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  1. #1
    Good luck with that!
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    downhill race... with pie?

    a buddy at work was telling me about a downhill race in the in the sedona/cottonwood area that is 24 miles of downhill with some pie eating contest at the end.

    Has anyone heard of this race or is he blowing smoke up my @$$?

    Google didn't turn anything up.

  2. #2
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    Short Track Papago

    deets are there within

  3. #3
    Shred...it's the new drug
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    not all DH probably 50/50...

  4. #4
    My other ride is your mom
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    LOL....yeah....not all downhill

  5. #5
    Meatbomb
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    and not sedonuts or cottonwood .

  6. #6
    DFL>DNF>DNS
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    Not sure where the 24 miles is coming from either, looks like the route is starting at the top of Antelope Creek. AC to Rock Springs is more like 30 miles, not that I mind. More BCT singletrack the better. Either way, I'll be making a run for a slice-o-BCT pie!1
    I ride the crappy trails so you don't have to
    My Two Schillingsworth

  7. #7
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    mtb+pie+beer = brilliant

  8. #8
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    I definitely wouldn't call it a downhill race. Maybe enduroish in spots, but great singletrack.

    What ever you want to call it, it's going to be fun and I'm in.

  9. #9
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    Ride a DH bike. It will be so much more satisfying.
    Quote Originally Posted by azdog View Post
    I think he was born around the time of the Chernobyl fallout which would explain a lot.

  10. #10
    Just another half mile...
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    If anyone know the persons putting on this event, give them the heads up that BLM knows about it and will require a competive use permit to use the BCT. I know the Shorttrackpagago web site says it's an unofficial event, but it falls within BLM policy for Competive Use. See below for what BLM's definition of competive use. There still might be time to get a permit between now and the 30th. Fill out the PERMIT (Instuctions) and take it to the BLM office on north 7th Ave. You'll never know if a BLM LEO will show up.


    Competitive UseCompetitive Use means any organized, sanctioned, or structured use, event, or activity on public land in which two or more contestants compete and either: 1) participants register, enter, or complete an application for the event; or 2) a predetermined course or area is designated.

    Examples: OHV races, horse-endurance rides, mountain-bike races, rodeos.



    Quote Originally Posted by barroom hero View Post
    Short Track Papago

    deets are there within

  11. #11
    My other ride is your mom
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    ^^^^^Really???????

    So....I'm going to miss this fine event....really bummed about it because I FRIGGIN LOVE GRASSROOTS EVENTS over all the BS, spandex, pay 110 bucks for a water bottle and a bunch of robo fuel in a schwag bag surrounded by a bunch of Stravarsholes riding in a circle on the lamest piece of dirt ever.....but then I temper my "bum-ness" with the thought that I'm going to be spending a week over New Years in Paris......yeah, that's the kind of sucky compromise I'll place myself into time and time again...but I digress

    Long story short....I'm looking for things to do when I'm not drinking and one is to visit the Tuileries Garden which is where, during the French Revolution, Marie Antoinette and her hubby..some guy named Louis.....were remanded for recreation before they lost their heads.....since then it's been a place where Parisians gather to remember the revolution and tyranny of the powers that be over the Proletariat......and the below statue resides there......I hope you all feel the irony of EPIC's previous post alerting us to the BLM's knowledge of this"sanctioned" event....
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails downhill race... with pie?-paris_tuileries_garden_facepalm_statue.jpg  

    Last edited by Maadjurguer; 11-15-2012 at 10:02 AM.

  12. #12
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    lucky for us, it is going to be run just like the Arizona Endurance Series, where there will be less than 75 people and no need for a permit. Thanks for bringing it to the BLM's attention though.

  13. #13
    Shift less, Pedal more.
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    Do we get to choose what type of pie?
    I'd rather be hated for what I am, than loved for what I'm not......Dolemite.

  14. #14
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    So by BLM logic if you're on Strava or just have a destination in mind, you're racing!

  15. #15
    Just another half mile...
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    Not sure where 75 people came from, maybe on forest lands, but on BLM lands any organized, sanctioned, or structured use, event, or activity on public land is two or more contestants. Need to play by the rules that all other organizations do that use the BCT for events and races. If you want to keep it of the radar and not organized, don't put out a flyer on the web and have on-line registration. To the BLM and most other agencies, your time trial race looks like an organized event.

    Competitive Use: Competitive Use means any organized, sanctioned, or structured use, event, or activity on public land in which two or more contestants compete and either: 1) participants register, enter, or complete an application for the event; or 2) a predetermined course or area is designated.




    Quote Originally Posted by dirtybiker View Post
    lucky for us, it is going to be run just like the Arizona Endurance Series, where there will be less than 75 people and no need for a permit. Thanks for bringing it to the BLM's attention though.

  16. #16
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    Planning a fun, grassroots event has gotten incredibly lame, really fast.

  17. #17
    sprocket
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtybiker View Post
    Planning a fun, grassroots event has gotten incredibly lam, really fast.
    Are you saying someone here actually notified the BLM as to the happenings that are upcoming? What possible reason would there be to do that?

  18. #18
    My other ride is your mom
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    Cheese and Rice......I give up.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maadjurguer View Post
    Cheese and Rice......I give up.
    Why don't you go to Paris instead?

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maadjurguer View Post
    So....I'm going to miss this fine event....really bummed about it because I FRIGGIN LOVE GRASSROOTS EVENTS over all the BS, spandex, pay 110 bucks for a water bottle and a bunch of robo fuel in a schwag bag surrounded by a bunch of Stravarsholes riding in a circle on the lamest piece of dirt ever.....but then I temper my "bum-ness" with the thought that I'm going to be spending a week over New Years in Paris......yeah, that's the kind of sucky compromise I'll place myself into time and time again...but I digress

    Long story short....I'm looking for things to do when I'm not drinking and one is to visit the Tuileries Garden which is where, during the French Revolution, Marie Antoinette and her hubby..some guy named Louis.....were remanded for recreation before they lost their heads.....since then it's been a place where Parisians gather to remember the revolution and tyranny of the powers that be over the Proletariat......and the below statue resides there......I hope you all feel the irony of EPIC's previous post alerting us to the BLM's knowledge of this"sanctioned" event....
    Much too clever.

  21. #21
    My other ride is your mom
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    &:$((--@/@:$:$/$-"-@:$/@-"/$:$!,!,!,!.!'sks??€\^{^{€!|!|^,%]+{€,!,*]₯]€|!

  22. #22
    sprocket
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maadjurguer View Post
    &:$((--@/@:$:$/$-"-@:$/@-"/$:$!,!,!,!.!'sks??€\^{^{€!|!|^,%]+{€,!,*]₯]€|!
    so, do we get our 20 bucks back on this or WHAT?

  23. #23
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    @yeti: if we have to go that road, we will 100% refund the entry fee! We weren't doing it for profit to begin with..our only goal was to break even after the finish line party was all said and done

    we have a couple irons in the fire, we will let ya'll know ASAP

    ...and thanks for registering for our little sh!tshow!! much appreciated.

  24. #24
    Just another half mile...
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    Even grassroots event gotta follow the rules. It's not that big of a deal to fill out the permit and take it down to the BLM.

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtybiker View Post
    Planning a fun, grassroots event has gotten incredibly lame, really fast.

  25. #25
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    Attica, Atttica....!!!!!!

    If somebody ratted you out, that's some complete BS. Just ride your damn bike, and eat some pie.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Epicrider View Post
    Even grassroots event gotta follow the rules. It's not that big of a deal to fill out the permit and take it down to the BLM.
    WEAK!

    It's a lot more fun without permission. What if, say, an unspecified number of guys just happen to show up somewhere at the same time and they all decide to go for a ride together at a spirited pace? Where's the harm in having a "group ride?"

    Sad to say it, but the only reason I can remotely argue for a permit is so the BLM knows who's skull to crack when there's water bottles, beer cans, and block and gel packets everywhere. Not pointing fingers at anybody, but there's always a few of "those guys" in any group.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy_E View Post
    WEAK!

    It's a lot more fun without permission. What if, say, an unspecified number of guys just happen to show up somewhere at the same time and they all decide to go for a ride together at a spirited pace? Where's the harm in having a "group ride?"

    Sad to say it, but the only reason I can remotely argue for a permit is so the BLM knows who's skull to crack when there's water bottles, beer cans, and block and gel packets everywhere. Not pointing fingers at anybody, but there's always a few of "those guys" in any group.
    "Those guys" as in guys who purposely litter? Bulls*&t. No respectful mountain biker litters on purpose.
    Last edited by Casual Observer; 12-02-2012 at 05:03 PM.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  28. #28
    Ahhh the pain....
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    Yeah, I tend to agree that the purpose of a permit isn't entirely clear - if the approval of said permit is basically a "rubber stamp", gotta wonder why such a process exists(to provide jobs?). It very well could be that the BLM simply wants to know how the land is being used since they may have to report usage to gain funding, etc...
    It would be nice to hear more about this since I suspect we may need to get one for next years AES race. It sounds like for BLM lands, the 74 rider limit does not exist, but as long as you have a permit, you can as many as racers as you want?
    Anyway...the rebel in me says F the rules, but if it's relatively painless to follow them and perhaps good reason to do so, then fine...we probably should....
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  29. #29
    Just Joshin' ya!
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    Well, the website has removed almost all mention of it. Darn it. this was one I was really interested in doing and getting a few buddies to come with me.
    Getting a dropper post is like getting a bidet. I didn't know I needed one until I get one and boy, does my ass thank me.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raybum View Post
    Yeah, I tend to agree that the purpose of a permit isn't entirely clear - if the approval of said permit is basically a "rubber stamp", gotta wonder why such a process exists(to provide jobs?). It very well could be that the BLM simply wants to know how the land is being used since they may have to report usage to gain funding, etc...
    It would be nice to hear more about this since I suspect we may need to get one for next years AES race. It sounds like for BLM lands, the 74 rider limit does not exist, but as long as you have a permit, you can as many as racers as you want?
    Anyway...the rebel in me says F the rules, but if it's relatively painless to follow them and perhaps good reason to do so, then fine...we probably should....
    AES race? What ever are you talking about? I've never heard of such a thing.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevland View Post
    AES race? What ever are you talking about? I've never heard of such a thing.

    The first rule of AES...

  32. #32
    Good luck with that!
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    I' still going to do the ride... even if I'm by myself

  33. #33
    Meatbomb
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  34. #34
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    we just took down the web site so that we didn't get any more registration(and won't have to refund more cash if it comes to that)
    Unfortunately the permitting process isn't just a rubber stamp..it's a rubber stamp plus a whole bunch of cash.
    We are busting our ass to make this happen. I'll keep ya'll updated

  35. #35
    Meatbomb
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    So, I'm curious. If this thread had never been posted, would the BLM be aware of the event ?

  36. #36
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    wondered that myself

  37. #37
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    You folks could also send some of your 74-ish riders to trail work days and help with some of the maintenance of the same trail that you are having underground races on.

    We just put in some nice trail up near Copper Mountain

  38. #38
    Meatbomb
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    Does the BLM require a permit if 76 peeps show up for trail maintenance ?

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillbo View Post
    So, I'm curious. If this thread had never been posted, would the BLM be aware of the event ?
    Does anybody from BLM read MTBR?

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillbo View Post
    Does the BLM require a permit if 76 peeps show up for trail maintenance ?
    Yes, it's all taken care of before trail day. They also do all the environmental studies and everything else required before the construction begins.

  41. #41
    Ahhh the pain....
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtybiker View Post
    we just took down the web site so that we didn't get any more registration(and won't have to refund more cash if it comes to that)
    Unfortunately the permitting process isn't just a rubber stamp..it's a rubber stamp plus a whole bunch of cash.
    We are busting our ass to make this happen. I'll keep ya'll updated
    dirtybiker....send me an email when you get a chance; rhemmele at g mail dot come. I set up the AES ride this year and would like to learn a bit from your guys experience (how much $ for a permit?)....thx!
    Last edited by Raybum; 11-17-2012 at 07:02 PM.
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  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKA Monkeybutt View Post
    Yes, it's all taken care of before trail day. They also do all the environmental studies and everything else required before the construction begins.
    I still think you guys should have just called it a group ride and ran it at a spirited pace. 74 guys just happened to show up at the same time and now we're gonna ride together. You know how it is, what with the Facebook, Tweets, and all that other Interweb tubes and sorcery.

  43. #43
    My other ride is your mom
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    I can't hold my tongue any more:

    I'm pissed at the person who dripped the dime on this ride....

    I'm concerned that the BLM has a mission here and I agree that we can't have groups hapzardlly running races on their land without some kind of oversight....I get the rules

    I'm concerned because every time I ride with 3 of my friends on BLM land.....technically I'm breaking them.....so.....forgive my lackofafuggincare in my previous statement....no, I'm not really concerned....just trying to illustrate the absurdity of the whole mess.

    I am respectful of the land.....I think everyone gets this....and I'm respectful of the people I know who have put in a lot of time and effort putting in this trail out of nothingness.....this requires alignment with the BLM.....I get this.

    But what still sticks in my craw....is that someone dropped the dime on a grassroots.....should have been more underground....but, ohh well......kind of ride.....this is not good.

    It's not like we had Lance Armstrong and Miller 64 sponsoring the ride....this was a bunch of folks who had another rider we all know....who brews beer in his backyard.....agree that the "winner" gets to be called a "winner" and everyone else....including the winner....gets to eat pie....or not.

    Yeah....we should all be playing by the rules...but you know what....we all break them, especially when they're non-nonsensical.

    I break camping rules all the time...I camp in all sorts of places where I'm not meant to be....all the time. You know why....because I'm a single guy on a bike, with a sleeping bag that plops down after dark and is gone at daybreak. These rules were meant for RV's.....and they're not enforced for guys like me because I don't violate the "spirit" of the rule.

    And the BLM rules for rides....these were meant for competitive events....and by events....I mean COMPETITIVE.

    The pie ride....is competitive....not COMPETITIVE.

    I realize the BLM makes no distinction.....because govy's are not paid to think. But we do think....and here we are.

    So ask yourself....if you're reading this and you dropped the dime.....ask yourself why. Are you jealous....or do you truly find yourself the holder and enforcer of BLM regulation and sworn to upholding all use on BLM land? Because if you're neither....then you fail to see the spirit of the event....and this is truly the travesty.....because it's the spirit of the event which you can't kill....and will happen again.....and again....and again.

    You've just proven one thing which most folks know all along.....you've become irrelevant. I'm sorry if you're someone I know.....but I respectively disagree with you on this matter.

    et tu, Brute?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails downhill race... with pie?-800px-jean-l%E9on_g%E9r%F4me_-_the_death_of_caesar_-_walters_37884.jpg  


  44. #44
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    James,

    I don't think anyone turned in the race information to the BLM. They do have ways of finding things out.

    An unrelated example: One of the cabin owners up in the mountains was renting his place out (short term) without the special use permit and the county found out, now he needs to bring his cabin up to the same codes as a hotel since he put himself into that category without the use permit. No one ratted him out, the county found a single ad on CL. So someone at the county's job is to just cruise and look for violations. Crazy stuff.

  45. #45
    My other ride is your mom
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKA Monkeybutt View Post
    James,

    I don't think anyone turned in the race information to the BLM. They do have ways of finding things out.

    An unrelated example: One of the cabin owners up in the mountains was renting his place out (short term) without the special use permit and the county found out, now he needs to bring his cabin up to the same codes as a hotel since he put himself into that category without the use permit. No one ratted him out, the county found a single ad on CL. So someone at the county's job is to just cruise and look for violations. Crazy stuff.
    Jeff,


    Wow............indeed.....crazy

  46. #46
    Good luck with that!
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    How much cash does the BLM want? More than willing to pitch in for the cause. I know about 10 guys who have registered and want to ride, surely we can scrape up the funds

  47. #47
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    I went to the BLM site for BCT and... this:

    Permits, Fees, Limitations:
    There are no fees associated with trail use. Efforts are being made to mark the trail, however, trail signage is lacking in areas. Segments of the trail are not recommended for novice horseback riders. Some challenging terrain exists for mountain bikers. Cliffs exist along the trail south of the Black Canyon City Trailhead and north of Table Mesa.

    from []Black Canyon National Recreation Trail - BLM Arizona

    the link posted by epicrider goes to the Oregon office of the BLM...

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffggardner View Post
    I went to the BLM site for BCT and... this:

    Permits, Fees, Limitations:
    There are no fees associated with trail use. Efforts are being made to mark the trail, however, trail signage is lacking in areas. Segments of the trail are not recommended for novice horseback riders. Some challenging terrain exists for mountain bikers. Cliffs exist along the trail south of the Black Canyon City Trailhead and north of Table Mesa.

    from []Black Canyon National Recreation Trail - BLM Arizona

    the link posted by epicrider goes to the Oregon office of the BLM...
    Word!
    I'd rather be hated for what I am, than loved for what I'm not......Dolemite.

  49. #49
    Just another half mile...
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    No fees are for general trail use which does not include competive use or commercial use. Western Spirit is running about a dozen tours a year on the BCT and had to get a commenrcial use permit. Xterra had trail run back in March and had to get a competative use permit. As the word spreads how great the BCT is, more and more events will occur on the BCT and the BLM needs to control so that there isn't any conflicts and minimze impacts on the land and resources.


    Quote Originally Posted by jeffggardner View Post
    I went to the BLM site for BCT and... this:

    Permits, Fees, Limitations:
    There are no fees associated with trail use. Efforts are being made to mark the trail, however, trail signage is lacking in areas. Segments of the trail are not recommended for novice horseback riders. Some challenging terrain exists for mountain bikers. Cliffs exist along the trail south of the Black Canyon City Trailhead and north of Table Mesa.

    from []Black Canyon National Recreation Trail - BLM Arizona

    the link posted by epicrider goes to the Oregon office of the BLM...

  50. #50
    My other ride is your mom
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    .....I hope it works out.......

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