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  1. #1
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    Have You Ridden Highline Lately???

    A couple of us went out and rode Highline today to check out all the new improvements. As we rode the front side we noticed small sections there had been some improvement done to make small sections easier to ride. Sounds like something I would do if I couldn't ride it, but it looks like someone out working on it is a lesser skilled rider than me and I am happy if they are happy about what they did.

    After reaching the high point we hung out for a while and there was a rider coming up from the backside. He said he was doing the ride as an out and back from the drainage at the bottom of the backside. This guy was hardcore for sure and I had to admire his energy level.

    After leaving the top you ride down to the Trancept intersection where there is now a pretty cool one foot high berm to allow you to rail that section w/o loosing any speed on the previous downhill section. Know that I know that berm is there I am going to rip that section.

    As you get down to the slickrock section there is now a HUGE rock basket with directional arrows showing the 90% left turn off the lower saddle. Now if you blow by that turn and get lost you are a moron not a touron.

    Once your down on the lower sections of slickrock there are now white painted bidirectional arrows about every 120'. I am a paint guy so for me they were really nice and I think they will help the navigationally impaired group feel their way though the slickrock area.

    Once we got to the starting point of the now double black diamond section, I quickly dropped my trusty seat post to its lowest position and rolled down the first steep spot. For some reason it looks like that first rollin section is getting beat up. I still have reserved skill to roll that spot, but it seems to be getting a little harder due to it getting more torn up.

    As I pulled up to the next rollin squeeze section I was feeling a few butterflys. At this point you kinda got to confident in your bike skills. I rolled in nicely and when I got to the rocked in section I was totally under control ( at this point I always wonder if Phil and Jennifer ride this spot), but the rocks below looked real dusty and might be slippery than what I had ridden on my last ride.

    Fortunately I rolled through the rocked in section nicely because when I hit the dirt below I got bucked a little. It seems like t he dirt below is eroding somewhat and I got bucked a little more than I had ever experienced.

    The right and left switch back were cool, but it seems like they are getting eroded more than I have seen them previously. After the switchbacks you get in the off camber somewhat steep section. Due to the dirt switchbacks fro above it seemed like the off camber rock was very slippery.

    As you get to the bottom of the off camber section the trail mellows to the right hand turn to the really scary now chunked up section. Something seems different about this short steep rollin to the hard 90 degree right hand turn. I made the drop, but it seemed like I was bucked and really needed to pull out all my remaining skill to do the right hand 90 degree turn to the now really off camber chunky droppy section. I stayed right, but it looks like some people ride the left outside edge.

    That spot I pulled out all my skill and bounced through there looking like I was a bronco rider. Anyway once you get to that point the skill level to ride the rest of the downhill section is reduced somewhat. That was true previously but now you get the adrenaline rush for the remaining downhill. Now that the trail is routed entirely on steep slickrock it looks like it will be awhile for the tail to get cleaned of all the small rocks and dirt on the slickrock that makes the trail a little harder to ride than the old switchback section.

  2. #2
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    Ugh.

  3. #3
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    A little harder I think is ok. I still don't love the awkward 90 degree right turn, a little fill and widening and this line could be smooth. It is kind of a flow killer and could be sweet. Just sayin. I am personally loving the new re-route, rides SO good! Thanks to all of those involved making this happen. Now......can we please remove all of the molesting poking and prodding brush on that climb? I hate going for a good ride but still getting cut up by the brush. Can you imagine how much that line will be overgrown in another year or two? Having that clean line filled with sun light will just be filled so quickly with growth I just don't understand why forest management folk would think it's ok to create a line with so much growth already closing in on the newly excepted trail. Just sayin.......

  4. #4
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    The new section is rad. You can totally rail the new right hand turn and it almost feels like a wall ride!

  5. #5
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    I rode it yesterday and liked the new re-route, the wall ride is killer! Someone has "paved" the exposed section, oh well. I would rather have the bushes cut back to accept my wide bars, then having more of the trail "paved". I also think that first roll in is worse since they "fixed" it. Should have left it alone, it is very rough now, seems sketchy with all of those rocks piled up. Just my 2 cents. I took an out of towner on it and he was screaming of fun the whole time!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by m77ranger View Post
    The new section is rad. You can totally rail the new right hand turn and it almost feels like a wall ride!
    77:

    The new backside alignment is the most technical section of trail the Conconino National Forest has ever allowed. My guess is was sanctioned to let the 3%'er know the FS is working with them, and want to have them support the future trail actions they will be recommending.

    I think you will agree the new backside alignment is maintainable and not really sustainable. This is the type of trail you and ra are proposing to the FS in Flagstaff.

    Now you will be able to showcase this new alignment to the Flagstaff organization. The success of this trail will definitely be helpful to your success or your detriment.

    TD

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    77:

    The new backside alignment is the most technical section of trail the Conconino National Forest has ever allowed. My guess is was sanctioned to let the 3%'er know the FS is working with them, and want to have them support the future trail actions they will be recommending.

    I think you will agree the new backside alignment is maintainable and not really sustainable. This is the type of trail you and ra are proposing to the FS in Flagstaff.

    Now you will be able to showcase this new alignment to the Flagstaff organization. The success of this trail will definitely be helpful to your success or your detriment.

    TD
    None of this matters, I don't think you have any idea where we are at or what is happening and I find your banter very amusing. Keep talking.........

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    77:

    The new backside alignment is the most technical section of trail the Conconino National Forest has ever allowed.
    More so than Hangover?

    I haven't had much time to ride in the last couple of months so Hiline and Hangover will be like new trails to me.
    The secret to mountain biking is pretty simple. The slower you go the more likely it is you’ll crash.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by woahey View Post
    More so than Hangover?

    I haven't had much time to ride in the last couple of months so Hiline and Hangover will be like new trails to me.
    Woahey:

    Here is my take on Hangover (Cow Pies + Hangover) compared to Highline (Hiline) since you last rode it:

    Hangover:

    99% of the trail is still the same. There has been a number of changes done on the old Cow Pies trail. Some changed the character of the trail by dumbing it down to allow lesser skilled riders like me and you to ride those previous unrideable sections.

    There is a new right hand climbing turn that has been incorporated into the trail that may or my not be rideable by you. I don't think I have the conditioning and cardio to make the new turn without resting, but maybe you do. I just heard from a reliable source that it is rideable by 40% of the 70% so maybe you fall into that group.

    If yo want to I will go out there with you and will do a video of you riding it with or without stopping.

    After the turn the trail maybe dumbed down a little, but I don't care if it was because I could barely clean that rock step previously and if it is easier I can live with that.

    I don't know what has been done once you get to the saddle. I doubt they did much to the saddle it is a pretty solid piece of rock and is not subject to much erosion (damage) on the left (west) side.

    Once you roll into the dirt on the left side is where you have significant erosion taking place. That rollin use to be pretty easy, but it is getting more difficult by the 50%'ers. Not sure what Lars has planned there. IMHO it will need to be armored like the rock ramp (on the southwest highpoint of the trail) built by the A Team years ago.

    I am not sure if the northeast side of the saddle is going to be made more rideable by the 70%'ers. It would be an easy thing to do, but it is more like an entrance exam to let riders know you better be a highly skilled rider if you think you are going to clean the rest of the ride.

    After the point I think the character of the trail is the same as it has always been. The last time I rode it there were two blown out spots. One oc a climbing section and one on a level left hand turn. Both of those sections could be easily fixed with about three manhours of work. The rock necessary to fix those sections is not as close as on would like but it should be accessible by a determine trail maintenance person.

    I have no idea what the archeological clearance is width wise on that trail and the rock material maybe outside the boundary. There also might be a Sight issue concern because the view from those fix areas is very significant and the tribes might not feel comfortable about white guys stopping and working at those spots.

    There needs to be some communication with the tribal leaders to see what their comfort level with such a project. Also last night Travis advised us that there are artifacts everywhere in Sedona so that spot could be covered with chips.

    Ok onto Highline. There has obviously been work done on several places working up to the upper viewpoint. It must have been done by Plumber Phil. I can't imagine him letting anyone else work on that trail. Everything done was a OK with me. It has made it slightly easier for me to ride so I am good with that, and since I think it is Plumber Phil approved, I am totally good with that.

    Once you get to the viewpoint and start down the trail to the lower saddle, someone (Phil?) has cleaned up the trail so it is faster to ride. Someone (maybe Phil) has put in a one foot high berm on the Transcept intersection turn. That berm is totally cool so now I can ride that turn at least 6 MPH faster. I would say guys like Lars will hit that turn doing 30+. From that point the trail rips. It is much more flowy and much faster. You can carry a lot more speed and very little pedaling. Kind of a downhillers dream come true.

    After getting through the dirt section you are on the slickrock. Obviously nothing has changed there, EXCEPT PAINT. Yahoo!!!!!!!! We now have paint not tape, what a concept. AND it is NICE PAINT. Whoever did that painting my hat is off to you it was well spaced, not in your face but gave the out-of-towner's a good line to follow.

    OK everything is pretty much the same the paint guy took the twisty slickrock section and directed riders the way I like to ride that section, so I am cool with that, but I wonder what the riders are going to do who like the other faster line. Spots like this drive Jennifer and her boyfriend crazy. They want riders on their lines not off their lines. Since this is a slickrock section riders can ride where ever they want very easily.

    For example Lars will be out doing his KOM thing at Mach 6. I can guarantee you he is taking the fastest line. He will be off the paint for sure. I am totally cool with that, but I think the jury is out with Jennifer and you know who.

    After the cliff area everything is the same except for the cool paint not tape (oh thank you God). when you get to the steep rollin area you get the heads up with TEMPORARY well thought signage that I highly approve of informing you that the trail is under construction and it is rated as double diamond. I totally agree with the signage. If it stays TEMPORARY, I can live with that because it is better than NO SIGNAGE. I don't care if it isn't FS approval and there is nothing like it in the fricking manual. Someone smarter than me has decided it works (there really is a God).

    OK this is where the riding experience is changing slowly but surely. I may be wrong and maybe rockman will set me straight, but the rock surface in this downhill section is different than Hangover. Some my dounut maker father back ground education the rock has a lot of cracks in it it may or may not be the same formation as the Damifino saddle, but it has a lot of cracks which causes it to BREAK over repeated riders skidding down it.

    Like I said in a previous post it hopefully will be maintainable but not sustainable. The trail from this point down is going to constantly more fun to ride by the 3%'ers, I think the jury is out on the other 97%'ers. Certainly riders like Jennifer and her boyfriend are never going to clean the current or future backside fun fest.

    Due to the fractured rock the backside is going to need alot of maintenance to keep it close to it's current character. I believe the FS has made a deal with the devil on this section of trail. They thought I was a problem this section of trail is going to possibly be their worst nightmare.

    As usual I could be wrong, but as the rock keeps fracturing it will get more difficult for the aggressive masses to ride. Obviously there are going to be some crashes and there are going to be some really serious crashes.

    You have now taken the easier switch backs out of the equation and increased the grade of parts of the trail by over 5%. You are out of the recommended limits of the FS handbook because you made the deal with the devil. This is cool for the 3%'ers. I don't know who heads that group, but Lars, Chewy (when he recovers), Tex, Jason, Woahey, Danny, Jackie, Dante, Trixy, etc. are going to always rip that section. the rest of us who knows, but for sure we want to give it a try to our potential detriment.

    Anyway I recommend that they store a backboard close and an emergency kit (Lar's you can get that done) close by because it is not an if it is going to happen for sure. Lar's did up a splint for Chewy with a tree branch, so that work great, but SAR is going to want to use a back board on anything like a broken leg up.

    OK once you make it to the lower wash everything is the same. Hope that helps.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    Woahey:

    Here is my take on Hangover (Cow Pies + Hangover) compared to Highline (Hiline) since you last rode it:

    Hope that helps.
    Huh?

    I've realized I have to just stop working 8 days a week and get out and ride more. Thank you, I really needed some sort of excuse to take more than 2 half days off a week, regardless of what is happening at work.
    Last edited by woahey; 01-19-2013 at 02:04 AM.
    The secret to mountain biking is pretty simple. The slower you go the more likely it is you’ll crash.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    Woahey:

    Here is my take on Hangover (Cow Pies + Hangover) compared to Highline (Hiline) since you last rode it:

    Hangover:

    99% of the trail is still the same. There has been a number of changes done on the old Cow Pies trail. Some changed the character of the trail by dumbing it down to allow lesser skilled riders like me and you to ride those previous unrideable sections.

    There is a new right hand climbing turn that has been incorporated into the trail that may or my not be rideable by you. I don't think I have the conditioning and cardio to make the new turn without resting, but maybe you do. I just heard from a reliable source that it is rideable by 40% of the 70% so maybe you fall into that group.

    If yo want to I will go out there with you and will do a video of you riding it with or without stopping.

    After the turn the trail maybe dumbed down a little, but I don't care if it was because I could barely clean that rock step previously and if it is easier I can live with that.

    I don't know what has been done once you get to the saddle. I doubt they did much to the saddle it is a pretty solid piece of rock and is not subject to much erosion (damage) on the left (west) side.

    Once you roll into the dirt on the left side is where you have significant erosion taking place. That rollin use to be pretty easy, but it is getting more difficult by the 50%'ers. Not sure what Lars has planned there. IMHO it will need to be armored like the rock ramp (on the southwest highpoint of the trail) built by the A Team years ago.

    I am not sure if the northeast side of the saddle is going to be made more rideable by the 70%'ers. It would be an easy thing to do, but it is more like an entrance exam to let riders know you better be a highly skilled rider if you think you are going to clean the rest of the ride.

    After the point I think the character of the trail is the same as it has always been. The last time I rode it there were two blown out spots. One oc a climbing section and one on a level left hand turn. Both of those sections could be easily fixed with about three manhours of work. The rock necessary to fix those sections is not as close as on would like but it should be accessible by a determine trail maintenance person.

    I have no idea what the archeological clearance is width wise on that trail and the rock material maybe outside the boundary. There also might be a Sight issue concern because the view from those fix areas is very significant and the tribes might not feel comfortable about white guys stopping and working at those spots.

    There needs to be some communication with the tribal leaders to see what their comfort level with such a project. Also last night Travis advised us that there are artifacts everywhere in Sedona so that spot could be covered with chips.

    Ok onto Highline. There has obviously been work done on several places working up to the upper viewpoint. It must have been done by Plumber Phil. I can't imagine him letting anyone else work on that trail. Everything done was a OK with me. It has made it slightly easier for me to ride so I am good with that, and since I think it is Plumber Phil approved, I am totally good with that.

    Once you get to the viewpoint and start down the trail to the lower saddle, someone (Phil?) has cleaned up the trail so it is faster to ride. Someone (maybe Phil) has put in a one foot high berm on the Transcept intersection turn. That berm is totally cool so now I can ride that turn at least 6 MPH faster. I would say guys like Lars will hit that turn doing 30+. From that point the trail rips. It is much more flowy and much faster. You can carry a lot more speed and very little pedaling. Kind of a downhillers dream come true.

    After getting through the dirt section you are on the slickrock. Obviously nothing has changed there, EXCEPT PAINT. Yahoo!!!!!!!! We now have paint not tape, what a concept. AND it is NICE PAINT. Whoever did that painting my hat is off to you it was well spaced, not in your face but gave the out-of-towner's a good line to follow.

    OK everything is pretty much the same the paint guy took the twisty slickrock section and directed riders the way I like to ride that section, so I am cool with that, but I wonder what the riders are going to do who like the other faster line. Spots like this drive Jennifer and her boyfriend crazy. They want riders on their lines not off their lines. Since this is a slickrock section riders can ride where ever they want very easily.

    For example Lars will be out doing his KOM thing at Mach 6. I can guarantee you he is taking the fastest line. He will be off the paint for sure. I am totally cool with that, but I think the jury is out with Jennifer and you know who.

    After the cliff area everything is the same except for the cool paint not tape (oh thank you God). when you get to the steep rollin area you get the heads up with TEMPORARY well thought signage that I highly approve of informing you that the trail is under construction and it is rated as double diamond. I totally agree with the signage. If it stays TEMPORARY, I can live with that because it is better than NO SIGNAGE. I don't care if it isn't FS approval and there is nothing like it in the fricking manual. Someone smarter than me has decided it works (there really is a God).

    OK this is where the riding experience is changing slowly but surely. I may be wrong and maybe rockman will set me straight, but the rock surface in this downhill section is different than Hangover. Some my dounut maker father back ground education the rock has a lot of cracks in it it may or may not be the same formation as the Damifino saddle, but it has a lot of cracks which causes it to BREAK over repeated riders skidding down it.

    Like I said in a previous post it hopefully will be maintainable but not sustainable. The trail from this point down is going to constantly more fun to ride by the 3%'ers, I think the jury is out on the other 97%'ers. Certainly riders like Jennifer and her boyfriend are never going to clean the current or future backside fun fest.

    Due to the fractured rock the backside is going to need alot of maintenance to keep it close to it's current character. I believe the FS has made a deal with the devil on this section of trail. They thought I was a problem this section of trail is going to possibly be their worst nightmare.

    As usual I could be wrong, but as the rock keeps fracturing it will get more difficult for the aggressive masses to ride. Obviously there are going to be some crashes and there are going to be some really serious crashes.

    You have now taken the easier switch backs out of the equation and increased the grade of parts of the trail by over 5%. You are out of the recommended limits of the FS handbook because you made the deal with the devil. This is cool for the 3%'ers. I don't know who heads that group, but Lars, Chewy (when he recovers), Tex, Jason, Woahey, Danny, Jackie, Dante, Trixy, etc. are going to always rip that section. the rest of us who knows, but for sure we want to give it a try to our potential detriment.

    Anyway I recommend that they store a backboard close and an emergency kit (Lar's you can get that done) close by because it is not an if it is going to happen for sure. Lar's did up a splint for Chewy with a tree branch, so that work great, but SAR is going to want to use a back board on anything like a broken leg up.

    OK once you make it to the lower wash everything is the same. Hope that helps.
    Hangover = Old school HiLine = New school

  12. #12
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    Heads up riders. Starting on Monday Jan 28, a CREC crew will be out on the backside of HiLine working on the new reroute for several days. They will be brushing the wash, armoring the turns, armoring the upper slot, cleaning up the line, etc. A couple of us are providing help in having these hard working folks develop their trailbuilding skills. Alert the masses that fines are double in construction zones.
    There is a big difference between ripping and skidding.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chalkpaw View Post
    Heads up riders. Starting on Monday Jan 28, a CREC crew will be out on the backside of HiLine working on the new reroute for several days. They will be brushing the wash, armoring the turns, armoring the upper slot, cleaning up the line, etc. A couple of us are providing help in having these hard working folks develop their trailbuilding skills. Alert the masses that fines are double in construction zones.
    CP:

    Great Post as usual. I spoke with one of the key hikers with the Westerners recently that recently checked out the new alignment. He was totally impressed you 3%'ers could clean that whole backside section, BUT he was very concern that some slow moving hiker going up or down that whole route was going to get center punched by a KOM rider rocketing down that trail.

    We all know what happened to the guy in San Francisco during one of those types of situations and that is something everyone should be careful it doesn't happen on that alignment.

    This individual is a trail boss on Baldwin and also recognizes the potential user conflict on the race run down Baldwin to Templeton. If riders are KOMing it down that section the same potential is elevated due to bind turns on the north bound direction of the trail.

    One of his questions was why was the original switchback section closed? He indicated it could have been a hiker suggested route to give them a more user friendly lesser grade hike in either direction.

    He is a doctor and also thought a backboard, splints and emergency supplies might be a good idea in the potential impact areas. I have a friend who flew over the bars in the 90% turn spot ra referred to previously and broke his helmet and lacerated his face pretty severely there. I think you know the spot I am talking about. Those supplies might be a great help when the next person crashes in that area.

    I have ridden that whole line clean so many times It is normally a piece of cake for me, but recently the upper section has gotten harder due to chunked rock being dislodged, but that may be my own personal impression. It will be interesting if the line gets easier after you guys work on it. For me and my 60 year old wife who also rides it clean (except the 90 degree section) I look forward to it being DUMBED down, but the KOM guys like Woahey will be crying themselves to sleep if that happens.

    What do you or others think?

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