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  1. #1
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    Going TUBELESS and FRUSTRATED!!!

    I have really been frustrated with making the switch to tubeless. Just wanted to pick everyone’s brain and ask a few questions about making the switch. I have dt swiss ex5.1d rims and am on the fence about going with the Stans kit or the specific dt swiss kit. Does anyone have any pros and cons regarding the two kits on these rims. Also, if I go with the stans do I need to get the freeride kit version...my understanding is that the freeride kit will fit a rim width 27mm-34mm and the 5.1ds are 28mm.

    Also, what is the advantage of going with a UST specific tire instead of just a plain old tire. I have done quite a bit of research and there are a lot of conflicting views. Some says just go with the regular tire and save weight, cause there really isn’t much difference in the UST and non UST tires. Although, I have also heard some say that the UST tire provides some more sidewall rigidity and doesn’t make the tire feel so squirmy.

    What do you guys think and advice would be much appreciated.

  2. #2
    No Clue Crew
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    If you think you're going to stick with the DT Swiss rims, go with the DT Swiss kit. I've run it and it's quite nice, though it's not cheap ($50 per wheel, all inclusive). I don't personally care much for DT due to easy rim denting here, but if that's what you're running, their kit is quite nice.

    That kit will seal up very nice with most UST or non-UST tires. I typically run non-UST personally.

  3. #3
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    Or for $3 go and buy a roll of Gorilla tape, then a tubeless valve stem for another $5

    I'm not running the same rims as you, but worked like a charm and sealed up the first time with no trouble for me.

    I prefer UST just for the tougher sidewalls (which I seem to tear a lot of). Maybe try it with the non UST tires you already have and see how you like that before spending on a new set.

  4. #4
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    Thats a pretty good idea with the gorilla tape...any specific type of gorilla tape? So, just slap that gorilla tape over the spoke holes and fit the tubeless valve stem? Anyone else have any luck with this?

  5. #5
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    Do a search on "ghetto tubeless" and you'll find plenty of info. The DT Swiss system is pretty slick. I had rolled a couple tires off the sidewall using ghetto on DT Swiss rims. When I switched to their tubeless system, had no further issues.

    That's not to say ghetto is bad; I've used it on a bunch of rims. Just saying the DT system is pretty nice for the coin.

  6. #6
    parenting for gnarness
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    i've got the dt swiss 5.1. I've used the stans, and for the last 2 yrs ghetto tubeless with pipe wrap. I've got 2 26inch stan's rim strips I'll sell you far cheaper than stan's will - pm me if interested. i agree these rims are not the best, but for some stupid reason I haven't replaced them.

    like other said, search for ghetto tubeless. Lots and lots of threads on the topic. There are divergent opinions on all aspects - tape, strips, stems, spunk, tubeless rims vs. conversion. There is no right answer, you will need to study and experiment with what ultimately works for you.

  7. #7
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    Try searching "gorilla tubeless" too.

  8. #8
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    Just the 1 in wide roll of Gorilla tape from your local Lowe's (Home Depot and ACE neither had the 1in wide variety). Perfect size for laying down in that channel.

  9. #9
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    Gorilla tape...

    Use a 1'' width rather than the 2'' this guy uses.

    Last edited by eatdrinkride; 07-31-2010 at 12:14 PM. Reason: Gorilla tape

  10. #10
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    I have your exact rims and Use one inch gorilla tape, Havn't had a problem in over a year. Just clean the inside of the rim where the spoke holes are and you shouldn't have a problem because that gorilla tape is super sticky and strong. Keep the tape tight as you wrap your rim, I went around once and it seals perfect but you may want to wrap it twice. Now just throw stans in the tire and hit it with a compressor and it should seal no problem. The only complaint is the dt swiss rims are soft, I have several side dings on the rim that have physically bent the rim lip but I still have not blown a tire off.
    2011 Euro Gold Demo 8

  11. #11
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    The best way to go tubeless is to go UST all the way. For 50 you might find a ust rim instead of those silly kits. I fought with tubeless conversions for a year before putting real UST mavic 819 rims and UST tires to match. All those "tubeless ready" tires are really regular tires that accept sealant without problems.

    UST is a specification on bead diameter, sidewall sealing and rim profile that all work together to make a optimal setup for tubeless. Messing around with Ghetto tubeless, rim strips and other shenanigans is a hobbyists pastime. (Been there done that). While some of these setups work fine, there are too many variables (rim profile, tire compound, etc) that can cause problems down the road. Plus you never know if your new tire is going to seal with stans or just weep out the sidewalls forever. My UST tires hold air like a regular tubed tire, only needing inflation once a week or so.

    The only tires I have had set a bead without CO2 has been ust tires on ust rims. The second best reliable flat preventer is Stans or Slime in tubes.

  12. #12
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    Thanks guys for all the good info with the gorilla tape...I am definitly going to try this, but just had one question. Should I use the stans stem or go with that ghetto version by cutting an old stem from a tube? Does the stans stem mount directly to the rim and doesnt require the stans rim strips? Also, does anyone have any good suggestions for UST specific tires for our desert riding conditions here in AZ? I am currently running a 2.35 nevegal in the front and a small block 8 in the back. Thanks again for all the good info.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by barnesie
    Thanks guys for all the good info with the gorilla tape...I am definitly going to try this, but just had one question. Should I use the stans stem or go with that ghetto version by cutting an old stem from a tube? Does the stans stem mount directly to the rim and doesnt require the stans rim strips? Also, does anyone have any good suggestions for UST specific tires for our desert riding conditions here in AZ? I am currently running a 2.35 nevegal in the front and a small block 8 in the back. Thanks again for all the good info.
    I used gorilla tape to seal my 355s. Couldn't get Stans tape to work on Stans rims. Obviously user error, but either way the gorialla tape is working perfectly. This is Stans valves.

    For tires, I had great luck with Maxxis Ignitor UST...but they were just too heavy for me. They wore very well in the desert and would plow through anything.

  14. #14
    My other ride is your mom
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    as others have said......folks who have great experiences on some tires (Like the ignitors above)....others will have horrible experiences on the same tires (like me)

    It all depends on the geometry of your rim and the tire make/model.

    this is an experiment and requires failure until success......thats the reward after the bitter....stick with it and experiment and you'll find what is right for you and what is right for the rims you have.

  15. #15
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    I used the stans valve stem with my gorilla tape setup. No stans strips or anything. It can really seal nicely when you tighten it up.. I'm sure any of the other tubeless valve stems would too. You could probably use a valve stem out of an old tube if you were careful sealing it with the tape. I used a tubeless valve stem just to be sure it would seal.

    Maad is right on about it being a process of experimentation. You are just going to have to experiment and find the right combination of durability,
    weight, price, etc.

    I have found that I love a 2.3 ust geax dhea on the rear. For the front I'm using a geax neuron 2.3 dh/fr, which is really tough but really heavy. It really depends so much on your riding style. I can tell you what works for me.. But doesn't mean it will for you

  16. #16
    parenting for gnarness
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    Quote Originally Posted by barnesie
    Thanks guys for all the good info with the gorilla tape...I am definitly going to try this, but just had one question. Should I use the stans stem or go with that ghetto version by cutting an old stem from a tube? Does the stans stem mount directly to the rim and doesnt require the stans rim strips? Also, does anyone have any good suggestions for UST specific tires for our desert riding conditions here in AZ? I am currently running a 2.35 nevegal in the front and a small block 8 in the back. Thanks again for all the good info.
    i do not see the need for UST specific tires, but that's an easy thing to try once and then try another. you will weep a little out the sidewalls with non-ust. i mix my own, so dont mind using a lot and i probably overwater knowing that i will weep some fluid. trial and error.

    stan's strips have valve stems on them. i strongly suggest the stan's (or comparable) tubeless valve for 2 reasons - they have removable cores which make refills much easier since you do not need to break the bead, and they have a nice built-up cone of rubber which seals up the rim. you can make do with grommets or tape etc, but the valve stem will take more abuse so that is a better part to invest in, imo. they are also reusable.

  17. #17
    Break it, Fix it, Ride it
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    I'm a Gorilla taper too. It has worked well for me and I wish I knew about this 1" wide tape. I keep cutting the 2" that is here at my local ACE. Kind of a pain. Trial and error is key but success can be easily had. I've done both my 26" and 29" tires with my own sealant brew too. I've used old tire stems without issue. You can't fill through the stem, but breaking the bead for a few inches hasn't been much of an issue.

    However, the worst thing about tubeless, that I never heard about before doing it, was that if the tire goes flat from not sealing and the bead dries, you'll have to peel off all the latex from the bead to make a new seal. I've found this rather annoying during the learning curve. But I digress and still recommend tubeless. Won't go back to tubes anytime soon!

    Patience, persistence and a compressor will bring you success. (Don't forget the soapy water, either.)
    Today's the day I eat bikes.

  18. #18
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    http://paradigmhosting.net/yes_tubes/

    Works as advertised for years and years. Pretty cheap too.
    i never thought i'd be 43 and living here......i kinda wanted to be a rockstar..." Mark Hendershot

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by ggnarl
    The best way to go tubeless is to go UST all the way. For 50 you might find a ust rim instead of those silly kits. I fought with tubeless conversions for a year before putting real UST mavic 819 rims and UST tires to match. All those "tubeless ready" tires are really regular tires that accept sealant without problems.

    UST is a specification on bead diameter, sidewall sealing and rim profile that all work together to make a optimal setup for tubeless. Messing around with Ghetto tubeless, rim strips and other shenanigans is a hobbyists pastime. (Been there done that). While some of these setups work fine, there are too many variables (rim profile, tire compound, etc) that can cause problems down the road. Plus you never know if your new tire is going to seal with stans or just weep out the sidewalls forever. My UST tires hold air like a regular tubed tire, only needing inflation once a week or so.

    The only tires I have had set a bead without CO2 has been ust tires on ust rims. The second best reliable flat preventer is Stans or Slime in tubes.
    You have some good points, and some really ignorant ones "other shenanigans is a hobbyists pastime." --there are so many factors involved, and equipment used are just a few. The real factors are- how and where you ride and how the install is performed.

    How and where you ride is probably the most important- because this determines the equipment you should use. For those who never learned finesse- most non-UST tires will tear on rocks, burp or blow sidewall or blow tire completely. Same goes for the heavy riders. If one of your reasons for going tubeless is pinch flats- go for the best sidewall construction you can and find a tire/rim combo (through research on here or your LBS) that will work the best for you. There is no magic product that works for everyone- you may need to experiement a bit to find the best set up. If you float like a butterfly or weigh as much as one- you can get away with murder on your setup. I am the latter (on both accounts!) and I use the lightest non-UST tires from Maxxis on my Fisher Rig (hardtail) and have only sliced one sidewall at Estrella and after perfecting my install- have not burped once. I used a ghetto tubeless conversion- it works for me. Install is important too. Have a shop that is VERY familiar with tubeless. Just because they sell Stan's does not mean they know how to install it. THis is the benefit of going with your LBS- they have the product AND the know how. My preference is Swiss American- Nick knows tubeless. There are certainly other shops in the valley that are good at it too.

    Good luck- I love running tubeless and even put Stan's into my road bike tubes. It may not work for everyone- but there are so many options out there- the only challenge is finding the right one for you.
    Find a ride on FB> AZ MTB

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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by midget
    http://paradigmhosting.net/yes_tubes/

    Works as advertised for years and years. Pretty cheap too.
    And just like advertised, when you poke a hole in them they go flat.

    I had one of my tires(Rampage) set up ghetto tubeless with 20" split tube. When I took it off it had 27 spines in it(that I could find) Lord knows how many actual holes had been put into it, as I just let them stay in. Some may have gotten pulled out while riding, and some may have been "in and out" punctures that simply got sealed up instantly.

    I would be willing to bet that in total there were probable 40 sealed up punctures in this one tire. Now double that to account for the other tire, and you end up with 80 times having to stop and change tubes during a ride. Tubes? Thanks, but no thanks!

  21. #21
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    easy there. clearly Midget was joking around....as the link is pretty cheeky as well.

  22. #22
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    [ignorance start]
    I've just learned about tubeless over the last few months since I've been on this board but my understanding was UST tires and rims needed to be used together. So, I apparently don't know the difference in UST vs nonUST rims and tires. I read above that UST tires have a thicker sidewall but I'm now guessing that that is about the only difference, thus they can be used on nonUST rims?

    I always figured that UST tires were designed to hold a seal on UST rims whereas nonUST tires are just designed to stay on nonUST rims.
    [/ignorance end]


    Still learning... and I'll be going tubeless soon...

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by big0mike
    [ignorance start]
    I've just learned about tubeless over the last few months since I've been on this board but my understanding was UST tires and rims needed to be used together. So, I apparently don't know the difference in UST vs nonUST rims and tires. I read above that UST tires have a thicker sidewall but I'm now guessing that that is about the only difference, thus they can be used on nonUST rims?

    I always figured that UST tires were designed to hold a seal on UST rims whereas nonUST tires are just designed to stay on nonUST rims.
    [/ignorance end]


    Still learning... and I'll be going tubeless soon...
    UST tires and rims BOTH have a specific shape to the bead area, to create an airtight bead interface. With a true UST tire and rim, they will hold air without sealant, but most use sealant for punctures. They are heavier with thicker sidewalls usually.

    Tubeless ready tires have a bead that is shaped like a UST bead, so it interfaces with the same airtight seal as a UST tire/rim setup, but the sidewalls are more like a regular tire, and so they have to have sealant to hold air. Lighter, and thinner than UST, but sometimes have extra sidewall protection compared to a regular tire, but not always.

    When you start mixing UST tires with regular rims, and regular tires with UST rims is where you get problems and confusion.

    The rule of thumb that I follow is this. If it is not UST tire to UST rim, then you should use a sealing strip. If I use a UST rim and regular tire, I use a Stan's strip, or a 20" split tube to make a reliable bead seal. If I use a regular rim with regular or UST tire, again, a sealing strip is necessary because of the spoke holes and to make a bead seal.

    Now the exception to the rule. If you use a Stan's rim like the Flow, then you can use his yellow tape and a regular tire.

    In all cases, if I set up a regular tire, I never go over 40psi!!!

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by midget
    http://paradigmhosting.net/yes_tubes/

    Works as advertised for years and years. Pretty cheap too.

    I love this! I'm one of those who still doesn't get tubeless. If you are going to ride over cactuses and such, run slime. If you are pinch flatting, pump up your tires. Jeez.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by supermoto
    I love this! I'm one of those who still doesn't get tubeless. If you are going to ride over cactuses and such, run slime. If you are pinch flatting, pump up your tires. Jeez.
    Slime simply does not work all that effectively. Not in tubes anyway.

    My girlfriend was using tubes when I met her, and I was changing tires for her once or twice every ride we went on, until I told her that she had to go tubeless if we were going to continue "date riding" .(not to be confused with "date raping" )

    She even tried Slime tubes, and they were very inconsistent on sealing. She still got flats all the time. I suspect that Slime does not work as well in a tube, because the tube can just stretch, and still let air out, where a tire simply seals up. All her Slime tubes did was make a mess in the tire, and still go flat.

    Yet Slime mixed in my homebrew seals up punctures well. Again, because it is a different ballgame when used in a tire vs a tube.

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