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  1. #1
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    Going TUBELESS and FRUSTRATED!!!

    I have really been frustrated with making the switch to tubeless. Just wanted to pick everyone’s brain and ask a few questions about making the switch. I have dt swiss ex5.1d rims and am on the fence about going with the Stans kit or the specific dt swiss kit. Does anyone have any pros and cons regarding the two kits on these rims. Also, if I go with the stans do I need to get the freeride kit version...my understanding is that the freeride kit will fit a rim width 27mm-34mm and the 5.1ds are 28mm.

    Also, what is the advantage of going with a UST specific tire instead of just a plain old tire. I have done quite a bit of research and there are a lot of conflicting views. Some says just go with the regular tire and save weight, cause there really isn’t much difference in the UST and non UST tires. Although, I have also heard some say that the UST tire provides some more sidewall rigidity and doesn’t make the tire feel so squirmy.

    What do you guys think and advice would be much appreciated.

  2. #2
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    If you think you're going to stick with the DT Swiss rims, go with the DT Swiss kit. I've run it and it's quite nice, though it's not cheap ($50 per wheel, all inclusive). I don't personally care much for DT due to easy rim denting here, but if that's what you're running, their kit is quite nice.

    That kit will seal up very nice with most UST or non-UST tires. I typically run non-UST personally.

  3. #3
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    Or for $3 go and buy a roll of Gorilla tape, then a tubeless valve stem for another $5

    I'm not running the same rims as you, but worked like a charm and sealed up the first time with no trouble for me.

    I prefer UST just for the tougher sidewalls (which I seem to tear a lot of). Maybe try it with the non UST tires you already have and see how you like that before spending on a new set.

  4. #4
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    Thats a pretty good idea with the gorilla tape...any specific type of gorilla tape? So, just slap that gorilla tape over the spoke holes and fit the tubeless valve stem? Anyone else have any luck with this?

  5. #5
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    Do a search on "ghetto tubeless" and you'll find plenty of info. The DT Swiss system is pretty slick. I had rolled a couple tires off the sidewall using ghetto on DT Swiss rims. When I switched to their tubeless system, had no further issues.

    That's not to say ghetto is bad; I've used it on a bunch of rims. Just saying the DT system is pretty nice for the coin.

  6. #6
    parenting for gnarness
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    i've got the dt swiss 5.1. I've used the stans, and for the last 2 yrs ghetto tubeless with pipe wrap. I've got 2 26inch stan's rim strips I'll sell you far cheaper than stan's will - pm me if interested. i agree these rims are not the best, but for some stupid reason I haven't replaced them.

    like other said, search for ghetto tubeless. Lots and lots of threads on the topic. There are divergent opinions on all aspects - tape, strips, stems, spunk, tubeless rims vs. conversion. There is no right answer, you will need to study and experiment with what ultimately works for you.

  7. #7
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    Try searching "gorilla tubeless" too.

  8. #8
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    Just the 1 in wide roll of Gorilla tape from your local Lowe's (Home Depot and ACE neither had the 1in wide variety). Perfect size for laying down in that channel.

  9. #9
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    Gorilla tape...

    Use a 1'' width rather than the 2'' this guy uses.

    Last edited by eatdrinkride; 07-31-2010 at 01:14 PM. Reason: Gorilla tape

  10. #10
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    I have your exact rims and Use one inch gorilla tape, Havn't had a problem in over a year. Just clean the inside of the rim where the spoke holes are and you shouldn't have a problem because that gorilla tape is super sticky and strong. Keep the tape tight as you wrap your rim, I went around once and it seals perfect but you may want to wrap it twice. Now just throw stans in the tire and hit it with a compressor and it should seal no problem. The only complaint is the dt swiss rims are soft, I have several side dings on the rim that have physically bent the rim lip but I still have not blown a tire off.
    2013 Yeti Sb66

  11. #11
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    The best way to go tubeless is to go UST all the way. For 50 you might find a ust rim instead of those silly kits. I fought with tubeless conversions for a year before putting real UST mavic 819 rims and UST tires to match. All those "tubeless ready" tires are really regular tires that accept sealant without problems.

    UST is a specification on bead diameter, sidewall sealing and rim profile that all work together to make a optimal setup for tubeless. Messing around with Ghetto tubeless, rim strips and other shenanigans is a hobbyists pastime. (Been there done that). While some of these setups work fine, there are too many variables (rim profile, tire compound, etc) that can cause problems down the road. Plus you never know if your new tire is going to seal with stans or just weep out the sidewalls forever. My UST tires hold air like a regular tubed tire, only needing inflation once a week or so.

    The only tires I have had set a bead without CO2 has been ust tires on ust rims. The second best reliable flat preventer is Stans or Slime in tubes.

  12. #12
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    Thanks guys for all the good info with the gorilla tape...I am definitly going to try this, but just had one question. Should I use the stans stem or go with that ghetto version by cutting an old stem from a tube? Does the stans stem mount directly to the rim and doesnt require the stans rim strips? Also, does anyone have any good suggestions for UST specific tires for our desert riding conditions here in AZ? I am currently running a 2.35 nevegal in the front and a small block 8 in the back. Thanks again for all the good info.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by barnesie
    Thanks guys for all the good info with the gorilla tape...I am definitly going to try this, but just had one question. Should I use the stans stem or go with that ghetto version by cutting an old stem from a tube? Does the stans stem mount directly to the rim and doesnt require the stans rim strips? Also, does anyone have any good suggestions for UST specific tires for our desert riding conditions here in AZ? I am currently running a 2.35 nevegal in the front and a small block 8 in the back. Thanks again for all the good info.
    I used gorilla tape to seal my 355s. Couldn't get Stans tape to work on Stans rims. Obviously user error, but either way the gorialla tape is working perfectly. This is Stans valves.

    For tires, I had great luck with Maxxis Ignitor UST...but they were just too heavy for me. They wore very well in the desert and would plow through anything.

  14. #14
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    as others have said......folks who have great experiences on some tires (Like the ignitors above)....others will have horrible experiences on the same tires (like me)

    It all depends on the geometry of your rim and the tire make/model.

    this is an experiment and requires failure until success......thats the reward after the bitter....stick with it and experiment and you'll find what is right for you and what is right for the rims you have.

  15. #15
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    I used the stans valve stem with my gorilla tape setup. No stans strips or anything. It can really seal nicely when you tighten it up.. I'm sure any of the other tubeless valve stems would too. You could probably use a valve stem out of an old tube if you were careful sealing it with the tape. I used a tubeless valve stem just to be sure it would seal.

    Maad is right on about it being a process of experimentation. You are just going to have to experiment and find the right combination of durability,
    weight, price, etc.

    I have found that I love a 2.3 ust geax dhea on the rear. For the front I'm using a geax neuron 2.3 dh/fr, which is really tough but really heavy. It really depends so much on your riding style. I can tell you what works for me.. But doesn't mean it will for you

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by barnesie
    Thanks guys for all the good info with the gorilla tape...I am definitly going to try this, but just had one question. Should I use the stans stem or go with that ghetto version by cutting an old stem from a tube? Does the stans stem mount directly to the rim and doesnt require the stans rim strips? Also, does anyone have any good suggestions for UST specific tires for our desert riding conditions here in AZ? I am currently running a 2.35 nevegal in the front and a small block 8 in the back. Thanks again for all the good info.
    i do not see the need for UST specific tires, but that's an easy thing to try once and then try another. you will weep a little out the sidewalls with non-ust. i mix my own, so dont mind using a lot and i probably overwater knowing that i will weep some fluid. trial and error.

    stan's strips have valve stems on them. i strongly suggest the stan's (or comparable) tubeless valve for 2 reasons - they have removable cores which make refills much easier since you do not need to break the bead, and they have a nice built-up cone of rubber which seals up the rim. you can make do with grommets or tape etc, but the valve stem will take more abuse so that is a better part to invest in, imo. they are also reusable.

  17. #17
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    I'm a Gorilla taper too. It has worked well for me and I wish I knew about this 1" wide tape. I keep cutting the 2" that is here at my local ACE. Kind of a pain. Trial and error is key but success can be easily had. I've done both my 26" and 29" tires with my own sealant brew too. I've used old tire stems without issue. You can't fill through the stem, but breaking the bead for a few inches hasn't been much of an issue.

    However, the worst thing about tubeless, that I never heard about before doing it, was that if the tire goes flat from not sealing and the bead dries, you'll have to peel off all the latex from the bead to make a new seal. I've found this rather annoying during the learning curve. But I digress and still recommend tubeless. Won't go back to tubes anytime soon!

    Patience, persistence and a compressor will bring you success. (Don't forget the soapy water, either.)
    Today's the day I eat bikes.

  18. #18
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    http://paradigmhosting.net/yes_tubes/

    Works as advertised for years and years. Pretty cheap too.
    i never thought i'd be 43 and living here......i kinda wanted to be a rockstar..." Mark Hendershot

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by ggnarl
    The best way to go tubeless is to go UST all the way. For 50 you might find a ust rim instead of those silly kits. I fought with tubeless conversions for a year before putting real UST mavic 819 rims and UST tires to match. All those "tubeless ready" tires are really regular tires that accept sealant without problems.

    UST is a specification on bead diameter, sidewall sealing and rim profile that all work together to make a optimal setup for tubeless. Messing around with Ghetto tubeless, rim strips and other shenanigans is a hobbyists pastime. (Been there done that). While some of these setups work fine, there are too many variables (rim profile, tire compound, etc) that can cause problems down the road. Plus you never know if your new tire is going to seal with stans or just weep out the sidewalls forever. My UST tires hold air like a regular tubed tire, only needing inflation once a week or so.

    The only tires I have had set a bead without CO2 has been ust tires on ust rims. The second best reliable flat preventer is Stans or Slime in tubes.
    You have some good points, and some really ignorant ones "other shenanigans is a hobbyists pastime." --there are so many factors involved, and equipment used are just a few. The real factors are- how and where you ride and how the install is performed.

    How and where you ride is probably the most important- because this determines the equipment you should use. For those who never learned finesse- most non-UST tires will tear on rocks, burp or blow sidewall or blow tire completely. Same goes for the heavy riders. If one of your reasons for going tubeless is pinch flats- go for the best sidewall construction you can and find a tire/rim combo (through research on here or your LBS) that will work the best for you. There is no magic product that works for everyone- you may need to experiement a bit to find the best set up. If you float like a butterfly or weigh as much as one- you can get away with murder on your setup. I am the latter (on both accounts!) and I use the lightest non-UST tires from Maxxis on my Fisher Rig (hardtail) and have only sliced one sidewall at Estrella and after perfecting my install- have not burped once. I used a ghetto tubeless conversion- it works for me. Install is important too. Have a shop that is VERY familiar with tubeless. Just because they sell Stan's does not mean they know how to install it. THis is the benefit of going with your LBS- they have the product AND the know how. My preference is Swiss American- Nick knows tubeless. There are certainly other shops in the valley that are good at it too.

    Good luck- I love running tubeless and even put Stan's into my road bike tubes. It may not work for everyone- but there are so many options out there- the only challenge is finding the right one for you.
    Vassago Cycles, Shadetree Bikes, Flat Tire Bikes, Galfer Brakes USA

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by midget
    http://paradigmhosting.net/yes_tubes/

    Works as advertised for years and years. Pretty cheap too.
    And just like advertised, when you poke a hole in them they go flat.

    I had one of my tires(Rampage) set up ghetto tubeless with 20" split tube. When I took it off it had 27 spines in it(that I could find) Lord knows how many actual holes had been put into it, as I just let them stay in. Some may have gotten pulled out while riding, and some may have been "in and out" punctures that simply got sealed up instantly.

    I would be willing to bet that in total there were probable 40 sealed up punctures in this one tire. Now double that to account for the other tire, and you end up with 80 times having to stop and change tubes during a ride. Tubes? Thanks, but no thanks!

  21. #21
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    easy there. clearly Midget was joking around....as the link is pretty cheeky as well.

  22. #22
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    [ignorance start]
    I've just learned about tubeless over the last few months since I've been on this board but my understanding was UST tires and rims needed to be used together. So, I apparently don't know the difference in UST vs nonUST rims and tires. I read above that UST tires have a thicker sidewall but I'm now guessing that that is about the only difference, thus they can be used on nonUST rims?

    I always figured that UST tires were designed to hold a seal on UST rims whereas nonUST tires are just designed to stay on nonUST rims.
    [/ignorance end]


    Still learning... and I'll be going tubeless soon...

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by big0mike
    [ignorance start]
    I've just learned about tubeless over the last few months since I've been on this board but my understanding was UST tires and rims needed to be used together. So, I apparently don't know the difference in UST vs nonUST rims and tires. I read above that UST tires have a thicker sidewall but I'm now guessing that that is about the only difference, thus they can be used on nonUST rims?

    I always figured that UST tires were designed to hold a seal on UST rims whereas nonUST tires are just designed to stay on nonUST rims.
    [/ignorance end]


    Still learning... and I'll be going tubeless soon...
    UST tires and rims BOTH have a specific shape to the bead area, to create an airtight bead interface. With a true UST tire and rim, they will hold air without sealant, but most use sealant for punctures. They are heavier with thicker sidewalls usually.

    Tubeless ready tires have a bead that is shaped like a UST bead, so it interfaces with the same airtight seal as a UST tire/rim setup, but the sidewalls are more like a regular tire, and so they have to have sealant to hold air. Lighter, and thinner than UST, but sometimes have extra sidewall protection compared to a regular tire, but not always.

    When you start mixing UST tires with regular rims, and regular tires with UST rims is where you get problems and confusion.

    The rule of thumb that I follow is this. If it is not UST tire to UST rim, then you should use a sealing strip. If I use a UST rim and regular tire, I use a Stan's strip, or a 20" split tube to make a reliable bead seal. If I use a regular rim with regular or UST tire, again, a sealing strip is necessary because of the spoke holes and to make a bead seal.

    Now the exception to the rule. If you use a Stan's rim like the Flow, then you can use his yellow tape and a regular tire.

    In all cases, if I set up a regular tire, I never go over 40psi!!!

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by midget
    http://paradigmhosting.net/yes_tubes/

    Works as advertised for years and years. Pretty cheap too.

    I love this! I'm one of those who still doesn't get tubeless. If you are going to ride over cactuses and such, run slime. If you are pinch flatting, pump up your tires. Jeez.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by supermoto
    I love this! I'm one of those who still doesn't get tubeless. If you are going to ride over cactuses and such, run slime. If you are pinch flatting, pump up your tires. Jeez.
    Slime simply does not work all that effectively. Not in tubes anyway.

    My girlfriend was using tubes when I met her, and I was changing tires for her once or twice every ride we went on, until I told her that she had to go tubeless if we were going to continue "date riding" .(not to be confused with "date raping" )

    She even tried Slime tubes, and they were very inconsistent on sealing. She still got flats all the time. I suspect that Slime does not work as well in a tube, because the tube can just stretch, and still let air out, where a tire simply seals up. All her Slime tubes did was make a mess in the tire, and still go flat.

    Yet Slime mixed in my homebrew seals up punctures well. Again, because it is a different ballgame when used in a tire vs a tube.

  26. #26
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    I tried slime tubes when I started riding about a decade ago and realized that they were pretty much crap, and expensive crap at that. I quit'm pretty fast and just pumped the tubes up to 40 psi and rode that way for the better part of the last decade and I was happy. Still got some flats, but no more snake bites! Then I converted to tubeless and really like running my tires around 30 psi. Grippy bliss and I've hit tons of rock ledges that would have certainly left me with the dreaded pinch flat. I'm a recent convert but there is a learning curve you'll have to grow through, especially if you're going true ghetto with tape/tube and your own homebrew sealant. But success is sweet!
    Today's the day I eat bikes.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by big0mike
    [ignorance start]
    I've just learned about tubeless over the last few months since I've been on this board but my understanding was UST tires and rims needed to be used together. So, I apparently don't know the difference in UST vs nonUST rims and tires. I read above that UST tires have a thicker sidewall but I'm now guessing that that is about the only difference, thus they can be used on nonUST rims?

    I always figured that UST tires were designed to hold a seal on UST rims whereas nonUST tires are just designed to stay on nonUST rims.
    [/ignorance end]


    Still learning... and I'll be going tubeless soon...
    I'm about as far away for an expert as them come. However, I'm currently running UST rims with non UST (in fact, non-tubeless) tires, and have zero problems. Two scoops of Stans, and I very rarely have to add air, even when the bike sat for over a month.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  28. #28
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    (repost from before)


    Do this:

    http://www.go-ride.com/Articles/ghetto_tubeless.html

    BUT do the following modifications to the procedure:

    1A - Use a schroeder valve tube. It is more durable, it will let you flow much more air when inflating, and it is easier to put more stans in later. Presta valves are for roadies.

    2A - Clean the powder out of the inner tube using simple green and a ton of water. Get all the powder out. This cannot be emphasized enough. Get it really really clean. Residual powder = slow leaks at the bead.

    3A - Before you start mounting the tire onto the rim give the tube and the tire bead a quick wipe down with a paper towel that is wetted with brake cleaner. It will remove the last of the powder from the tube and the release compound from the tire bead. It will also give you cancer.

    4A - Now that you wiped the tube and tire down with brake cleaner it is a real beeyatch to mount the tire, as they want to grip each other like nothing you've ever experienced. DO NOT use soap and water to lubricate. Use a thin coat of "latex mold builder" (http://www.michaels.com/art/online/d...ductNum=gc0514) to lube the bead as you slide it on.

    6A - For big tires use 3 or 4oz of stans. The extra ounce isn't going to kill you, but it comes in handy when you get a huge puncture.
    6B - Besides the 3oz of stans add 1 heaping teaspoon of the "latex mold builder" and stir it into the stans. It helps the stans work better on larger punctures and small tears.
    6C - If the tire is really tight and you are having trouble getting the last part of the bead over the rim lip make yourself some "rim protectors". Fold a piece of duct tape in half, then fold a piece of packaging tape over the duct tape. Use the tape to protect the rim strip from your tire irons when you lever the bead over the rim. Difficult to explain, I'll post some photos.
    6D - Ignore the directions to build up the center of the rim with tape to make a tight seal. Your air compressor takes care of that when used properly.

    7A - Rotate the wheel so the valve is towards the top (and the stans is now 180 degrees away in the bottom of the tire). Remove the valve core of the schroeder valve. Remove the tire chuck from your air compressor,. leaving just the quick connect. Add air to the valve stem straight from the quick connect. The valve stem will actuate the quick connect and you will get a huge volume of air that will seat the tire instantly. No more f-ing around with soap and water and oozing stans and squeezing the tire and getting pissed off. The above method WILL seat your tire on the rim.
    7B - Wrestle the valve core back into the valve stem. Try not to coat yourself with stans (thats why I had you rotate the stem upwards).

    The heavier duty of tube you use as a rim strip the less likely you will slice the sidewall of your tire open, but it becomes a real bear to seat the tires because the tube is so thick. On my downhill wheels I use a 20" thorn resistant tube, but it is nearly impossible to mount hutchinson wire bead tires without messing up the bead.

    The pipe tape method is lighter but much much less reliable and prone to burping. If you lose pressure on the trail you are done, the tire will "de-bead" from the rim and you will have to put a tube in. With the tube strip method the tire and the tube strip lightly glue themselves together over time. You can totally deflate the tire then pump it back up with a compact pump, it won't "de-bead".

    Weight:
    performance 20" BMX tube: 130 grams
    stans: 80 grams
    mold builder: 14 grams
    excess tube trimmed off: -73grams
    Total weight: 151 grams.

    A 26" slime tube weighs 310 grams.

    The only real problem with ghetto tubeless is swapping tires. Since the tire and the rubber rim strip "stick" to one another you have to carefully peel the tire bead off the rim strip before dismounting the tire, otherwise you'll destroy the rim strip.

    Usually the rubber rim strip will hold its shape and you can put a new tire on no problem, but sometimes it wants to curl inwards away from the edge of the rim. When that happens I just use scotch tape to hold the rim strip where it should be, then I yank the tape out before seating the bead.



    The following least->best ratings are what I've found over the years. My opinion only, others may agree/disagree.

    Reliability (least to best):
    Ultralight tube + std tire
    Standard tube + std tire
    Slime Tube + std tire
    UST rim + std tire + sealant
    Ghetto tubeless + std tire + sealant <-my preferred all mountain setup
    UST rim + UST Tire + sealant
    Ghetto tubeless + UST tire + sealant <- my preferred downhill setup

    Weight (lightest to heaviest):
    Ultralight tube + std tire
    Ghetto tubeless + std tire + sealant (assuming xm719 or stans 355XC rims)
    Standard tube + std tire
    UST rim + std tire + sealant (assuming 819 rims)
    Ghetto tubeless + std tire + sealant (assuming EN521rims)
    Slime Tube + std tire
    Ghetto tubeless + UST tire + sealant
    UST rim + UST Tire + sealant


    try it you'll like it.

    original post:
    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.ph...ghlight=ghetto
    -MitchB

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by twowheelsdown2002
    My girlfriend was using tubes when I met her, and I was changing tires for her once or twice every ride we went on, until I told her that she had to go tubeless if we were going to continue "date riding" .(not to be confused with "date raping" )
    I hear this a lot and I've got to admit that I think a lot of you are either 1. Full of 5hit; 2. STUPID INSANE on your bikes, your choice of trails, and the zeal with which you attack the trails; 3. Don't know how to fill your tube with the proper amount of air.

    Now, don't take this the wrong way. I've learned a lot in my month or so here so I know tubeless has benefits and I would even concede that it's better in many cases (I plan on going ghetto soon). But, I can't for the life of me figure out WtF you guys are doing getting flats so often, in many cases being reported MULTIPLE times a ride.

    I've been riding most of the same trails here in Phoenix for the better part of 12 years and can count on one hand how many flats I've received. I may have to use two hands if I include the couple tubes that were punctured enough times that they would hold air for a ride and the next morning they are flat again.

    I've always used Slime and I've always followed the manufacturer's specs and kept around 40 lbs of air in the tire. RARELY have I had problems.

    But, I'll be joining you ghetto soon. I've been riding lately with around 32-35 lbs in my tires (with tubes) and I can feel the difference that makes. I do get a little nervous in some circumstances but I think I've found that sweet spot with tubes that lets me feel the trail without pinching. So far...

  30. #30
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    Good info mb300

    I do my ghetto tubeless pretty much the same way, except for I don't go so far as to use brake cleaner to clean the powder. I usually just use plenty of water and a rag to wipe off all the powder. I also use schraeder valve tubes as well.

    There is another trick you can use if you get a really tight tire and have to resort to levers. Most of the time I can grip the tube and hold it in place and just use my fingers and thumbs to push the bead over, but if I get a really tough one here is what I do.

    I pull the tube way over to one side in the area where I have to use the levers, and use the levers on the side where only a small part of tube is hanging out. Then after I get the tire on, I simply pull the rubber back over into place, and the spots where I pinched holes in the tube will now be outside of the rim, in the area that I am going to cut off anyways.

  31. #31
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    [QUOTE=big0mike]I
    hear this a lot and I've got to admit that I think a lot of you are either 1. Full of 5hit; 2. STUPID INSANE on your bikes, your choice of trails, and the zeal with which you attack the trails; 3. Don't know how to fill your tube with the proper amount of air.
    I think that being in the sport since 1985 I know how to put the proper amount of air in, and the flats my girlfriend were getting were not pinch flats, but rather cactus caused flats. So I would say it is mostly our choice of trails, in other words we like the "social" trails that are off the beaten path.
    But, I can't for the life of me figure out WtF you guys are doing getting flats so often, in many cases being reported MULTIPLE times a ride.
    Like I said, trail choice is probably the big factor. If you ride over at Fantasy Island where it gets tons of traffic, you can ride there a ton and never get a flat.

    But if you ride trails like Cool Cat, and Hooligan, and a few other nameless social trails at Tucson Mountain Park, or if you ride some of the upper trails at 50 year like Deer Camp, Baby Jesus, and Cherry Tank, you will be on trails with little use, and overhanging cholla that drop onto the trail. I have squished a cholla ball(he really squealed ) and it was going around on the tire, and I took a stick and pulled it off, and kept riding. No flat to change or anything. That trail would have been a multiple flat trail for sure.

  32. #32
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    Not sure why you'd suggest people are full of it when they report tire/tube failure. I've destroyed more tires (no not tubes, tires) mostly at PMP, than I care to count. If I get a $60 tire to last more than half a dozen rides, I'm doing well.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by twowheelsdown2002
    I think that being in the sport since 1985 I know how to put the proper amount of air in, and the flats my girlfriend were getting were not pinch flats, but rather cactus caused flats. ... trail choice is probably the big factor. If you ride over at Fantasy Island where it gets tons of traffic, you can ride there a ton and never get a flat.

    But if you ride trails like Cool Cat, and Hooligan, and a few other nameless social trails at Tucson Mountain Park, or if you ride some of the upper trails at 50 year like Deer Camp, Baby Jesus, and Cherry Tank, you will be on trails with little use, and overhanging cholla that drop onto the trail.
    Well, I've never ridden down there but up here there aren't many trails that don't see a lot of use and I can't remember the last time I had to dodge a cholla ball. You do have to do a little weaving amongst the chollas in the Cactus Gardens of PMP. So, I get the cactus issue. I've just never seen any terrain so treacherous with them. If you ride there... well, bummer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blatant
    Not sure why you'd suggest people are full of it when they report tire/tube failure. I've destroyed more tires (no not tubes, tires) mostly at PMP, than I care to count. If I get a $60 tire to last more than half a dozen rides, I'm doing well.
    Then you must be in the INSANE category bombing down trails that must be walked by mere mortals. And I'd hate to see your tire bill (riding 2x a week at $60 every 3 weeks is $1040 a year and something tells me you ride more than 2x a week.) If I had to change my tires every three weeks I'd be looking for some kind of change in my riding habits. At least your Stans or Home Brew doesn't have the chance to dry out.

    What parts of PMP and how often are you riding that's tearing the living 5hit outta your tires at the rate of one every 3-4 weeks?

    I'm not trying to be a complete @ss and I know that there are a lot of ROCK STAR riders out there (a member of that group I am not) but I don't think I'm that big of a poossy riding poossy trails all the time like a preschooler on training wheels. And I don't get flats. I also don't get shuttled up mountains riding down them so hard that you really should EXPECT flats a lot more often.

    So again, I'm not trying to beat up on anyone, call anyone liars, etc... I'm just trying to figure out how everyone has such problems. As stated earlier, I will be going tubeless one day but not because I flat all the time, although that would be a bonus.

  34. #34
    Brit on a trip
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    I have found pipe tape ghetto/Stans on DT 5.1's with Maxxis single ply Advantage tyres to be entirely successful for me. Schraeder valves too as they are easier to initially inflate and to fill/refill without disturbing the bead. This set up has been very easy to air up and very cheap.

    I am quite light at 155lbs and a heavier or more gung ho rider will probably benefit from heavier tyres.

    I preferred the pipetape route for lightness and simplicity compared to using a cut tube, anticipating problems changing tyres. I am less inclined to think this way now having worn out two tyres with no issues or punctures so far (hopefully that statement will not be the kiss of death!). For a heavier rider or perhaps the front tyre (to prevent burping), that might be the better route to go
    Growing old is mandatory - growing up is optional

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