice, 40-50 miles, counterclockwise around the Mt.
    I think I'm not as good as I thought.

  10. #10
    No Clue Crew
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    Cross Country:
    1. Trail 100
    2. McDowell mountain - competitive tracks and Pemberton
    3. Sonoran Preserve
    4. Deem Hills
    5. Pima/Dynamite
    7. South Mountain - Classic
    8. F.I.N.S.
    9. Black Canyon Trail system
    10. Cave Creek Park/Spur Cross

    All Mountain
    6. South Mountain - National

    Downhill
    1a. Hairball
    1b. Cheesegrater
    6a. Holbert
    6b. Geronimo
    6c. 24th Street
    6d. 32nd Street
    6e. Old Man

    Quote Originally Posted by GR1822 View Post
    That being said, there are parts of the PMP where T100 is is AM to me.
    Agreed with the caveat that those trails are technically not Trail 100.

    Quote Originally Posted by eatdrinkride View Post
    Best value for the buck for the above average rider who is not ready for the big chunk of theh DH trails out there is National. You can take Mormon Loop up rather than Natty to make life easier. If you are a intermediate to below intermediate (by AZ standards) rider then Natty might seem like a bit much. it's an advanced trail in many places...but hey...i walked those sections for a long time and still had a blast.
    As a note on National v Mormon, don't anyone think Mormon is "easy". It's just less technical than National. You're still climbing a good amount in a relatively short distance.

  11. #11
    How much further ???
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    Quote Originally Posted by metalaficionado View Post
    Hey thanks guys. I ask cuz' I don't to waste a day on a big trip to say SOMO just to find out that I brought knive (HT) to a gun fight (6inch FS).

    ... and I hate hiking, especially when it involves wheeling a bike along, it feels so defeated.
    I understand asking to determine which bike you would like to bring but honestly you can bring either to any trail you listed. Dont let todays marketing tell you that you need to ride bike A instead of bike B in a particular instance.

    I ride a 1995 GT avalanche with V brakes in the rear, 9mm axle, 8 speed, no tapered head tube, internal bottom bracket and on and on. Todays marketing would lead you to believe Im riding a rubber band of a bike incapable of climbing or decending. Just not true. Ride what you want too.
    “Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did." Mark Twain

  12. #12
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    I would say that Thunderbird park preserve would have some sweet AM trails, but there are waaaaaay to many hikers. It would be nice if, cyclists could have the trail system for 1 day a month.

    Where exactly are cheesegrater and hairball on T100? Is one of them by the power line pole with a Specialized "S" logo carved into it?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhaseSpace168 View Post

    Where exactly are cheesegrater and hairball on T100? Is one of them by the power line pole with a Specialized "S" logo carved into it?
    Hairball and cheesegrater are on the east side of the Dreamy Draw parking lot (where Northern dead ends near 16th st.)
    Here's a link to a great PMP map
    http://mtbikeaz.com/wp-content/uploa...%2012-3-07.JPG
    The area that your asking about is commonly referred to as Disneyland.
    I think I'm not as good as I thought.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Douger-1 View Post
    I understand asking to determine which bike you would like to bring but honestly you can bring either to any trail you listed. Dont let todays marketing tell you that you need to ride bike A instead of bike B in a particular instance.

    I ride a 1995 GT avalanche with V brakes in the rear, 9mm axle, 8 speed, no tapered head tube, internal bottom bracket and on and on. Todays marketing would lead you to believe Im riding a rubber band of a bike incapable of climbing or decending. Just not true. Ride what you want too.
    YOu think my wimpy 29" wheels and 80mm travel of front shock can withstand national? I am cool with that, I don't look for comfort when I ride, although I try to avoid pain (other than muscle burn)

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhaseSpace168 View Post
    I would say that Thunderbird park preserve would have some sweet AM trails, but there are waaaaaay to many hikers. It would be nice if, cyclists could have the trail system for 1 day a month.
    You just have to go out there at the right time... I ride out there all the time and rarely see more than 4-5 hikers.. Weekdays around 2:30 pm is a great time to ride out there and minimize hikers. Agreed they are some great AM'ish trails, I really enjoy them... Don't let the hikers scare you away...

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by metalaficionado View Post
    YOu think my wimpy 29" wheels and 80mm travel of front shock can withstand national? I am cool with that, I don't look for comfort when I ride, although I try to avoid pain (other than muscle burn)
    Why not? If not just HAB. I will be taking my 26" hardtail with V-brakes and 100mm fork on National some time this winter. Not sure when, but when I do it probably will be with my friend who has 26" hardtail with V-brakes and a 80 mm fork and my other friend with 29er hardtail and 80 or 100 mm fork. I expect a few areas to be too nasty to ride (possibly the waterfall), but the bulk if it will be fine.

    The question is not so much about the bike, but are you as a rider willing to take on national?
    Joe
    2003 KHS Alite 4000 26" Hardtail - XC, All mountain, blah blah blah.. I just ride.

  17. #17
    EDR
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    YOu think my wimpy 29" wheels and 80mm travel of front shock can withstand national?
    There are wheel grabbers on every trail that can taco a 29 or a 26 inch wheel. The bigger equation is how 'steep' your bike is or isn't. The more relaxed the geometry the better for trails like National. It just makes not going OTB a lot easier. I started riding out there on my 4'' xc bike with a 71 degree H/A. Learned a lot. Went over the bars a lot. Got a new bike with a much more relaxed H/A and then the fun really started..it just boosted my confidence a ton.

    Just be prepared to walk some sketchy stuff until you become a regular out there. With that mindset you'll have a blast. It's a super fun place to develop technical skills if you are into developing that kinda stuff. You can ride out there for years and still work on something each time out.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by metalaficionado View Post
    YOu think my wimpy 29" wheels and 80mm travel of front shock can withstand national? I am cool with that, I don't look for comfort when I ride, although I try to avoid pain (other than muscle burn)
    Back in '93 I rode National a ton on a 26" hardtail with Manitou II elastomer forks. Little tires and cantilever brakes. You'll be fine.
    Work to Ride - Ride to Work
    There's no such thing as bad weather, just bad clothing...

  19. #19
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    thanks

  20. #20
    My other ride is your mom
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    If your ride does not have any HAB, then the views probably suck.

  21. #21
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    Lol, Disneyland.

    My favorite trail nick name was hearing Geronimo called sex offender, because of the boy scout camp at the bottom.

  22. #22
    No Clue Crew
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    Then my rides are all EPIC 'cause I push my bike as much as I ride it...

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