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  1. #1
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    Fox Forks ....No longer made in the USA?

    I guess there is still White Bros.



    Improve operating and supply chain efficiencies
    We intend to improve operating margins in the medium term by enhancing our design and production processes to increase efficiencies, reducing new product time to market and lowering production costs. Specifically, we have begun the process of moving a majority of the manufacturing of our mountain bike products to Taiwan and intend to complete this process in 2015. We believe this transition to Taiwan, once completed, will shorten production lead times to our mountain bike OEM customers, improve supply chain efficiencies and reduce manufacturing costs.


    FORM S-1

  2. #2
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    Re: Fox Forks ....No longer made in the USA?

    Only loyalty now is to the stockholders... Gotta cut costs to pay those dividends. Kinda surprised it took this long to be honest considering the size of fox.
    Here is the thing about equality, everyone's equal when they're dead. - Gavroche, Les Misérables

  3. #3
    dirt visionary
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    I figured the would have learned from others mistakes..I remember another iconic brand moving production and losing alot of their faithful customers . I was one of them .
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by clockwork View Post
    I figured the would have learned from others mistakes..I remember another iconic brand moving production and losing alot of their faithful customers . I was one of them .
    I hear you. Today, I refuse to buy another Cannondale product; all I have from them, is their awesome vintage stuff.
    "The ONLY person who needs to race.....is the entrant"

  5. #5
    blog hogs
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    I don't think of it as another bike company selling out.
    I think about how screwed up our economy is that it's sooooooo much cheaper for them to do this.
    Ignore them till they go away.It's corporate policy.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by blog hogs View Post
    I don't think of it as another bike company selling out.
    I think about how screwed up our economy is that it's sooooooo much cheaper for them to do this.

    Well it's going to be even more screwed up with more people being unemployed , could be a reason the unemployment level doesn't drop. It comes down to corporate greed and shows just how much these corporations value their employees.


    This year.............here are just a few moving to Taiwan or China

    Jones bikes
    Spot Brand bikes
    Club ride cycling Apparel

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    Too bad Fox... I like you but mostly because you are USA made. After paying $600 for a Rockshox that had crooked lowers and them not being able to remedy it because all of their production that year had crooked lowers I am definitely for whatever is cheaper when it comes from Taiwan.
    Killing it with close inspection.

  8. #8
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    Re: Fox Forks ....No longer made in the USA?

    Quote Originally Posted by FireLikeIYA View Post
    Too bad Fox... I like you but mostly because you are USA made. After paying $600 for a Rockshox that had crooked lowers and them not being able to remedy it because all of their production that year had crooked lowers I am definitely for whatever is cheaper when it comes from Taiwan.
    I doubt the retail on fox will drop despite the move.
    Here is the thing about equality, everyone's equal when they're dead. - Gavroche, Les Misérables

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigkat273 View Post
    I doubt the retail on fox will drop despite the move.
    I won't drop. Guess who is paying for their move? Uh-huh....
    "The ONLY person who needs to race.....is the entrant"

  10. #10
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    When people demand the lowest possible price coupled with the need to maximize shareholder returns there is little choice.

  11. #11
    Big Gulps, Alright!
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    I wonder if the taiwanese-made ones will get full travel?
    Axle Standards Explained

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  12. #12
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    Asia doesn't have the obstacles that North America is saddled with.... Safety standards, labour unions, taxation, environmental legeslation, etc.... The American dream is gone, the Asian dream has begun. Time to spectate and enjoy the mediocrity until the Asians handcuff themselves with the same rules.

  13. #13
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    totally OT, I know, but i was reading a car magazine the other day and came across this message from the CEO of Weathertech.
    http://www.weathertech.com/assets/1/...o_you_1212.pdf
    impressive words. Seems like he's putting his money where is mouth is too since it's very likely that making floor mats in somewhere else is cheaper per unit.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Todd- View Post
    Asia doesn't have the obstacles that North America is saddled with.... Safety standards, labour unions, taxation, environmental legeslation, etc.... The American dream is gone, the Asian dream has begun. Time to spectate and enjoy the mediocrity until the Asians handcuff themselves with the same rules.
    It's already begun. There was a dot-com boom/bust....there will also be an Asian mfg boom/bust. Wait for it.....
    "The ONLY person who needs to race.....is the entrant"

  15. #15
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    This is a good move for them. Maybe the forks will work better now?

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by redmr2_man View Post
    This is a good move for them. Maybe the forks will work better now?
    Good possibility. Taiwan craftsmanship and skill blows away, that of Communist, Mainland China. In fact - if Fox went to China....I'd never buy them again.
    "The ONLY person who needs to race.....is the entrant"

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by redmr2_man View Post
    This is a good move for them. Maybe the forks will work better now?
    I actually question whether or not some of their recent issues are from overseas manufacturing. I have read several rumors over the past couple of years online that they already started sourcing the lowers and uppers from overseas and assembling everything here... I contacted them twice before whether their forks were Made in the USA and both times they responded that they are produced in the US or something of that nature... They wouldn't say they are made in the USA.

    Quote Originally Posted by Azpilot View Post
    I guess there is still White Bros.
    I contacted White Bros. last year to inquire where their product is made. They informed me that they source from overseas and do the final machining in the U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by -Todd- View Post
    Asia doesn't have the obstacles that North America is saddled with.... Safety standards, labour unions, taxation, environmental legeslation, etc.... The American dream is gone, the Asian dream has begun. Time to spectate and enjoy the mediocrity until the Asians handcuff themselves with the same rules.
    Relevant article - 29% of San Francisco air pollution comes from Asia.


    I guess, however, if they are an OEM supplier this transition makes sense. Why import core pieces and assemble in the U.S. only to ship back overseas to be boxed with the bike. I believe this is the loss of infrastructure in the U.S. that they all warned us about...
    Last edited by FireLikeIYA; 08-21-2013 at 11:19 PM.
    Killing it with close inspection.

  18. #18
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    Re: Fox Forks ....No longer made in the USA?

    Quote Originally Posted by FireLikeIYA View Post
    I actually question whether or not some of their recent issues are from overseas manufacturing. I have read several rumors over the past couple of years online that they already started sourcing the lowers and uppers from overseas and assembling everything here...
    Ah the old made in the USA with foreign components. Slapping together forks probably pays what $10-$12/hr? Although they could be taking cues from the auto industry and paying folks with only hs diplomas $40ish/hr to tighten down bolts. Could help explain the ridiculous cost of suspension components.
    Here is the thing about equality, everyone's equal when they're dead. - Gavroche, Les Misérables

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigkat273 View Post
    Ah the old made in the USA with foreign components. Slapping together forks probably pays what $10-$12/hr? Although they could be taking cues from the auto industry and paying folks with only hs diplomas $40ish/hr to tighten down bolts. Could help explain the ridiculous cost of suspension components.
    I'm sure the cost to the consumer for their forks will decrease as soon as they start manufacturing in Taiwan.

  20. #20
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    As unfortunate as it is, I can see why they would do it. Obviously everything is cheaper, and now they are much closer to their main customers. Makes a ton of sense on paper, unfortunately.

    Also, unfortunately, almost nothing is fully made here. To be legally 'made in the USA', you are able to import essentially all parts and slap them together here. There is only a small percentage of the work that needs to be done here.

    I remember one day when a US bike switched to overseas manufacturing and the bikes turned out better, unfortunately.
    “Think of bicycles as rideable art that can just about save the world.”
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigkat273 View Post
    Ah the old made in the USA with foreign components. Slapping together forks probably pays what $10-$12/hr? Although they could be taking cues from the auto industry and paying folks with only hs diplomas $40ish/hr to tighten down bolts. Could help explain the ridiculous cost of suspension components.
    Yes. I'm not sure if everyone else knows this, but it's not suspension techs that are putting your fork together. It's minimum paid workers that know nothing about the products they are making, except which parts fit together and how to torque them, etc. These aren't the people you get on the phone when you call up Fox...ever.

    We demand they move to asia. We demand this because we have mutual funds and invest in their companies, in addition to others in the money system, we demand they maximize profits and bring the next innovation, we demand this by buying their products and we expect lighter and better performing products the next year. It's the cycle of capitalism.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  22. #22
    Cleavage Of The Tetons
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    If you want pride, buy 'Mercian.
    If you want consistent quality, tolerances, and a fair price, unfortunately, overseas is the only way anymore.
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    And then we eat them."

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zachariah View Post
    Good possibility. Taiwan craftsmanship and skill blows away, that of Communist, Mainland China. In fact - if Fox went to China....I'd never buy them again.
    idk man, the 16yr old chinese boy that made my frame (and probably made 25 a day for the last seven years of his life) did a pretty good job.

  24. #24
    Cleavage Of The Tetons
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azpilot View Post
    I'm sure the cost to the consumer for their forks will decrease as soon as they start manufacturing in Taiwan.
    Only the low-mid tier, most likely.
    "We LOVE cows! They make trails for us.....

    And then we eat them."

  25. #25
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    Whatevs....you can build thousand dollar fork parts here or over there....but if your non-existent/functional QA process allows for forks to go out with improper oil levels, faulty seals and more....does it really matter where it's made?

  26. #26
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    At least you can still send your poorly performing $1000 Fox forks to an American suspension tuner like Push or Bike Co and get them working properly... for $250 of course.

  27. #27
    How much further ???
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    Another problem is how many Americans are willing to work in a factory anymore? Even the lazy are demanding ridiculous hourly rates and its much easier to just sit back and collect your entitlements from the government. In my opinion by electing our governement officials, on both sides of the aisle, that have no backbone and dont encourage anyone to "learn to fish" for themselves we all as Americans have played a part in corporations moving oversees.

    Just my 2 cents.
    Last edited by Douger-1; 08-21-2013 at 11:34 AM.
    “Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did." Mark Twain

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zachariah View Post
    It's already begun. There was a dot-com boom/bust....there will also be an Asian mfg boom/bust. Wait for it.....
    Western Africa is picking up steam. Once they get the infrastructure I'm sure we'll start to see things swing.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azpilot View Post
    "We currently have limited manufacturing operations at our Taiwan facility, where we presently manufacture our adjustable seat post"

    Ha, it did not drop the price of their $400 seat post .

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevland View Post
    Western Africa is picking up steam. Once they get the infrastructure I'm sure we'll start to see things swing.
    I think we'll see some ripples in Africa, but there's still a lot of Asia left to squeeze. I'm thinking we'll be seeing a lot of stuff move out of China and into Vietnam and other Southeast Asian countries first.

  31. #31
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    but the question is will it be subtle,, or will they be really perky ripples?

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by In2falling View Post
    "We currently have limited manufacturing operations at our Taiwan facility, where we presently manufacture our adjustable seat post"

    Ha, it did not drop the price of their $400 seat post .
    If anything, fork prices may rise in order today for those turd-posts. Epic FOX fail.
    "We LOVE cows! They make trails for us.....

    And then we eat them."

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by tysonnemb View Post
    To be legally 'made in the USA', you are able to import essentially all parts and slap them together here. There is only a small percentage of the work that needs to be done here.
    I don't believe that is true. They can claim "USA made" (which means nothing) but they can't claim "Made in the USA".

    Complying with the Made in USA Standard | BCP Business Center

    excerpts:

    the product must be "all or virtually all" made in the U.S.

    "All or virtually all" means that all significant parts and processing that go into the product must be of U.S. origin. That is, the product should contain no — or negligible — foreign content.
    Killing it with close inspection.

  34. #34
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    If people really cared, they'd at least buy X-fusion, who undersell fox for very similar stuff. Course I don't think they really do.

    I will likely never buy fox stuff, except OEM, and even then it gives me pause. Luckily my new bike came with the new Pike, but the CTD on the rear is crappy.

    -C is way too much compression damping, useless for anything but the road.
    -T has good low-speed support/chassi stability, but the transition to high speed is crap and it kicks more on bumps rather than absorbs. The rebound setting is also not adequate if you set it for the "D" setting, so flipping to "T" leaves it bouncing harder than it should be due to poor high speed transition and under-rebound damped.
    -D is the supple setting, yet the chassi stability is terrible, so lots of wallow and blowing through travel in depressions/g-outs.

    My last shock was an avalanche and it was like the "T" setting with the "D" high-speed suppleness/bump absorbing. For the life of me I can't figure out why fox can't figure out how to use decent compression circuits after 15 or so years, I mean avalanche has been doing this from the beginning. It's not like this is a recent invention in the history of the world, and now CCDB and others are making good adjustable air shocks with decent damping circuits. Fox is too concerned about propedal/ctd levers and switches and crap to focus on real good damping unfortunately.

    And then there was the trailwreck of fork seals and simply not sealing the fork with proper seals and doing any and everything to avoid having to use proper oil seals like marzocchi and RS used. They may have kind of figured it out finally and the non-pressure oil-seal type of seal is becoming the norm NOW that we've changed over to closed cartridges, but they couldn't put two and two together to figure out that open-carts+no real oil seals=bad idea.

    I'd like to like to their products, as they seem to try and put very good damping systems in there, but literally all the fork manufacturers have figured out how to do this, and fox isn't ahead of the game here like when they first got on the scene.

    The coil rear shocks are usually ok, that's about as far as I'll go, but now with such good stuff avail again from many manufacturers, I'd rather support others. Fox has been making their parts overseas for a while now anyways. I got a friend who's been on the "inside" with them.

    So I'll probably send the shock to Push during the winter or get a CCDB. It's evidently way too much to ask to have damping circuits on your air shock that you can adjust and tune like your fork.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  35. #35
    My other ride is your mom
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    I'm getting my TALAS back from PUSH today.....looking forward to it working right for the first time.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireLikeIYA View Post
    I don't believe that is true. They can claim "USA made" (which means nothing) but they can't claim "Made in the USA".

    Complying with the Made in USA Standard | BCP Business Center

    excerpts:

    the product must be "all or virtually all" made in the U.S.

    "All or virtually all" means that all significant parts and processing that go into the product must be of U.S. origin. That is, the product should contain no — or negligible — foreign content.
    When I worked for a manufacturing company, there was a certain amount of work that had to be done within the US for it to be considered "made in the USA". I apologize for not remembering the exact number, but we would have the metal melted in China, process started in China, shipped to our US plant, finished and packaged and shipped to the end user. Keep in mind that my product was a portion of what the end user would sell and advertise as "made in the USA".

    There is another standard (DFARS complience, multiple levels) where everything has to be done stateside, including metal being melted, etc, and documentation was required. This was reserved for government contracts. Was there a price difference? Huge.

    This company shifted a majority of its operations to China, and yours truley lost their job because of it.
    “Think of bicycles as rideable art that can just about save the world.”
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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maadjurguer View Post
    I'm getting my TALAS back from PUSH today.....looking forward to it working right for the first time.
    if manufacturing of those is moved from Taiwan to Manila, they will have to rename it the PHALAS.
    did you know they dont even make the envelopes there?

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