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  1. #1
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    Caution;  Merge;  Workers Ahead! Flagstaff GEM about to be lost - AZ Trail - SF Peaks

    EDIT: Communication with the people structuring the forest thinning has confirmed that the person in uniform who told us on the trail that all the painted tree would be cut down is wrong. The painted trees stay.

    Apologies. Very happy
    Last edited by Rollin'in'Zona; 08-16-2013 at 11:27 AM.

  2. #2
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    Rollin', you had your chance to vote for or against the Four Forest Restoration Initiative as a city bond last year (that is, if you are a resident). Not only that but it's largely funded by the city of Flagstaff so you are paying for it as well. Forest Initiative Plan Unveiled | Flagstaff Business & Online News | Northern Arizona Local Newspaper

    The comment period on the draft EIS ended on May 29th. For those interested more info can be found here: Four Forest Restoration Initiative - Planning Documents
    "Fart in a paper bag, after eating the #17 plate from filibertos. STRAVA!" M77Ranger.

  3. #3
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    The information I posted above is not entirely correct. The 10 million dollar bond passed by the city of Flagstaff is the Forest Health and Water Supply Protection Project.
    Project at a Glance | Flagstaff Watershed Protection Project

    It's a more focused effort on the Schultz Creek and Rio De Flag watersheds. It will treat new areas (mainly on Elden and Dry Lake Hills) as well as accelerate plans for other area that were already part of the Four Forest Restoration Initiative (4FRI).

    To the OP, I'm not sure what you are so fired up about. More than 90% of the AZ trail between Snowbowl Rd and Schultz Pass was routed on areas that have already been thinned. The big impact will be to Dry Lake Hills on trails like L. Gnarly, Schultz, upper Brookbank and Sunset. And it's a done deal and if you are so upset about it maybe you should go talk to some of your fellow Flagstaff neighbors who live downstream of the Schultz burn area.
    "Fart in a paper bag, after eating the #17 plate from filibertos. STRAVA!" M77Ranger.

  4. #4
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    Hey, at least the snow will melt faster.

  5. #5
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    Gotta pacify all those people that had to build their homes in the forest and now worry about a forest fire taking their homes.

  6. #6
    The .05 percent
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azpilot View Post
    Gotta pacify all those people that had to build their homes in the forest and now worry about a forest fire taking their homes.
    Or someone like me who lives in the area across from the peaks and does not want their house flooded because some valley dweller could not extinguish their camp fire and burns our forest down.
    29'ers are the scientologists of the MTB world

  7. #7
    Meatbomb
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    Those damn valley dwellers..

  8. #8
    Elitest thrill junkie
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    More people will solve everything!
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azpilot View Post
    Gotta pacify all those people that had to build their homes in the forest and now worry about a forest fire taking their homes.
    That's a pretty hubristic statement, to be mild. Calling it outright ignorant wouldn't be a stretch.

    Fire has always been, and will always be part of the normal, safe northern woods ecosystem. The problem is, the fires we see now don't have historical precedent. Back in the day, there were 5-10x less trees per acre, and they were big trees for the most part. There'd be regular under story fires which clean out the forest floor, but that was no problem since Ponderosa Pine has thick bark, deep roots, and it's foliage is high up.

    Now, we have 500-1000 trees per acre, of all sizes, and we're in a period of drought. Years and years of heavy handed fire suppression have left a lot of fuel on the ground. A fire starts, it burns hotter than it normally would, and it uses all those small, tightly packed trees to ladder up into the forest crown and there you go, a run away wildfire.

    Used to be, you'd only see that every hundred years or so, not the frequent crown fires we see today.

    Good news is, we now understand where we went wrong with forest management and with the correct amount of thinning and prescribed burns, the forest should go back to acting like it did pre-European settlement. And since the forest will be acting normal again, you won't see the massive fires and accompanying erosion and water quality issues that follow a hard burn.

  10. #10
    SamuraiBunnyGuy
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    this is bob barker reminding you to have your trees spayed or neutered.

  11. #11
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    Oh, if anybody is interested in some reading, Nature Conservancy had a good article about this:

    Nature Conservancy Magazine - Catching Fire

  12. #12
    My other ride is your mom
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    To the OP....another thread a week back or so clarified via the FS that those trees which are marked, are the ones to NOT be cut. I repeat....the orange slashes you see on the trees....mark those trees which are healthy and will be saved.

  13. #13
    Give it a crank
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    We all need haircuts once in a while, forests too.

  14. #14
    parenting for gnarness
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy_E View Post
    Nature Conservancy Magazine - Catching Fire

    why am I seeing cleavage shots of Jennifer Lawrence?

  15. #15
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    Research has shown that thinning does not help to stop wildfires, but actually causes them to spread. When a forest is thinned, the decrease in shade allows much more sunlight to reach the forest floor, causing the foliage and small trees to dry out, creating entire forests full of tinder.

    A 2003 study of another large blaze, the Hayman fire in Colorado in 2002, published as a case study by the Forest Service, showed that fires killed 50 percent of the trees in a natural, unthinned forest but killed 90 percent in a thinned forest, because the fire on the ground was hotter.

    Studies Find Danger to Forests in Thinning Without Burning | Bark

  16. #16
    SamuraiBunnyGuy
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    Quote Originally Posted by chollaball View Post
    why am I seeing cleavage shots of Jennifer Lawrence?
    more importantly,, why am i not?

  17. #17
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    EDIT: Communication with the people structuring the forest thinning has confirmed that the person in uniform who told us on the trail that all the painted tree would be cut down is wrong. The painted trees stay.

    Apologies. Very happy

  18. #18
    My other ride is your mom
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azpilot View Post
    Research has shown that thinning does not help to stop wildfires, but actually causes them to spread. When a forest is thinned, the decrease in shade allows much more sunlight to reach the forest floor, causing the foliage and small trees to dry out, creating entire forests full of tinder.

    A 2003 study of another large blaze, the Hayman fire in Colorado in 2002, published as a case study by the Forest Service, showed that fires killed 50 percent of the trees in a natural, unthinned forest but killed 90 percent in a thinned forest, because the fire on the ground was hotter.

    Studies Find Danger to Forests in Thinning Without Burning | Bark
    You're missing a key point here....and it's listed in the first line of the article: "Thinning forests without also burning accumulated brush and deadwood may increase forest fire damage rather than reduce it, researchers at the Forest Service reported in two recent studies."

    On the Coco, they are both thinning and burning accumulated brush/deadwood....and have been for a while now.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maadjurguer View Post
    You're missing a key point here....and it's listed in the first line of the article: "Thinning forests without also burning accumulated brush and deadwood may increase forest fire damage rather than reduce it, researchers at the Forest Service reported in two recent studies."

    On the Coco, they are both thinning and burning accumulated brush/deadwood....and have been for a while now.

    Good to know.

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