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  1. #1
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    Flagstaff Trail Work this weekend!! Saturday 9/11/10!

    Hey MTBRers!

    Come help restore the trophy for "most participants" to its rightful owners, MOUNTAIN BIKERS, at this year's Pedals vs. Pistons vs. Horseshoes vs. Hiking Boots event!

    We are constructing new trail that will connect the top of Upper/Super Moto at Secret Trail to the top of the Upper Ft. Valley Trail/Rocky Moto/7777 at Pipeline Road in Ft. Valley. Flagstaff Biking Organization (pedals) will be working with the Coconino Trail Riders (motos/pistons), The Coconino Horsemen's Alliance (equestrians/horseshoes) and the Northern Arizona Audubon Society (hiking boots). The motos have been taking this trophy home for the last few years. Let's not let that mistake be repeated!

    Please see this link for details, meeting time and location. Free coffee, free lunch, good times, new friends and we are building an awesome trail.

    http://flagstaffbiking.org/2010/08/2...dubon-society/

    To all y'all in Phoenix who ride up here in the summer, this is a great opportunity to put a little back into the trails. The motos have been winning because the Phoenix moto guys (Arizona Trail Riders) come up and augment the Coconino Trail Rider's numbers. We need your help!

    To those who get it, I am expecting a 700 Club membership promotion for bringing this up here...

  2. #2
    dirt visionary
    Reputation: clockwork's Avatar
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    Yeah I have seem how they bash the mtb user group in flag on their moto sites. Its a cool odd looking trophy though
    Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of
    arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body.

  3. #3
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    Clockwork...it is all in good fun, if I am correct in guessing what you are referring to. I know those posters, and work with them frequently. No harm intended, in fact the opposite. If the ribbing gets more folks out, all the better.

  4. #4
    dirt visionary
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    Prolly... I seen their headcounts for trailwork up there especially on parts of the az trail and mtbr's are out numbered over 10 to 1.
    Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of
    arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body.

  5. #5
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    They've never had more motos than mtbs for an AZ Trail event, but AZ Trail is not moto, so they're just being good sports by showing up to National Trails Day events.

    That said, there were about 55 dirt bikers and 25 mountain bikers at last year's Pedals v Pistons v Horseshoes v Hiking boots event.

    A pretty high number of dirt bikers in Flagstaff are avid mtb riders as well.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by clockwork
    Prolly... I seen their headcounts for trailwork up there especially on parts of the az trail and mtbr's are out numbered over 10 to 1.

    what is your point? are you anti-moto?

  7. #7
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    I'm going to be there! STOKED to dig!

  8. #8
    26 ain't dead
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    I'll be there...but will be representing the piston power

    Gotta stay true to my roots, but as was said, its all in good fun...

  9. #9
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    Rode Secret Trail today. Came up to five motorcycles speeding towards me. None of them yielded and all of them twisted their throttles and shot rooster tails into the air as they drove off trail to pass. Recently, a motorcycle came speeding up Dog Food around a corner and we both had to swerve to avoid a collision. He stopped to explain that the Forest Service had kicked them off their favorite riding area and told them to ride in Fort Valley. He further stated that he expects there to be some accidents between motorcycles and other users and he blames the Forest Service for taking away other riding locations.

    Fort Valley Trails with multi-users and motorcycles are a serious accident just waiting to happen. The trails were never designed or built for motorized users. The turns are too tight for the speeds they ride at. The trail damage and deep ruts look like something from a ten year old unmaintained trail system. Plus, there are already motorcycle tracks on the new section of the AZ Trail in Fort Valley. There is no way to keep them off of the non-motorized trails. The Forest Service has treated motorized users badly and is now resorting to cramming them onto already over-crowded trails full of bikers, hikers and equestrians. The speed of the motorcycles will lead to a collision one day. Lawyers will get rich going after the Forest Service for allowing it to happen.

    Maybe with the support of the MTBR community, Motorized users can find a location for riding outside of Flagstaff, where other users are not around. We can all help lobby the Forest Service to allow them access to an area that they will be required to maintain, and that other users will not intrude on. If they don't take action soon, they might find the Forest Service won't listen to them, especially after there is a head-on collision between them and another user group. The Forest Service is already upset at all the recent trails being cut illegally in Fort Valley by motorcycles. They cut the new Upper Dog Food Trail and the new trail that connects between the top of Lower Moto and Rocky Moto, just to name two. The Forest Service hardly needs any more of an excuse to boot them out of Fort Valley altogether.


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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Prodigal Son
    Rode Secret Trail today. Came up to five motorcycles speeding towards me. None of them yielded and all of them twisted their throttles and shot rooster tails into the air as they drove off trail to pass. Recently, a motorcycle came speeding up Dog Food around a corner and we both had to swerve to avoid a collision. He stopped to explain that the Forest Service had kicked them off their favorite riding area and told them to ride in Fort Valley. He further stated that he expects there to be some accidents between motorcycles and other users and he blames the Forest Service for taking away other riding locations.

    Fort Valley Trails with multi-users and motorcycles are a serious accident just waiting to happen. The trails were never designed or built for motorized users. The turns are too tight for the speeds they ride at. The trail damage and deep ruts look like something from a ten year old unmaintained trail system. Plus, there are already motorcycle tracks on the new section of the AZ Trail in Fort Valley. There is no way to keep them off of the non-motorized trails. The Forest Service has treated motorized users badly and is now resorting to cramming them onto already over-crowded trails full of bikers, hikers and equestrians. The speed of the motorcycles will lead to a collision one day. Lawyers will get rich going after the Forest Service for allowing it to happen.

    Maybe with the support of the MTBR community, Motorized users can find a location for riding outside of Flagstaff, where other users are not around. We can all help lobby the Forest Service to allow them access to an area that they will be required to maintain, and that other users will not intrude on. If they don't take action soon, they might find the Forest Service won't listen to them, especially after there is a head-on collision between them and another user group. The Forest Service is already upset at all the recent trails being cut illegally in Fort Valley by motorcycles. They cut the new Upper Dog Food Trail and the new trail that connects between the top of Lower Moto and Rocky Moto, just to name two. The Forest Service hardly needs any more of an excuse to boot them out of Fort Valley altogether.


    last three...

    Fly Further To See by Wilderness
    I Have The Gun by Crime and the City Solution
    Roustabout by Bow Wow Wow
    Oh Christ, Not this again...............Take that hate somewhere else please.

  11. #11
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    damn, came up short at only 391...oh well.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona
    Oh Christ, Not this again...............Take that hate somewhere else please.
    Maybe if we ignore the problem it will go away. Just trust people to do the right thing. Sort of like trusting that campers up on Elden will properly put out their fires.

    The Forest Service told me that if one single accident occurs that results in litigation, someone going after the deepest pocket, which is the Forest Service, they would either close trails to a user group or make the trails one-way, or only force certain users into a M-W-F vs. T-Th-S schedule.

    They have done this all over the country, when they see too much conflict. Would you prefer to just wait for this to happen? Would you just poach the trails on days we are banned? Do you only ride a couple times a week and not really care about any restrictions? It's possible you are more a part of the problem than part of the solution.

    I can't help but think about all the posts about thinning the woods on Elden that were posted after the fire. Everyone had these strong opinions only after the mountain was scorched and trails were closed. Nobody was insisting on preventative actions prior to the fire. They sounded a lot like you do.

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    Honey, I've Found A Brand New Way by Bad Livers

  13. #13
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    Hey raisingarizona, you are gonna have to try much harder, you only got 203.

  14. #14
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    HeHe.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony
    Hey raisingarizona, you are gonna have to try much harder, you only got 203.
    If you have enough time to clown around on MTBR, do you also have enough free time to keep your promise to the Forest Service and make repairs to Lower Oldham that you caused? Getting a permit to run a race next year is in the balance. I suspect that will motivate you far more than making repairs to a trail you said you care very little for.

    Oh, another thing. Maybe you and raising arizona can help me find out who the local on MTBR was that ratted me out to the Forest Service, saying I violated the closure during the Schultz Fire. They must have been convincing because they sent LEO's out to arrest me as I rode in Fort Valley two days after the trails reopened.


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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Prodigal Son
    Getting a permit to run a race next year is in the balance. I suspect that will motivate you far more than making repairs to a trail you said you care very little for.
    Sounds like a threat

    And you keep saying the FS was out to arrest you but were you actually arrested? There's a difference between being questioned and being arrested. You did post some close-up photos of the fire and fire fighting efforts. Either way, you were out prior the closure order being enacted so what's the big deal?

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman
    Sounds like a threat

    And you keep saying the FS was out to arrest you but were you actually arrested? There's a difference between being questioned and being arrested. You did post some close-up photos of the fire and fire fighting efforts. Either way, you were out prior the closure order being enacted so what's the big deal?
    rocky:

    If anyone thinks the FS isn't monitoring MTBR on a daily basis they are mistaken. The FS obviously have a different opinion on some issues then some of us who use MTBR as a means of presenting our point of view w/o having to directly state our opinion to them directly.

    For example I believe the trail signage in Sedona can be improved to give riders and hikers a less confusing routing experience. The FS likes rock jails and posting a sign at the start and end of each trail. Unfortunately, there can be numerous intersections with other trails in the middle of the two signs, which leaves for multiple choices of other route options.

    I think the FS believes the tourist should know intuitively that when there is no rockjail on a trial that it may not be a system trail. Since there are some system trails w/o rockjails on them that logic doesn't always hold up.

    I personally believe the signage could be improved, but to date no one at the FS has ever articulated why the current Sedona system is superior to other systems out there. I have been told the Arizona Trail has a decent signage system that is better than what we have in Sedona.I have also been told the trail system in Bend, Oregon is pretty good and it uses a number system at every intersection.

    TD

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc
    rocky:

    If anyone thinks the FS isn't monitoring MTBR on a daily basis they are mistaken. The FS obviously have a different opinion on some issues then some of us who use MTBR as a means of presenting our point of view w/o having to directly state our opinion to them directly.

    For example I believe the trail signage in Sedona can be improved to give riders and hikers a less confusing routing experience. The FS likes rock jails and posting a sign at the start and end of each trail. Unfortunately, there can be numerous intersections with other trails in the middle of the two signs, which leaves for multiple choices of other route options.

    I think the FS believes the tourist should know intuitively that when there is no rockjail on a trial that it may not be a system trail. Since there are some system trails w/o rockjails on them that logic doesn't always hold up.

    I personally believe the signage could be improved, but to date no one at the FS has ever articulated why the current Sedona system is superior to other systems out there. I have been told the Arizona Trail has a decent signage system that is better than what we have in Sedona.I have also been told the trail system in Bend, Oregon is pretty good and it uses a number system at every intersection.

    TD
    Maybe so, which is why I question the mtbr tattle-tale story to the FS dealio.

    As for Sedona trail signage it's tricky. There's so many intersections that signing them all seems counterproductive. I've seen you mention the use of trees, if available, as opposed to rock jails. What's the Aerie Homeowners Association doing for signage on the Aeriie trail? Since they're contributing to the signage and kiosks do they have to play by FS rules or are they doing they're own thing?

  19. #19
    slower than you
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony
    damn, came up short at only 391...oh well.
    half a star is better than no star at all.
    "Let our people travel light and free on their bicycles." Ed Abbey
    http://www.rockychrysler.com/

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc
    rockjail
    oohh. and all this time i thot they were rockTRAPS.
    "Let our people travel light and free on their bicycles." Ed Abbey
    http://www.rockychrysler.com/

  21. #21
    My other ride is your mom
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    I may actually be available for this event.....my wife's hospitalization keeps me here or there depending on things beyond anyones control....would love to join.....I'm throwing down half a gauntlet on this one for joining if I can be there.....

  22. #22
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    So there is a good event coming up this weekend to help repair/build some trails? Awesome. Crap I can't make it.
    Got Daytons on the Motha Ship - Cube

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman
    Maybe so, which is why I question the mtbr tattle-tale story to the FS dealio.

    As for Sedona trail signage it's tricky. There's so many intersections that signing them all seems counterproductive. I've seen you mention the use of trees, if available, as opposed to rock jails. What's the Aerie Homeowners Association doing for signage on the Aeriie trail? Since they're contributing to the signage and kiosks do they have to play by FS rules or are they doing they're own thing?
    The Aerie Development has put maybe two signs on the Permimeter Fence trail. The sign says PUPLIC TRAIL. I think here have been very few riders on the Perimeter Fence trail due to it's remote location prior to the addition of the new Aerie Trail.

    In the future the trail of choice IMHO will be mainly the Cockscomb Extension trail that starts at the Aerie Red Rock Pass Parking Lot and connects in the middle to the Aerie Perimeter Fence Trail then ultimately to the Cockscomb/Rupp Intersection. It is a better choice mainly because the starting point of the trail is about a 300 yard ride from the end of the new Aerie trail, rather than a 600 plus yard ride on pavement from the new Aerie trail exit up to the Aerie Security Gate where the Aerie Perimeter Fence (Public Trail) starts.

    I need to do an amendment to the GPS track I currently am showing on EveryTrail.com to show what I consider to be the preferred routing to ride on as little pavement as possible. The new Cockcomb extention trail is a very nice Forest Service project that certainly needs to be pomoted better.

    TD

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockychrysler
    oohh. and all this time i thot they were rockTRAPS.
    RC:

    I personally believe they are storage sites for future materials to be used in the construction of water deverters and small jumps to increase the fun factor on relatively not so entertaining trails.

    I have been told that there may be a thinning of some Rock Traps on trails that have closely placed jails, that are obviously overly populated by these markers. Not sure it is a very high prioity, but at least it is a topic of discussion.

    TD

  25. #25
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    Pictures from Saturday's trail work:

    http://www.facebook.com/album.php?ai...id=88587390154

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