View Poll Results: Have you ever cut down a tree to build a trail...?

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  • Yes, that's what chainsaws are for.......braaaaaaaap

    10 40.00%
  • No, that kind of trail work is illegal and you should go to jail

    6 24.00%
  • Screw you hippie!!!

    9 36.00%
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  1. #1
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    Have you ever cut down a tree to build a trail?

    Discuss...

  2. #2
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    most of the trees are more than 28 inches apart ,why would you? Oh yeah, ladders and bridges,never done that. Most of the ladders and bridges i've seen were built from fallen or dead trees.

  3. #3
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    I see this thread getting bad...

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by kubo
    I see this thread getting bad...

    Not sure why it has to get bad? It's ok to cut down a tree to build a trophy home or for clear cutting, so what's wrong with cutting down a tree to use the wood to build a sick feature.

  5. #5
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    Most trees that are cut for homes come from managed growth areas. Cutting a tree down, if it's not on your own property, for a trail or feature, should be avoided.
    If you're lucky enough to be in the mountains,
    you're lucky enough.

  6. #6
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    with a proper wood cutting permit most trees fall legally. what gets done with them is the trail builders choice. and yes i own a chainsaw!
    j

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by azjonboy
    Most trees that are cut for homes come from managed growth areas. Cutting a tree down, if it's not on your own property, for a trail or feature, should be avoided.

    Why? I don't really see a dif. between the two as long as it's done properlly.

  8. #8
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    Had to cut out a few trees to build trails on Sunrise.
    Especially on Fungus.
    Now I DRIVE the short bus!!


    Help increase ShortBus' rep

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by JrockFeltaz
    done properlly.
    that is exactly the point. so ask the question...."is the trail you're building completely approved by the land manager?"

    If so the answer to you're question is much simpler.
    b

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by brianc
    that is exactly the point. so ask the question...."is the trail you're building completely approved by the land manager?"

    If so the answer to you're question is much simpler.

    So it's ok if it's aproved by the Land Manager?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by JrockFeltaz
    So it's ok if it's aproved by the Land Manager?
    What do you mean by "done properly"?
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by azjonboy
    Most trees that are cut for homes come from managed growth areas. Cutting a tree down, if it's not on your own property, for a trail or feature, should be avoided.
    You sure about that?

    (even has MTBer commentary)
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  13. #13
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    My response to extreme environmentalists.

    Any one who is anti logging needs to read the paragraph down below. First off, let me say that I love the outdoors and grew up in Oregon in a small lumber town, hunting and fishing, and I do not like to see improper timber management. Most loggers, (I was a timber faller for many years) love the woods and mountains, and all that goes with it. But they also have families to support, and an industry that is based on the demand of every person in this country. So here is a little story to contemplate.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    (I was on the way home from work one day, filling up my gas jugs at a station, when this idiot in a BMW starts lecturing me about my killing of trees. Here is my response, and something all of us should think about, especially those that criticize logging before they even think.)
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Sir, I bet you are going to go home and park your Beemer in your wooden garage.(nice wood grained interior on that Beemer by the way. )Then you are going to walk across your wooden deck, past your redwood hot-tub. Then you will enter your beautiful house(guess what it is mostly built with, heck,it might even be a log cabin). Then you will go to the fridge, pull out a carton of milk and nuke a microwave meal and have a snack. Afterwords you will run to the can and plop down on your wooden toilet seat, and pick up the latest copy of "Sierra Club" magazine where you will read about those terrible loggers. Then you will pick up a pencil and do part of the crossword in the newspaper. After which you will wipe your arse with toilet paper. Then you will retire to the comfort of your living room with all of its wood furniture, tables, and entertainment centers, where you will plop a little log on the old fireplace for some ambiance. Then you will go to your desk(nice maple I might add), break out your pad, pencil, and envelopes, and write a letter to some politician demanding that those nasty loggers quit killing all the beautiful trees!!

    So to anyone who complains about the clearcutting and deforestation. If you fit any of the scenario up above, then you should just STFU!!!!!!!

  14. #14
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    When I built Renegade in Whistler I believe I cut down about 150 trees for the 1/3 mile strech between Side Track and Dirt Merchant. On the steep sideslope sections I used the trees on the outside edge to act as a soil retainer they worked great.

    TD

  15. #15
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    ... and if we just ...

    Quote Originally Posted by twowheelsdown2002
    Any one who is anti logging needs to read the paragraph down below. First off, let me say that I love the outdoors and grew up in Oregon in a small lumber town, hunting and fishing, and I do not like to see improper timber management. Most loggers, (I was a timber faller for many years) love the woods and mountains, and all that goes with it. But they also have families to support, and an industry that is based on the demand of every person in this country. So here is a little story to contemplate.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    (I was on the way home from work one day, filling up my gas jugs at a station, when this idiot in a BMW starts lecturing me about my killing of trees. Here is my response, and something all of us should think about, especially those that criticize logging before they even think.)
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Sir, I bet you are going to go home and park your Beemer in your wooden garage.(nice wood grained interior on that Beemer by the way. )Then you are going to walk across your wooden deck, past your redwood hot-tub. Then you will enter your beautiful house(guess what it is mostly built with, heck,it might even be a log cabin). Then you will go to the fridge, pull out a carton of milk and nuke a microwave meal and have a snack. Afterwords you will run to the can and plop down on your wooden toilet seat, and pick up the latest copy of "Sierra Club" magazine where you will read about those terrible loggers. Then you will pick up a pencil and do part of the crossword in the newspaper. After which you will wipe your arse with toilet paper. Then you will retire to the comfort of your living room with all of its wood furniture, tables, and entertainment centers, where you will plop a little log on the old fireplace for some ambiance. Then you will go to your desk(nice maple I might add), break out your pad, pencil, and envelopes, and write a letter to some politician demanding that those nasty loggers quit killing all the beautiful trees!!

    So to anyone who complains about the clearcutting and deforestation. If you fit any of the scenario up above, then you should just STFU!!!!!!!
    +1 and agree. now I gotta go ride some skinnies on the railroad ties I bought in bulk.
    "I tried to live always free and above board like you" Cool Hand Luke

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by twowheelsdown2002
    ...

    So to anyone who complains about the clearcutting and deforestation. If you fit any of the scenario up above, then you should just STFU!!!!!!!
    I'm not anti-logging. I too grew up in a logging town - Weaverville, CA.

    I am anti- poor forestry management. Clear-cutting definitely falls into poor forestry management and is done for the major corporate profit (Sierra Pacific, Weyerhaeuser, etc). It's not necessarily the small time or piece-loggers fault either.
    These same companies don't care about small communities and families; shutting down sawmills and sending the timber offshore to be milled where there is no regulation and again, done to maximize profit.

    Clear cutting: disrupts habitat, leaves the soil bare and prone to land slides and causes damage to waterways. When/if the forest comes back it is usually one or two species of trees and grows up in such a way that they are all of the same age.
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll
    I'm not anti-logging. I too grew up in a logging town - Weaverville, CA.

    I am anti- poor forestry management. Clear-cutting definitely falls into poor forestry management and is done for the major corporate profit (Sierra Pacific, Weyerhaeuser, etc). It's not necessarily the small time or piece-loggers fault either.
    These same companies don't care about small communities and families; shutting down sawmills and sending the timber offshore to be milled where there is no regulation and again, done to maximize profit.

    Clear cutting: disrupts habitat, leaves the soil bare and prone to land slides and causes damage to waterways. When/if the forest comes back it is usually one or two species of trees and grows up in such a way that they are all of the same age.
    I agree, there is a lot of piss poor timber management.

    A lot of it is on Forest Service land too. I remember a place back home where you are driving through a section of forest that looks like a park. It belongs to a timber company that manages it for sustainability, for the future. Then you enter "National Forest Land" and it looks like a war zone!! WTF!! I would have thought it was the private company land that looks bad, but they take care of the land they own. The problems is companies that log land they DON'T own. Then they tend to rape and pillage.

    Clearcutting is not a cut and dry issue. Have you ever tried to log steep ground? Cat logging is not viable. Helicopter logging is very expensive, and in many cases just can't be profitable.

    That leaves yarder logging.
    And if you log with a yarder, you cannot have anything standing or it will kill the loggers. If a tree hits a standing tree while being yarded up, it can dislodge the log, sending it down the hill to crush the crew. Or it can snap the skyline which can whip down the hill and cut people in two. Or it will break off the standing tree and send it down on the crew. Or it will topple the yarder down the hill. That is why you can't selective cut on a yarder job.

    The biggest thing is to have proper replanting of a logged off unit. This prevents erosion even in a clear cut. We used to hunt clear cuts a lot when I was growing up. Why? Because berries, and grasses and other food would grow there that would attract the deer and bears. A clearcut area can actually be quite a haven for animal species as long as they only make up a certain percentage of an area. Obvously if you clear cut too large a percentage of an area, then it is detrimental. But if it is limited, it is not really harmful, and provides areas of good feeding for many species.

    Showing just pictures of a total clearcut with bare dirt everywhere is a little misleading, and can be downright disengenuous. Most clearcuts are like areas that have forest fires, and they have very rapid recovery if managed properly.

    I have taken people into areas where they said "What a beautiful old growth forest!" And then I showed them old stumps hidden under berry briars, and rotting away, and showed them it was a second growth forest.

  18. #18
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    the recent fire on Shultz would have not have been as bad if more trees of snaller diameter had been removed.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc
    When I built Renegade in Whistler I believe I cut down about 150 trees for the 1/3 mile strech between Side Track and Dirt Merchant. On the steep sideslope sections I used the trees on the outside edge to act as a soil retainer they worked great.

    TD

    Now that sounds like some good forest management to me.
    Better than most, not as good as some.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll
    You sure about that?

    (even has MTBer commentary)
    You just have to love the irony of the video.

    Where he stands and points at his big paper maps taped to the side of a wooden building.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by twowheelsdown2002
    You just have to love the irony of the video.

    Where he stands and points at his big paper maps taped to the side of a wooden building.
    Hmm, well I don't see that as ironic.
    There are ways to get wood with out destroying the forest - that wood may have come from that.
    Maps? - even more ways to make paper that do not even involve forests
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  22. #22
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    OP needs to clarify. Is this a tree still standing or deadfall? On a hill or flat ground? How many trees per acre? Once cut, will it be used in the trail as berm, jump, bench? It takes some work for good results.
    As for the question, Yes! Lots. My tree project that I keep looking at is on Jedi. Four downfall trees that storms dropped a year ago. Everyone now walks around this mess. But If I made about four cuts and use a come-along to drag a 50' log back onto the original track it would make a nice log ride. Its debatable if one would make a top cut along the log to make a flat track rather than a rounded skinny. Then make a cut on the end of the log so riders can enter the entertainment as a ramp. That would be proud!
    There is a big difference between ripping and skidding.

  23. #23
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    We cut down lotsa dead trees to build the ladder drop "6 Hits" on six shooter. As long as they are dead, i dont see a problem.
    Madspeed always prevails!

  24. #24
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    I have never seen the need to cut down a Palo Verde Tree but one ever gets in my way of some sweet lines around a cholla the suckers going down.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll
    Hmm, well I don't see that as ironic.
    There are ways to get wood with out destroying the forest - that wood may have come from that.
    Maps? - even more ways to make paper that do not even involve forests
    Yes, "no actual trees were harmed during the making of this building".

    I think I also saw a disclaimer in small print on the map. "Made only from free range trees, locally grown, and clear cut free."

  26. #26
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    fine.
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by kubo
    I see this thread getting bad...
    You called it! ) I could go off as well but this famous quote sums it all up::


    A self righteous Liberal with a cause, is more dangerous than a Hells Angel with an attitude.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by tgiles
    As long as they are dead, i dont see a problem.
    This.

  29. #29
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    Let me say, I'm, all about cutting down some trees. (check the voting)
    I myself, am a pretty good feller. - How many of you have dropped a tree. Furthermore, how many of you can drop a 200' within a 20' bullseye? fore/aft...left/right (barring extraordinary conditions) - I can (most of the time ).

    What I don't get, as versed in many threads here (and other places) is statements like :"A self righteous Liberal"

    Now, I hold no ties to these labels....
    So, I guess I'm a liberal - shouldn't we have liberty?
    And I'm a conservative - Shouldn't we conserve our treasures?

    My problem lies with raping our planet in various ways.
    Somehow, that makes me a 'lefty loonie' - I mean, we ALL want to live here right?
    (that's probably read as a 'lefty' statement as communism)

    My point is that I'm neither right or left (invented terms by bigots) - I'm planetary, humanistic and Universal.
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll
    Let me say, I'm, all about cutting down some trees. (check the voting)
    I myself, am a pretty good feller. - How many of you have dropped a tree. Furthermore, how many of you can drop a 200' within a 20' bullseye? fore/aft...left/right (barring extraordinary conditions) - I can (most of the time ).

    What I don't get, as versed in many threads here (and other places) is statements like :"A self righteous Liberal"

    Now, I hold no ties to these labels....
    So, I guess I'm a liberal - shouldn't we have liberty?
    And I'm a conservative - Shouldn't we conserve our treasures?

    My problem lies with raping our planet in various ways.
    Somehow, that makes me a 'lefty loonie' - I mean, we ALL want to live here right?
    (that's probably read as a 'lefty' statement as communism)

    My point is that I'm neither right or left (invented terms by bigots) - I'm planetary, humanistic and Universal.
    I don't mean to dog you, I get where you are coming from.

    I myself, like you, do not like all the labels that people try to use on you to shoehorn you into this or that category. And nowadays, the word "Liberal" is definitely not used properly!! Even the pledge of allegiance uses the word "Liberty" and it does not take a rocket scientist to connect the relationship in those words. I would call myself a Libertarian, because I don't like the 2 party system, and don't align myself with either.I personally believe the 2 party system is just to keep the people happy, so that every 4 years we "think" that we make a change, and are therefore in control. Then the corporations pull any strings they want with both parties and bone us in the arse once again, and 4 years later us people that are in "control" make another change.

    I am extremely socially liberal. I really don't care if you want to smoke a joint or suck a dick, as long as you don't hurt anyone, it isn't my freaking business. Want to worship Satan, Allah, Jehovah, or Nothing? Not my business as long as you don't mess with me. But in other ways I am Conservative, because I don't like abortion. Hey, if I kill an unborn kid, I go to jail for murder, so it must be a "life". Pretty simple. Yet I also think pot should be legalized.

    So am I a pro-life, liberal, hippie logger?

    I made my living falling timber in Oregon for many years, and fell 10's of thousands of trees, and yet I love the outdoors, and nature, and I try to leave no trace, and leave my campsite better than when I got there. I don't want the planet raped either, but people have to understand that you don't get something for nothing, and a lot of environmentalists are hypocrites. Look at Robert Redford. Anti logging, anti mining, and he lives in a giant log cabin and owns all kinds of vehicles. Where the hell does he think all that crap came from.

    So back to your point about labels. I totally agree, and wish the idiots on both the left and right would quit trying to put everyone in a box anytime you take a stance on something. All it does is divide this nation.

    What it all comes down to is BALANCE!!!!!
    Last edited by twowheelsdown2002; 07-20-2010 at 07:34 PM.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by twowheelsdown2002
    ...
    What if all comes down to is BALANCE!!!!!
    nice man... I'm glad you get where I'm at - AND might I say where MOST are at!
    'left/right' ideology can go in the round-file


    If you do cut a tree, use a Stihl - they are more super-dooper than those Husqy-fuqs!
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by sinatorj
    the recent fire on Shultz would have not have been as bad if more trees of snaller diameter had been removed.
    The total suppression of all fires has turned out to be just as, if not more, harmful then clearcutting. That said I do think the the best way to get new trails built legally is to work with the Forest Circus rather then risk their wrath, fines and having all of your work destroyed any way. The argument that you will be too old to ride the trail if you have to wait a couple of years for approval is well childish. Look at what has been done on the Sixshooter trail by working with said Forest Circus. After you have said approval then fire up the chainsaws and letum fall.
    Singin' I love hike a bike!!!

  33. #33
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    I "used" to be a proponent of equal rights and use for everybody but no longer. Sorry, the youtube video is a huge red flag. You mean well but you just don't look at things with logic any longer when you join the "mother earth" above all else crowd. I grew up riding and racing dirt bikes in socal and az only to watch it completely get squeezed out because its been deemed as "evil" by the eco groups who figured out control via govt is the way to nirvana for them, something our groups will probably never figure out with the same sort of effectiveness. I was always a responsible as well sticking to existing trails and even picking up the habit of returning with more trash than I left with. If I want to enjoy the desert today on a dirt bike, I have to drive at least an hour and I am completely fenced in to some very small areas anymore. There will come a day when MTB will feel the same wrath if this movement isn't pushed back against. MTBs don't use the "evil" fossil fuels but they "leave a trace" when used in nature...... If I have to pick a side, I will be on the side of open lands even if it means its managed in a way I wouldn't necessarily agree with or enjoy. Hopefully we figure it out before its too late and join with motorized off roaders, hunters, etc. and develop a strong voice within govt.
    Last edited by cjaghblb; 07-21-2010 at 03:55 AM.

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